Re: [h-cost] 10th/11th-century/early 12th-century "poncho" cloak

2011-11-06 Thread Marjorie Wilser
Given the parameters you mention, Lauren, I think your theory makes  
sense. It is what I would do to avoid cutting the fabric-- sew the two  
selvedges together and allow an opening which would not have to be  
cut. Any cut edges to be placed at the bottoms and hemmed or finished  
some way, where there is no weight to be born.


I am certainly no medieval expert, however, and will look forward to  
see what others will say. Loved the included links, though the last  
gave a not found error.


== Marjorie

On Nov 6, 2011, at 10:06 AM, Lauren Walker wrote(in part):

 I just can't see cutting a slit with the grain of the fabric right  
where the whole weight of the garment is going to be pulling on the  
cut.
 The seam is the center back, the unsewn part is the neck- 
hole, and you end up with a cone- shaped garment that drapes very  
much like the drawings. If you want to make a curve in the back hem,  
you're now cutting mostly edges that are already cut, so this design  
detail doesn't add significantly to the work involved. Since the  
necklines are almost always concealed by drapery or women's veils,  
it's hard to know whether they bothered to shape the shoulders or  
neckline any further than this, but they wouldn't have needed to.  
Now the neckline stress is on a selvage and is pulling mostly on the  
bias over the shoulders, rather than with the grain, so the weave is  
less likely to separate. It stays in place, and the wrist-length  
front means you can continue to do work with your hands quite  
easily. (I've been wearing it around this morning since our heat is  
out.) If you turn it around, you can pull it over your head for a  
kind of hood. And there's
 at least one picture where a woman has thrown the long fronts of  
her cloak over her shoulders.
So, I imagine I'm not the first to think of this -- has this  
construction been tried and/or rejected by others?


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Re: [h-cost] What's on your Christmas wish list?

2011-11-06 Thread Kimiko Small
On Nov 5, 2011, at 12:57 PM, Lavolta Press wrote:

> Seventeenth-Century Women's Dress Patterns: Book 2 (release date also unclear)



I had read this book might be released in May of next year, so this is on my 
list for a late birthday present. It is also on my own wish list.

Most of my wish list books are now tending towards embroidery, as I've pretty 
much found all the period books I want. Well, except for the newest by the 
Tudor Tailor ladies that should be out soonish. It will be on the women's 
clothing of the early Henry VIII court. Oh, and the latest Italian stuff with 
Cosimo de Medici, but I don't do much on Italians yet, so it isn't quite on the 
wish list at this point.

Kimiko

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[h-cost] 10th/11th-century/early 12th-century "poncho" cloak

2011-11-06 Thread Lauren Walker
Hi,
I've been looking at the available drawings of 10th/11th century/early 12th 
century clothing in England--many of them done in the Byzantine art style Gale 
Owen-Crocker calls "fussy" in _Dress in Anglo-Saxon England_, which makes it 
hard to know what to take literally. But as a weaver I've always been skeptical 
of the idea that those cloaks that are longer and fuller in back than in front 
were made from a rectangle or oval with an off-center slit. It's an era when 
fulling and waulking were not sufficient to felt up a woollen enough to avoid 
having to finish cut edges; everyday clothing styles avoid horizontal seams 
because they introduced structural weakness, the weight of the garment pulling 
the weave apart at the seam. According to _Medieval Clothing Reconstructed_, 
even as late as the 14th century, raw edges on woollens were finished 
meticulously in a three-step process, possibly a belt-and-suspenders approach 
to preventing raveling even on relatively un-stressed edges. So!
  I just can't see cutting a slit with the grain of the fabric right where the 
whole weight of the garment is going to be pulling on the cut.
So I've been messing around with a coarse handwoven woollen from Fabric Mart  
after machine washing and drying it to full/felt a bit, and have come up with 
something that gives me the look of those cloaks. (I'm thinking like Emma of 
Normandy, but they are all over the available images except I can't find them 
this morning! Oh, here's one: 
http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/rhuddlan/images/970-aethelwold.html and here: 
http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/rhuddlan/images/97x-robert.html and here 
http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/rhuddlan/images/97x-boethius.html 
http://www.uvm.edu/~hag/rhuddlan/images/1000-asti-cotcleof11.html) If you 
assume that the loom-width was around 20" to 22", this can be done with only 
two, relatively short, raw edges to finish; and selvage for both neckline and 
hem. 2.5 yards gives me a calf-length back and wrist-length front. When it's 
sewn rather than safety-pinned I'll see if I can get a photo to post, along 
with a diagram. The main thing is to fold the piece so it's now 1.25 yard!
 s x the 22" loom width. Sew one selvage to itself from the cut edge to within 
about 10" of the fold. The seam is the center back, the unsewn part is the 
neck-hole, and you end up with a cone- shaped garment that drapes very much 
like the drawings. If you want to make a curve in the back hem, you're now 
cutting mostly edges that are already cut, so this design detail doesn't add 
significantly to the work involved. Since the necklines are almost always 
concealed by drapery or women's veils, it's hard to know whether they bothered 
to shape the shoulders or neckline any further than this, but they wouldn't 
have needed to. Now the neckline stress is on a selvage and is pulling mostly 
on the bias over the shoulders, rather than with the grain, so the weave is 
less likely to separate. It stays in place, and the wrist-length front means 
you can continue to do work with your hands quite easily. (I've been wearing it 
around this morning since our heat is out.) If you turn it around, !
 you can pull it over your head for a kind of hood. And there's!
  at least one picture where a woman has thrown the long fronts of her cloak 
over her shoulders. 
So, I imagine I'm not the first to think of this -- has this construction been 
tried and/or rejected by others? 
I have some ideas about the vexing thigh-bands, too, but I haven't done the 
doll-size experiments yet. AND I'm working on the soft triple pleats that recur 
on a lot of veils, but I haven't quite got them yet. But I do think I'm close 
on the poncho-cloak and would love to hear from others about it. 
Leofwyn Weaver, and/or
Lauren M. Walker
lauren.wal...@comcast.net



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Re: [h-cost] What's on your Christmas wish list?

2011-11-06 Thread Joan Jurancich

At 03:40 PM 11/5/2011, you wrote:
My list usually tends heavily toward books, too.  This year I'm 
planning to ask for Janet Arnold's Patterns of Fashion: 1660-1860 
(believe it or not, I've never even read it!), and a V&A book called 
19th Century Fashion in Detail that apparently has gorgeous photographs.


Emily


I have both books.  They are very useful. And, yes, "19th Century 
Fashion in Detail" do have beautiful, and often very close-up, 
photographs.  You will really enjoy them.



Joan Jurancich
joa...@surewest.net 



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