[h-cost] Movies, was: Knight's Tale
Plunkett and MacLean was an 18thC movie that used some modern music. On the one hand it was odd, but we expect background music in movies. What struck me as odd was that the movie was set mid-century (I think it said 1740 or 1750 on screen), and a fashion-forward character was dressed in 1790s style. -Carol ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movies, was: Knight's Tale
In a message dated 4/21/2006 6:48:17 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: What struck me as odd was that the movie was set mid-century (I think it said 1740 or 1750 on screen), and a fashion-forward character was dressed in 1790s style. ** Designers often use styles from the whole century all at once without following the time line. They seem to do this more in the 18th century than any other. Perhaps because the changes aren't a drastic as they are in the 19th century. Although, I can't tell you how many 1840s and 1850s dresses get used in Civil War epics! I once worked for an LA designer who mainly did TV. He and his assistant were snotty to us hayseeds [they thought] here in NC. His assistant with his nose in the air gave me a speech on how carefully they had researched and how the designer was a stickler for accuracy. Then he handed me to alter for the engenue: a wool plaid dress, closing CB with hooks & eyes, the bodice gathered a la verge at the deep CF point, horizontal decolatage, with longish manchions and long bias-cut tight sleeves. The skirt was cartridge pleated all the way round...even down and around the point. The film took place in 1863. Yeaha stickler for accuracy alright. [For those who's period is not the mid 1800s, all those details screamand I mean scream... 1840s] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movies, was: Knight's Tale
At 8:35 PM -0400 4/21/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Designers often use styles from the whole century all at once without following the time line. They seem to do this more in the 18th century than any other. I don't think they do it more in the 18th century than any other -- I think rather that the fashion time-span they squish together (rather than following the historical time line) in general increases the further removed from our own time period the historical setting is. So, for things set in the late 20th century, the fashions may compress a few years, for the early 20th century they might use styles from a decade or two, for the 19th century they might draw from several decades at once, for they 18th century the whole century, etc. And when the setting is medieval, they throw together styles spanning multiple centuries. There appears to be a similar dynamic when it comes to cultures -- the further back the setting, people tend to be happy to squish together styles from ever more culturally and geographically far-flung places. (Thus, for a movie set in a relatively narrow medieval time and place, you might see styles taken from half a millennium of time and culled from cultures half a world apart...) Perhaps because the changes aren't a drastic as they are in the 19th century. Although, I can't tell you how many 1840s and 1850s dresses get used in Civil War epics! I think it is more that the further back you go, the less people know and so care about the various distinctions. (And even if the costume designer knows, the audience is unlikely to.) A sort of the further away things are from their own experience -- in time or space -- the more it "all looks the same" to them effect. (Which also explains why those who _do_ learn all about a particular historical time/place don't think it all looks the same -- it's no longer far from their experience.) I once worked for an LA designer who mainly did TV. He and his assistant were snotty to us hayseeds [they thought] here in NC. His assistant with his nose in the air gave me a speech on how carefully they had researched and how the designer was a stickler for accuracy. Then he handed me to alter for the ... Yeaha stickler for accuracy alright. [For those who's period is not the mid 1800s, all those details screamand I mean scream... 1840s] The more I learn about the entertainment industry, the clearer it becomes that "accuracy" is more an advertising buzz-word (used to attract audiences) than something truly pursued. That is, it is far more important to persuasively _claim_ accuracy than to actually _be_ accurate. (I'm know there are exceptions among individuals who work in these industries -- but in the industry as a whole...) Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movies, was: Knight's Tale
I'm not now and never was a fan of the TV show "Friends," but it did yield one relevant cultural insight: One of the women was moving in with another one who loved antiques (Phoebe?). The new roommate (Monica?) bought a piece of furniture--an apothecary's chest, I think-- from Pottery Barn, only to learn that her roomie HATED Pottery Barn stuff, with its pseudo-antiquity. So Monica (?) pretended she had bought it at a flea/antiques market at a NYC location she couldn't recall. When asked what period the chest was from, she replied "Yore." I may have the characters wrong (we sometimes watch reruns when we're drifting off to sleep), but I think the dating of the chest was absolutely precise. Most people nowadays (and, I promise you, my college students included) think of time in only a few categories: the future, now, their parents' "day," and "Yore." For many Americans, "Yore" applies especially to anything before the American Revolution, and everything blends together into the look of Yore. That's why hennins, for example, seem to be appropriate headgear for The Merry Wives of Windsor?!?!?! etc. So, yes, I'm absolutely echoing what has already been said here: I just had to share what it's called. --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer On Apr 23, 2006, at 5:44 PM, Sharon L. Krossa wrote: At 8:35 PM -0400 4/21/06, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Designers often use styles from the whole century all at once without following the time line. They seem to do this more in the 18th century than any other. I don't think they do it more in the 18th century than any other -- I think rather that the fashion time-span they squish together (rather than following the historical time line) in general increases the further removed from our own time period the historical setting is. So, for things set in the late 20th century, the fashions may compress a few years, for the early 20th century they might use styles from a decade or two, for the 19th century they might draw from several decades at once, for they 18th century the whole century, etc. And when the setting is medieval, they throw together styles spanning multiple centuries. There appears to be a similar dynamic when it comes to cultures -- the further back the setting, people tend to be happy to squish together styles from ever more culturally and geographically far-flung places. (Thus, for a movie set in a relatively narrow medieval time and place, you might see styles taken from half a millennium of time and culled from cultures half a world apart...) Perhaps because the changes aren't a drastic as they are in the 19th century. Although, I can't tell you how many 1840s and 1850s dresses get used in Civil War epics! I think it is more that the further back you go, the less people know and so care about the various distinctions. (And even if the costume designer knows, the audience is unlikely to.) A sort of the further away things are from their own experience -- in time or space -- the more it "all looks the same" to them effect. (Which also explains why those who _do_ learn all about a particular historical time/place don't think it all looks the same -- it's no longer far from their experience.) I once worked for an LA designer who mainly did TV. He and his assistant were snotty to us hayseeds [they thought] here in NC. His assistant with his nose in the air gave me a speech on how carefully they had researched and how the designer was a stickler for accuracy. Then he handed me to alter for the ... Yeaha stickler for accuracy alright. [For those who's period is not the mid 1800s, all those details screamand I mean scream... 1840s] The more I learn about the entertainment industry, the clearer it becomes that "accuracy" is more an advertising buzz-word (used to attract audiences) than something truly pursued. That is, it is far more important to persuasively _claim_ accuracy than to actually _be_ accurate. (I'm know there are exceptions among individuals who work in these industries -- but in the industry as a whole...) Sharon -- Sharon Krossa, [EMAIL PROTECTED] Resources for Scottish history, names, clothing, language & more: Medieval Scotland - http://MedievalScotland.org/ ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movies, was: Knight's Tale
At 6:22 PM -0400 4/23/06, Ruth Anne Baumgartner wrote: ... everything blends together into the look of Yore. That's why hennins, for example, seem to be appropriate headgear for The Merry Wives of Windsor?!?!?! etc. Thank you for a very useful term! "Yore" it is. On Apr 23, 2006, at 5:44 PM, Sharon L. Krossa wrote: The more I learn about the entertainment industry, the clearer it becomes that "accuracy" is more an advertising buzz-word (used to attract audiences) than something truly pursued. That is, it is far more important to persuasively _claim_ accuracy than to actually _be_ accurate. (I'm know there are exceptions among individuals who work in these industries -- but in the industry as a whole...) Besides, it's a lot easier and cheaper to just *claim* it than to actually *do* even a half-decent job of it. At 6:50 PM -0700 4/21/06, Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: I agree- the leading lady was SO out of period. I kept thinking one hat looked more like it belonged in "Breakfast at Tiffany's". The costumes bothered me more than the music. "Leading Lady Syndrome" -- the Big Name Star playing the leading lady more or less gets to wear whatever she wants, even if that means it's wildly different from what everyone else is wearing. Often this means no corset, low necklines, clingy fabrics, modern hairstyles whatever _she_ thinks makes her look sexy. -- OChris Laning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] Movies, was: Knight's Tale
In a message dated 4/23/2006 6:17:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: but I think the dating of the chest was absolutely precise. Most people nowadays (and, I promise you, my college students included) think of time in only a few categories: the future, now, their parents' "day," and "Yore." For many Americans, "Yore" applies especially to anything before the American Revolution, ** Some of my fave examples of this was when I worked for a costumeas in masquerade and Halloween...shop. They were trying their best to break out into theatre and such, but...alas. Anyway, I'll never forget a blurb, in a catalogue, for a long full skirt: "Wear over hoopskirt for old-timey effect." Hahahaha! That became an inside joke for any dreadfully off costume. Another time, there was a couple who were going to a fancy dress party and were looking thru the slide show the shop had set up of couples wearing costumes they had for rent that went with each other. The "Napoleon and Josephine" couple flashed up and the woman exclaimed "Why there's Queen Elizabeth and her husband!" ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Movies, was: Knight's Tale
A friend and I once costumed "The Seagull". The director wanted it period (1904)and had an idea of what he wanted the women's costumes to look like. My friend and I brought in dress after dress. He kept rejecting them. Finally, he borrowed a couple of dresses from a friend of his, to show us. They were fancy 1830's ballgowns. My friend and I looked at each other and stopped asking him for his opinion. We just went ahead and made dresses appropriate to 1904. He loved them (and didn't understand how they were different from the stuff he'd brought in). -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 6:30 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movies, was: Knight's Tale In a message dated 4/23/2006 6:17:21 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: but I think the dating of the chest was absolutely precise. Most people nowadays (and, I promise you, my college students included) think of time in only a few categories: the future, now, their parents' "day," and "Yore." For many Americans, "Yore" applies especially to anything before the American Revolution, ** Some of my fave examples of this was when I worked for a costumeas in masquerade and Halloween...shop. They were trying their best to break out into theatre and such, but...alas. Anyway, I'll never forget a blurb, in a catalogue, for a long full skirt: "Wear over hoopskirt for old-timey effect." Hahahaha! That became an inside joke for any dreadfully off costume. Another time, there was a couple who were going to a fancy dress party and were looking thru the slide show the shop had set up of couples wearing costumes they had for rent that went with each other. The "Napoleon and Josephine" couple flashed up and the woman exclaimed "Why there's Queen Elizabeth and her husband!" ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] Movies, was: Knight's Tale
Remember Julie Christie's hair in "Dr. Zhivago"? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chris Laning Sent: Sunday, April 23, 2006 3:56 PM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] Movies, was: Knight's Tale At 6:22 PM -0400 4/23/06, Ruth Anne Baumgartner wrote: >... everything blends together into the look of Yore. That's why >hennins, for example, seem to be appropriate headgear for The Merry >Wives of Windsor?!?!?! etc. Thank you for a very useful term! "Yore" it is. On Apr 23, 2006, at 5:44 PM, Sharon L. Krossa wrote: >The more I learn about the entertainment industry, the clearer it >becomes that "accuracy" is more an advertising buzz-word (used to >attract audiences) than something truly pursued. That is, it is far >more important to persuasively _claim_ accuracy than to actually >_be_ accurate. (I'm know there are exceptions among individuals who >work in these industries -- but in the industry as a whole...) Besides, it's a lot easier and cheaper to just *claim* it than to actually *do* even a half-decent job of it. At 6:50 PM -0700 4/21/06, Sharon at Collierfam.com wrote: >I agree- the leading lady was SO out of period. I kept thinking one hat >looked more like it belonged in "Breakfast at Tiffany's". The costumes >bothered me more than the music. "Leading Lady Syndrome" -- the Big Name Star playing the leading lady more or less gets to wear whatever she wants, even if that means it's wildly different from what everyone else is wearing. Often this means no corset, low necklines, clingy fabrics, modern hairstyles whatever _she_ thinks makes her look sexy. -- OChris Laning <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> - Davis, California + http://paternoster-row.org - http://paternosters.blogspot.com ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
