Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
I sell laptops. Refurbished mainly, but some new. If you wanted to buy one with whatever flavour of LInux I would happily install it pre-purchase. Otherwise if you would like to buy one with no system, I would install it for you, and probably show you. =o) Hope this helps Not putting my business name in - this is not for that. Pete On 3 November 2016 at 17:58, Peter Alefounder via Hampshire < hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote: > What is the best way to acquire a laptop running Linux these > days? Various web searches haven't helped me much. Some sites say > it's better to get one running Windows, then install Linux. > However, I get the impression that it can be difficult to have > all the hardware working properly, because of a lack of Linux > drivers. Other web sites list various laptops with Linux, but > they turn out to be either extremely expensive, or very low-end, > or currently out of stock. It appears that building one is not > feasible as, unlike desktop machines, hardware is not standard. > > I understand that people do have laptops running Linux, so how is > it done? I would be grateful for any advice. > > Peter Alefounder. > > -- > Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk > Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire > LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk > -- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
Thanks to all. Plenty of advice there, not all consistent, but it's good to have a range of views! I will investigate entroware, minifree and PC Specialist. I'm not really sure exactly what I want as yet - something to act as a backup for a desktop system and that I can take with me when away from home. Doesn't have to be particularly fast, I'm not bothered about games. Peter Alefounder. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
On Friday 04 November 2016 16:24:31 Thomas Kluyver via Hampshire wrote: > On Fri, Nov 4, 2016, at 09:03 AM, Bob Dunlop via Hampshire wrote: > > Avoid modern Lenovo [1]. Although they've reluctantly issued a BIOS > > fix it sounds like it a performance hit. > > Lenovo's Thinkpad line is still mostly pretty good with Linux, at least > when I was looking last year. Those business-oriented systems seem to be > developed separately to the consumer-grade ones which get in the news > for the wrong reasons. The business lines are more expensive, but you do > get a better built system. > > Is anyone interested in distilling the kind of info we're discussing > into a nice 'how to buy a computer for Linux' website? Is there already > such a site? I did one quick search and found posts like these: > http://www.howtogeek.com/185286/how-to-buy-a-laptop-for-linux/ > http://www.ebay.com/gds/Linux-Laptop-Buying-Guide-/1000177741943/g.html > > ...but no nice friendly overview site. Maybe this is something we could > discuss/work on at a future PLUG meeting. > > Thomas :-) Good idea! I shall include the PLUG list in this reply. (Hence the full quote above.) Lisi I did. But it got misdirected somehow to me not to here. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
On 2016-11-04 12:24, Thomas Kluyver via Hampshire wrote: On Fri, Nov 4, 2016, at 09:03 AM, Bob Dunlop via Hampshire wrote: Avoid modern Lenovo [1]. Although they've reluctantly issued a BIOS fix it sounds like it a performance hit. Lenovo's Thinkpad line is still mostly pretty good with Linux, at least when I was looking last year. Those business-oriented systems seem to be developed separately to the consumer-grade ones which get in the news for the wrong reasons. The business lines are more expensive, but you do get a better built system. Is anyone interested in distilling the kind of info we're discussing into a nice 'how to buy a computer for Linux' website? Is there already such a site? I did one quick search and found posts like these: http://www.howtogeek.com/185286/how-to-buy-a-laptop-for-linux/ http://www.ebay.com/gds/Linux-Laptop-Buying-Guide-/1000177741943/g.html ...but no nice friendly overview site. Maybe this is something we could discuss/work on at a future PLUG meeting. Thomas One relatively inexpensive alternative is to use a Chromebook and install Crouton. Intel based Chrome devices have a wider support compared to ARM Chrome devices. Arch and Ubuntu -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
On Fri, Nov 4, 2016, at 09:03 AM, Bob Dunlop via Hampshire wrote: > Avoid modern Lenovo [1]. Although they've reluctantly issued a BIOS > fix it sounds like it a performance hit. Lenovo's Thinkpad line is still mostly pretty good with Linux, at least when I was looking last year. Those business-oriented systems seem to be developed separately to the consumer-grade ones which get in the news for the wrong reasons. The business lines are more expensive, but you do get a better built system. Is anyone interested in distilling the kind of info we're discussing into a nice 'how to buy a computer for Linux' website? Is there already such a site? I did one quick search and found posts like these: http://www.howtogeek.com/185286/how-to-buy-a-laptop-for-linux/ http://www.ebay.com/gds/Linux-Laptop-Buying-Guide-/1000177741943/g.html ...but no nice friendly overview site. Maybe this is something we could discuss/work on at a future PLUG meeting. Thomas -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
I've been very pleased with my PC Specialist laptop. For other laptop (and other hardware) Novatech in Portsmouth has been very useful as you can purchase PCs and laptops without preinstalled Windows, so you don't have to pay for an OS that you immediately replace with another. Andy > +1 from me for PC Specialist; I bought both a laptop (pre-UEFI) and a > desktop (UEFI) PC from them, and I had no problem at all installing > Linux (Mint) on them. They also give you the capability to tailor the > basic specification (choice of CPU, RAM, HDD/SSD, optical drive, ...) > according to your desire for power vs cost. > > Ian > > -- > Ian Park > email: i.d.c.p...@ntlworld.com > -- > > On 04/11/16 09:18, Stephen Nelson-Smith via Hampshire wrote: >> >> >> On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Peter Alefounder via Hampshire >> mailto:hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk>> >> wrote: >> >> What is the best way to acquire a laptop running Linux these >> days? >> >> >> My friend has had great success with https://minifree.org/ -- >> especially if you're interested in the freedom (or otherwise) of the >> lower level features of the system. >> >> S. >> >> > > > -- > Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk > Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire > LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk > -- > > -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
+1 from me for PC Specialist; I bought both a laptop (pre-UEFI) and a desktop (UEFI) PC from them, and I had no problem at all installing Linux (Mint) on them. They also give you the capability to tailor the basic specification (choice of CPU, RAM, HDD/SSD, optical drive, ...) according to your desire for power vs cost. Ian -- Ian Park email: i.d.c.p...@ntlworld.com -- On 04/11/16 09:18, Stephen Nelson-Smith via Hampshire wrote: On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Peter Alefounder via Hampshire mailto:hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk>> wrote: What is the best way to acquire a laptop running Linux these days? My friend has had great success with https://minifree.org/ -- especially if you're interested in the freedom (or otherwise) of the lower level features of the system. S. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
On Thu, Nov 3, 2016 at 5:58 PM, Peter Alefounder via Hampshire < hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote: > What is the best way to acquire a laptop running Linux these > days? My friend has had great success with https://minifree.org/ -- especially if you're interested in the freedom (or otherwise) of the lower level features of the system. S. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
Hi, On Thu, Nov 03 at 05:58, Peter Alefounder via Hampshire wrote: > I understand that people do have laptops running Linux, so how is > it done? I would be grateful for any advice. I've has a couple of ancient laptops running linux in my time and my current EEE-PC N900 is coming to the end of it's useful life so I've been looking at the market. Not made a purchase decision yet. Goggling about is interesting. A few things I think I've spotted. Avoid modern Lenovo [1]. Although they've reluctantly issued a BIOS fix it sounds like it a performance hit. "It has Ubuntu installed" does not guarantee good compatability with other versions of linux or even Ubuntu upgrades. Several of the expensive Dell systems came with extensive binary blob drivers for things like touch screen and even Wifi operation. I will NOT buy a Windows PC and then install linux over the top. I have no wish to contribute to the coffers of an immoral organisation. As an aside, does anyone understand how they can justify a 22% UK price hike when they don't import anything material ? If you are going cheap and cheerful second hand, just google for compatability. Check the teardown sites for how easy it might be to change the wifi module for a linux compatable one. This used to be a common stumbling point but usually easy to swap the hardware. Pesonally I'm currently leaning towards an Entroware Orion [2]. Must get off my backside and email them about any binary blobs etc. [1] http://www.theregister.co.uk/2016/09/21/lenovo_denies_plot_with_microsoft_to_block_linux_installs/ [2] https://www.entroware.com/store/laptops/orion -- Bob Dunlop My car has one Microsoft component, guess which part keeps crashing -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
On 3 November 2016 at 17:58, Peter Alefounder via Hampshire < hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote: > What is the best way to acquire a laptop running Linux these > days? Various web searches haven't helped me much. Some sites say > it's better to get one running Windows, then install Linux. > However, I get the impression that it can be difficult to have > all the hardware working properly, because of a lack of Linux > drivers. Other web sites list various laptops with Linux, but > they turn out to be either extremely expensive, or very low-end, > or currently out of stock. It appears that building one is not > feasible as, unlike desktop machines, hardware is not standard. > > I understand that people do have laptops running Linux, so how is > it done? I would be grateful for any advice. > > Peter Alefounder. > Pretty much everything works in Linux now days, so the problems with drivers should have mostly disappeared now. If you are really caucious, get a USB stick or CD with the latest Ubuntu on it. Find a friend or a shop with the Laptop your are interestest in, that will let you boot the USB Stick or CD into Ubuntu, see it actually working. Things to check are: 1) Does it boot up and display the desktop. 2) Does the wifi work and does it see access points. 3) Note the output (take a pic of the screen with your phone) of "lspci -n" and "lspci" and then google to check all the devices are supported. Some manufactures do actually sell laptops with Linux on them, I think Dell sell some, but in general, get any laptop, and then install Linux over the top of Windows. (I removed the HDD with windows on it, and replaced it with an SSD with Linux on for my laptop) -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
On Thursday 03 Nov 2016 17:58:26 Peter Alefounder via Hampshire wrote: > What is the best way to acquire a laptop running Linux these > days? Various web searches haven't helped me much. https://www.entroware.com/store/laptops I haven't used them, but they've been mentioned on the Ubuntu Podcast a few times. -- Be seeing you,Games: http://www.glendale.org.uk/ Sam. Posts: http://www.google.com/+SamuelPenn -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
System76 do a range of laptops with Ubuntu; they're US based, but ship internationally: https://system76.com/laptops Dell sell a few laptops with Ubuntu installed. The UK site usually seems to say they're unavailable, but maybe a phone call would have better results. The XPS 13 in particular is a pretty nice laptop. http://www.dell.com/learn/uk/en/ukbsdt1/campaigns/dell-linux-ubuntu-en?c=uk&l=en&s=bsd I think people mostly still buy Windows laptops and install Linux themselves. It's generally pretty smooth, but it's worth planning before you buy. Things I know to look out for: - Stick to Intel graphics unless you're keen to play games on it. Nvidia and AMD graphics do mostly work OK with their proprietary drivers, but it's a bit of extra hassle. - Try to find out what wifi chipset it uses and check what Linux support is like. Again, you can make just about anything work with some fiddling, but some are easier than others. Thomas On Thu, Nov 3, 2016, at 05:58 PM, Peter Alefounder via Hampshire wrote: > What is the best way to acquire a laptop running Linux these > days? Various web searches haven't helped me much. Some sites say > it's better to get one running Windows, then install Linux. > However, I get the impression that it can be difficult to have > all the hardware working properly, because of a lack of Linux > drivers. Other web sites list various laptops with Linux, but > they turn out to be either extremely expensive, or very low-end, > or currently out of stock. It appears that building one is not > feasible as, unlike desktop machines, hardware is not standard. > > I understand that people do have laptops running Linux, so how is > it done? I would be grateful for any advice. > > Peter Alefounder. > > -- > Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk > Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire > LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk > -- -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
Over the years, I have owned a number of notebook computers, mostly acquired from E-Bay or similar. I have four still. I have never once experienced any but the most trivial difficulties installing any Linux distro. I'm mystified by the 'lack of Linux drivers' and other such stories I hear from time to time. Chris On 3 November 2016 at 18:31, Jonathan Hudson via Hampshire < hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote: > On Thu, 3 Nov 2016 17:58:26 + (UTC), Peter Alefounder via Hampshire > wrote: > > >What is the best way to acquire a laptop running Linux these > >days? Various web searches haven't helped me much. Some sites say > >it's better to get one running Windows, then install Linux. > >However, I get the impression that it can be difficult to have > >all the hardware working properly, because of a lack of Linux > >drivers. Other web sites list various laptops with Linux, but > >they turn out to be either extremely expensive, or very low-end, > >or currently out of stock. It appears that building one is not > >feasible as, unlike desktop machines, hardware is not standard. > > > >I understand that people do have laptops running Linux, so how is > >it done? I would be grateful for any advice. > > > >Peter Alefounder. > > > > I recently acquired a no-OS Lafité 13.3 from > https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk (i5, 8GB, 120GB SSD, 1920x1080) and it's > gorgeous, £516 IIRC. Everything works (wifi, bt, suspend /resume, key > backlight / function keys etc). > > Great service, my only connection being a happy customer. > > -jonathan > > > -- > Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk > Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire > LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk > -- > -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
On Thu, 3 Nov 2016 17:58:26 + (UTC), Peter Alefounder via Hampshire wrote: >What is the best way to acquire a laptop running Linux these >days? Various web searches haven't helped me much. Some sites say >it's better to get one running Windows, then install Linux. >However, I get the impression that it can be difficult to have >all the hardware working properly, because of a lack of Linux >drivers. Other web sites list various laptops with Linux, but >they turn out to be either extremely expensive, or very low-end, >or currently out of stock. It appears that building one is not >feasible as, unlike desktop machines, hardware is not standard. > >I understand that people do have laptops running Linux, so how is >it done? I would be grateful for any advice. > >Peter Alefounder. > I recently acquired a no-OS Lafité 13.3 from https://www.pcspecialist.co.uk (i5, 8GB, 120GB SSD, 1920x1080) and it's gorgeous, £516 IIRC. Everything works (wifi, bt, suspend /resume, key backlight / function keys etc). Great service, my only connection being a happy customer. -jonathan -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
Re: [Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
I used Jamies Computers. I had to do the install, but they tested my Latitude laptop with a live CD to make sure it all worked. These are reconditioned machines, but they upgraded the RAM and the hard-drive, and the advantage of having a slightly older machine is the hardware is more likely to have fully working drivers. These days the actual install seems pretty easy, using a downloaded disk image or a CD / DVD from a magazine. I'm very happy to have an excellent machine at a budget price, around about £100. When I've got stuck people on this list have always been helpful. Owain On 03/11/16 17:58, Peter Alefounder via Hampshire wrote: What is the best way to acquire a laptop running Linux these days? Various web searches haven't helped me much. Some sites say it's better to get one running Windows, then install Linux. However, I get the impression that it can be difficult to have all the hardware working properly, because of a lack of Linux drivers. Other web sites list various laptops with Linux, but they turn out to be either extremely expensive, or very low-end, or currently out of stock. It appears that building one is not feasible as, unlike desktop machines, hardware is not standard. I understand that people do have laptops running Linux, so how is it done? I would be grateful for any advice. Peter Alefounder. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
[Hampshire] How to get a laptop with Linux?
What is the best way to acquire a laptop running Linux these days? Various web searches haven't helped me much. Some sites say it's better to get one running Windows, then install Linux. However, I get the impression that it can be difficult to have all the hardware working properly, because of a lack of Linux drivers. Other web sites list various laptops with Linux, but they turn out to be either extremely expensive, or very low-end, or currently out of stock. It appears that building one is not feasible as, unlike desktop machines, hardware is not standard. I understand that people do have laptops running Linux, so how is it done? I would be grateful for any advice. Peter Alefounder. -- Please post to: Hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk Web Interface: https://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/hampshire LUG URL: http://www.hantslug.org.uk --
