Re: [h-cost] re: fine drawing?
<--- "michaela" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: < http://glittersweet.com <6 days of digests to go through... oh boy;) I feel for you - I neglected my email for the last 3 days, and am now working my way through 425-odd messages! 8-P Joannah ~*~ Practice random acts of kindness, and senseless acts of beauty. ~*~ _ Sluggy.Net: The Sluggy Freelance Community! ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] re: fine drawing?
> I do this at exactly this point, the lower end of the CB seam just above the pleat opening. > It has to be done from the outside. > assuming a vertical seam in the center of this diagram, the stitches would run >I_ > _I >I_ > _I > I have no idea what this kind of stitching is called, but if somebody says "Yes, I bet that's fine-drawing," I'll willingly call it that! I have seen it refered to as ladder stitch. I use it quite often, and was my first though when the initial instructions were to work from the outside. It's used to sew teddy bears and the like after you have stuffed them;) I also used it to join tabs to my doublet bodice. And sleeves to bodices if made up seperately;) michaela de bruce http://glittersweet.com 6 days of digests to go through... oh boy;) -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.375 / Virus Database: 267.15.3/254 - Release Date: 8/02/2006 ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] re: fine drawing
>I perhaps didnt realise wich part of the suit you have read that fine >drawing should be used. >Is it for the slash you make at the top of the back vent opening, to make an >extra pleat? I'm not sure either. All it says is "the back". Rather vague. >Then she perhaps is meaning that this seam should be very >accurately made with tiny stitches, to hold well, as there only is very >little seam allowance here. Waugh is quoting, sometimes paraphrasing, a mid-18th c tailor's manual. Fine drawing doesnt appear to be small stitches or reinforcement. Waugh/Garsault usually says buckram and or interlining if that's what she/he means. it may well be worth the original questioner's time to find Garsault's book. Perhaps he defines the term. Lalah's comment on ever so slight gather stitches may make sense at this slash area. I didnt use gathers as the tops of the pleats are supposed to lie very flat. The slash (hidden by folding pleats to the inside where it becomes the tiniest of holes) is concealed by a fancy button. I have a different crazy idea: suppose Waugh is talking about the center back seam, not the skirt vent. If you backstitches the seam by hand and pressed it open, the the CB, which takes alot of stress, would only be held by 1 line of stitches. It would be weak. If she means, press the CB seam to the right, then blind stitch or catch stitch the 3 layers (garment & 2 seam allowances) then there is an element of reinforcement. Seems like it would make the seam oddly stiff. This is not my favorite interpretation of the p88 paragraph. I chose to make the interlining strong and capable of taking all the stress of wearing. >... For my gustavian suit, wich has this slash and >extra pleat, i whipstitched the parts together, with very fine stitches. It >perhaps is one of the most difficult places on a coat to make. Very very true! I covered the slashed edges with the teensiest band of silk organza to contain those stray silk satin fibres of the garment fabric. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] re: fine drawing?
Speaking in ignorance except as a costumer who worries about vulnerable seam-ends If "fine drawing" doesn't refer to what Cynthia describes (and for costumes in this general period I have done those catch-stiches to stabilize the pleat), then... it might be a reinforcing stitching buried in the seam crease. I do this at exactly this point, the lower end of the CB seam just above the pleat opening. It has to be done from the outside. I take a small running stitch (small but not the same length as the stitching already in the seam because doubling the thread thickness in the stitching holes would be counterproductive), alternating stitch placement from one side of the seam to the other. I've never tried an AASCI drawing before, but-- assuming a vertical seam in the center of this diagram, the stitches would run I_ _I I_ _I with the vertical part of the stitch inside the seam turnback and the horizontal part bridging the seam. Even if this stitch is done with double thread (which I use) it is virtually invisible once pulled (drawn) snug, but it adds good reinforcement to the vulnerable base of the seam, which can subjected to stress if the wearer sits wrong or if the fit of the body of the jacket is close-fitting. And as the quoted directions suggest, this stitching has to be done from the open end of the seam to the closed end so it doesn't distort the lie of the seam. I have no idea what this kind of stitching is called, but if somebody says "Yes, I bet that's fine-drawing," I'll willingly call it that! --Ruth Anne Baumgartner scholar gypsy and amateur costumer -Original Message- >From: Cin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Sent: Feb 8, 2006 2:19 PM >To: h-cost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: [h-cost] re: fine drawing? > >> I'm trying to translate instructions from _The Cut of Men's Clothes_ for >> the assembly of an 18th century coat. (page 88 of the recent hardcover >> edition) >> >> "The backs are joined together by backstitching on the wrong side and then >> fine-drawing on the right, working from the skirt opening upwards." > >Dawn, Bjarne, > >I assumed that norah Waugh was using modern (possibly tailor's) >terminology to describe what she saw. The expression wasnt in my >jargon, either. > >I took it to mean blind catch stitching. I got an mid-19thc mans >frock coat in my collection out and examined it. (Oldest relevant >thing I have.) It has that same small inserted bit i the skirting, >near the CB. The amount of skirting is obvious much less than the >1750s. The tailor of this 19th c jacket, formed the pleat, then, >working from the inside, did a catch-stitch abt 1/2 to 1 cm from the >fold to permanently shape the pleat. (Cant quite tell without ripping >the lining.) >Cut of Men's Clothes says to so this working from the hem towards the >waist. I my experiments, I discovered that doing so keeps the hang in >the right spot as errors magnify going hem-wards. >Here's an amazingly bad ASCII drawing: > > inside of garment > /--cb--\ right side pleat > catch stitches at this point ^\ / > >- > > outside of garment, viewer would be here > >Clear as mud? > >Originally, I thought it might be tailor's jargon for a french seam, >but, as I had cut the jacket, the skirt almost-CB seam was hidden >behind the pleats. > >Why dont you ask the Savile Row guy who runs to the cutting & >tailoring blog? Post the answer for us, too. >--cin >Cynthia Barnes >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > >___ >h-costume mailing list >h-costume@mail.indra.com >http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] re: fine drawing?
I'm trying to translate instructions from _The Cut of Men's Clothes_ for the assembly of an 18th century coat. (page 88 of the recent hardcover edition) "The backs are joined together by backstitching on the wrong side and then fine-drawing on the right, working from the skirt opening upwards." The only definitions to fine-drawing that I can find are these: To repair a garment by invisible mending Fine-draw: To sew or close up, as a rent or seam, so delicately that joining cannot be noticed. ... to mend (torn edges) by drawing together with invisible stitches. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
[h-cost] re: fine drawing?
> I'm trying to translate instructions from _The Cut of Men's Clothes_ for > the assembly of an 18th century coat. (page 88 of the recent hardcover > edition) > > "The backs are joined together by backstitching on the wrong side and then > fine-drawing on the right, working from the skirt opening upwards." Dawn, Bjarne, I assumed that norah Waugh was using modern (possibly tailor's) terminology to describe what she saw. The expression wasnt in my jargon, either. I took it to mean blind catch stitching. I got an mid-19thc mans frock coat in my collection out and examined it. (Oldest relevant thing I have.) It has that same small inserted bit i the skirting, near the CB. The amount of skirting is obvious much less than the 1750s. The tailor of this 19th c jacket, formed the pleat, then, working from the inside, did a catch-stitch abt 1/2 to 1 cm from the fold to permanently shape the pleat. (Cant quite tell without ripping the lining.) Cut of Men's Clothes says to so this working from the hem towards the waist. I my experiments, I discovered that doing so keeps the hang in the right spot as errors magnify going hem-wards. Here's an amazingly bad ASCII drawing: inside of garment /--cb--\ right side pleat catch stitches at this point ^\ / - outside of garment, viewer would be here Clear as mud? Originally, I thought it might be tailor's jargon for a french seam, but, as I had cut the jacket, the skirt almost-CB seam was hidden behind the pleats. Why dont you ask the Savile Row guy who runs to the cutting & tailoring blog? Post the answer for us, too. --cin Cynthia Barnes [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
