Re: [h-cost] split drawers
Which is why I love the cage crinoline so much more than a regular crinoline. That doesn't happen. It folds nicely. :) I bet they felt the same! Teena From: WorkroomButtons.com westvillagedrap...@yahoo.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Thursday, September 15, 2011 3:06 AM Subject: Re: [h-cost] split drawers Ah... that makes perfect sense. When she was not quite 12, my daughter was a jr. docent in a hoop skirt. Let's just say sitting down, um... modestly was a challenge. I had forgotten all about that experience! Dede --- On Wed, 9/14/11, Ann Catelli elvestoor...@yahoo.com wrote: If you have a lampshade slightly loose on its harp, press down on one side. The other side goes Flying up. The crinoline does the same thing, if not managed carefully. Even the most ladylike of persons might fall. Drawers are definitely needed. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
Okay, dumb question, but... why did they need drawers at all? Chemise, layers of petticoats, and long skirts -- everything totally obscured, so why bother with drawers? Dede O'Hair --- On Wed, 9/14/11, Kim Baird kba...@cableone.net wrote: Victorian women NEEDED split drawers. They wore a long chemise over the top of the drawers, and a corset laced up tightly on top of that, so the only way to drop a penny was to have the drawers split. You just couldn't get at them to pull them down from the waist. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
You'll find drawers starting to creep into women's clothing starting in the 1840's and 50's. They really really started to become common when women started to wear cage crinolines in the later 1850's. With crinoline there were suddenly not as many layers right next to the body (nothing but the chemise and a single petticoat) and women probably started wearing them for modesty and comfort. By the time the crinoline fell from fashion they had become typical and women just continued to wear them. Maggie Halberg -Original Message- From: WorkroomButtons.com westvillagedrap...@yahoo.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:36 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] split drawers Okay, dumb question, but... why did they need drawers at all? Chemise, layers of petticoats, and long skirts -- everything totally obscured, so why bother with drawers? Dede O'Hair --- On Wed, 9/14/11, Kim Baird kba...@cableone.net wrote: Victorian women NEEDED split drawers. They wore a long chemise over the top of the drawers, and a corset laced up tightly on top of that, so the only way to drop a penny was to have the drawers split. You just couldn't get at them to pull them down from the waist. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
At 12:59 PM 9/14/2011, you wrote: Victorian women NEEDED split drawers. They wore a long chemise over the top of the drawers, and a corset laced up tightly on top of that, so the only way to drop a penny was to have the drawers split. You just couldn't get at them to pull them down from the waist. Kim That's not necessarily so. (Gentlemen, please delete this message, only the ladies should read it.) When in my 1840s outfit for Sutter's Fort, I simply do not wear any bifurcated garments. With 5 layers (shift, 3 petticoats, and dress) between me and the outside world (and no inclination to do cartwheels), my modesty is safe. I find split drawers to be very uncomfortable as they never fit properly and caused me to get badly chaffed. So all I need to do is pick up all the layers and take care of business. Of course, later in the 19th century fashions were different, but until the cage crinoline, drawers were not necessary for modesty. Joan Jurancich joa...@surewest.net ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
-Original Message- At 12:59 PM 9/14/2011, you wrote: Victorian women NEEDED split drawers. They wore a long chemise over the top of the drawers, and a corset laced up tightly on top of that, so the only way to drop a penny was to have the drawers split. You just couldn't get at them to pull them down from the waist. Kim That's not necessarily so. (Gentlemen, please delete this message, only the ladies should read it.) When in my 1840s outfit for Sutter's Fort, I simply do not wear any bifurcated garments. With 5 layers (shift, 3 petticoats, and dress) between me and the outside world (and no inclination to do cartwheels), my modesty is safe. I find split drawers to be very uncomfortable as they never fit properly and caused me to get badly chaffed. So all I need to do is pick up all the layers and take care of business. Of course, later in the 19th century fashions were different, but until the cage crinoline, drawers were not necessary for modesty. Joan Jurancich joa...@surewest.net I think she was saying accessability and not modesty. Your drawers is sometime caught up in the corset making it difficut to drop the drawers. And like corsets, if made right should fit comfortably. De ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
You can find drawers in the late 1500s and forward. For the ladies with meat on their thighs it is a chaffing matter. For most it is underwear. De -Original Message- You'll find drawers starting to creep into women's clothing starting in the 1840's and 50's. They really really started to become common when women started to wear cage crinolines in the later 1850's. With crinoline there were suddenly not as many layers right next to the body (nothing but the chemise and a single petticoat) and women probably started wearing them for modesty and comfort. By the time the crinoline fell from fashion they had become typical and women just continued to wear them. Maggie Halberg -Original Message- From: WorkroomButtons.com westvillagedrap...@yahoo.com To: Historical Costume h-cost...@indra.com Sent: Wed, Sep 14, 2011 4:36 pm Subject: Re: [h-cost] split drawers Okay, dumb question, but... why did they need drawers at all? Chemise, layers of petticoats, and long skirts -- everything totally obscured, so why bother with drawers? Dede O'Hair --- On Wed, 9/14/11, Kim Baird kba...@cableone.net wrote: Victorian women NEEDED split drawers. They wore a long chemise over the top of the drawers, and a corset laced up tightly on top of that, so the only way to drop a penny was to have the drawers split. You just couldn't get at them to pull them down from the waist. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
We should keep in mind that our definition of modesty would differ greatly from their definition of modesty. Also, what we consider uncomfortable, because we don't do it / wear it all the time, was not necessarily uncomfortable to them, because they grew up dressing that way, there was no alternative. I was in the train station the other day waiting for my train, and a woman came in wearing a cotton sundress, about 5-6 above her knees. Her only undergarments (assuming here) were her knickers. Today she would be considered covered and decent, in the 1800s she would be considered nekked. We can't help but apply our 21st century mindset to everything we do, even dressing 18th or 19th century or earlier. Cactus way to drop a penny was to have the drawers split. You just couldn't get at them to pull them down from the waist. Kim That's not necessarily so. When in my 1840s outfit for Sutter's Fort, I simply do not wear any bifurcated garments. With 5 layers (shift, 3 petticoats, and dress) between me and the outside world (and no inclination to do cartwheels), my modesty is safe. I find split drawers to be very uncomfortable as they never fit properly and caused me to get badly chaffed. So all I need to do is pick up all the layers and take care of business. Joan Jurancich joa...@surewest.net ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
Unfortunately, I now completely understand why wearing split drawers would be desirable. Dede --- On Wed, 9/14/11, otsisto otsi...@socket.net wrote: For the ladies with meat on their thighs it is a chaffing matter. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
Dear Dede-- If you have a lampshade slightly loose on its harp, press down on one side. The other side goes Flying up. The crinoline does the same thing, if not managed carefully. Even the most ladylike of persons might fall. Drawers are definitely needed. Also, they were in fashion and had been coming into fashion since somewhere around 1800. Trowsers (sic) may be found in the Workwoman's Guide (1840 edition online here: http://www.archive.org/details/workwomansguide00workgoog); my copy is after an 1838 edition, as reprinted by Old Sturbridge Village, so some sort of bifurcated undergarment for women was being constructed at that point. This book is not aimed a fashion-forward women, but women trying to clothe their families or to make clothes as a charitable act. Ann in CT why did they need drawers at all? Chemise, layers of petticoats, and long skirts -- everything totally obscured, so why bother with drawers? Dede O'Hair --- On Wed, 9/14/11, Kim Baird kba...@cableone.net wrote: Victorian women NEEDED split drawers. They wore a long chemise over the top of the drawers, and a corset laced up tightly on top of that, so the only way to drop a penny was to have the drawers split. You just couldn't get at them to pull them down from the waist. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
Re: [h-cost] split drawers
Ah... that makes perfect sense. When she was not quite 12, my daughter was a jr. docent in a hoop skirt. Let's just say sitting down, um... modestly was a challenge. I had forgotten all about that experience! Dede --- On Wed, 9/14/11, Ann Catelli elvestoor...@yahoo.com wrote: If you have a lampshade slightly loose on its harp, press down on one side. The other side goes Flying up. The crinoline does the same thing, if not managed carefully. Even the most ladylike of persons might fall. Drawers are definitely needed. ___ h-costume mailing list h-costume@mail.indra.com http://mail.indra.com/mailman/listinfo/h-costume
