Re: [guadec-list] GUADEC 2017: Length and Format

[Allan Day]

OK, let's try and get it right this time! :)

I'm not particularly pushing the 2 core day option, but here's an
experiment to show what it could look like:

Day 1

9.45-10.00 Opening
10.00-10.40 Talks ×2
10.45-11.25 Talks ×2
11.25-11.40 Coffee break
11.40-12.20 Keynote
12.20-14.00 Lunch
14.00-14.40 Talks ×2
14.45-15.25 Talks ×2
15.25-15.40 Coffee break
15.40-16.05 Short talks ×2
16.10-16.35 Short talks ×2
16.40-17.05 Short talks ×2
17.05-18.30 Intern's lightning talks
Day 2

10.00-10.40 Talks ×2
10.45-11.25 Talks ×2
11.25-11.40 Coffee break
11.40-12.20 Talks ×2
12.20-14.00 Lunch
14.00-14.25 Short talks ×2
14.30-14.55 Short talks ×2
15.00-15.45 Team reports
15.45-16.00 Group photo
16.00-17.00 AGM
17.00-18.30 Lightning talks and closing

This schedule has a total of 24 talks [1]. It includes the standard things
you'd expect at GUADEC: two sets of lightning talks, team reports and the
AGM. One difference is that it only has one keynote.

The number of talks over the past 3 GUADECs have been 34, 24 and 34, so the
number of talks is less than average but not the fewest we've ever had.

The central finding of this experiment: you could do two days of talks, but
it would require losing a keynote, slightly tight timings for breaks and
fewer talks certainly than this year. These aren't necessarily bad things
of course, and everything is open to adjustment: you could have another
keynote and fewer talks, reduce the length of more talks to fit more in,
etc etc

Allan

[1] That's 14 "long" talks of 40 minutes (including questions) and 10
"short" talks of 25 minutes (also including questions). These lengths are a
bit shorter than has been standard at GUADEC (which I feel was always too
long) but are roughly equivalent to this year's GUADEC which used both 25
minute and 45 minute talks.
___
guadec-list mailing list
guadec-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list

Re: [guadec-list] GUADEC 2017: Length and Format

[Allan Day]

Apologies, I sent that message by accident - please ignore and I'll resend.

Allan

On Tue, Sep 6, 2016 at 12:43 AM, Allan Day  wrote:

> Hi all,
>
> I'm not particularly pushing the 2 core day option, but here's an
> experiment to show what it could look like:
>
> Day 1
>
> 9.45-10.00 Opening
> 10.00-10.40 Talks ×2
> 10.45-11.25 Talks ×2
> 11.25-11.40 Coffee break
> 11.40-12.20 Keynote
> 12.20-14.00 Lunch
> 14.00-14.40 Talks ×2
> 14.45-15.25 Talks ×2
> 15.25-15.40 Coffee break
> 15.40-16.00 Short talks ×2
> 16.05-16.25 Short talks ×2
> 16.30-16.55 Short talks ×2
> 17.00-18.30 Intern's lightning talks
> Day 2
> 10.00-10.40 Talks ×2
> 10.45-11.25 Talks ×2
> 11.25-11.40 Coffee break
> 11.40-12.20 Keynote
> 12.20-14.00 Lunch
> 14.45-15.30 Team reports
> 15.30-16.00 Group photo
> 16.00-17.00 AGM
> 17.00-18.30 Lightning talks and closing
>
> This gives 18 talks (12 long of 40 minutes and 6 short of 20 minutes), 2
> keynotes, 1.40 for lunch and 15 minutes for coffee breaks. For reference,
> the number of talks over the past 3 GUADECs have been 34, 24 and 34. This
> year the talks were mostly 30 minutes long (20% were 45 minutes long). In
> the past all talks were 45 minutes in length.
>
> Of course, the number of talks could be increased by:
>
> 1. Reducing the length of the long talks
> 2. Removing one or both keynotes.
> 3. Removing the final lighting talk session.
>
> I'm personally against 3 but would be open to 1 and perhaps removing 1
> keynote.
>
> Day 1
>
> 9.45-10.00 Opening
> 10.00-10.30 Talks ×2
> 10.35-11.05 Talks ×2
> 11.10-11.40   Talks ×2
> 11.40-11.55 Coffee break
> 11.55-12.35 Keynote
> 12.35-14.00 Lunch
> 14.00-14.30 Talks ×2
> 14.35-15.05 Talks ×2
> 15.05-15.20 Coffee break
> 15.20-15.40 Short talks ×2
> 15.45-16.05 Short talks ×2
> 16.05-16.25 Short talks ×2
> 16.30-16.50 Short talks ×2
> 16.50-18.20 Intern's lightning talks
> Day 2
> 10.00-10.30 Talks ×2
> 10.35-11.05 Talks ×2
> 11.10-11.40   Talks ×2
> 11.40-11.55 Coffee break
> 11.55-12.35 Talks ×2
> 12.35-14.00 Lunch
> 14.45-15.30 Team reports
> 15.30-16.00 Group photo
> 16.00-17.00 AGM
> 17.00-18.30 Lightning talks and closing
>
>
>
> Without keynotes you'd get 22 or even 26 talks, if some of the were short
> ones.
>
> Allan
>
___
guadec-list mailing list
guadec-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list

Re: [guadec-list] GUADEC 2017: Length and Format

[Allan Day]

Hi all,

I'm not particularly pushing the 2 core day option, but here's an
experiment to show what it could look like:

Day 1

9.45-10.00 Opening
10.00-10.40 Talks ×2
10.45-11.25 Talks ×2
11.25-11.40 Coffee break
11.40-12.20 Keynote
12.20-14.00 Lunch
14.00-14.40 Talks ×2
14.45-15.25 Talks ×2
15.25-15.40 Coffee break
15.40-16.00 Short talks ×2
16.05-16.25 Short talks ×2
16.30-16.55 Short talks ×2
17.00-18.30 Intern's lightning talks
Day 2
10.00-10.40 Talks ×2
10.45-11.25 Talks ×2
11.25-11.40 Coffee break
11.40-12.20 Keynote
12.20-14.00 Lunch
14.45-15.30 Team reports
15.30-16.00 Group photo
16.00-17.00 AGM
17.00-18.30 Lightning talks and closing

This gives 18 talks (12 long of 40 minutes and 6 short of 20 minutes), 2
keynotes, 1.40 for lunch and 15 minutes for coffee breaks. For reference,
the number of talks over the past 3 GUADECs have been 34, 24 and 34. This
year the talks were mostly 30 minutes long (20% were 45 minutes long). In
the past all talks were 45 minutes in length.

Of course, the number of talks could be increased by:

1. Reducing the length of the long talks
2. Removing one or both keynotes.
3. Removing the final lighting talk session.

I'm personally against 3 but would be open to 1 and perhaps removing 1
keynote.

Day 1

9.45-10.00 Opening
10.00-10.30 Talks ×2
10.35-11.05 Talks ×2
11.10-11.40   Talks ×2
11.40-11.55 Coffee break
11.55-12.35 Keynote
12.35-14.00 Lunch
14.00-14.30 Talks ×2
14.35-15.05 Talks ×2
15.05-15.20 Coffee break
15.20-15.40 Short talks ×2
15.45-16.05 Short talks ×2
16.05-16.25 Short talks ×2
16.30-16.50 Short talks ×2
16.50-18.20 Intern's lightning talks
Day 2
10.00-10.30 Talks ×2
10.35-11.05 Talks ×2
11.10-11.40   Talks ×2
11.40-11.55 Coffee break
11.55-12.35 Talks ×2
12.35-14.00 Lunch
14.45-15.30 Team reports
15.30-16.00 Group photo
16.00-17.00 AGM
17.00-18.30 Lightning talks and closing



Without keynotes you'd get 22 or even 26 talks, if some of the were short
ones.

Allan
___
guadec-list mailing list
guadec-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list

Re: [guadec-list] GUADEC 2017: Length and Format

[Benjamin Berg]

Hi,

a few comments.

I don't have a strong opinion on the two vs. three core days. My guess
is that two days could work for GUADEC as it has happened in the last
couple of years.

For the workshops my suggestion is to either market them more
aggressively to third parties. They will be poorly visited this year,
so my guess is that the experiment in the current form didn't quite
work.
Personally I placed them on the day before so that:
 * Attendees
wouldn't be blocked from BoFs
 * Newcomers have it as a way to be
introduced to the community
Remember that the workshops as we do them
this year are training sessions.


Structuring the BoF days a bit more might work and we could even try some stuff 
this year, if anyone is up to organize it. There is a lecture hall very close 
by which the department may open for us.

It doesn't feel to me like it will make a large difference for long term 
community members though because the sessions are too independent of each other.


With regard to length, it really doesn't make much of a difference from
an organizational point of view. Most tasks require a fixed effort
which is exactly the same whether it is only a single day or four days.

I can see that it saves money for rentals/accommodation, at the same
time if there are proper hacking sessions then the cost to fly people
in drops in relation to the work that will happen.


In general, I would suggest co-hosting or co-locating GUADEC with
another conference of a similar size (either Akademy or anything else
really). This would give both conferences a larger visibility and would
probably attract more attendees who wouldn't come to either event. And
a wider audience of attendees/speakers means new ideas coming into the
GNOME community.

My guess it is too late for this for GUADEC 2017, but personally I
would love to see a Desktop Summit again or co-locating with e.g.
GStreamer, systemd.conf, or anything else really.

Benjamin


On Di, 2016-07-26 at 10:04 +0100, Allan Day wrote:
> Hi all,
> 
> Yes, you heard me right: 2017. :)
> 
> The location of next year's conference has yet to be officially
> decided,
> but with only one bid on the table and a requirement to book the
> venue
> soon, we are being forced into some forward planning.
> 
> Last November there was an interesting discussion about the length of
> GUADEC [1]. I would like to pick that up again and make a tentative
> proposal for GUADEC 2017. This is as follows:
> 
>    - Switch to two days of talks and two days of "hack days".
>    - Advertise the conference as a four day event. The fact that the
> first
>    two days are talks would be a minor footnote only; when people say
> they
>    want to come, we give them the dates for the four days.
>    - Maximize the inclusiveness and activity of the hack days. There
> are
>    lots of possibilities here, including:
>    - Holding the workshops during the hack days rather than the day
> before
>   the conference.
>   - Making sure that there's space for people to hack and talk.
>   - Having some kind of led session on the morning of the first
> hack
>   day, which will help people to form groups to work on the same
> things.
>   - Having a space where people can do impromptu lighting talks.
>   - Setting up areas for particular kinds of activity, like an
> "apps
>   zone" or an "engagement zone".
>   - Providing spaces where people can hold meetings and BoFs
> without
>   needing to book or plan them in advance.
>   - Having wrap-up sessions at the end of each day, where groups
> can
>   feed back what they have done that day.
> 
> The key goals/advantages of this proposal are:
> 
>    - Maximise interaction between attendees: give them more time to
> talk
>    and hold discussions.
>    - Be more inclusive. One of the problems of the current format is
> that
>    there's a lot of ambiguity: there are two sets of dates, newcomers
> don't
>    really know whether the BoF days are for them, or how to get
> involved. A
>    primary goal therefore is to encourage people to stay for the full
> event
>    and to provide opportunities for them to fully participate
> throughout.
>    - Get more stuff done, and give the conference more of a hackfest
> feel.
>    - Reduce costs, reduce stress. Fewer days would place less of a
> demand
>    on the local team. It would also reduce the cost of venue hire.
> 
> The main disadvantage of this approach is that it gives less time for
> talks. After the discussion last time around, I'm confident that we
> could
> have around 22 talks. However, we'd lose at least one keynote and
> we'd lose
> the lightning talks (we'd keen the interns lightning talks). There
> are
> possibilities for juggling things a little, of course: we could lose
> all
> the keynotes and reinstate the lightning talks, or we could introduce
> a
> mixture of short and long talk slots.
> 
> Any thoughts or opinions? We might not have long to book the venue
> (following 

Re: [guadec-list] GUADEC 2017: Length and Format

[Allan Day]

Ekaterina Gerasimova  wrote:
...
>
> >> Four days (2 + 2) sounds too short to me.
>
> I would be happy to see a 2 day conference if there are 3 tracks.
>
...

To ensure a certain number of talks? How many do you think are necessary?

Allan
___
guadec-list mailing list
guadec-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list

Re: [guadec-list] GUADEC 2017: Length and Format

[Ekaterina Gerasimova]

On 27 July 2016 at 10:28, Allan Day  wrote:
> Debarshi Ray  wrote:
> ...
>>
>> >- Switch to two days of talks and two days of "hack days".
>> >- Advertise the conference as a four day event. The fact that the
>> > first
>> >two days are talks would be a minor footnote only; when people say
>> > they
>> >want to come, we give them the dates for the four days.
>>
>> Four days (2 + 2) sounds too short to me.

I would be happy to see a 2 day conference if there are 3 tracks. I do
think that the BoFs need 3 days or we need more rooms than we
currently have. The benefit of longer BoF days is that teams can work
hackfests in with GUADEC rather than have a separate event.
Additionally, fewer BoFs clash if slots are available over more days.

>> While a 8 day conference with 4 days of BoFs can be considered too
>> much, are we really struggling to fill up the slots over a 6 day (3 +
>> 3) schedule?
>
>
> Not that I'm aware of.
>
>>
>> Last time this was discussed, there was a concern about the lack of
>> good quality talk submissions. Did we explore the possibility of
>> having people from Elementary and Cinnamon attend GUADEC? Why do we
>> think that the quality of talk submissions have gone down? How about a
>> 5 day conference?
>
>
> I'm not particularly concerned about talk quality and that's not what's
> motivating this proposal.
>
>> I do like the idea of advertising the conference as one unit and
>> de-emphasizing the split between the core and BoF days. I am concerned
>> that going from 6 to 4 days would leave us with precious little time
>> for hallway and social interactions between people who barely meet
>> once every year.
>
>
> In my experience most people only attend for 3 or 4 days. One aspect of the
> proposal is to align the conference format with this pattern of attendance.
> Another aspect is to increase the amount of hallway time for those attendees
> who only attend for 3 or 4 days, since it will mean that they will spend a
> smaller proportion of their time sitting in talks.

Most sponsored attendees are coming for 6 days this year, with a few
people only able to make the weekend or weekend +1/2 days because of
work commitments. I think it's more important to make sure that the
core days do take place over the weekend.

> A possible modification to the proposal would be to tack on an additional
> "unconference" day at the end, making it 4+1 days. The unconference day
> would have minimal organisation, would be presented as being optional, and
> would primarily be for those who want to hang around a bit longer and hack.
>
> Thanks for the feedback, Debarshi!
>
> Allan
>
> ___
> guadec-list mailing list
> guadec-list@gnome.org
> https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list
>
___
guadec-list mailing list
guadec-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list

Re: [guadec-list] GUADEC 2017: Length and Format

[Allan Day]

Debarshi Ray  wrote:
...

> >- Switch to two days of talks and two days of "hack days".
> >- Advertise the conference as a four day event. The fact that the
> first
> >two days are talks would be a minor footnote only; when people say
> they
> >want to come, we give them the dates for the four days.
>
> Four days (2 + 2) sounds too short to me.

...

> While a 8 day conference with 4 days of BoFs can be considered too
> much, are we really struggling to fill up the slots over a 6 day (3 +
> 3) schedule?
>

Not that I'm aware of.


> Last time this was discussed, there was a concern about the lack of
> good quality talk submissions. Did we explore the possibility of
> having people from Elementary and Cinnamon attend GUADEC? Why do we
> think that the quality of talk submissions have gone down? How about a
> 5 day conference?
>

I'm not particularly concerned about talk quality and that's not what's
motivating this proposal.

I do like the idea of advertising the conference as one unit and
> de-emphasizing the split between the core and BoF days. I am concerned
> that going from 6 to 4 days would leave us with precious little time
> for hallway and social interactions between people who barely meet
> once every year.
>

In my experience most people only attend for 3 or 4 days. One aspect of the
proposal is to align the conference format with this pattern of attendance.
Another aspect is to increase the amount of hallway time for those
attendees who only attend for 3 or 4 days, since it will mean that they
will spend a smaller proportion of their time sitting in talks.

A possible modification to the proposal would be to tack on an additional
"unconference" day at the end, making it 4+1 days. The unconference day
would have minimal organisation, would be presented as being optional, and
would primarily be for those who want to hang around a bit longer and hack.

Thanks for the feedback, Debarshi!

Allan
___
guadec-list mailing list
guadec-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list

Re: [guadec-list] GUADEC 2017: Length and Format

[Debarshi Ray]

Hey,

On Tue, Jul 26, 2016 at 10:04:35AM +0100, Allan Day wrote:
>- Switch to two days of talks and two days of "hack days".
>- Advertise the conference as a four day event. The fact that the first
>two days are talks would be a minor footnote only; when people say they
>want to come, we give them the dates for the four days.

Four days (2 + 2) sounds too short to me.

In recent times we have had:
 * 2012: 7 days (4 + 3)
 * 2013: 8 days (4 + 4)
 * 2014: 7 days (4 + 3)
 * 2015: 6 days (3 + 3)
 * 2016: 6 days (3 + 3)

While a 8 day conference with 4 days of BoFs can be considered too
much, are we really struggling to fill up the slots over a 6 day (3 +
3) schedule?

Last time this was discussed, there was a concern about the lack of
good quality talk submissions. Did we explore the possibility of
having people from Elementary and Cinnamon attend GUADEC? Why do we
think that the quality of talk submissions have gone down? How about a
5 day conference?

I do like the idea of advertising the conference as one unit and
de-emphasizing the split between the core and BoF days. I am concerned
that going from 6 to 4 days would leave us with precious little time
for hallway and social interactions between people who barely meet
once every year.

Cheers,
Rishi

pgpwbymWAagoV.pgp
Description: PGP signature
___
guadec-list mailing list
guadec-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list

[guadec-list] GUADEC 2017: Length and Format

[Allan Day]

Hi all,

Yes, you heard me right: 2017. :)

The location of next year's conference has yet to be officially decided,
but with only one bid on the table and a requirement to book the venue
soon, we are being forced into some forward planning.

Last November there was an interesting discussion about the length of
GUADEC [1]. I would like to pick that up again and make a tentative
proposal for GUADEC 2017. This is as follows:

   - Switch to two days of talks and two days of "hack days".
   - Advertise the conference as a four day event. The fact that the first
   two days are talks would be a minor footnote only; when people say they
   want to come, we give them the dates for the four days.
   - Maximize the inclusiveness and activity of the hack days. There are
   lots of possibilities here, including:
   - Holding the workshops during the hack days rather than the day before
  the conference.
  - Making sure that there's space for people to hack and talk.
  - Having some kind of led session on the morning of the first hack
  day, which will help people to form groups to work on the same things.
  - Having a space where people can do impromptu lighting talks.
  - Setting up areas for particular kinds of activity, like an "apps
  zone" or an "engagement zone".
  - Providing spaces where people can hold meetings and BoFs without
  needing to book or plan them in advance.
  - Having wrap-up sessions at the end of each day, where groups can
  feed back what they have done that day.

The key goals/advantages of this proposal are:

   - Maximise interaction between attendees: give them more time to talk
   and hold discussions.
   - Be more inclusive. One of the problems of the current format is that
   there's a lot of ambiguity: there are two sets of dates, newcomers don't
   really know whether the BoF days are for them, or how to get involved. A
   primary goal therefore is to encourage people to stay for the full event
   and to provide opportunities for them to fully participate throughout.
   - Get more stuff done, and give the conference more of a hackfest feel.
   - Reduce costs, reduce stress. Fewer days would place less of a demand
   on the local team. It would also reduce the cost of venue hire.

The main disadvantage of this approach is that it gives less time for
talks. After the discussion last time around, I'm confident that we could
have around 22 talks. However, we'd lose at least one keynote and we'd lose
the lightning talks (we'd keen the interns lightning talks). There are
possibilities for juggling things a little, of course: we could lose all
the keynotes and reinstate the lightning talks, or we could introduce a
mixture of short and long talk slots.

Any thoughts or opinions? We might not have long to book the venue
(following the Board's final decision about where the conference will be
held), so it would be good to have reactions sooner rather than later.

Thanks,

Allan

[1] https://mail.gnome.org/archives/guadec-list/2015-November/msg1.html
___
guadec-list mailing list
guadec-list@gnome.org
https://mail.gnome.org/mailman/listinfo/guadec-list