Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem
When you are setting the hooks, do you recess them about 1/2 from the edge? Also do you sew the bar part of the hook up to the curve of said hook?? This helps to keep the hook from moving forward under stress. I set the opposite catch piece (bar, or thread) about 1/4 in top of the edge for a slight overlap. If using the 'u' catch, this is sewn on the inside so only the very edge is presented for the hook. On some older garments that have passed through my hands, the above method is prevalent. In my own experience. the problem has always been a matter of getting the right tension going between the two edges. This sometimes makes the difference? in the number of 'sets' needed for the job.?And when the garment is worn by another person, the tension will probably be changed. One can marvel at the uniformity of the ready-to-wear clothing industry as it has developed.? I suspect that the use of' buttons' was not for embellishment alone but also was part of solving the problems stated above.?? Kathleen M.?? -Original Message- From: Kimiko Small sstormwa...@yahoo.com Sent 10/18/2010 1:07:36 AM To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: [h-cost] Hooks bars problemHi all, This is more of a how-to do sewing technique question, but it does apply to historical clothing. I made up a new silk damask early 16th c. gown, which came out wonderfully for the most part, except for one major problem. The gown was closed down the center front with hooks bars, as it was the only way I could think of to close the center front, doing an overlap. I don't use hooks bars, or eyes, very often for a stressed situation. I usually lace closures shut. Usually I use hooks bars or threadbars on small cuffs or to close a skirt closed where it doesn't show, and/or the item isn't under stress. Well, these were a little stressed, although I made the outer kirtle at least an inch bigger than the supporting petticoat (which was fully laced shut), and then redid the seams to make it even a bit looser. But the outer fabric pulled back and the hooks could be seen down the middle of the bodice front. It was not very attractive and made me feel uncomfortable wearing it. How do I prevent this from happening again? Does anyone have a good book or site or something that will help me? I'd love to improve on this so I don't feel so self conscious about what I am wearing. Thanks in advance. Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Be the change you want to see in the world. ~ Ghandi The Tudor Lady's Wardrobe pattern http://www.margospatterns.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem
I referenced Arnold's PoF for the type and setting of the hooks and eyes at the center front opennings. They used large hooks and eyes, I used the standard coat hook and eyes, and then they are set into the seam so you can only see just the tips of either part, not on the face of either side. They seems to work well for me, especially with a supportive layer underneath (corset or petticoat bodies). The only time I've had problems is when I skipped the ridge support layer and there was a slight weight increase. I think I've also included boning alone the edge and that has helped too. alex So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with… On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Kimiko Small sstormwa...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, This is more of a how-to do sewing technique question, but it does apply to historical clothing. I made up a new silk damask early 16th c. gown, which came out wonderfully for the most part, except for one major problem. The gown was closed down the center front with hooks bars, as it was the only way I could think of to close the center front, doing an overlap. I don't use hooks bars, or eyes, very often for a stressed situation. I usually lace closures shut. Usually I use hooks bars or threadbars on small cuffs or to close a skirt closed where it doesn't show, and/or the item isn't under stress. Well, these were a little stressed, although I made the outer kirtle at least an inch bigger than the supporting petticoat (which was fully laced shut), and then redid the seams to make it even a bit looser. But the outer fabric pulled back and the hooks could be seen down the middle of the bodice front. It was not very attractive and made me feel uncomfortable wearing it. How do I prevent this from happening again? Does anyone have a good book or site or something that will help me? I'd love to improve on this so I don't feel so self conscious about what I am wearing. Thanks in advance. Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Be the change you want to see in the world. ~ Ghandi The Tudor Lady's Wardrobe pattern http://www.margospatterns.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem
Don't know if it would help for this particular problem, but how about alternating the sides of the hooks and eyes? Ann Wass -Original Message- From: Alexandria Doyle garbaho...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:40 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem I referenced Arnold's PoF for the type and setting of the hooks and yes at the center front opennings. They used large hooks and eyes, I sed the standard coat hook and eyes, and then they are set into the eam so you can only see just the tips of either part, not on the face f either side. They seems to work well for me, especially with a supportive layer nderneath (corset or petticoat bodies). The only time I've had roblems is when I skipped the ridge support layer and there was a light weight increase. I think I've also included boning alone the dge and that has helped too. alex o much to do and so little attention span to get it done with… On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Kimiko Small sstormwa...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, This is more of a how-to do sewing technique question, but it does apply to historical clothing. I made up a new silk damask early 16th c. gown, which came out wonderfully for the most part, except for one major problem. The gown was closed down the enter front with hooks bars, as it was the only way I could think of to close the center front, doing an overlap. I don't use hooks bars, or eyes, very often for a stressed situation. I usually lace closures shut. Usually I use hooks bars or threadbars on small cuffs or to close a skirt closed where it doesn't show, and/or the item isn't under stress. Well, these were a little stressed, although I made the outer kirtle at least n inch bigger than the supporting petticoat (which was fully laced shut), and hen redid the seams to make it even a bit looser. But the outer fabric pulled back and the hooks could be seen down the middle of the bodice front. It was not ery attractive and made me feel uncomfortable wearing it. How do I prevent this from happening again? Does anyone have a good book or ite or something that will help me? I'd love to improve on this so I don't feel so self conscious about what I am wearing. Thanks in advance. Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Be the change you want to see in the world. ~ Ghandi The Tudor Lady's Wardrobe pattern http://www.margospatterns.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ -costume mailing list -cost...@mail.indra.com ttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] hooks and bars
Kimiko: Are you sewing the tops of the hooks down as well as they eyes? If not, they will flop around and be visible. Cheryl Odom ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
Hi, that cloth sounds like old fashioned white cotton feed or flour sacking. Sometimes thes old pieces show up at fairs or garage sales. Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
The DEVA co., (W) uses a contemporary version of 100% cotton?feed-sack for some of their shirts. There are at least 3 styles that are usable for re-inactors of the 18th and 19th time periods...especially if one has to wear such for every day events. I have used them for years...especially for theater...good looking but rugged. Kathleen M? -Original Message- From: AVCHASE achasedes...@peoplepc.com Sent 10/18/2010 10:48:13 AM To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600Hi, that cloth sounds like old fashioned white cotton feed or flour sacking. Sometimes thes old pieces show up at fairs or garage sales. Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem
If the fit is tight, this works especially well: again, dealing with the tension problem. -Original Message- From: annbw...@aol.com Sent 10/18/2010 9:54:04 AM To: h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problemDon't know if it would help for this particular problem, but how about alternating the sides of the hooks and eyes? Ann Wass -Original Message- From: Alexandria Doyle garbaho...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, Oct 18, 2010 9:40 am Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem I referenced Arnold's PoF for the type and setting of the hooks and yes at the center front opennings. They used large hooks and eyes, I sed the standard coat hook and eyes, and then they are set into the eam so you can only see just the tips of either part, not on the face f either side. They seems to work well for me, especially with a supportive layer nderneath (corset or petticoat bodies). The only time I've had roblems is when I skipped the ridge support layer and there was a light weight increase. I think I've also included boning alone the dge and that has helped too. alex o much to do and so little attention span to get it done with? On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 12:07 AM, Kimiko Small sstormwa...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, This is more of a how-to do sewing technique question, but it does apply to historical clothing. I made up a new silk damask early 16th c. gown, which came out wonderfully for the most part, except for one major problem. The gown was closed down the enter front with hooks bars, as it was the only way I could think of to close the center front, doing an overlap. I don't use hooks bars, or eyes, very often for a stressed situation. I usually lace closures shut. Usually I use hooks bars or threadbars on small cuffs or to close a skirt closed where it doesn't show, and/or the item isn't under stress. Well, these were a little stressed, although I made the outer kirtle at least n inch bigger than the supporting petticoat (which was fully laced shut), and hen redid the seams to make it even a bit looser. But the outer fabric pulled back and the hooks could be seen down the middle of the bodice front. It was not ery attractive and made me feel uncomfortable wearing it. How do I prevent this from happening again? Does anyone have a good book or ite or something that will help me? I'd love to improve on this so I don't feel so self conscious about what I am wearing. Thanks in advance. Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Be the change you want to see in the world. ~ Ghandi The Tudor Lady's Wardrobe pattern http://www.margospatterns.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ -costume mailing list -cost...@mail.indra.com ttp://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem
Hi Kimiko, I was wrestling with what the sounds like the same problem on a friend of mine's Victorian bodice. She had used hook and eye tape to close the center front, and stitched it only to the inner layer of the bodice: makes sense, right? She didn't want the stitching that holds the tape on to show. Problem was that when she had the garment on the center front was under tension, and therefore the point under tension, the lining/facing fabric, pulled out and the result was the hooks and eyes as well as the lining/facing showing. Lacing her tighter wouldn't have helped because laying on a curvy, horizontal surface just isn't a natural thing for fabric to do, and it's going to want to drag and sag and generally be disagreeable. I could think of two solutions. Option 1: sew through all the layers, so that inside and outside are under even tension. Cover the visible stitching with trim. Option 2: which, someone already mentioned: set the hooks and eyes into the seam. Yes, they will show, and I figure: cover them with a placket. Lightweight boning in the seam helps too, though that more solves the hooks and eyes wanted to get close to each other, and causing gaps between them. If you're wearing a rigid under layer, that shouldn't be too much of a problem. Alternating hooks and eyes solves the problem of the hooks and eyes coming undone on their own, which happens when they don't have sufficient tension on them. I think my friend with the Victorian bodice is doing a combination of the two options, because the bodice is already made up and taking it apart to set hooks and eyes into the seams is just more effort than necessary. And say...how about sharing some pics? :) Claudine - Original Message From: Kimiko Small sstormwa...@yahoo.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 10:07:36 PM Subject: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem Hi all, This is more of a how-to do sewing technique question, but it does apply to historical clothing. I made up a new silk damask early 16th c. gown, which came out wonderfully for the most part, except for one major problem. The gown was closed down the center front with hooks bars, as it was the only way I could think of to close the center front, doing an overlap. I don't use hooks bars, or eyes, very often for a stressed situation. I usually lace closures shut. Usually I use hooks bars or threadbars on small cuffs or to close a skirt closed where it doesn't show, and/or the item isn't under stress. Well, these were a little stressed, although I made the outer kirtle at least an inch bigger than the supporting petticoat (which was fully laced shut), and then redid the seams to make it even a bit looser. But the outer fabric pulled back and the hooks could be seen down the middle of the bodice front. It was not very attractive and made me feel uncomfortable wearing it. How do I prevent this from happening again? Does anyone have a good book or site or something that will help me? I'd love to improve on this so I don't feel so self conscious about what I am wearing. Thanks in advance. Kimiko Small http://www.kimiko1.com Be the change you want to see in the world. ~ Ghandi The Tudor Lady's Wardrobe pattern http://www.margospatterns.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem
Option 2: which, someone already mentioned: set the hooks and eyes into the seam. Yes, they will show, and I figure: cover them with a placket. Just a note here, when you sew the hooks and eyes into the seam, you shouldn't be able to really see them anymore, just the edges of your bodice butting up together, so in this case, no placket to cover them is required. Oh, and you have to not only tack the lower part of the hook to the fabric, you also have to tack the upper part of the hook to fabric edge. The hook will have no oppertunity to flap or gap. it would only show at this point if there's A LOT of stress on it that pulls it out of their little pocket inside the seams. alex So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with… ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem
Here's what I've done for historical theater purposes, rather than strict use of historical methods. In Danse Libre performances the last thing I wanted to worry about is costume bits falling off while I was on stage. I chose to do up the lining with sturdy closures, then close the outside fashion layer with something nearly invisible like hooks eyes or covered snaps. This means that the bodice had to be bag lined all around except for CB (usually) closure area. Turn edges of the closure area leaving the outer layer(s) separate from the inside. Apply suitable closure methods to the separate layers.. The lining was closed usually with laces, but for a quick theatrical costume change (7 mins from Victorian into Ragtime), I've installed a zipper. On another, I made a fake closure in the back (a typical Victorian arrangement for a ballgown bodice) and placed the true closure on the CF under some trim. I realize, Kimiko, that you primarily do Tudor, and stay in your things for long periods so my theatrical suggestions are less useful. However, the multiple closures idea shows up in the 16th c with hooks, laces (points) used simultaneously. Finally, you (or your client) may also have over-tightened the stays so that the body fails to fill out the garment as it was designed. Best regards, --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com On Sun, Oct 17, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Kimiko Small sstormwa...@yahoo.com wrote: Hi all, This is more of a how-to do sewing technique question, but it does apply to historical clothing. I made up a new silk damask early 16th c. gown, which came out wonderfully for the most part, except for one major problem. The gown was closed down the center front with hooks bars, as it was the only way I could think of to close the center front, doing an overlap. I don't use hooks bars, or eyes, very often for a stressed situation. I usually lace closures shut. Usually I use hooks bars or threadbars on small cuffs or to close a skirt closed where it doesn't show, and/or the item isn't under stress. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric swatches
On 10/18/2010 12:55 AM, Kimiko Small wrote: The main wool swatch set I know of is in the book All About Wool : Fabric Dictionary and Swatchbook. It is a bit pricey, which is why I've not picked up a copy yet. I've also received some nice wool swatches from Wm Booth, Draper, which they can send to you on request. You have to email them, and ask for specific color swatches on the types you are interested in. I requested a few which they sent me for free. You could see about requesting all of what they have and what cost that might be. It doesn't hurt to ask at least. Sadly, their purples were too dark for my needs, but I'm still itching to buy some of their red/clarets. Kimiko Small Actually that Swatchbook sounds like it would be more useful. I'm just looking for generic swatches of generic weights, weaves and surfaces -- nothing specific. Wonder if there are any used copies around! jerusha/ susan -- Susan Farmer sfar...@goldsword.com Abraham Baldwin Agricultural College Division of Science and Math http://www.goldsword.com/sfarmer/Trillium/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem
Hi Alex, Yes, I agree, if the hooks, eyes, and seam are done properly, the hooks shouldn't show. The operative words being done properly. :) I also agree that hooks work best when they're stitched both in the holes and around the top of the hook. They're just more stable that way. I thought of a third option, which I used on a Victorian evening bodice recently, that encompasses Cyn's suggestions. Tell me if this is clear: When I made up the lining, I turned the center front and made a casing for a bone. I then set the lining in by hand, and stitched the hooks and eyes in after (I stitched a strip of grosgrain along the edge where they're attached, to give them something more to grab on to than just the lining fabric). The stitches for the hooks and eyes don't go all the way through to the outside fabric because the bone is in between. Result: the strain is on the seam that holds the bone, and there's no strain on the fashion fabric. The fashion fabric is also slightly wider at center from than the lining, so that it covers up any gap. This bodice would've been a perfect application for hooks and eyes set into the seam, but I didn't think of it at the time. Wish I had, so that the inside of the bodice would look tidier. Claudine - Original Message From: Alexandria Doyle garbaho...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, October 18, 2010 8:28:04 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem Option 2: which, someone already mentioned: set the hooks and eyes into the seam. Yes, they will show, and I figure: cover them with a placket. Just a note here, when you sew the hooks and eyes into the seam, you shouldn't be able to really see them anymore, just the edges of your bodice butting up together, so in this case, no placket to cover them is required. Oh, and you have to not only tack the lower part of the hook to the fabric, you also have to tack the upper part of the hook to fabric edge. The hook will have no oppertunity to flap or gap. it would only show at this point if there's A LOT of stress on it that pulls it out of their little pocket inside the seams. alex So much to do and so little attention span to get it done with… ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
Hi, That's interesting. Hadn't thought about sacking of any sort, but that would fit. However, the original shirt that the kid loves was manufactured by someone purchasing large quantities, probably at wholesale. There were a lot of pieces made of this fabric at the vendor's booth. If I found the vendor, I'd be tempted to buy him another shirt, just because I know he'd like and wear it. However, I really don't want to spend over $50 for a shirt if I can help it. I'll have to try some new googles, based on sacking - see what comes up. Thanks for the hint. Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of AVCHASE Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 7:48 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600 Hi, that cloth sounds like old fashioned white cotton feed or flour sacking. Sometimes thes old pieces show up at fairs or garage sales. Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
Hmmm...no luck with Google for 'The DEVA co.'. Any suggestions? Laurie T. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:08 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600 The DEVA co., (W) uses a contemporary version of 100% cotton?feed-sack for some of their shirts. There are at least 3 styles that are usable for re-inactors of the 18th and 19th time periods...especially if one has to wear such for every day events. I have used them for years...especially for theater...good looking but rugged. Kathleen M? -Original Message- From: AVCHASE achasedes...@peoplepc.com Sent 10/18/2010 10:48:13 AM To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600Hi, that cloth sounds like old fashioned white cotton feed or flour sacking. Sometimes thes old pieces show up at fairs or garage sales. Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
Hi Laurie, If you bought the original shirt from a vendor, and from I recall of RenFaire vendors, it's probably cotton gauze (is it crinkly?) I suggest just using a lightweight linen. It'll be similar in texture, and very nice to wear. I loves me linen shirts, shifts, smocks, pants, skirts, dresses, etc. Claudine - Original Message From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 12:40:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600 Hello, me again. For that same shirt project, now that I have woken up and recognized the many resources already present in my studio, I'm hung up on fabric. Well, not really hung up as I can certainly use 100% linen and end up with a reasonably period shirt. But the shirt that he already has is 100% cotton - I know - not period - but very comfy and again, he likes it. The fabric strikes me as rather unusual. It's an off-white - very creamy - but it's almost like a crepe - a cotton crepe. Online searching for 100% cotton crepes has yielded very little. Fashion Fabrics Club does have a tan cotton/linen crepe and a purple 100% cotton crepe, but that's all I've found. I may be wrong about the existing shirt being of a crepe, but that's the closest I can guess, even handling it directly. It reminds me of cotton (or maybe linen) dish towels, reasonably finely woven but very soft. It's very much different from any weight/weave of linen that I've found anywhere. Any thoughts? Laurie T. -Original Message- snipped ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
Perhaps you can get swashes for Dharma http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1667492-AA.shtml De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
devalifewear.com should do the trick. If you call them, they have several fabrics they use in their designs.? Ask for a sample of what is available...if the weight and weave is crucial. One of them is Devacloth which does have some 'crinkle'..but it 'reads' for the uniniated as un-ironed linen.? In following the thread, I take it that the design and appearance is more important than authenticity. If he gets 'hooked' with roleplaying life, you can upgrade the shirt to a closer period piece. My take on reality... Kathleen M -Original Message- From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com Sent 10/18/2010 1:10:14 PM To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600Hmmm...no luck with Google for 'The DEVA co.'. Any suggestions? Laurie T. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:08 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600 The DEVA co., (W) uses a contemporary version of 100% cotton?feed-sack for some of their shirts. There are at least 3 styles that are usable for re-inactors of the 18th and 19th time periods...especially if one has to wear such for every day events. I have used them for years...especially for theater...good looking but rugged. Kathleen M? -Original Message- From: AVCHASE achasedes...@peoplepc.com Sent 10/18/2010 10:48:13 AM To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600Hi, that cloth sounds like old fashioned white cotton feed or flour sacking. Sometimes thes old pieces show up at fairs or garage sales. Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem
Well said, Claudine. Your additional detail describes almost exactly what I've done. (One difference: I bone the lining layer at the closure.) When worn, the undergarments take all the strain, the lining section of the bodice keeps the garment fastened and the outer layers can look like they just blew delicately into place. That's the trick. It should look effortless even tho' we all know it takes 100s of hours to accomplish the feat. --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:37 AM, cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com wrote: I thought of a third option, which I used on a Victorian evening bodice recently, that encompasses Cyn's suggestions. Tell me if this is clear: When I made up the lining, I turned the center front and made a casing for a bone. I then set the lining in by hand, and stitched the hooks and eyes in after (I stitched a strip of grosgrain along the edge where they're attached, to give them something more to grab on to than just the lining fabric). The stitches for the hooks and eyes don't go all the way through to the outside fabric because the bone is in between. Result: the strain is on the seam that holds the bone, and there's no strain on the fashion fabric. The fashion fabric is also slightly wider at center from than the lining, so that it covers up any gap. This bodice would've been a perfect application for hooks and eyes set into the seam, but I didn't think of it at the time. Wish I had, so that the inside of the bodice would look tidier. Claudine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
Pics: Cotton bubble gauze (or as i call it pain in the arse to sew fabric) http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3479-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.html http://tinyurl.com/2eoarrh Cotton voile http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3501-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.html http://tinyurl.com/23awt58 Silky cotton voile http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/4521523-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.ht ml http://tinyurl.com/28zqcvo ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
For that same shirt project, now that I have woken up and recognized the many resources already present in my studio, I'm hung up on fabric. Well, not really hung up as I can certainly use 100% linen and end up with a reasonably period shirt. But the shirt that he already has is 100% cotton - I know - not period - but very comfy and again, he likes it. Cotton not period? Sure it is. I know it was used in Spain and Itialy in the Rennaisance (Hispanic Costume 1480-1530 by Ruth Matilda Anderson p.183 worn by Empress Isabel) and Germany, where it was also mixed with linen. Muslin (aka calico in Europe) is ideal. -- Aspasia Moonwind ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem
blew delicately into place snerk! Now, that is well said. :) And yes, if I wasn't clear, I meant that the boning is at the closure edges, so that they meet when the garment is closed. Claudine - Original Message From: Cin cinbar...@gmail.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Mon, October 18, 2010 11:01:38 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem Well said, Claudine. Your additional detail describes almost exactly what I've done. (One difference: I bone the lining layer at the closure.) When worn, the undergarments take all the strain, the lining section of the bodice keeps the garment fastened and the outer layers can look like they just blew delicately into place. That's the trick. It should look effortless even tho' we all know it takes 100s of hours to accomplish the feat. --cin Cynthia Barnes cinbar...@gmail.com On Mon, Oct 18, 2010 at 9:37 AM, cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com wrote: I thought of a third option, which I used on a Victorian evening bodice recently, that encompasses Cyn's suggestions. Tell me if this is clear: When I made up the lining, I turned the center front and made a casing for a bone. I then set the lining in by hand, and stitched the hooks and eyes in after (I stitched a strip of grosgrain along the edge where they're attached, to give them something more to grab on to than just the lining fabric). The stitches for the hooks and eyes don't go all the way through to the outside fabric because the bone is in between. Result: the strain is on the seam that holds the bone, and there's no strain on the fashion fabric. The fashion fabric is also slightly wider at center from than the lining, so that it covers up any gap. This bodice would've been a perfect application for hooks and eyes set into the seam, but I didn't think of it at the time. Wish I had, so that the inside of the bodice would look tidier. Claudine ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
Hi, In truth, I am almost completely confounded as to how to describe this fabric. It is interesting, maybe even yummy. I would not call it a crinkle at all, as it's not like any of the crinkles that I've ever seen. Yes, I may just go back to the neighborhood big-box fabric store and get some more of a quite decent linen that I found there. It softened up quite a bit, even after only a wash or two. Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of cw15147-hcos...@yahoo.com Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:25 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600 Hi Laurie, If you bought the original shirt from a vendor, and from I recall of RenFaire vendors, it's probably cotton gauze (is it crinkly?) I suggest just using a lightweight linen. It'll be similar in texture, and very nice to wear. I loves me linen shirts, shifts, smocks, pants, skirts, dresses, etc. Claudine - Original Message From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Sun, October 17, 2010 12:40:55 PM Subject: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600 Hello, me again. For that same shirt project, now that I have woken up and recognized the many resources already present in my studio, I'm hung up on fabric. Well, not really hung up as I can certainly use 100% linen and end up with a reasonably period shirt. But the shirt that he already has is 100% cotton - I know - not period - but very comfy and again, he likes it. The fabric strikes me as rather unusual. It's an off-white - very creamy - but it's almost like a crepe - a cotton crepe. Online searching for 100% cotton crepes has yielded very little. Fashion Fabrics Club does have a tan cotton/linen crepe and a purple 100% cotton crepe, but that's all I've found. I may be wrong about the existing shirt being of a crepe, but that's the closest I can guess, even handling it directly. It reminds me of cotton (or maybe linen) dish towels, reasonably finely woven but very soft. It's very much different from any weight/weave of linen that I've found anywhere. Any thoughts? Laurie T. -Original Message- snipped ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
Yes, Dharma is always an interesting option. I'll check them out. Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of otsisto Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:54 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600 Perhaps you can get swashes for Dharma http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/1667492-AA.shtml De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
Kathleen, when it comes to teenagers, your 'take on reality' is exactly like mine. First, get him hooked, then teach him about period authenticity. I just got of the phone with Deva. The pictures on the website didn't really tell me anything, but the descriptions sounded interesting and they are sending me a swatch set. Got my fingers crossed! Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:57 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600 devalifewear.com should do the trick. If you call them, they have several fabrics they use in their designs.? Ask for a sample of what is available...if the weight and weave is crucial. One of them is Devacloth which does have some 'crinkle'..but it 'reads' for the uniniated as un-ironed linen.? In following the thread, I take it that the design and appearance is more important than authenticity. If he gets 'hooked' with roleplaying life, you can upgrade the shirt to a closer period piece. My take on reality... Kathleen M -Original Message- From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com Sent 10/18/2010 1:10:14 PM To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600Hmmm...no luck with Google for 'The DEVA co.'. Any suggestions? Laurie T. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:08 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600 The DEVA co., (W) uses a contemporary version of 100% cotton?feed-sack for some of their shirts. There are at least 3 styles that are usable for re-inactors of the 18th and 19th time periods...especially if one has to wear such for every day events. I have used them for years...especially for theater...good looking but rugged. Kathleen M? -Original Message- From: AVCHASE achasedes...@peoplepc.com Sent 10/18/2010 10:48:13 AM To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600Hi, that cloth sounds like old fashioned white cotton feed or flour sacking. Sometimes thes old pieces show up at fairs or garage sales. Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
Hey, thanks for the Dharma links. I always get in trouble with Dharma - my boxes always contain more than what I intended to order! Must behave myself today, darn it! I know that the voiles will be way too light for this project, but it's so nice to see a cotton voile available for something substantially less than the $20+ that it costs to get it from Europe. For underlinings and interfacings, it doesn't need to be fancy, just basic cotton voile. I don't think I've ever seen Rayon voile before - cool. Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of otsisto Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 11:03 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600 Pics: Cotton bubble gauze (or as i call it pain in the arse to sew fabric) http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3479-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.html http://tinyurl.com/2eoarrh Cotton voile http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3501-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.html http://tinyurl.com/23awt58 Silky cotton voile http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/4521523-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.ht ml http://tinyurl.com/28zqcvo ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem
Thank you all for your suggestions on this problem. The front is on a curve, so boning is not going to be an option, but I will remember that option for straighter seams. I did sew down hooks and bars through the round holes, and the area by the hook top. But I did not set it back from the edge by 1/2, only about 1/4, which might be part of the problem so the hooks will be moved. The bars were sewn on top of the underlap about a half inch from the edge, so I will move those closer to the edge. Because of the lapped parts of the bodice, I couldn't figure out how to alternate the hooks and bars. Both hooks and bars were sewn through the lining and interlining of linen canvas, but that seems to be allowing the silk top fabric to shift back a little. I may hand sew the layers together about an inch back to keep the layers together and see if that also helps. I am trying to get a photo or two uploaded of the problem area but that's going to take a bit of work, as I am also uploading the rest of the photos for my dress diary. I don't have a full shot of the whole outfit yet, as I took a few photos with the photographer, but he hasn't contacted me yet to get the photos ordered. Another person took a photo of the Fashion Show we had at the Ball, and you can see the me in this photo (the only female of the three). http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=481895455986set=t.1209547229 The headband was annoying, and didn't stay in place until I shoved it close to the hairline near the end of the night, which is why it is nearly in my eyes. Live and learn. Thanks again for all the great suggestions. I've really learned a lot about what seems like a simple thing. I'll post a link to my dress diary and photos a little later. Kimiko Smallhttp://www.kimiko1.com Be the change you want to see in the world. ~ Ghandi The Tudor Lady's Wardrobe pattern http://www.margospatterns.com/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Hooks bars problem
I was told that the photos I linked to are not available. So I have uploaded them for a short time on my Livejournal album and made them public. http://pics.livejournal.com/sstormwatch/gallery/x2w4 Other photos will be noted later. Kimiko ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
Thank you...doing HS and college theartre taught me a lot...make me look good and I will try to be in costume (OED explanation) -Original Message- From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com Sent 10/18/2010 4:40:07 PM To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600Kathleen, when it comes to teenagers, your 'take on reality' is exactly like mine. First, get him hooked, then teach him about period authenticity. I just got of the phone with Deva. The pictures on the website didn't really tell me anything, but the descriptions sounded interesting and they are sending me a swatch set. Got my fingers crossed! Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 10:57 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600 devalifewear.com should do the trick. If you call them, they have several fabrics they use in their designs.? Ask for a sample of what is available...if the weight and weave is crucial. One of them is Devacloth which does have some 'crinkle'..but it 'reads' for the uniniated as un-ironed linen.? In following the thread, I take it that the design and appearance is more important than authenticity. If he gets 'hooked' with roleplaying life, you can upgrade the shirt to a closer period piece. My take on reality... Kathleen M -Original Message- From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com Sent 10/18/2010 1:10:14 PM To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600Hmmm...no luck with Google for 'The DEVA co.'. Any suggestions? Laurie T. -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of R Lloyd Mitchell Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 8:08 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600 The DEVA co., (W) uses a contemporary version of 100% cotton?feed-sack for some of their shirts. There are at least 3 styles that are usable for re-inactors of the 18th and 19th time periods...especially if one has to wear such for every day events. I have used them for years...especially for theater...good looking but rugged. Kathleen M? -Original Message- From: AVCHASE achasedes...@peoplepc.com Sent 10/18/2010 10:48:13 AM To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600Hi, that cloth sounds like old fashioned white cotton feed or flour sacking. Sometimes thes old pieces show up at fairs or garage sales. Audy in the high boonies of Central Texas PeoplePC Online A better way to Internet http://www.peoplepc.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
On 10/18/2010 01:57 PM, R Lloyd Mitchell wrote: devalifewear.com should do the trick. If you call them, they have several fabrics they use in their designs.? Ask for a sample of what is available...if the weight and weave is crucial. One of them is Devacloth which does have some 'crinkle'..but it 'reads' for the uniniated as un-ironed linen.? In following the thread, I take it that the design and appearance is more important than authenticity. If he gets 'hooked' with roleplaying life, you can upgrade the shirt to a closer period piece. My take on reality... Deva cloth is a bit too heavy for a shirt, IMHO, though it would be good for a tunic. Their Breezecloth might make a better shirt. -- Cathy Raymond ca...@thyrsus.com If you can make a girl laugh, you can make her do anything. — Marilyn Monroe ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600
love their fabrics and service.? The 'burnouts' are fab.? -Original Message- From: Laurie Taylor costume...@mazarineblue.com Sent 10/18/2010 4:43:26 PM To: 'Historical Costume' h-cost...@indra.com Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600Hey, thanks for the Dharma links. I always get in trouble with Dharma - my boxes always contain more than what I intended to order! Must behave myself today, darn it! I know that the voiles will be way too light for this project, but it's so nice to see a cotton voile available for something substantially less than the $20+ that it costs to get it from Europe. For underlinings and interfacings, it doesn't need to be fancy, just basic cotton voile. I don't think I've ever seen Rayon voile before - cool. Laurie -Original Message- From: h-costume-boun...@indra.com [mailto:h-costume-boun...@indra.com] On Behalf Of otsisto Sent: Monday, October 18, 2010 11:03 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Fabric - was: Shirt pattern - SCA period - pre-1600 Pics: Cotton bubble gauze (or as i call it pain in the arse to sew fabric) http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3479-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.htmlhttp://tinyurl.com/2eoarrh Cotton voile http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/3501-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.htmlhttp://tinyurl.com/23awt58 Silky cotton voile http://www.dharmatrading.com/html/eng/4521523-AA.shtml?lnav=fabric_cotton.ht ml http://tinyurl.com/28zqcvo ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
