Re: Browsing Guix (or any) lists with Gmane
Hello Adonay! Adonay Felipe Nogueira writes: > Interesting... > > I wonder if this can be combined with the current Namazu instance? I ask > because we also have Namazu which allows searching, and which I think is > also provided by the provider who hosts this mailing list. I don't know! But it seems they are planning to use ElasticSearch[1] to provide a search engine, as explained on their blog [2]: Mid August we received a disk from Lars with the Gmane spool on it. We had already decided to go with ElasticSearch for the document store, it gives us great scalability and as we rebuild the site it will allow us to have a fast search engine. Maxim [1] https://www.elastic.co/ [2] http://home.gmane.org/
Re: Browsing Guix (or any) lists with Gmane
Interesting... I wonder if this can be combined with the current Namazu instance? I ask because we also have Namazu which allows searching, and which I think is also provided by the provider who hosts this mailing list. Maxim Cournoyer writes: > Hello Guix! > > For Guix and Gnus (or to become) users out there, I thought I'd share > this brief post where I explained the process of setting up Gnus and Gmane. > > Here are some benefits: > 1. No need to locally store emails; just view them over NNTP. > 2. Easily subscribe to some lists in Gnus without having to go through > the mailman registration. > 3. Much nicer/convenient UI than the web archives pages; you can post > follow-ups directly. > 4. Rich collection of some 3+ mailing list archives. > > The main drawback I've found so far is that server-side search facility > doesn't seem to be available yet in the new Gmane. Still, it's not too > long to load the full list of messages ever post to a list and use Emacs > or Gnus native features to search/sort. > > Here's the full original post: > > From: Maxim Cournoyer > Subject: Gmane with Gnus first timer > Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.user > To: info-gnus-engl...@gnu.org > Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 11:12:38 -0400 (4 days, 59 minutes, 13 seconds ago) > > Hello Gnusers! > > I've started experimenting with Gmane[1], and it seems very useful at > easily navigating archived mailing lists! > > I thought I'd share some of the details for NNTP neophytes like me; I > had the good fortune to be helped on the IRC #gnus channel by > sixbitslacker, who shared important bits of their config as well as > the Gmane's X.509 certificate necessary for proper TLS authentication. > > * Gnus configuration > > The first thing I did was adding a select method to my Gnus > configuration. I already had a `gnus-select-method' defined with my > email server, so I used `gnus-secondary-select-methods' for Gmane: > > ;; To be put in your ~/.gnus.el or similar. > (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods > '((nntp "gmane" > (nntp-address "news.gmane.org" > > > * Gmane TLS certificate > > I then started Gnus. I was greeted with a warning that said: > > Certificate information > Issued by:news.gmane.org > Issued to:Gmane > Hostname: news.gmane.org > Public key: RSA, signature: RSA-SHA1 > Protocol: TLS1.2, key: RSA, cipher: AES-256-GCM, mac: AEAD > Security level: Low > Valid:From 2015-01-13 to 2018-01-12 > > > The TLS connection to news.gmane.org:nntp is insecure for the > following reasons: > > certificate signer was not found (self-signed) > certificate was signed with an insecure algorithm > the certificate was signed by an unknown and therefore unstrusted authority > certificate could not be verified > > > While we can't do anything about the weak SHA1 signature, we can at > least fix the other warnings by trusting the self-signed certificate > that Gmane is using. > > To do so, we must first retrieve the X.509 certificate that Gmane > uses. The OpenSSL package provides a mean to do so (credits to > sixbitslacker): > > openssl s_client -starttls smtp -connect news.gmane.org:119 > > Amongst the output you should find the server certificate, which is: > > -BEGIN CERTIFICATE- > MIICwjCCAiugAwIBAgIJAJOYYw06tv/WMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMEsxCzAJBgNV > BAYTAk5PMRMwEQYDVQQIEwpTb21lLVN0YXRlMQ4wDAYDVQQKEwVHbWFuZTEXMBUG > A1UEAxMObmV3cy5nbWFuZS5vcmcwHhcNMTUwMTEzMjExMzQ2WhcNMTgwMTEyMjEx > MzQ2WjBLMQswCQYDVQQGEwJOTzETMBEGA1UECBMKU29tZS1TdGF0ZTEOMAwGA1UE > ChMFR21hbmUxFzAVBgNVBAMTDm5ld3MuZ21hbmUub3JnMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB > AQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQDK4MBGhSVg3O/L0U7ME7D4kmiPShwxmu6NZzQ5UsBV3S5H > qzPBEaInGUqX0IJX2pGVMKTGOmy+Sz0aJYcKQJdJ1Zq9LAtUOk7gflxX4z4wrcng > 9bRz1z8D3/KJFyTrELZyEC8DkKEwbO4LxO3QrfxNXOkpuVZ0eUlP/AwVGN9D+QID > AQABo4GtMIGqMB0GA1UdDgQWBBRCnZpe5p9+0CKQoFm/RVzp/EmUTzB7BgNVHSME > dDBygBRCnZpe5p9+0CKQoFm/RVzp/EmUT6FPpE0wSzELMAkGA1UEBhMCTk8xEzAR > BgNVBAgTClNvbWUtU3RhdGUxDjAMBgNVBAoTBUdtYW5lMRcwFQYDVQQDEw5uZXdz > LmdtYW5lLm9yZ4IJAJOYYw06tv/WMAwGA1UdEwQFMAMBAf8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEF > BQADgYEAQgcrfK9IN7DfqIGVwuhHZRBskbcTyD0oh11zUrr1s44sEq4pWT/ht42C > Cpn4g+mCCOLewLT+MAHxs7Acxbkxd+lQyRVWknVLHNQL48dUrQX9QCEZVcLHcZmL > w2mmmDMfRgLNKdNDO60BMtK/EGGaaYmLY+B4EzQtSVGRZfANXLg= > -END CERTIFICATE- > > Save this file somewhere, say, to "~/.gnutls/gmane.pem". Now we must > configure Emacs to trust this certificate. One easy way is to add this > line to your ~/.emacs file: > > (add-to-list 'gnutls-trustfile "~/.gnutls/gmane.pem") > > Another other options to make it globally trusted would be to place the > file under /etc/ > > Eval this line (C-M-x or C-x C-e on that s-exp) and restart Gnus. The > only remaining warning should be the one about the weak SHA1 signature: > > When I did, Emacs still complained that the server was deemed insecure > because the "certificate signer was not found (self-signed)". I am not > sure why it persists warning me about a self-sign
Re: Browsing Guix (or any) lists with Gmane
myglc2 writes: > On 10/01/2017 at 12:45 Maxim Cournoyer writes: > >> Hello Guix! >> >> For Guix and Gnus (or to become) users out there, I thought I'd share >> this brief post where I explained the process of setting up Gnus and Gmane. >> >> Here are some benefits: >> 1. No need to locally store emails; just view them over NNTP. >> 2. Easily subscribe to some lists in Gnus without having to go through >> the mailman registration. >> 3. Much nicer/convenient UI than the web archives pages; you can post >> follow-ups directly. >> 4. Rich collection of some 3+ mailing list archives. >> >> The main drawback I've found so far is that server-side search facility >> doesn't seem to be available yet in the new Gmane. Still, it's not too >> long to load the full list of messages ever post to a list and use Emacs >> or Gnus native features to search/sort. > > For several years I used and really liked gmane + gnus. I was shocked > when gmane went offline at my vulnerability to something I had taken for > granted. When gmane came back I found that the loss of search, which I > relied on, was a killer. So I cooked up a workaround (see below). Gmane > has been back, but, IMO, stagnant, for a year. I say stagnant because a > year has gone by with no new news posts and the gmane search is still > not working. NNTP without search is, IMO, TOTALLY lame. This makes me > wonder about the depth of support at gmane and whether it makes sense to > rely on it going forward. > Well, having never been blessed to experience Gmane with a working search, I guess that's why I find it useful nonetheless ;) > My workaround is to download the mail list archives to a local maildir > cache indexed/searched by gnus/notmuch/nnir and read with gnus + > nnmaildir. I use a makefile and mb2md running in the background to do > downloads and trigger indexing. While not elegant, this bit of hackage > frees me from depending on gmane or any other 3rd party and has turned > out to be very reliable. There is really only one hitch - it suffers a > hit each time you (re)open gnus. Apparently gnus has a scaling problem > with large nnmaildir directories. E.g., my 1.9G cache takes ~45 sec to > open on a 3.4 Ghz E3 w/2500 MB/sec Samsung 950PRO SSD. This is not > really a problem in my situation because I run on the server and leave > gnus open all the time. The 1.9 G includes all the guix lists, > emacs-orgmode and geiser-users. But if I followed more or bigger lists > expect the gnus (re)open might become prohibitive. That's an interesting solution, albeit a heavy one :). Thanks for sharing it. On my too small of a SSD, I can't afford to keep gigabytes of mailing list material around just for the occasional search, but I appreciate that this would allow me to be independent from any service such as Gmane. > I could avoid the gnus open hit by reading the cache with the notmuch > gui or indexing/reading the maildir cache with mu/mu4e (which I do for > my email accounts) since then I wouldn't be using gnus at all. I guess I > continue to read these lists with gnus because I got into the habit :-) > > Of course the best thing would be for gmane to restore search and to be > managed by an organization that has dept and staying power. If that > happened I would gladly discard my workaround because gmane was truly a > thing of beauty when search worked. I do hope that this will happen. Reading the last posts on the new Gmane blog, it seems they had big plans. Big plans take time to materialize, so I will show some patience, although it would be nice if they could keep us in the loop more with more frequent posts on their blog. Maxim
Re: Browsing Guix (or any) lists with Gmane
On 10/01/2017 at 12:45 Maxim Cournoyer writes: > Hello Guix! > > For Guix and Gnus (or to become) users out there, I thought I'd share > this brief post where I explained the process of setting up Gnus and Gmane. > > Here are some benefits: > 1. No need to locally store emails; just view them over NNTP. > 2. Easily subscribe to some lists in Gnus without having to go through > the mailman registration. > 3. Much nicer/convenient UI than the web archives pages; you can post > follow-ups directly. > 4. Rich collection of some 3+ mailing list archives. > > The main drawback I've found so far is that server-side search facility > doesn't seem to be available yet in the new Gmane. Still, it's not too > long to load the full list of messages ever post to a list and use Emacs > or Gnus native features to search/sort. For several years I used and really liked gmane + gnus. I was shocked when gmane went offline at my vulnerability to something I had taken for granted. When gmane came back I found that the loss of search, which I relied on, was a killer. So I cooked up a workaround (see below). Gmane has been back, but, IMO, stagnant, for a year. I say stagnant because a year has gone by with no new news posts and the gmane search is still not working. NNTP without search is, IMO, TOTALLY lame. This makes me wonder about the depth of support at gmane and whether it makes sense to rely on it going forward. My workaround is to download the mail list archives to a local maildir cache indexed/searched by gnus/notmuch/nnir and read with gnus + nnmaildir. I use a makefile and mb2md running in the background to do downloads and trigger indexing. While not elegant, this bit of hackage frees me from depending on gmane or any other 3rd party and has turned out to be very reliable. There is really only one hitch - it suffers a hit each time you (re)open gnus. Apparently gnus has a scaling problem with large nnmaildir directories. E.g., my 1.9G cache takes ~45 sec to open on a 3.4 Ghz E3 w/2500 MB/sec Samsung 950PRO SSD. This is not really a problem in my situation because I run on the server and leave gnus open all the time. The 1.9 G includes all the guix lists, emacs-orgmode and geiser-users. But if I followed more or bigger lists expect the gnus (re)open might become prohibitive. I could avoid the gnus open hit by reading the cache with the notmuch gui or indexing/reading the maildir cache with mu/mu4e (which I do for my email accounts) since then I wouldn't be using gnus at all. I guess I continue to read these lists with gnus because I got into the habit :-) Of course the best thing would be for gmane to restore search and to be managed by an organization that has dept and staying power. If that happened I would gladly discard my workaround because gmane was truly a thing of beauty when search worked. [...]
Browsing Guix (or any) lists with Gmane
Hello Guix! For Guix and Gnus (or to become) users out there, I thought I'd share this brief post where I explained the process of setting up Gnus and Gmane. Here are some benefits: 1. No need to locally store emails; just view them over NNTP. 2. Easily subscribe to some lists in Gnus without having to go through the mailman registration. 3. Much nicer/convenient UI than the web archives pages; you can post follow-ups directly. 4. Rich collection of some 3+ mailing list archives. The main drawback I've found so far is that server-side search facility doesn't seem to be available yet in the new Gmane. Still, it's not too long to load the full list of messages ever post to a list and use Emacs or Gnus native features to search/sort. Here's the full original post: From: Maxim Cournoyer Subject: Gmane with Gnus first timer Newsgroups: gmane.emacs.gnus.user To: info-gnus-engl...@gnu.org Date: Wed, 27 Sep 2017 11:12:38 -0400 (4 days, 59 minutes, 13 seconds ago) Hello Gnusers! I've started experimenting with Gmane[1], and it seems very useful at easily navigating archived mailing lists! I thought I'd share some of the details for NNTP neophytes like me; I had the good fortune to be helped on the IRC #gnus channel by sixbitslacker, who shared important bits of their config as well as the Gmane's X.509 certificate necessary for proper TLS authentication. * Gnus configuration The first thing I did was adding a select method to my Gnus configuration. I already had a `gnus-select-method' defined with my email server, so I used `gnus-secondary-select-methods' for Gmane: ;; To be put in your ~/.gnus.el or similar. (setq gnus-secondary-select-methods '((nntp "gmane" (nntp-address "news.gmane.org" * Gmane TLS certificate I then started Gnus. I was greeted with a warning that said: Certificate information Issued by:news.gmane.org Issued to:Gmane Hostname: news.gmane.org Public key: RSA, signature: RSA-SHA1 Protocol: TLS1.2, key: RSA, cipher: AES-256-GCM, mac: AEAD Security level: Low Valid:From 2015-01-13 to 2018-01-12 The TLS connection to news.gmane.org:nntp is insecure for the following reasons: certificate signer was not found (self-signed) certificate was signed with an insecure algorithm the certificate was signed by an unknown and therefore unstrusted authority certificate could not be verified While we can't do anything about the weak SHA1 signature, we can at least fix the other warnings by trusting the self-signed certificate that Gmane is using. To do so, we must first retrieve the X.509 certificate that Gmane uses. The OpenSSL package provides a mean to do so (credits to sixbitslacker): openssl s_client -starttls smtp -connect news.gmane.org:119 Amongst the output you should find the server certificate, which is: -BEGIN CERTIFICATE- MIICwjCCAiugAwIBAgIJAJOYYw06tv/WMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEBBQUAMEsxCzAJBgNV BAYTAk5PMRMwEQYDVQQIEwpTb21lLVN0YXRlMQ4wDAYDVQQKEwVHbWFuZTEXMBUG A1UEAxMObmV3cy5nbWFuZS5vcmcwHhcNMTUwMTEzMjExMzQ2WhcNMTgwMTEyMjEx MzQ2WjBLMQswCQYDVQQGEwJOTzETMBEGA1UECBMKU29tZS1TdGF0ZTEOMAwGA1UE ChMFR21hbmUxFzAVBgNVBAMTDm5ld3MuZ21hbmUub3JnMIGfMA0GCSqGSIb3DQEB AQUAA4GNADCBiQKBgQDK4MBGhSVg3O/L0U7ME7D4kmiPShwxmu6NZzQ5UsBV3S5H qzPBEaInGUqX0IJX2pGVMKTGOmy+Sz0aJYcKQJdJ1Zq9LAtUOk7gflxX4z4wrcng 9bRz1z8D3/KJFyTrELZyEC8DkKEwbO4LxO3QrfxNXOkpuVZ0eUlP/AwVGN9D+QID AQABo4GtMIGqMB0GA1UdDgQWBBRCnZpe5p9+0CKQoFm/RVzp/EmUTzB7BgNVHSME dDBygBRCnZpe5p9+0CKQoFm/RVzp/EmUT6FPpE0wSzELMAkGA1UEBhMCTk8xEzAR BgNVBAgTClNvbWUtU3RhdGUxDjAMBgNVBAoTBUdtYW5lMRcwFQYDVQQDEw5uZXdz LmdtYW5lLm9yZ4IJAJOYYw06tv/WMAwGA1UdEwQFMAMBAf8wDQYJKoZIhvcNAQEF BQADgYEAQgcrfK9IN7DfqIGVwuhHZRBskbcTyD0oh11zUrr1s44sEq4pWT/ht42C Cpn4g+mCCOLewLT+MAHxs7Acxbkxd+lQyRVWknVLHNQL48dUrQX9QCEZVcLHcZmL w2mmmDMfRgLNKdNDO60BMtK/EGGaaYmLY+B4EzQtSVGRZfANXLg= -END CERTIFICATE- Save this file somewhere, say, to "~/.gnutls/gmane.pem". Now we must configure Emacs to trust this certificate. One easy way is to add this line to your ~/.emacs file: (add-to-list 'gnutls-trustfile "~/.gnutls/gmane.pem") Another other options to make it globally trusted would be to place the file under /etc/ Eval this line (C-M-x or C-x C-e on that s-exp) and restart Gnus. The only remaining warning should be the one about the weak SHA1 signature: When I did, Emacs still complained that the server was deemed insecure because the "certificate signer was not found (self-signed)". I am not sure why it persists warning me about a self-signed certificate after I've explicitly given it my trust, nor do I know why the weak SHA1 issue is not raised anymore... But anyway, I consider our due diligence done, so at this point you may choose "Always" when presented the security prompt. * Browsing lists with Gmane You should now be in the plain old *Group* buffer, with nothing new in it. To actually navigate the mailing lists archived by Gmane, you may press the '^' key to show a list of the
