RE: [h-cost] is this based on a real portrait?
I see. Now the question is, is the drop waist only found on day dresses or have you found them with ball gowns or evening gowns? And was the drop waist in the prints ever made? Here is some extant gowns 1800s - 1839 http://www.demodecouture.com/realvict/1800s.html I have not gone through them all but from the looks of things, the natural waistline was the common level for 1830s. -Original Message- some late 1830s plates actually do show a dropped waist like that pattern e.g. http://www.bibliothequedesartsdecoratifs.com/maciet2/M5053MA_214X18X/Lec/M50 53MA_214X18X00030_L.jpg (the bottom right corner). Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] is this based on a real portrait?
thanks everyone for the help, I decided to buy the gold fabric I had my eye on even if Queen Victoria wasn't painted in gold. Although I wasn't actually planning on using this pattern (I already have a 1860s ballgown pattern that I know fits me so I'll just adapt the point to a more 1840s style) some late 1830s plates actually do show a dropped waist like that pattern e.g. http://www.bibliothequedesartsdecoratifs.com/maciet2/M5053MA_214X18X/Lec/M5053MA_214X18X00030_L.jpg (the bottom right corner). And I remember the portrait of Elizabeth II you're talking about, a copy of it was hung in my Girl Guides hall. Elizabeth - Original Message - From: "otsisto" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Thursday, December 20, 2007 4:00 AM Subject: RE: [h-cost] is this based on a real portrait? I have seen a similar style worn by someone portraying QV but I do not recall any of her portraits having this style. Most gowns that she worn before she became a widow had some sort of lace on it or ruffle. Do note that the pattern has the waistline to low. Actually I believe that Queen Elizabeth II wore something like this gown in her early years. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] is this based on a real portrait?
In the book, Victorian and Edwardian Fashion, by Alison Gernsheim, there is a photo of a woman in a dress with a very similar neckline. It is dated 1845. (plate 14, if you have the book) -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of LLOYD MITCHELL Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 11:08 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: Re: [h-cost] is this based on a real portrait? My take on this is that it was taken from the V&A recent film and not from life. I do not believe that there are not many portrait pictures done of Victoria on canvas. Since she enters history at the beginning of the photographic method of capturing likenesses, most of what we know of her can be documented on film (or tintype, dagaeru. and etc. The comment made re the waistline setting is right-on. Most interpretations of mid 19th century clothing for women do not have the body proportion of bodice and skirt in line with the aesthetic of that period. Kathleen - Original Message - From: "Abel, Cynthia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 12:06 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] is this based on a real portrait? I believe it is based on one; check out any formal portrait of the 1840's-1850's of Queen Victoria in evening dress, because the neckline looks evening. The Butterick pattern looks more like an interpretation of the 1840's than 1850's. You might have luck in finding pictures of Queen Victoria in such dress made when she and Prince Albert made a state visit to France. I don't know about gold, but I think her formal coronation gown was gold. Cindy Abel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of otsisto Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:01 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] is this based on a real portrait? I have seen a similar style worn by someone portraying QV but I do not recall any of her portraits having this style. Most gowns that she worn before she became a widow had some sort of lace on it or ruffle. Do note that the pattern has the waistline to low. Actually I believe that Queen Elizabeth II wore something like this gown in her early years. QV, age 24 close http://www.scholars.nus.edu.sg/victorian/painting/victoria/winter3.jpg Victorian dresses http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=3&IEN=1805 http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=2&I=881 http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=2&I=170 http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=2&I=140 http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_500.htm http://www.antiquedress.com/item9668.htm -Original Message- I've been looking at the cover photo on my copy of Butterick 3713 http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2348/2119647295_6faec963f3_o.jpg and I've always thought that this was based on a real portrait or image of Queen Victoria, but I can't find a portrait of Queen Victoria that looks like this or even a portrait of Queen Victoria in Gold, can anyone else think of a real Victorian image this might be based on? thanks Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] is this based on a real portrait?
My take on this is that it was taken from the V&A recent film and not from life. I do not believe that there are not many portrait pictures done of Victoria on canvas. Since she enters history at the beginning of the photographic method of capturing likenesses, most of what we know of her can be documented on film (or tintype, dagaeru. and etc. The comment made re the waistline setting is right-on. Most interpretations of mid 19th century clothing for women do not have the body proportion of bodice and skirt in line with the aesthetic of that period. Kathleen - Original Message - From: "Abel, Cynthia" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Historical Costume" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Tuesday, December 18, 2007 12:06 PM Subject: RE: [h-cost] is this based on a real portrait? I believe it is based on one; check out any formal portrait of the 1840's-1850's of Queen Victoria in evening dress, because the neckline looks evening. The Butterick pattern looks more like an interpretation of the 1840's than 1850's. You might have luck in finding pictures of Queen Victoria in such dress made when she and Prince Albert made a state visit to France. I don't know about gold, but I think her formal coronation gown was gold. Cindy Abel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of otsisto Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:01 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] is this based on a real portrait? I have seen a similar style worn by someone portraying QV but I do not recall any of her portraits having this style. Most gowns that she worn before she became a widow had some sort of lace on it or ruffle. Do note that the pattern has the waistline to low. Actually I believe that Queen Elizabeth II wore something like this gown in her early years. QV, age 24 close http://www.scholars.nus.edu.sg/victorian/painting/victoria/winter3.jpg Victorian dresses http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=3&IEN=1805 http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=2&I=881 http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=2&I=170 http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=2&I=140 http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_500.htm http://www.antiquedress.com/item9668.htm -Original Message- I've been looking at the cover photo on my copy of Butterick 3713 http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2348/2119647295_6faec963f3_o.jpg and I've always thought that this was based on a real portrait or image of Queen Victoria, but I can't find a portrait of Queen Victoria that looks like this or even a portrait of Queen Victoria in Gold, can anyone else think of a real Victorian image this might be based on? thanks Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] is this based on a real portrait?
I believe it is based on one; check out any formal portrait of the 1840's-1850's of Queen Victoria in evening dress, because the neckline looks evening. The Butterick pattern looks more like an interpretation of the 1840's than 1850's. You might have luck in finding pictures of Queen Victoria in such dress made when she and Prince Albert made a state visit to France. I don't know about gold, but I think her formal coronation gown was gold. Cindy Abel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of otsisto Sent: Wednesday, December 19, 2007 11:01 AM To: Historical Costume Subject: RE: [h-cost] is this based on a real portrait? I have seen a similar style worn by someone portraying QV but I do not recall any of her portraits having this style. Most gowns that she worn before she became a widow had some sort of lace on it or ruffle. Do note that the pattern has the waistline to low. Actually I believe that Queen Elizabeth II wore something like this gown in her early years. QV, age 24 close http://www.scholars.nus.edu.sg/victorian/painting/victoria/winter3.jpg Victorian dresses http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=3&IEN=1805 http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=2&I=881 http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=2&I=170 http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=2&I=140 http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_500.htm http://www.antiquedress.com/item9668.htm -Original Message- I've been looking at the cover photo on my copy of Butterick 3713 http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2348/2119647295_6faec963f3_o.jpg and I've always thought that this was based on a real portrait or image of Queen Victoria, but I can't find a portrait of Queen Victoria that looks like this or even a portrait of Queen Victoria in Gold, can anyone else think of a real Victorian image this might be based on? thanks Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
RE: [h-cost] is this based on a real portrait?
I have seen a similar style worn by someone portraying QV but I do not recall any of her portraits having this style. Most gowns that she worn before she became a widow had some sort of lace on it or ruffle. Do note that the pattern has the waistline to low. Actually I believe that Queen Elizabeth II wore something like this gown in her early years. QV, age 24 close http://www.scholars.nus.edu.sg/victorian/painting/victoria/winter3.jpg Victorian dresses http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=3&IEN=1805 http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=2&I=881 http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=2&I=170 http://www.trousseau.net/trousseau2.asp?P=2&I=140 http://www.vintagetextile.com/new_page_500.htm http://www.antiquedress.com/item9668.htm -Original Message- I've been looking at the cover photo on my copy of Butterick 3713 http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2348/2119647295_6faec963f3_o.jpg and I've always thought that this was based on a real portrait or image of Queen Victoria, but I can't find a portrait of Queen Victoria that looks like this or even a portrait of Queen Victoria in Gold, can anyone else think of a real Victorian image this might be based on? thanks Elizabeth ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume