Re: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery

[Lynn Downward]

HI, Audrey,

I took a class on tambour last fall. It seemed that the most important
thing to remember is that the fabric MUST, MUST, *MUST* be taut all
around, more so than any other embroidery you've ever done. You will
work with one hand above and one hand below your fabric. You load up
your thread with the beads and you crochet a chain stitch through the
fabric, with the beads underneath. Sounds simple, eh? NO, the beads
try to fall out as you work, the hook - as small as it is - tries to
stick into the fabric always in the wrong place. I spent the day
learning, the evening practicing and at bedtime, I put the project
away and never went back to it. Now, if I had given it a fair chance I
might be still doing the work. Others in the class did some lovely
work. I'm pretty clever with my hands; I can learn things fairly
easily, but not tambour work. I think I went too quickly from working
with the thread to the beaded thread --- trying to run before I really
got that balance thing worked out while I was walking. It was all me
who couldn't get it right; the teacher was good and patient. My friend
got quite fast with her work andd swears by tambour for both
embroidery and for beading, but I will continue to slog away and bead
with a needle the old-fashioned way.

Lacis sells the tambour hooks and I'm pretty sure they have books on
the subject. Maybe check with their website and then go looking
elsewhere for used copies of the books???

Best wishes,
LynnD


On 9/28/05, Audrey Bergeron-Morin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> >> I've found sites who sell tambour embroidery kits, but none that supply
> >> instructions. I'm not looking for anything extensive, just a basic guide
> >> would be fine...
> >>
> > Have you tried your local library for a book on it? A big "embroidery
> > bible"
> > may include such things. I knowso low tech...but you may have better
> > luck
> > there than on the Internet.
>
> Libraries around here are... well... full of cooking and gardening books,
> but not much else. Ah, and candle and soapmaking too. I'd have to go to the
> Central library, but all I wanted was a quick look :-) Not worth the travel
> time unless I actually plan to *do* some tambour embroidery at some point
> :-)
>
> BUT you've just reminded me that I've got an Encyclopedia of Needlework...
> there's about 2 pages on tambour embroidery, not very clear, but better than
> nothing!
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Re: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery

[Audrey Bergeron-Morin]

I've found sites who sell tambour embroidery kits, but none that supply
instructions. I'm not looking for anything extensive, just a basic guide
would be fine...

Have you tried your local library for a book on it? A big "embroidery 
bible"
may include such things. I knowso low tech...but you may have better 
luck

there than on the Internet.


Libraries around here are... well... full of cooking and gardening books, 
but not much else. Ah, and candle and soapmaking too. I'd have to go to the 
Central library, but all I wanted was a quick look :-) Not worth the travel 
time unless I actually plan to *do* some tambour embroidery at some point 
:-)


BUT you've just reminded me that I've got an Encyclopedia of Needlework... 
there's about 2 pages on tambour embroidery, not very clear, but better than 
nothing! 
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Re: [h-cost] Tambour embroidery

[AlbertCat]

In a message dated 9/28/2005 12:03:40 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

> I've found sites who sell tambour embroidery kits, but none that supply 
> instructions. I'm not looking for anything extensive, just a basic guide 
> would be fine...
> 

Have you tried your local library for a book on it? A big "embroidery bible" 
may include such things. I knowso low tech...but you may have better luck 
there than on the Internet.
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RE: [h-cost] living history questions

[Linda Rice]

Hi Carolyn~!

It sounds like you have a pretty big task ahead, but the good news is, it *can* 
be done, and the
program will be better for it in the long run. Our group did the same sort of 
thing several years
ago, and it's been a long growth process. We did lose some people, but the ones 
who stayed are
happy that we did it.  It sounds like you are blessed with a program director 
who has a vision and
a plan, and he's looking to delegate the work to get it done. Good on him! He 
really needs the
trust and support of the remaining core volunteers. 

I'll answer your questions below:

-Original Message-
 On Behalf Of Carolyn Kayta Barrows
Sent: Wednesday, September 28, 2005 9:47 AM

There has been a change in the leadership of a living history program I am 
in.  The new person in charge wants revive the program, which has almost 
become depopulated, and to make us look and act like a real living history 
program.  I am assuming that a higher standard of authenticity in costuming 
will help both to attract new people and to improve things generally, but 
I'm a costumer.

My questions:

What do you look for in a living history program you're considering 
joining?  What, besides the fact that it's a time period you're interested 
in, would attract you to such a program and, time permitting, make you want 
to come play?

## For me, it's all about the history, regardless of the who/when/where. I want 
the feeling of
complete immersion, and I want to try and convey that to the public, even if 
only just a fraction
of it crosses over. To me, it's magic!  Having accurate clothing plays a big 
part in recreating
this feeling. Making sure that everyone knows the whole story of the place or 
events, and is able
to talk about it also is a huge part of the picture. 


The new person in charge has specified two levels of participation, one 
full-time and one part-time.  We will have a core of regulars, and room for 
drop-ins who don't have the time nor the inclination to make a full-time 
commitment.  And he's allowing for days core people have to miss.

##This is an excellent plan, imo. Always remember that this is a volunteer 
outfit! Appreciate them
for what they give, and don't make them feel bad for what they can't give. Most 
of us would give
our eye teeth to be able to "play" all day long, but Real Life Comes First. 
I've seen program
directors get too caught up in looking good for their own bosses and end up 
treating the nice
people very poorly. Then in a few months they really panic when they look 
around and realize they
have no more volunteers. 


How authentic to the period should the costumes be at first?  We have 
several male characters who are wearing OK-looking generic working class 
clothing from our period, and about three women in garments that are about 
right for the year we've chosen (1901).  Should we go easy on the 
authenticity at first, and try to raise the standards later, or should we 
change to the higher standards now, and try to raise the few older members 
up to them?

## This is a really tough one.  My experience has been to just make the 
standards *now*, and have
everyone understand why you are doing this. Yes, some people are not going to 
like it, but some
people are going to rejoice! I bet if you talk to your program director, he'll 
back you up on the
new rules. After all, it's *his* vision! 


What is the best way to tell people who have been doing the program since 
it began, but whose standards of authentic costuming are not what the new 
person in charge wants them to be, that they have to meet higher standards 
now - if the new person in charge hasn't been in the program as long as 
they have?  The same question goes for me, the new costume mistress for the 
program.  My own solution would be to ask that when an objectionable 
garment wears out it should be replaced by a better one.  But I'm a 
volunteer, as are all the participants, so the question becomes a delicate 
one to ask.

## This is a delicate problem indeed. If you think you have some folks who are 
going to really balk
or get sniffy, then they will need some extra TLC. But the reality is, things 
like this are just a
fact of life. How many times have you had a job where all of a sudden you get a 
new boss, half your
age and full of newfangled ideas? It's a tough adjustment, but most people 
handle it just fine
eventually. Either that, or they move on to softer pastures. Don't let the few 
who *might* resent
changes cause you or your boss to hold back from what you know to be right. Who 
knows, they just
might surprise you!  You said that the program is in a low spot now anyway. If 
so, I bet the troops
all know it and are ready for something new. So, make new standards and recruit 
new people! 


Which 'cheats' are considered acceptable and which are not?  Some of the 
male characters are played by women with long hair, and they have always 
braided it and let it hang down their backs.  By 1901 pigtails w

[h-cost] Re: A-S/Viking tag

[Beth and Bob Matney]

I don't think that I can post attachments to the list, but I'll be glad to 
send you (offline) any pictures that you are interested in.


The sprang was on display at the Yorkshire Museum in York as well as a lot 
of other good stuff. The foot is missing but the rest was in pretty good 
shape. It dates from Late Roman period. I'll send it to you offline.


The Viking head-covering (silk) was at the FitzWilliam in Cambridge. 
(AWESOME manuscript display, by the way) They do not allow photography. It 
was complete and in excellent condition. The book "Viking Age Headcoverings 
from Dublin" ISBN: 0954385551  has an excellent description and photos of 
the type. I just happen to have a piece of silk in my stash that matches 
very closely


We were also at the West Stowe Anglo-Saxon Village and at Sutton Hoo (and 
other places).


Beth

At 01:03 PM 9/28/2005, you wrote:

Date: Wed, 28 Sep 2005 10:49:35 -0700 (PDT)
From: Chris <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [h-cost] A-S/Viking tag - Re: Eleonora da Toledo -- forensics

Picture(s)???  Did you say picture(s)???  I don't suppose you would post 
them?


:-)  Chris G.

Beth and Bob Matney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
We were unable to make it to Scandinavia on this trip (just not enough
time), so we went to the UK again. Saw a nice sprang "sock" (Roman period)
in York and have a pretty good photo of it, a silk headcovering (Viking)
and wool tunic (Coptic) in Cambridge, among other things. Had a very nice
time visiting and comparing notes with various "living history" reenactment
groups that we met while there.

Beth


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Re: [h-cost] living history questions

[aquazoo]

Carolyn asked,
> What do you look for in a living history program you're considering
> joining?  What, besides the fact that it's a time period you're interested
> in, would attract you to such a program and, time permitting, make you
> want to come play?

 I would consider whether or not the program allows me to do what I
want to do.  Personally I like to demonstrate a skill and talk to
visitors about what I am doing.  There may possibly be some
discussion of who I am portraying (general category, not a historic
character) but usually not in first person.

 Also from a personal viewpoint, I enjoy some people who do first
person and interacting with them to some extent.  But I have
experienced the sort who are overbearing, set on "acting" and treat
other interpretors as extras. (insulting, etc.)  If that was going on
in the program, I would lose interest.  Other people might enjoy that
kind of conflict.

> How authentic to the period should the costumes be at first?  We have
> several male characters who are wearing OK-looking generic working class
> clothing from our period, and about three women in garments that are about
> right for the year we've chosen (1901).  Should we go easy on the
> authenticity at first, and try to raise the standards later, or should we
> change to the higher standards now, and try to raise the few older members
> up to them?

 I think a change n the program is a good opportunity to introduce
better authenticity standards.  People will be making or buying new
thing all the time.  Encourage the highest authenticity that's
feasible, and work on raising the older members to the new standard.

 Thinking in terms of being new to the group, I would be very annoyed
if I was told my (about to be made or purchased) things were ok, and
then told later that they were not.  ESPECIALLY if someone knew all
along they were not right but did not say anything!

> What is the best way to tell people who have been doing the program since
> it began, but whose standards of authentic costuming are not what the new
> person in charge wants them to be, that they have to meet higher standards
> now - if the new person in charge hasn't been in the program as long as
> they have?  The same question goes for me, the new costume mistress for
> the program.  My own solution would be to ask that when an objectionable
> garment wears out it should be replaced by a better one.  But I'm a
> volunteer, as are all the participants, so the question becomes a delicate
> one to ask.

 It's a tough call, depending on the motivation and resources of the
existing people to update their clothing.  There will always be the
types who want to wear what has been accepted for the last 50
years

 I also don't agree on the "when it wears out" school of thought.  I
would make categories based on the complexity/expense of each
garment.  A pair of gloves, for example, might last a long time, but
would be easy to replace.  That should be done by the next season or
within a month, whatever works.  A tailored coat is expensive and
might have a "grandfather" period of a year or two.

 An "old" volunteer might have something incorrect in his wardrobe
that only comes out once or twice a year, and would take eons to wear
out.  Also have you considered if someone decides to give or loan
their old, incorrect item to a new person in the group?

 Also as far as the time to replace/wearing out - how visible is the
item?  Say a different period skirt worn underneath the correct skirt
or an earlier chemise (if either is appropriate).  If you can't see
the difference when the person is dressed, how soon must it be
replaced?  (Unless the person is doing a demo on the layers worn
under an outfit of the time, of course.)

> Which 'cheats' are considered acceptable and which are not?  Some of the
> male characters are played by women with long hair, and they have always
> braided it and let it hang down their backs.  By 1901 pigtails were out of
> use by working class men, even sailors.  Should we insist that these
> women, who aren't going to extremes to fool anyone but who do act like
> guys, do something about the hair and obvious female anatomy?  (BTW,
> the program's female characters have always worn corsets, or at least
looked
> like they were.)

 Yes, women playing men (or vice versa) should make an effort to look
the part.  For women, put up the hair under a hat, take off the
makeup and nail polish (yes, I've seen this!) bind and pad to look
like a heavy guy rather than a skinny guy with breasts.  Also pencil
in the eyebrows a bit if the woman plucks them - men don't pluck! 
It's not necessary to add 5-o'clock shadow and a prosthesis, just
hide the things that are obviously female.

> I have just begun an inventory of the stock of costumes this program has,
> and have compiled a list of "over my dead body" items I don't ever want to
> see used in a program I'm costume mistress of.  There's also a s

[h-cost] A-S/Viking tag - Re: Eleonora da Toledo -- forensics

[Chris]

Picture(s)???  Did you say picture(s)???  I don't suppose you would post them? 
 
:-)  Chris G.

Beth and Bob Matney <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Yes, it is interesting the different views published of "objective facts". 
Bizarre? Unfortunately, it seems such a common problem in research.

To bring this back to textiles and costume:

We were unable to make it to Scandinavia on this trip (just not enough 
time), so we went to the UK again. Saw a nice sprang "sock" (Roman period) 
in York and have a pretty good photo of it, a silk headcovering (Viking) 
and wool tunic (Coptic) in Cambridge, among other things. Had a very nice 
time visiting and comparing notes with various "living history" reenactment 
groups that we met while there.

Beth

At 11:23 AM 9/28/2005, you wrote:
>Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:48:08 -0700
>From: Cin 
>Subject: re: [h-cost] Eleonora da Toledo -- forensics



-
Yahoo! for Good
 Click here to donate to the Hurricane Katrina relief effort. 
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[h-cost] Re: Eleonora da Toledo -- forensics

[Beth and Bob Matney]

Yes, it is interesting the different views published of "objective facts". 
Bizarre? Unfortunately, it seems such a common problem in research.


To bring this back to textiles and costume:

We were unable to make it to Scandinavia on this trip (just not enough 
time), so we went to the UK again. Saw a nice sprang "sock" (Roman period) 
in York and have a pretty good photo of it, a silk headcovering (Viking) 
and wool tunic (Coptic) in Cambridge, among other things. Had a very nice 
time visiting and comparing notes with various "living history" reenactment 
groups that we met while there.


Beth

At 11:23 AM 9/28/2005, you wrote:

Date: Tue, 27 Sep 2005 16:48:08 -0700
From: Cin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: re: [h-cost] Eleonora da Toledo -- forensics

Beee-zarre.  "Archaeology" magazine july/aug 05 issue has the prelim
results from the current dig in Florence.  I think you'll find some of
the hands-on forensic evidence a given by the Italian archaeologists
to be "just a little" different.  I'll cite all of the Eleanora's
health tidbits from the article "Secrets of the Medici":


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Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Portraits, 18th & 19th century Clothing

[Audrey Bergeron-Morin]

- Original Message - From: "WickedFrau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>



Anyone know what that is drooping in the front part of her dress?
This one: 
http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4H5RT


You mean the red fabric? She's got the left shoulder of her "overdress" 
undone, or maybe she simply let it fall, so we can see the white dress 
underneath. I doesn't appear like it would reach all the way to her 
shoulder, but I think there's a tiny perspective problem here...


What *I'm* wondering, is how do they keep those high belts ON! They must be 
constantly trying to fall down...


I'd like to see the back of the gown... *sigh*...
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[h-cost] Tambour embroidery

[Audrey Bergeron-Morin]

I'm looking for quick how-to guide or tutorial about tambour embroidery (the 
type of embroidery done with a small hook, looks like a crochet chain 
stitch, was very popular during the Empire period).


I've found sites who sell tambour embroidery kits, but none that supply 
instructions. I'm not looking for anything extensive, just a basic guide 
would be fine...


Thanks. 
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[h-cost] living history questions

[Carolyn Kayta Barrows]

There has been a change in the leadership of a living history program I am 
in.  The new person in charge wants revive the program, which has almost 
become depopulated, and to make us look and act like a real living history 
program.  I am assuming that a higher standard of authenticity in costuming 
will help both to attract new people and to improve things generally, but 
I'm a costumer.


My questions:

What do you look for in a living history program you're considering 
joining?  What, besides the fact that it's a time period you're interested 
in, would attract you to such a program and, time permitting, make you want 
to come play?


The new person in charge has specified two levels of participation, one 
full-time and one part-time.  We will have a core of regulars, and room for 
drop-ins who don't have the time nor the inclination to make a full-time 
commitment.  And he's allowing for days core people have to miss.


How authentic to the period should the costumes be at first?  We have 
several male characters who are wearing OK-looking generic working class 
clothing from our period, and about three women in garments that are about 
right for the year we've chosen (1901).  Should we go easy on the 
authenticity at first, and try to raise the standards later, or should we 
change to the higher standards now, and try to raise the few older members 
up to them?


What is the best way to tell people who have been doing the program since 
it began, but whose standards of authentic costuming are not what the new 
person in charge wants them to be, that they have to meet higher standards 
now - if the new person in charge hasn't been in the program as long as 
they have?  The same question goes for me, the new costume mistress for the 
program.  My own solution would be to ask that when an objectionable 
garment wears out it should be replaced by a better one.  But I'm a 
volunteer, as are all the participants, so the question becomes a delicate 
one to ask.


Which 'cheats' are considered acceptable and which are not?  Some of the 
male characters are played by women with long hair, and they have always 
braided it and let it hang down their backs.  By 1901 pigtails were out of 
use by working class men, even sailors.  Should we insist that these women, 
who aren't going to extremes to fool anyone but who do act like guys, do 
something about the hair and obvious female anatomy?  (BTW, the program's 
female characters have always worn corsets, or at least looked like they were.)


I have just begun an inventory of the stock of costumes this program has, 
and have compiled a list of "over my dead body" items I don't ever want to 
see used in a program I'm costume mistress of.  There's also a soft list of 
things, like some of the mens' shirts, which read more like the 1850s than 
like 1901, which I'd like to phase out or, if currently not in use, to not 
issue to anyone.


The new person in charge also wants a list of costumes we need in 
stock.  I'm currently talking to him about getting participants to make 
their own costumes, to save program budget money we no longer have.  I have 
rashly volunteered to help all participants do this (and the program's 
historian has already roped me into a two-person shirt-sewing session with 
her).


   CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
 www.FunStuft.com

  \\\
-@@\\\
      7 )))
(((  <> 
   )   ((
  /\   /---\))

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Re: [h-cost] RE: What are These?

[Robin Netherton]

On Tue, 27 Sep 2005, Dawn wrote:

> McClure, Kate wrote:
> 
> > The image is from the artist Joos van Cleve (found under the C's) on his
> > third page, seventh image down.
> 
> They look like tassels to me. I'm not a religious iconography expert,
> but I bet she's supposed to be Mary Magdalen, and that would be Mary
> in the black robes and white headdress. No idea who the third woman in
> back is. I wouldn't count on her clothing being too accurate. It looks
> a little "exotic" for the time and place of the painting. By
> comparison, there's the donors in front in the fur-lined robes.

Yes, that's the Magdalen, frequently painted in this period with
flamboyant clothing, often with unusual / exotic / "foreign" details that
viewers would understand were not representative of real clothing.

The third woman in the back is the "third Mary" often shown in scenes of
the Crucifixion and related events.

--Robin

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Re: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Fencing (was: )

[Nancy Kiel]

I made mine from wool, with a heavyweight cotton lining, after making sure the 
combo passed the "punch" test (repeated stabs from a broken blade).
  - Original Message - 
  From: A. Thurman 
  To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
  Cc: h-costume@mail.indra.com 
  Sent: Tuesday, September 27, 2005 8:59 PM
  Subject: [h-cost] Slightly OT: Fencing (was: )


  I think that both you and Jean are right Wendy.

  To bring the conversation back to costume, I'm considering making
  myself a fencing doublet similar to the ones in Janet Arnold's
  Patterns of Fashion, but using linen canvas rather than leather for
  economy. I want to make a few alterations of overlap and padding to
  match the safety features of a modern fencing jacket but otherwise
  stick with a period look and feel (all natural fibers, late 16th/early
  17th c. silhouette). Has anyone tried this before?

  Allison T.
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Re: [h-cost] 16th Century Portraits, 18th & 19th century Clothing

[WickedFrau]

This one:  
http://search.sothebys.com/jsps/live/lot/LotDetail.jsp?lot_id=4H5RT


Audrey Bergeron-Morin wrote:


- Original Message - From: "WickedFrau" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>


Anyone know what that is drooping in the front part of her dress? 



Uh, sorry, which image are you asking a question about?
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