Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
Hallo! Ricardo Wurmus skribis: > Ludovic Courtès writes: > >> Hi! >> >> Vagrant Cascadian skribis: >> >>> The main two issues I'm aware of are... >>> >>> Issue with "guix pull" from the guix 1.2 version: >>> >>> https://bugs.debian.org/1001833 >> >> I believe this was fixed: >> >> https://issues.guix.gnu.org/52694 > > Last week (or maybe two weeks ago, but no sooner than that) I ran “sudo > apt install guix” on a laptop with Debian and I followed the advice to > pull to the commit corresponding to 1.3.0. It should no longer be needed. > Every time at the end I got this git error: “the requested type does not > match the type in the ODB”. I think this bug was present in 1.3.0 and was since fixed: commit efa578ecaece67366b4b0e2266de7c2faaa4ae54 https://issues.guix.gnu.org/40377 No workaround for this one, other than passing the actual commit ID instead of the tag name to ‘guix pull --commit’. Ludo’.
Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
Vagrant Cascadian writes: >> (In the end I removed the Debian package and installed with >> https://guix.gnu.org/install.sh; this was trickier than it should have >> been, because the Debian package left behind a broken init service and >> some state that I deleted manually.) > > There is a difference on Debian between removed and purged, sounds like > you just removed it: > > apt --purge remove PACKAGE > > should have done what you wanted, and if it didn't, bugs reports would > be appreciated... Ah, I wasn’t aware of the difference. I’m sure it works fine. Now I no longer have a way to test this, though, as the laptop uses Guix now. -- Ricardo
Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
On 2022-02-05, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > Ludovic Courtès writes: >> Vagrant Cascadian skribis: >> >>> The main two issues I'm aware of are... >>> >>> Issue with "guix pull" from the guix 1.2 version: >>> >>> https://bugs.debian.org/1001833 >> >> I believe this was fixed: >> >> https://issues.guix.gnu.org/52694 Great, will try it again! > Last week (or maybe two weeks ago, but no sooner than that) I ran “sudo > apt install guix” on a laptop with Debian and I followed the advice to > pull to the commit corresponding to 1.3.0. That definitely worked a while back when I followed up to the Debian bug, but guix always seems to have some new surprises in store! > Every time at the end I got this git error: “the requested type does not > match the type in the ODB”. > > Would it have been any different had I pulled directly to the latest > version…? Or is this unrelated? I'll have to verify again... > (In the end I removed the Debian package and installed with > https://guix.gnu.org/install.sh; this was trickier than it should have > been, because the Debian package left behind a broken init service and > some state that I deleted manually.) There is a difference on Debian between removed and purged, sounds like you just removed it: apt --purge remove PACKAGE should have done what you wanted, and if it didn't, bugs reports would be appreciated... live well, vagrant signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
Ludovic Courtès writes: > Hi! > > Vagrant Cascadian skribis: > >> The main two issues I'm aware of are... >> >> Issue with "guix pull" from the guix 1.2 version: >> >> https://bugs.debian.org/1001833 > > I believe this was fixed: > > https://issues.guix.gnu.org/52694 Last week (or maybe two weeks ago, but no sooner than that) I ran “sudo apt install guix” on a laptop with Debian and I followed the advice to pull to the commit corresponding to 1.3.0. Every time at the end I got this git error: “the requested type does not match the type in the ODB”. Would it have been any different had I pulled directly to the latest version…? Or is this unrelated? (In the end I removed the Debian package and installed with https://guix.gnu.org/install.sh; this was trickier than it should have been, because the Debian package left behind a broken init service and some state that I deleted manually.) -- Ricardo
Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
Hi! Vagrant Cascadian skribis: > The main two issues I'm aware of are... > > Issue with "guix pull" from the guix 1.2 version: > > https://bugs.debian.org/1001833 I believe this was fixed: https://issues.guix.gnu.org/52694 Thanks, Ludo’.
Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
On +2022-01-27 22:43:06 -0300, David Pirotte wrote: > > > ... > > What does "apt search guix" produce? > > (Nothing, on the puri.sm variant of debian. They maintain a custom > > pool based on debian minus what they want to exclude AIUI) > > fwiw, > > > https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=guix=names=all=all Yeah, forgot to mention: they don't _prevent_ you from doing anything you want -- in fact that's what they're about: to ensure that you (having the necesssary expertise or funds to hire it) _can_ control as near as possible everything your computer does, including (not quite all) IME firmware, bios, bootloaders and the whole chain onwards. OTOH they may not want to spend a lot of time helping you undo what you did to yourself by bypassing their packages and safeguards. They may instead suggest you install QubesOS and run iffy stuff (like guix, whose reproducibility unfortunately does not exclude reproducing bugs and vulnerabilities :) in a dom for untrusted sfw. Personally, I like simplicity best, so I am watching MES and RISC-V and hoping for a "stateless" laptop which will bootload _anything_ into memory from _anywhere_ -- and ask me (via trustable interface) if I like the sha256 it computed for the image just loaded. Bonus for asking me if I want it to check or add to white-list via secure protocol to USB goodie. With only hot-pluggable high speed disks, I can just with keep my precious stuff fully separate and unconnected while I take internet advice like "just run everything as root, it makes it so much easier for a newbie." ;-) I think SeaBIOS and a doctored kernel-independent grub can get close, but I want stateless with _all_ hot-pluggable hard disks, even if two (for raid or cloning) of them have convenience slots to hold them as cartridges. Dreaming on ... -- Regards, Bengt Richter
Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
> ... > What does "apt search guix" produce? > (Nothing, on the puri.sm variant of debian. They maintain a custom > pool based on debian minus what they want to exclude AIUI) fwiw, https://packages.debian.org/search?keywords=guix=names=all=all pgpFnGcqMI6R8.pgp Description: OpenPGP digital signature
Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
This is a comment from a very different angle - another way to promote Guix is in the emerging (so I would like to believe ) worker cooperatives sector - there is a call for democratically directed software development (not in the do-o-cracy way that happens due to information asymmetry between "producers" and "consumers") GNU Guix can offer maximum transparency and user friendliness -Yasu > On Jan 28, 2022, at 08:36, Bengt Richter wrote: > > On +2022-01-26 23:42:05 +0100, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: >> >> Yasuaki Kudo writes: >> >>> Does Guix really run out of the box in Debian? >>> >>> I have never tried it but my friend Debian expert friend keeps telling me >>> that: >>> >>> * Just apt-get installing Guix doesn't work >> >> How does “apt install guix” not work? There’s an older version of Guix >> in Debian. After installing it “guix pull” should get the latest >> version and it all works. >> > > What does "apt search guix" produce? > (Nothing, on the puri.sm variant of debian. They maintain a custom > pool based on debian minus what they want to exclude AIUI) > >> There’s also an installer script at https://guix.gnu.org/install.sh >> which skips the detour through apt and gets you the latest release >> directly. >> >>> * and his really big complaint is evidently he creates "virtual >>> environments" (short of full-on VMware, I imagine it is an assortment >>> of Linux native tricks that are wrapped by tools like Docker) for >>> every OS he tries but >>> * Evidently the same tricks don't work with Guix >> >> Is this not *exactly* what “guix shell” (formerly “guix enviromnent”) >> does? “guix shell -C” enters a container, even, using the same Linux >> namespace mechanism that Docker wraps. >> >>> * He does not want to try full blown Guix OS without first testing it in >>> above ways >> >> Guix can comfortably be used outside of Guix System. And you can >> *still* use most “guix system” commands, e.g. to build containers or >> virtual machines. >> >> -- >> Ricardo >> > > -- > Regards, > Bengt Richter
Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
On +2022-01-26 23:42:05 +0100, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > > Yasuaki Kudo writes: > > > Does Guix really run out of the box in Debian? > > > > I have never tried it but my friend Debian expert friend keeps telling me > > that: > > > > * Just apt-get installing Guix doesn't work > > How does “apt install guix” not work? There’s an older version of Guix > in Debian. After installing it “guix pull” should get the latest > version and it all works. > What does "apt search guix" produce? (Nothing, on the puri.sm variant of debian. They maintain a custom pool based on debian minus what they want to exclude AIUI) > There’s also an installer script at https://guix.gnu.org/install.sh > which skips the detour through apt and gets you the latest release > directly. > > > * and his really big complaint is evidently he creates "virtual > > environments" (short of full-on VMware, I imagine it is an assortment > > of Linux native tricks that are wrapped by tools like Docker) for > > every OS he tries but > > * Evidently the same tricks don't work with Guix > > Is this not *exactly* what “guix shell” (formerly “guix enviromnent”) > does? “guix shell -C” enters a container, even, using the same Linux > namespace mechanism that Docker wraps. > > > * He does not want to try full blown Guix OS without first testing it in > > above ways > > Guix can comfortably be used outside of Guix System. And you can > *still* use most “guix system” commands, e.g. to build containers or > virtual machines. > > -- > Ricardo > -- Regards, Bengt Richter
Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
On 2022-01-27, Yasuaki Kudo wrote: > Does Guix really run out of the box in Debian? > > I have never tried it but my friend Debian expert friend keeps telling me > that: > > * Just apt-get installing Guix doesn't work What doesn't work? The main two issues I'm aware of are... Issue with "guix pull" from the guix 1.2 version: https://bugs.debian.org/1001833 The workaround is to first pull to the guix 1.3 commit. The other issue has to do with incompatible glib versions in guix and Debian: https://bugs.debian.org/988260 I'm not aware of a workaround there other than sticking with either Guix or Debian for the affected packages. So I'll admit the experience is not absolutely free of surprises, but that's the generally the case of using any foreign package manager... If there are other issues specific to the Guix packages in Debian, please file bugs in the Debian bug tracking system; it's a great way to contribute back to the community! live well, vagrant signature.asc Description: PGP signature
Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
Well I have to tell you I am not too familiar with either Debian or Guix So with that disclaimer: - If I remember correctly, Guix in Debian just doesn't work straight away after apt-get install, meaning enabling of certain Guix services also required? - He needs to have everything that Guix needs "virtualized", including the folder /gnu straight under root, (under some /home/xyzuser/blah/ directory I presume). He does not care about Guix-as-container - he needs Guix-to-be-contained. Again, I don't know much, Im' just a casual Guix OS user (and I love it ) but does it make sense? -Yasu > On Jan 27, 2022, at 07:46, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > > > Yasuaki Kudo writes: > >> Does Guix really run out of the box in Debian? >> >> I have never tried it but my friend Debian expert friend keeps telling me >> that: >> >> * Just apt-get installing Guix doesn't work > > How does “apt install guix” not work? There’s an older version of Guix > in Debian. After installing it “guix pull” should get the latest > version and it all works. > > There’s also an installer script at https://guix.gnu.org/install.sh > which skips the detour through apt and gets you the latest release > directly. > >> * and his really big complaint is evidently he creates "virtual >> environments" (short of full-on VMware, I imagine it is an assortment >> of Linux native tricks that are wrapped by tools like Docker) for >> every OS he tries but >> * Evidently the same tricks don't work with Guix > > Is this not *exactly* what “guix shell” (formerly “guix enviromnent”) > does? “guix shell -C” enters a container, even, using the same Linux > namespace mechanism that Docker wraps. > >> * He does not want to try full blown Guix OS without first testing it in >> above ways > > Guix can comfortably be used outside of Guix System. And you can > *still* use most “guix system” commands, e.g. to build containers or > virtual machines. > > -- > Ricardo
Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
Yasuaki Kudo writes: > Does Guix really run out of the box in Debian? > > I have never tried it but my friend Debian expert friend keeps telling me > that: > > * Just apt-get installing Guix doesn't work How does “apt install guix” not work? There’s an older version of Guix in Debian. After installing it “guix pull” should get the latest version and it all works. There’s also an installer script at https://guix.gnu.org/install.sh which skips the detour through apt and gets you the latest release directly. > * and his really big complaint is evidently he creates "virtual > environments" (short of full-on VMware, I imagine it is an assortment > of Linux native tricks that are wrapped by tools like Docker) for > every OS he tries but > * Evidently the same tricks don't work with Guix Is this not *exactly* what “guix shell” (formerly “guix enviromnent”) does? “guix shell -C” enters a container, even, using the same Linux namespace mechanism that Docker wraps. > * He does not want to try full blown Guix OS without first testing it in > above ways Guix can comfortably be used outside of Guix System. And you can *still* use most “guix system” commands, e.g. to build containers or virtual machines. -- Ricardo
Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
Does Guix really run out of the box in Debian? I have never tried it but my friend Debian expert friend keeps telling me that: * Just apt-get installing Guix doesn't work * and his really big complaint is evidently he creates "virtual environments" (short of full-on VMware, I imagine it is an assortment of Linux native tricks that are wrapped by tools like Docker) for every OS he tries but * Evidently the same tricks don't work with Guix * He does not want to try full blown Guix OS without first testing it in above ways * He is very comfortable with Debian - doesn't see any benefit that Guix brings I cannot comment much because the whole point of my using Guix is precisely because I know very little if Linux and its surrounding toolset so I want to abstract it, paper it over with Guix -Yasu > On Jan 27, 2022, at 06:43, Ricardo Wurmus wrote: > > > Sławomir Lach writes: > >> Solution is simple: >> 1. Keep older packages in GUIX repo, so developers could request older >> version >> in scripts > > Unforunately, it’s really not that simply to keep older packages around. > I’m maintaining packages for a bunch of bioinformatics tools, for > example, which are stuck in the past. Building them becomes more and > more difficult as time passes and the rest of the world moves on. It is > not feasible to maintain an ever-growing collection of outdated software > and their toolchains. > > But: Guix supports channels, so people who absolutely must use GCC 3 to > build their abandoned tools to build their old source code that’s stuck > in the past can totally do that. > >> Minus: possible security hell. > > :) > > -- > Ricardo >
Re: The way to promote GUIX package manager
Sławomir Lach writes: > Solution is simple: > 1. Keep older packages in GUIX repo, so developers could request older > version > in scripts Unforunately, it’s really not that simply to keep older packages around. I’m maintaining packages for a bunch of bioinformatics tools, for example, which are stuck in the past. Building them becomes more and more difficult as time passes and the rest of the world moves on. It is not feasible to maintain an ever-growing collection of outdated software and their toolchains. But: Guix supports channels, so people who absolutely must use GCC 3 to build their abandoned tools to build their old source code that’s stuck in the past can totally do that. > Minus: possible security hell. :) -- Ricardo
The way to promote GUIX package manager
Maybe it's road to security hell, but it is also very important for beginners and developers. Promote GNU GUIX by add support for installers/some scripts, which detects OS and install software by package manager based on detection. It is very hard to keep this kind of scripts fresh, because distribution will evolve. One think, that developers should still do is keep instructions to install guix package manager for some distros, but it is easier than keep instruction to install ton of packages. Maybe creating script to install guix for distributions and place it on single place + allow distro vendor to change it? Solution is simple: 1. Keep older packages in GUIX repo, so developers could request older version in scripts 2. Send patches to developers of these scripts, which will detects if there is gnu guix package manager on target system installed and request to install packages in exact versions, if there was gnu guix installed USE CASES: 1. KDevelop could request to install developers tools, such like gcc, gdb, php, etc. 2. Gaming managers could base on gnu guix instead of custom repository 3. ETC. RESULT: Simpler script to maintain, more distribution addressed, user do not have to worry if script will work for one's distro, faster advantage in linux ecosystem. Minus: possible security hell.
