Re: Fuzzy fonts under 2.2.2?
On 24 Jun 2003 23:31:07 +0200 Soeren Sandmann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The variant that I use is match target=font test qual=any name=size compare=less double14/double /test test qual=any name=size compare=more double8/double /test edit name=antialias mode=assign boolfalse/bool /edit /match Ie. antialias, but only when the size is below 8 or above 14. This is an approximation on what windows does. Windows uses extra information in the fonts about when to antialias that is unfortunately not available though FreeType. There are various other possibilities that look good, includingantialias, but turn off hinting. As you found out, having *both* bytecode interpreter and antialiasing for normal screen-sized fonts is just about the worst thing you can do to your fonts. Thank-you Soeren. This has been an extremely useful thread for me, and I will experiment further. I am especially interested to learn about the evils of combining the bytecode interpreter with antialiasing. I will do some recompiling and experimentation. Regards, Geoff ___ gtk-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
Re: Fuzzy fonts under 2.2.2?
On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 23:31, Soeren Sandmann wrote: Ie. antialias, but only when the size is below 8 or above 14. This is an approximation on what windows does. Windows uses extra information in the fonts about when to antialias that is unfortunately not available though FreeType. Could you give some more info about it? Maybe the guys which maintain freetype could provide this info and pango could use it? There are various other possibilities that look good, including antialias, but turn off hinting. As you found out, having *both* bytecode interpreter and antialiasing for normal screen-sized fonts is just about the worst thing you can do to your fonts. Do you know why bytecode interpreter with antialiasing gives this result? Maybe pango could detect it and disable AA if bytecode interpreter is enabled? Of course the freetype would have to give some info if bytecode interpreter is enabled or not. How it compares to Windows? I think that they use bytecode interpreter and they do antialiasing. Why the effect is different with pango? Regards, Olaf Fraczyk ___ gtk-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
Re: Fuzzy fonts under 2.2.2?
Olaf Frczyk [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: On Tue, 2003-06-24 at 23:31, Soeren Sandmann wrote: Ie. antialias, but only when the size is below 8 or above 14. This is an approximation on what windows does. Windows uses extra information in the fonts about when to antialias that is unfortunately not available though FreeType. Could you give some more info about it? Maybe the guys which maintain freetype could provide this info and pango could use it? TrueType fonts contain a special table that for a given size tells whether the bytescodes should be used and whether the font should be antialiased. The table is called the GASP table, and is described here: http://developer.apple.com/fonts/TTRefMan/RM06/Chap6gasp.html Do you know why bytecode interpreter with antialiasing gives this result? Usually because the bytecode is carefully done to give good bitmaps when you don't antialias. How it compares to Windows? I think that they use bytecode interpreter and they do antialiasing. Why the effect is different with pango? Windows does not antialias at normal screen sizes (with the usual fonts). If you use the fonts.conf file I posted, then you'll get pretty much identical results to windows. You can compare Verdana aliased and antialiased here: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~sandmann/alias.png http://www.daimi.au.dk/~sandmann/antialias.png Both versions used the bytecode interpreter. Søren
Fuzzy fonts under 2.2.2?
Hello, Sorry if this is a really stupid question, but I am puzzled. I just upgraded from gtk+-2.0.9 to 2.2.2. I don't run gnome, but I think I have all necessary libraries. I am running Xfree 4.3 and the icewm WM. I am no expert on fonts. I work mostly in arial, and I immediately noticed that the font seems to look less sharp than it did before I upgraded. The difference was immediately obvious in the newsreader Pan, where I had previously been using arial 12, which now looked bigger and much fuzzier than before. It helps to reduce the size to 11 (which previously would have been too small and is now quite legible), but the poorer quality (to my eye), of the rendering remains. Is there a reason for this? Am I doing something wrong? Thanks, Geoff ___ gtk-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
Re: Fuzzy fonts under 2.2.2?
Hi, Geoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I just upgraded from gtk+-2.0.9 to 2.2.2. I don't run gnome, but I think I have all necessary libraries. I am running Xfree 4.3 and the icewm WM. I am no expert on fonts. I work mostly in arial, and I immediately noticed that the font seems to look less sharp than it did before I upgraded. The difference was immediately obvious in the newsreader Pan, where I had previously been using arial 12, which now looked bigger and much fuzzier than before. It helps to reduce the size to 11 (which previously would have been too small and is now quite legible), but the poorer quality (to my eye), of the rendering remains. Is there a reason for this? Am I doing something wrong? GTK+-2.2 by default uses Xft2 to render antialiased fonts while GTK+-2.0 defaulted to the old-fashioned X11 core fonts. If you really don't like the new font rendering, you can set the environment variable GDK_USE_XFT to 0. But you should be aware that the old server-side font rendering will not stay forever, it is likely not to be supported with future releases of Pango. You can improve the text rendering by using an uptodate version of freetype2. Also, enabling the truetype bytecode interpreter in freetype2 improves the legibility of small fonts. Sven ___ gtk-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
Re: Fuzzy fonts under 2.2.2?
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 17:13:48 +0200 Sven Neumann [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip GTK+-2.2 by default uses Xft2 to render antialiased fonts while GTK+-2.0 defaulted to the old-fashioned X11 core fonts. If you really don't like the new font rendering, you can set the environment variable GDK_USE_XFT to 0. But you should be aware that the old server-side font rendering will not stay forever, it is likely not to be supported with future releases of Pango. You can improve the text rendering by using an uptodate version of freetype2. Also, enabling the truetype bytecode interpreter in freetype2 improves the legibility of small fonts. Thank-you very much for that Sven. I already have freetype 2.1.4 (which seems to be current), with the bytecode interpreter enabled. I set GDK_USE_XFT=0 and (as you anticipated), everything went back to normal, so at least I know that I can use that for the time being. It is a pain that this won't last because I strongly prefer the look and feel of GTK+ applications to (eg) Qt ones. Personal preferences vary so much. If my system is set up properly (I am going to re-ckeck everything), then, from my perspective, I simply can't imagine how anyone could find the new rendering to be any kind of improvement over the old one. Thanks again, Geoff ___ gtk-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
Re: Fuzzy fonts under 2.2.2?
On 24 Jun 2003 10:14:15 -0500 edscott wilson garcia [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip The fuzzy fonts are supposed to look better, called antialised. Pango is doing the font rendering so you can probably eliminate them by configuring or recompiling pango. Thanks for that edscott. As you will see from my reply to Sven, setting GDK_USE_XFT=0 fixes the problem for the time being. If the antialiasing is responsible for what I see, then I hate it. I will have a look at the pango options. Regards, Geoff ___ gtk-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
Re: Fuzzy fonts under 2.2.2?
Geoff on June 24, 2003 wrote: Thank-you very much for that Sven. I already have freetype 2.1.4 (which seems to be current), with the bytecode interpreter enabled. I set GDK_USE_XFT=0 and (as you anticipated), everything went back to normal, so at least I know that I can use that for the time being. It is a pain that this won't last because I strongly prefer the look and feel of GTK+ applications to (eg) Qt ones. Hi Geoff, If you'd like to use Xft2 (which I suppose you'll have to in 2.4), but don't want anti-aliased fonts, you can have Xft2 turn off the antialiasing by following the instructions at http://www.xfree86.org/~dawes/4.3.0/fonts2.html#4 Or, to summarize what you'll need, edit your /etc/fonts/fonts.conf file, and before the final /fontconfig line, insert these lines: match target=font edit name=antialias mode=assign boolfalse/bool /edit /match - Jesse ___ gtk-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
Re: Fuzzy fonts under 2.2.2?
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 12:53:23 -0400 Jesse Pavel [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: If you'd like to use Xft2 (which I suppose you'll have to in 2.4), but don't want anti-aliased fonts, you can have Xft2 turn off the antialiasing by following the instructions at http://www.xfree86.org/~dawes/4.3.0/fonts2.html#4 Or, to summarize what you'll need, edit your /etc/fonts/fonts.conf file, and before the final /fontconfig line, insert these lines: match target=font edit name=antialias mode=assign boolfalse/bool /edit /match Brilliant!! Thank-you very much, that works perfectly. Geoff ___ gtk-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
Re: Fuzzy fonts under 2.2.2?
On Tue, Jun 24, 2003 at 12:53:23PM -0400, Jesse Pavel wrote: If you'd like to use Xft2 (which I suppose you'll have to in 2.4), but don't want anti-aliased fonts, you can have Xft2 turn off the antialiasing by following the instructions at http://www.xfree86.org/~dawes/4.3.0/fonts2.html#4 Or, to summarize what you'll need, edit your /etc/fonts/fonts.conf file, and before the final /fontconfig line, insert these lines: match target=font edit name=antialias mode=assign boolfalse/bool /edit /match With GNOME 2.2 you could also just go to Preferences-Fonts and disable AA in there. Havoc ___ gtk-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
Re: Fuzzy fonts under 2.2.2?
On Tue, 24 Jun 2003 15:09:24 -0400 Havoc Pennington [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: snip With GNOME 2.2 you could also just go to Preferences-Fonts and disable AA in there. I will bear that in mind. Sometimes I miss the convenience of a desktop - and I run more gnome-apps than anythign else, but (for the moment at least), I continue to prefer icewm and a fairly mixed environment. Regards, Geoff ___ gtk-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
Re: Fuzzy fonts under 2.2.2?
Geoff [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Thanks for that edscott. As you will see from my reply to Sven, setting GDK_USE_XFT=0 fixes the problem for the time being. If the antialiasing is responsible for what I see, then I hate it. I will have a look at the pango options. The variant that I use is match target=font test qual=any name=size compare=less double14/double /test test qual=any name=size compare=more double8/double /test edit name=antialias mode=assign boolfalse/bool /edit /match Ie. antialias, but only when the size is below 8 or above 14. This is an approximation on what windows does. Windows uses extra information in the fonts about when to antialias that is unfortunately not available though FreeType. There are various other possibilities that look good, including antialias, but turn off hinting. As you found out, having *both* bytecode interpreter and antialiasing for normal screen-sized fonts is just about the worst thing you can do to your fonts. ___ gtk-list mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/gtk-list
