Re: [h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[Catherine Olanich Raymond]

On Monday 10 October 2005 4:04 pm, Diana Habra wrote:
> > Greetings everyone,
> >
> >I'm asking this question for my future mother-in-law.  She was chosen
> > to be on stage for a holiday concert and needs to sew a Victorian gown.
> >  Of all of the mainstream pattern companies, which one would you choose
> > to use for a project like this?  Thanks for any assistance.
>
> It depends on the true time frame"Victorian" covers around 50 years of
> fashion.  For later 1870's and later, Truly Victorian has nice patterns
> that I hear are good.

Truly Victorian actually has a few patterns for 1850s and 1860s, though I 
admit the only ones I've tried are for the later years.  If you're 
interested, go to www.trulyvictorian.com and check out their line--it's 
organized by time period.


-- 
Cathy Raymond <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

"As a general rule, if end users want to smash something repeatedly
with a sledgehammer, that's a sign of bad UI."--Bram Cohen
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[h-cost] Bice's links

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I made the page and hopefully there are some peole haven't seen. They are
fairly well organized although this is a bare basics page. If I get time
I'll arrange it a bit better this week.

http://snipurl.com/icz2

Bice
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Re: [h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[Jacqueline Johnson]

I have a links page for my own use but some of the links on it are not all
too appropriate. So let me make up a new page that is G rated.

Bice

On 10/10/05, Lynn Downward <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Bice, it's always good to have options. Please post if you would.
>
> Thanks,
> LynnD
>
> On 10/10/05, Jacqueline Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > No problem. I have a few more pattern companies that do victorian
> someplace
> > if anyone wants them.
> > Bice
>
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Re: [h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[Lynn Downward]

Bice, it's always good to have options. Please post if you would.

Thanks,
LynnD

On 10/10/05, Jacqueline Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> No problem. I have a few more pattern companies that do victorian someplace
> if anyone wants them.
> Bice
>
> On 10/10/05, otsisto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >
> > Address correction -
> > http://trulyvictorian.netfirms.com/
> > and thanks for the sites Bice
> > De
> >
> > -Original Message-
> > Well if you want "mainstream" I had a fairly easy time with any of
> > Simplicity's historical patterns. If you want still easy yet a bit more
> > accurate I'd suggest trulyvictorian.net  <
> > http://trulyvictorian.net> or
> > pastpatterns.com   I
> > also have had super ease with
> > lafnmoon.com   's new patterns.
> >
> > bice
> >
> >
> > ___
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Re: [h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[Jacqueline Johnson]

No problem. I have a few more pattern companies that do victorian someplace
if anyone wants them.
Bice

On 10/10/05, otsisto <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Address correction -
> http://trulyvictorian.netfirms.com/
> and thanks for the sites Bice
> De
>
> -Original Message-
> Well if you want "mainstream" I had a fairly easy time with any of
> Simplicity's historical patterns. If you want still easy yet a bit more
> accurate I'd suggest trulyvictorian.net  <
> http://trulyvictorian.net> or
> pastpatterns.com   I
> also have had super ease with
> lafnmoon.com   's new patterns.
>
> bice
>
>
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Re: [h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[E House]

I have heard nothing but good stuff about their patterns--check reviews 
here:

http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/tv.htm

-E House

- Original Message - 
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

www.trulyvictorian.com
You'll have to order from their site but I think teir victorian patterns 
are the most beautiful and easy to use out there.


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RE: [h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[Abel, Cynthia]

What part of the Victorian era is she representing? McCalls and
Butterick carry patterns that have the general line and pretty modern
cut if she is just after the look, especially the 1840's-60's "Dickens'
Christmas Carol"

If she wants 1850's-1865 and to be authentic in cut, go for the Martha
McCain patterns for Simplicity that also include chemise, petticoat and
hoopskirt patterns. Certainly not simple, but if she is also interested
in reinacting or just a history buff, it might be worth the work. All
three companies carry 1870-ish bustle back dress patterns. Butterick
also has some Belle Epoque 1890-1905 pretty authentic-looking patterns
in their "Making History series.

Also, she'll want to fit in with the rest of the cast, unless she is
doing a solo turn, so what is everyone wearing?

Cindy Abel

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
On Behalf Of Dawn
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 3:13 PM
To: Historical Costume
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> Greetings everyone,
> 
>I'm asking this question for my future mother-in-law.  She was
chosen to be on stage for a holiday concert and needs to sew a Victorian
gown.  Of all of the mainstream pattern companies, which one would you
choose to use for a project like this?  Thanks for any assistance.
> 

That would depend on which part of the "Victorian" period she wanted to
represent. 1837-1901 is a BIG chunk of time and fashion. :)

Simplicity generally covers the American Civil War years well. 1861-65. 
I have used the men's patterns and found them to be very detailed, and
quite  a bit of work. They also have two later dresses 1870-1880 ish,
and an earlier pattern for 'Dickens carolers' (~1840) which are more
'costume' than reproduction.

McCall's has a couple Civil War style ball gowns. Butterick's got a big
hoop-skirt dress and a slimmer 1870ish dress. Again, these are more
'costume' patterns than clothing reproductions, but they could work well
for stage without being too much fuss.


Dawn



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RE: [h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[otsisto]

Address correction -
http://trulyvictorian.netfirms.com/
and thanks for the sites Bice
De

-Original Message-
Well if you want "mainstream" I had a fairly easy time with any of
Simplicity's historical patterns. If you want still easy yet a bit more
accurate I'd suggest trulyvictorian.net  or
pastpatterns.com  I also have had super ease with
lafnmoon.com  's new patterns.

bice


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Re: [h-cost] KWCS report?

[Dawn]

Robin Netherton wrote:


So, can someone who went to KWCS in Kansas this weekend tell us how it
went?


I had fun. I thought it was worth the entrance fee (and the two hour 
drive) , and I learned something in every class. There was a bit of a 
crush at registration, and somehow I missed the costume show after lunch 
(they started on time, who expected that?) I thought there was a good 
selection of vendors, a lot better quality merchandise than I recall 
seeing at any SCA event from back when I was playing regularly.


Let's see, I took a men's medieval wear class and Kass McGann's Irish 
class Saturday, missed Marc Carlson's shoe class as a result :(.  Sat in 
a good class on early Spanish men's wear, and one on Russian women's 
clothing and then there was the long drive home.


Sunday it was the Historic Replicas class, and somehow I missed the 
German clothing class after that, and went to another early Spanish one. 
 The pleatwork embroidery lecture that afternoon was pretty well 
researched, I thought, some real interesting material. The last two 
hours were kind of a bust, I didn't think much of either class, so I 
won't mention what they were. Likely the teachers were as tired as I was.


I bought some buttons and some silk for the stash.

Anyone know where next years event is going to be?



Dawn


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Re: [h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[Lavolta Press]

Past Patterns are very good, their URL is www.pastpatterns.com.

Fran
Lavolta Press Books of Victorian and Edwardian Patterns
http://www.lavoltapress.com

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Greetings everyone,

  I'm asking this question for my future mother-in-law.  She was chosen to be 
on stage for a holiday concert and needs to sew a Victorian gown.  Of all of 
the mainstream pattern companies, which one would you choose to use for a 
project like this?  Thanks for any assistance.

Roscelin
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Re: [h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[Dawn]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


Greetings everyone,

   I'm asking this question for my future mother-in-law.  She was chosen to be 
on stage for a holiday concert and needs to sew a Victorian gown.  Of all of 
the mainstream pattern companies, which one would you choose to use for a 
project like this?  Thanks for any assistance.



That would depend on which part of the "Victorian" period she wanted to 
represent. 1837-1901 is a BIG chunk of time and fashion. :)


Simplicity generally covers the American Civil War years well. 1861-65. 
I have used the men's patterns and found them to be very detailed, and 
quite  a bit of work. They also have two later dresses 1870-1880 ish, 
and an earlier pattern for 'Dickens carolers' (~1840) which are more 
'costume' than reproduction.


McCall's has a couple Civil War style ball gowns. Butterick's got a big 
hoop-skirt dress and a slimmer 1870ish dress. Again, these are more 
'costume' patterns than clothing reproductions, but they could work well 
for stage without being too much fuss.



Dawn



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[h-cost] KWCS report?

[Robin Netherton]

So, can someone who went to KWCS in Kansas this weekend tell us how it
went?

--Robin

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Re: [h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[Jacqueline Johnson]

Well if you want "mainstream" I had a fairly easy time with any of
Simplicity's historical patterns. If you want still easy yet a bit more
accurate I'd suggest trulyvictorian.net  or
pastpatterns.com  I also have had super ease with
lafnmoon.com  's new patterns.

bice

>
> > Greetings everyone,
> >
> > I'm asking this question for my future mother-in-law. She was chosen to
> be
> > on stage for a holiday concert and needs to sew a Victorian gown. Of all
> of the
> > mainstream pattern companies, which one would you choose to use for a
> project
> > like this? Thanks for any assistance.
> >
> > Roscelin
> > ___
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> > h-costume@mail.indra.com
> > http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
> >
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Re: [h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[Diana Habra]

> Greetings everyone,
>
>I'm asking this question for my future mother-in-law.  She was chosen
> to be on stage for a holiday concert and needs to sew a Victorian gown.
>  Of all of the mainstream pattern companies, which one would you choose
> to use for a project like this?  Thanks for any assistance.

It depends on the true time frame"Victorian" covers around 50 years of
fashion.  For later 1870's and later, Truly Victorian has nice patterns
that I hear are good.

For 1850's & 1860's there are a few out there but I don't know which ones
are good.  One of the major pattern companies has a good historical
pattern for 1850's by Martha McCain.  There are also patterns for the
corset and petticoats.  Try the reviews on this website:

http://www.gbacg.org/Patterns/index.html

These are reviews of different patterns by people in my local Costumer's
Guild.  They might give you some good insight

Diana

www.RenaissanceFabrics.net
"Everything for the Costumer"

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Re: [h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[traci]

www.trulyvictorian.com

You'll have to order from their site but I think teir victorian patterns are 
the most beautiful and easy to use out there.

Traci

-- Original message -- 

> Greetings everyone, 
> 
> I'm asking this question for my future mother-in-law. She was chosen to be 
> on stage for a holiday concert and needs to sew a Victorian gown. Of all of 
> the 
> mainstream pattern companies, which one would you choose to use for a project 
> like this? Thanks for any assistance. 
> 
> Roscelin 
> ___ 
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> h-costume@mail.indra.com 
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Re: [h-cost] source for 1700-1710 Mantua

[AlbertCat]

 
In a message dated 10/10/2005 1:41:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

>  Vol. 1, 1660-1860 Pages 70 and 71.

Ah, thanks. Arnold was the first  place I checked


I must add, that it is [painfully] obvious from her pattern this gown was  
draped on a body or mannequin. No one would flat pattern anything and come up  
with such a pattern.
If you can find the Jean Hunnisett book, she has refined the basics of  the 
draped pattern to a very managable flat pattern [and you still have to drape  a 
lot]. It may not be accurate buteven if you go with the totally draped  
route...her ideas and directions are very informative and  helpful.
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[h-cost] Victorian Costume pattern

[roscelinlimoges]

Greetings everyone,

   I'm asking this question for my future mother-in-law.  She was chosen to be 
on stage for a holiday concert and needs to sew a Victorian gown.  Of all of 
the mainstream pattern companies, which one would you choose to use for a 
project like this?  Thanks for any assistance.

Roscelin
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Re: [h-cost] Tippets / wimples

[Robin Netherton]

On Mon, 10 Oct 2005, Jean Waddie wrote:

> I recently had to straighten out a confusion, because Early Medieval
> (Viking/Saxon/Norman) re-enactors generally use the word wimple for a
> single piece headcovering that wraps and drapes round head and
> shoulders, while 14th/15th century types use it for the specific item
> covering the neck, worn with a separate veil.  Someone asked for
> instructions for one, and got instructions for the other, which made
> no sense to them at all!

I bumped into this very difference when editing an article by my
colleague, Gale Owen-Crocker, who works on Anglo-Saxon dress. My
experience is mostly in 14th c. We used the word differently, just as you
descibed, and went round and round for a while till we sorted it out.

--Robin

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[h-cost] Tippets / wimples

[Jean Waddie]

I recently had to straighten out a confusion, because Early Medieval 
(Viking/Saxon/Norman) re-enactors generally use the word wimple for a 
single piece headcovering that wraps and drapes round head and 
shoulders, while 14th/15th century types use it for the specific item 
covering the neck, worn with a separate veil.  Someone asked for 
instructions for one, and got instructions for the other, which made no 
sense to them at all!


Jean


Sue Clemenger <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote

I've run into something similar, recently, with a current re-using of the
word "wimple" to describe a knitted thing ranging from a simple, oversized
tube that functions a bit like the turtlenecked part on a turtleneck sweater
(except that you can pull it up over your head, leaving your face exposed,
for warmth), or a hooded cowl, built similarly to a medieval hood with cowl
(although missing the liripipe).  It always causes this momentary "huh?"
with me, because I'm most familiar with the word as used to refer to the
woven/linen medieval women's item frequently paired with a veil. ;o)
--sue

- Original Message -
From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tippets




>I have found very little info so far on tippets and how they were made.

I have encountered things called tippets in several different centuries.

I

had to read a couple of sentences to realize you were talking SCA-period
tippets, instead of, say, Georgian ones.

CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
  www.FunStuft.com

   \\\
 -@@\\\
   7 )))
 (((  <> 
)   ((
   /\   /---\))



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--
Jean Waddie
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Re: [h-cost] source for 1700-1710 Mantua

[AlbertCat]

 
In a message dated 10/10/2005 1:41:06 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Sigh,  why did it have 
to be stuck in the back instead of in chronological order  like every 
other garment in the book. :/





*
 
 
That sneaky Janet!
 
Actually I think it's part of an appendix. You'll notice the  corrections for 
the quilted 1745-60 outfit there too.
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Re: [h-cost] source for 1700-1710 Mantua

[Dawn]

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 > But it DOES!
 
Vol. 1, 1660-1860 Pages 70 and 71.


Ah, thanks. Arnold was the first place I checked. Sigh, why did it have 
to be stuck in the back instead of in chronological order like every 
other garment in the book. :/





Dawn




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Re: [h-cost] source for 1700-1710 Mantua

[AlbertCat]

 
In a message dated 10/9/2005 8:52:41 P.M. Eastern Standard Time,  
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

I  specifically need this decade, and unfortunately Patterns of Fashion  
doesn't have a dress of this cut.



But it DOES!
 
Vol. 1, 1660-1860 Pages 70 and 71.
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Re: [h-cost] source for 1700-1710 Mantua

[Dawn]

Bjarne og Leif Drews wrote:


Hi,
I have not Blanche Paynes book, but i think i must have it, is it still 
available?


It is out of print and has been for a very long time (the 1st edition 
with diagrams) but you can find used copies online if you search on the 
title.




If it is a danish mantua you are reffering to, it has a pattern draft of 
it in: Ellen Andersen "Moden i 1700 årene"

...
This dress is the eldest whole garment in Denmark. It was exhibited last 
year on the national museum where they had an exhibition about the 
danish manorhouses. It also is very heavy because of the gold threads. 
In the underskirt it has pockets - yes real folded pockets in the side 
seams. It is my favourite museum dress.




I would love to see any pictures of the original or your reproduction, 
or any diagrams you might have.




Dawn

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Re: [h-cost] Tippets

[Sue Clemenger]

I've run into something similar, recently, with a current re-using of the
word "wimple" to describe a knitted thing ranging from a simple, oversized
tube that functions a bit like the turtlenecked part on a turtleneck sweater
(except that you can pull it up over your head, leaving your face exposed,
for warmth), or a hooded cowl, built similarly to a medieval hood with cowl
(although missing the liripipe).  It always causes this momentary "huh?"
with me, because I'm most familiar with the word as used to refer to the
woven/linen medieval women's item frequently paired with a veil. ;o)
--sue

- Original Message -
From: "Carolyn Kayta Barrows" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 4:22 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] Tippets


>
> >I have found very little info so far on tippets and how they were made.
>
> I have encountered things called tippets in several different centuries.
I
> had to read a couple of sentences to realize you were talking SCA-period
> tippets, instead of, say, Georgian ones.
>
> CarolynKayta Barrows
> dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
>   www.FunStuft.com
>
>    \\\
>  -@@\\\
>    7 )))
>  (((  <> 
> )   ((
>/\   /---\))


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Re: [h-cost]Bleak House, was Henry James film

[Kate M Bunting]

Correction - "Bleak House" doesn't start this week after all. There was a 
feature in "Radio Times", but it looks as though the actual first episode will 
not be shown until later in the month.
 
Kate Bunting
Librarian and 17th century reenactor

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Re: [h-cost] source for 1700-1710 Mantua

[Suzi Clarke]

At 12:52 10/10/2005, you wrote:

> If it is a danish mantua you are reffering to, it has a pattern draft of
it
> in: Ellen Andersen "Moden i 1700 årene"
> I also made this mantua once in a green dupioni, as i could not afford
> anything else at that time.

> If someone wants, i could help with a pattern, only i must warn you about
> the sleave curve is not correctly made because they did not fold all the
> pleats when they drew the curve.

I for one would dearly love to see the pattern, as I've been trying to
compare the various cutting techniques used in the mantua from this time.
I'm a little perplexed about the wool mantua pattern actually as it suggests
it is cut witha rounded shape at the side. I'd like to compare the Payne
diagram to the Waugh pattern (Cut of Women's Clothes) to see if they agree
on this matter.

If I could get my sticky paws on the English mantua from that wee book as
well...



The English mantua you refer to is in a book 
called "18th Century Women's Costume at Blaise 
Castle House" by Helen Burnett and Cleo Witt. 
Printed by Bristol City Museum. However, the 
mantua is dated c.1738-41. It still has its matching petticoat.


Suzi



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Re: [h-cost] source for 1700-1710 Mantua

[michaela]

> If it is a danish mantua you are reffering to, it has a pattern draft of
it
> in: Ellen Andersen "Moden i 1700 årene"
> I also made this mantua once in a green dupioni, as i could not afford
> anything else at that time.

> If someone wants, i could help with a pattern, only i must warn you about
> the sleave curve is not correctly made because they did not fold all the
> pleats when they drew the curve.

I for one would dearly love to see the pattern, as I've been trying to
compare the various cutting techniques used in the mantua from this time.
I'm a little perplexed about the wool mantua pattern actually as it suggests
it is cut witha rounded shape at the side. I'd like to compare the Payne
diagram to the Waugh pattern (Cut of Women's Clothes) to see if they agree
on this matter.

If I could get my sticky paws on the English mantua from that wee book as
well...

michaela de bruce
http://costumes.glittersweet.com



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Re: [h-cost] source for 1700-1710 Mantua

[michaela]

> http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/09/euwb/hob_1991.6.1a,b.htm
>
> I've always *loved* this dress. A very similar dress is on page 377 of
> my edition of Blanche Payne -- pattern is on 553-555.

<>

The pattern at the back is for the other Met mantua:
http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/hd/eudr/ho_33.54a,b.htm

There is supposed to also be a cutting diagram for this item in Cut of
Women's Dress. I have wanted to get my hands on it to compare.

Arnold has a pattern for a 1708-09 mantua from Clive House Museum, pages
70-71 of Patterns of Fashion 1. There is a wrapping gown that was supposed
to be a reassembled mantua in there too.


There is an absolutely delightful Mantua fromt he very early 18thC in a
small out of print book. There is a cutting diagram for it too, however the
library copy I had did not have it, lost by some student or other. Sigh. I
don't think the pattern was there even when I went to the University!

michaela de bruce
with enough green velveteen to make mantua for many people, but is settling
on making just one;)
http://costumes.glittersweet.com



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Re: [h-cost] source for 1700-1710 Mantua

[Bjarne og Leif Drews]

Hi,
I have not Blanche Paynes book, but i think i must have it, is it still 
available?
If it is a danish mantua you are reffering to, it has a pattern draft of it 
in: Ellen Andersen "Moden i 1700 årene"
I also made this mantua once in a green dupioni, as i could not afford 
anything else at that time.
The danish mantua dates from 1695 - 1709 (because that timeperiod, the lady 
who owned it was married. It is made of a french silk patterned with large 
scale scrolls of leaves and flowers, heavily with goldthread and emerald 
green bottom. Has a large train and sleave cuffs are buttoned with two 
buttons. Sleaves have many layed down pleats wich so often is seen in 
Watteaus paintings. Cuffs are pleated also a la raquette. The fronts are 
pleated to the waist and the overskirt  is lifted up in the sides by cord 
and button back in the bodice. The back of the bodice is so beatifull with 
deep pleats.
If someone wants, i could help with a pattern, only i must warn you about 
the sleave curve is not correctly made because they did not fold all the 
pleats when they drew the curve.
This dress is the eldest whole garment in Denmark. It was exhibited last 
year on the national museum where they had an exhibition about the danish 
manorhouses. It also is very heavy because of the gold threads. In the 
underskirt it has pockets - yes real folded pockets in the side seams. It is 
my favourite museum dress.


Bjarne


- Original Message - 
From: "Jacqueline Johnson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>

To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Monday, October 10, 2005 5:23 AM
Subject: Re: [h-cost] source for 1700-1710 Mantua


I didn't go that far back I was looking at 18th century. I did see the dress
on page 413 figure 434 and thought at fast glance that was it. But as it's
at the Copenhagen Museum that is unlikely.

On 10/9/05, Susan B. Farmer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:


Quoting Jacqueline Johnson <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:

> I own Blanche Payne and just looked through it quickly. I don't see the
gown
> there and I looked through that section. I also checked the drafts
section
> and don't see it there. I wondered though cause this is my favorite book
and
> thought I had seen it there too. I have a 1965 copy. Think that makes a
> difference?
>


http://www.metmuseum.org/toah/ho/09/euwb/hob_1991.6.1a,b.htm

I've always *loved* this dress. A very similar dress is on page 377 of
my edition of Blanche Payne -- pattern is on 553-555.

Susan
-
Susan Farmer
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
University of Tennessee
Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology
http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/


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Re: [h-cost] Tippets

[Carolyn Kayta Barrows]

I have found very little info so far on tippets and how they were made.


I have encountered things called tippets in several different centuries.  I 
had to read a couple of sentences to realize you were talking SCA-period 
tippets, instead of, say, Georgian ones.


   CarolynKayta Barrows
dollmaker, fibre artist, textillian
 www.FunStuft.com

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