Re: NetworkManager instead of Wicd in ‘%desktop-services’?

2017-07-30 Thread Kei Kebreau 
l...@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:

> Hello Guix!
>
> Shouldn’t we replace Wicd with NetworkManager in ‘%desktop-services’?
>
> I’ve given it a try on a GuixSD GNOME installation and it appears to
> work well, and it’s obviously well-integrated with GNOME, whereas Wicd
> is a bit hidden (one has to know what to look for) and “foreign.”
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Now, as someone who doesn’t use GNOME, I wonder if NM would work well
> for me.  Last time I tried it’s CLI was too low-level to be usable, and
> I don’t remember seeing a curses interface.  Suggestions?
>
> Thanks,
> Ludo’.

I'm in favor of the change as long as NetworkManager's equivalents to
wicd-gtk and wicd-curses are installed by default. Mark brought up
nmtui; that sounds like something we should enable. Also, it would be
nice to have notifications work (if they don't already) when using
nm-applet. I hear that this depends on xfce4-notifyd?


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Re: 01/01: gnu: wxmaxima: Update to 17.05.0.

2017-07-30 Thread Kei Kebreau 
Mark H Weaver  writes:

> Kei Kebreau  writes:
>
>> Mark H Weaver  writes:
>>
>>> k...@openmailbox.org (Kei Kebreau) writes:
>>>
 @@ -2172,6 +2176,10 @@ point numbers.")
 ("shared-mime-info" ,shared-mime-info)))
  (arguments
   `(#:phases (modify-phases %standard-phases
 +  (add-before
 +   'configure 'autoconf
 +   (lambda _
 + (zero? (system* "./bootstrap"
>>>
>>> In general, autoconf-style phases like this should be put after the
>>> 'unpack' phase, not before the 'configure' phase.  The reason is that on
>>> some platforms (e.g. mips64el-linux), the 'patch-usr-bin-file' phase
>>> needs to be able to operate on the generated configure script.
>>>
>>> When you move the phase earlier, you may then find that you need to
>>> launch the 'bootstrap' script differently, because its shebang will not
>>> be correct.  That's because it will now be run before the
>>> 'patch-source-shebangs' phase.
>>>
>>> So, the way we normally do this is to run something like:
>>>
>>>   (zero? (system* "sh" "bootstrap"))
>>>
>>> Grepping for "add-before 'configure" reveals that there are now a rather
>>> large number of instances of this problem.  Oh well.
>>>
>>>Mark
>>
>> I see. Thank you for the correction.
>>
>> Do you consider it worth going through the package code and patching
>> this problem specifically or should it be corrected gradually while
>> making other changes?
>
> If you (or anyone else) is willing to work on this, I think it would be
> quite helpful to go through and fix some or all of these problems
> proactively.  It's quite common for people to look at existing packages
> for examples of how things should be done, so the presence of these
> mistakes in our tree will spawn new instances of the same mistake until
> they are eradicated :)
>
> Two things to keep in mind:
>
> * If changing a package would trigger a large number of rebuilds, the
>   change should be made on 'core-updates' instead.
>
> * For each change on 'master', we should make sure the package still
>   builds successfully before pushing it.  That should be enough testing
>   for kind of change.
>
>  Thanks!
>Mark

I'm leaving this message here to let everyone on the list know that this
patch is being worked on. :-)


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core-updates: biber

2017-07-30 Thread Leo Famulari 
On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 04:23:43PM -0400, Leo Famulari wrote:
> Ricardo added biber-2.5 in 253cdd6c1464c944be2418ee9161f5f5b57e0eee.
> Ricardo, can you check if it's still necessary?

I tried to find out myself, but the location of the relevant information
is not documented in our packaging.

> > Another option might be to mass-escape left braces in the Biber code,
> > but that’s probably not that easy…
> 
> I'll try it. The upstream changes suggest it might not be that hard.

After looking at the relevant changes in biber, I think the whole
compatibility situation is very brittle. The biber test suite hard-codes
hashes that are generated by 3rd party tools, but those tools' output
changes periodically. Somebody who uses biber needs to figure out what
should be done with biber-2.5 and test it.


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Re: revert perl-5.26.0 update?

2017-07-30 Thread Leo Famulari 
On Fri, Jul 28, 2017 at 11:26:22PM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> Woow, impressive patch set!  At first sight the 26 patches look
> reasonable to me, so I would suggest pushing them, along with the
> biber-next@2.7 update you mentioned.

Alright, I'll clean it up and push today.

> As for biber itself, perhaps the best option is to make biber-next the
> new biber?  I don’t use it so I can’t really tell whether there’d be
> undesirable consequences.

Ricardo added biber-2.5 in 253cdd6c1464c944be2418ee9161f5f5b57e0eee.
Ricardo, can you check if it's still necessary?

> Another option might be to mass-escape left braces in the Biber code,
> but that’s probably not that easy…

I'll try it. The upstream changes suggest it might not be that hard.

> Anyway, this patch series probably closes the main blocker for
> core-updates no?

AFAIK, but I'm only testing x86_64-linux, and I'm not running a
graphical system.


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Re: How to add KDE desktop service?

2017-07-30 Thread Danny Milosavljevic 
Hi Hartmut,

On Sun, 30 Jul 2017 21:38:30 +0200
Hartmut Goebel  wrote:

>I thing it's time to (at least try to) add a KDE desktop service to Guix

> Now I wonder, how to do this. Taking gnome-desktop-service as a
> template, I can spot only "gnome-settings-daemon" as being different to
> xfce-desktop-service. So where do I tell the service which
> display-manager to use, or which components to install and start.

Hmmm not sure what exactly "components" means.  Are those dbus services?

I'm not a KDE user so I have no idea what kind of runtime infrastructure KDE 
requires.

Also, the display manager is the part which allows users to login, right? 
That's (supposed to be) independent of the desktop environment in use.

Check out gnu/services/desktop.scm elogind-service-type for a more involved 
service.

It uses the service extension mechanism to extend other services.

You might want to use that mechanism to extend dbus-root-service-type in 
kde-service-type in order to add dbus kde stuff (if any; no idea).  You can 
also extend shepherd-root-service-type in order to add shepherd services.

The display manage I use is managed by slim-service-type (see also 
%desktop-services where it defaults to slim).  It looks for desktops that it 
can start in /run/current-system/profile/share/xsessions .  If you put a KDE 
package which provides desktop files in share/xsessions to your /etc/config.scm 
"operating-system" "packages" form, a new entry will show up in SLIM (press F1 
key).

In the case of xfce, xfce-service-configuration refers to the package "xfce" by 
default.  This package does an union-build of many other packages, including 
xfce4-session, the latter of which is the one installing the desktop file into 
/run/current-system/profile/share/xsessions .

How to add KDE desktop service?

2017-07-30 Thread Hartmut Goebel 
Hi,

I thing it's time to (at least try to) add a KDE desktop service to
guix. All major components should be available and if not this will show
us what is missing.

Now I wonder, how to do this. Taking gnome-desktop-service as a
template, I can spot only "gnome-settings-daemon" as being different to
xfce-desktop-service. So where do I tell the service which
display-manager to use, or which components to install and start.

Any hints?

-- 
Regards
Hartmut Goebel

| Hartmut Goebel  | h.goe...@crazy-compilers.com   |
| www.crazy-compilers.com | compilers which you thought are impossible |

Re: NetworkManager instead of Wicd in ???%desktop-services????

2017-07-30 Thread ng0 
Pjotr Prins transcribed 0.9K bytes:
> On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 05:18:59PM +0200, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
> > Ludovic Court??s writes:
> > 
> > > Now, as someone who doesn???t use GNOME, I wonder if NM would work well
> > > for me.  Last time I tried it???s CLI was too low-level to be usable, and
> > > I don???t remember seeing a curses interface.  Suggestions?
> > 
> > I would welcome some improvement here, or insight on my part.  Since I
> > moved away from desktop environments, wicd has not not worked for me and
> > I have been using ifconfig, wpa_supplicant and dhclient manually.  That
> > has removed my dependency on something like NM and it's apparent
> > inherent magic...but it's rather painful.
> 
> I actually prefer doing it this way. wpa_supplicant with multiple
> config files is the way when you travel a lot. No confusion between
> phone tethering, eduroam and multiple wifi networks. Until these NM
> tools start offering profiles... And general connecting is faster too.
> 
> Pj.

But we're discussing desktop-environments here, not minimal stripped
down WMs and their use cases.
Do you suggest we tell people to just use the CLI or "add one of the
following choices of network connectivity tools and their services"?
That won't work out very well in practice.
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Re: NetworkManager instead of Wicd in ???%desktop-services????

2017-07-30 Thread Pjotr Prins 
On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 05:18:59PM +0200, Jan Nieuwenhuizen wrote:
> Ludovic Court??s writes:
> 
> > Now, as someone who doesn???t use GNOME, I wonder if NM would work well
> > for me.  Last time I tried it???s CLI was too low-level to be usable, and
> > I don???t remember seeing a curses interface.  Suggestions?
> 
> I would welcome some improvement here, or insight on my part.  Since I
> moved away from desktop environments, wicd has not not worked for me and
> I have been using ifconfig, wpa_supplicant and dhclient manually.  That
> has removed my dependency on something like NM and it's apparent
> inherent magic...but it's rather painful.

I actually prefer doing it this way. wpa_supplicant with multiple
config files is the way when you travel a lot. No confusion between
phone tethering, eduroam and multiple wifi networks. Until these NM
tools start offering profiles... And general connecting is faster too.

Pj.

Re: NetworkManager instead of Wicd in ‘%desktop-services’?

2017-07-30 Thread Efraim Flashner 
On Sun, Jul 30, 2017 at 04:50:58PM +0200, Ludovic Courtès wrote:
> Hello Guix!
> 
> Shouldn’t we replace Wicd with NetworkManager in ‘%desktop-services’?
> 
> I’ve given it a try on a GuixSD GNOME installation and it appears to
> work well, and it’s obviously well-integrated with GNOME, whereas Wicd
> is a bit hidden (one has to know what to look for) and “foreign.”
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Now, as someone who doesn’t use GNOME, I wonder if NM would work well
> for me.  Last time I tried it’s CLI was too low-level to be usable, and
> I don’t remember seeing a curses interface.  Suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ludo’.
> 

For its integration with gnome to me it makes sense to have our gnome
desktop use network manager. I'm currently using connman on my debian
system. I'm not sure I'd really recommend it, but I've found it to be
easier to use than raw command line ifconfig and dhclient.

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Re: NetworkManager instead of Wicd in ‘%desktop-services’?

2017-07-30 Thread Mark H Weaver 
l...@gnu.org (Ludovic Courtès) writes:

> Shouldn’t we replace Wicd with NetworkManager in ‘%desktop-services’?
>
> I’ve given it a try on a GuixSD GNOME installation and it appears to
> work well, and it’s obviously well-integrated with GNOME, whereas Wicd
> is a bit hidden (one has to know what to look for) and “foreign.”
>
> Thoughts?

I've been using Network Manager with GNOME for several months at least,
and generally I find it works very well, and reconnects much more
quickly than wicd.

However, there is one annoying bug: every time I reboot the system, the
first 1-3 times it connects to the network, name lookups do not work.  I
always have to manually ask Network Manager to disconnect, and then
reconnect.  Sometimes I have to do this two or three times before name
lookups work.  After I've done this, it works perfectly until the next
reboot.

I looked into this a bit, but haven't yet found the cause.  When name
lookups are failing, /etc/resolv.conf exists and is correctly
configured.  I've tried restarting 'nscd', but it doesn't help.

One caveat: for some time now I've only tested Network Manager with
wired networks.  I've recently been unable to use wireless, because I
had to replace the motherboard in my Thinkpad X200, and haven't yet
gotten around to getting the clip I need to reflash Libreboot.  The
proprietary BIOS refuses to boot with the Atheros wireless card
installed, so I had to remove the card for now.

> Now, as someone who doesn’t use GNOME, I wonder if NM would work well
> for me.  Last time I tried it’s CLI was too low-level to be usable, and
> I don’t remember seeing a curses interface.  Suggestions?

There is a curses interface included with Network Manager.  It's called
'nmtui'.  It's not getting built because it depends on 'newt', which is
not an input to our Network Manager package.

  Mark

Re: NetworkManager instead of Wicd in ‘%desktop-services’?

2017-07-30 Thread Jan Nieuwenhuizen 
Ludovic Courtès writes:

> Now, as someone who doesn’t use GNOME, I wonder if NM would work well
> for me.  Last time I tried it’s CLI was too low-level to be usable, and
> I don’t remember seeing a curses interface.  Suggestions?

I would welcome some improvement here, or insight on my part.  Since I
moved away from desktop environments, wicd has not not worked for me and
I have been using ifconfig, wpa_supplicant and dhclient manually.  That
has removed my dependency on something like NM and it's apparent
inherent magic...but it's rather painful.

Seems like I don't have a concrete suggestion here, just a feeble wish
to have networking as simple and crisply declaritively configurable as
the rest of GuixSD.

janneke

-- 
Jan Nieuwenhuizen  | GNU LilyPond http://lilypond.org
Freelance IT http://JoyofSource.com | Avatar® http://AvatarAcademy.com

Re: NetworkManager instead of Wicd in ‘%desktop-services’?

2017-07-30 Thread ng0 
Ludovic Courtès transcribed 0.6K bytes:
> Hello Guix!
> 
> Shouldn’t we replace Wicd with NetworkManager in ‘%desktop-services’?
> 
> I’ve given it a try on a GuixSD GNOME installation and it appears to
> work well, and it’s obviously well-integrated with GNOME, whereas Wicd
> is a bit hidden (one has to know what to look for) and “foreign.”
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Now, as someone who doesn’t use GNOME, I wonder if NM would work well
> for me.  Last time I tried it’s CLI was too low-level to be usable, and
> I don’t remember seeing a curses interface.  Suggestions?
> 
> Thanks,
> Ludo’.

When I used it with GNOME it was okay.

But as I personally don't really use GNOME and fancy
integration doesn't help me: Don't we have nm-curses? or is
that a separate package?
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NetworkManager instead of Wicd in ‘%desktop-services’?

2017-07-30 Thread Ludovic Courtès 
Hello Guix!

Shouldn’t we replace Wicd with NetworkManager in ‘%desktop-services’?

I’ve given it a try on a GuixSD GNOME installation and it appears to
work well, and it’s obviously well-integrated with GNOME, whereas Wicd
is a bit hidden (one has to know what to look for) and “foreign.”

Thoughts?

Now, as someone who doesn’t use GNOME, I wonder if NM would work well
for me.  Last time I tried it’s CLI was too low-level to be usable, and
I don’t remember seeing a curses interface.  Suggestions?

Thanks,
Ludo’.

Re: Continuing the work on the recipes related to GNU Ring

2017-07-30 Thread ng0 
Adonay Felipe Nogueira transcribed 0.3K bytes:
> Do you mean creating a new patch report in guix-patches (even though the
> patches have already been sent to guix-patches)? This would result in
> two patch submissions being openned (one which is the older, and is
> still open, and other that would be the new one).

Okay, I didn't know there was already one open. I just saw this post
where you said you submitted patches, no one replied for almost 4 weeks
and thought it was lost.
If there's nothing to be done here, it's all good.
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Re: Continuing the work on the recipes related to GNU Ring

2017-07-30 Thread Adonay Felipe Nogueira 
Do you mean creating a new patch report in guix-patches (even though the
patches have already been sent to guix-patches)? This would result in
two patch submissions being openned (one which is the older, and is
still open, and other that would be the new one).

Re: Continuing the work on the recipes related to GNU Ring

2017-07-30 Thread ng0 
Adonay Felipe Nogueira transcribed 0.7K bytes:
> Hi, I have sent some patches, see
> [[http://lists.gnu.org/archive/html/guix-patches/2017-06/msg00831.html]].

Can you please resend them to guix-patc...@gnu.org in case
no one has reviewed them? It's easier to be able to track
them.
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