Re: [Hampshire] Linux laptop

2017-06-29 Thread Peter Alefounder via Hampshire
> Have you already bought it Peter?

Yes, I have, thanks, Imran. I got one of these:

m.dell.com/mt/www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-3552-laptop-ubuntu/pd?oc=cn55231&model_id=inspiron-15-3552-laptop-ubuntu
 
a Dell Inspiron.

I prefer Debian to Ubuntu, but it's good enough. I now know why 
people choose Microsoft, though. So many things in Ubuntu require
use of the command line! If I was not already familiar with that,
I'd be stuck. Just for example, there's a completely useless software 
manager - it makes "recommendations" but provides no way to install
anything recommended. That requires apt-get. The file browser has
no GUI for making a file executable (or at least, not one that I can
find) - so I use chmod. I don't mind doing that, but I can see why 
a lot of people might be put off Linux by Ubuntu.

I do not find the touchpad easy to use, but the laptop is happy with
an old mouse that I plug in.

Samuel Penn said:
>I thought it was just me, since Entroware seem to get rated as a good
>company by the Ubuntu Podcast. Twice I've tried to contact them about
>their laptops over the past few years, and neither time did I get a
>peep out of them.

So it's not just me, then! Perhaps they prefer to do business with no 
questions asked.

Peter Alefounder.


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Re: [Hampshire] Linux laptop

2017-06-28 Thread Samuel Penn via Hampshire
On Friday 05 May 2017 11:13:02 Peter Alefounder via Hampshire wrote:
> Thanks to all those who replied, Thomas Kluyver, Ian Park, Aaron West
> and particularly Ben Parsonage. Ben - I think you have solved the
> problem. The Dell Inspiron machine looks like it will do very well. I
> investigated Entroware some time ago, but they do not reply to email.

Sorry, only just noticed that comment.

I thought it was just me, since Entroware seem to get rated as a
good company by the Ubuntu Podcast. Twice I've tried to contact
them about their laptops over the past few years, and neither time
did I get a peep out of them. I ended up buying something from
elsewhere both times.


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Re: [Hampshire] Linux laptop

2017-06-27 Thread Imran Chaudhry via Hampshire
Have you already bought it Peter?

I have found http://linlap.com/ usually pretty accurate and useful
when it comes to Lenovo Thinkpads at least. Maybe the laptop you are
interested in is listed there?

On 5 May 2017 at 12:13, Peter Alefounder via Hampshire
 wrote:
> Thanks to all those who replied, Thomas Kluyver, Ian Park, Aaron West
> and particularly Ben Parsonage. Ben - I think you have solved the
> problem. The Dell Inspiron machine looks like it will do very well. I
> investigated Entroware some time ago, but they do not reply to email.
> At the time I was looking for a screen with greater vertical
> resolution, but they all cost a great deal more. I have now made the
> particular program in question detect the screen size and adjust
> the output window accordingly, so that is no longer a problem.
>
> Thomas:
>> 1. Graphics cards: If you're not interested in gaming, stick to
>> Intel integrated graphics.
>
> Only worthwhile game I've ever known was bz, which ran on a Silicon
> Graphics Unix cluster (this was years ago). The Dell machine does
> indeed have Intel graphics.
>
> Aaron:
>> making it work(For me at least) can be half the fun!
>
> I dare say it is, but I have other things to do and would rather have
> something that "just works" with Linux already installed.
>
> Peter Alefounder.
>
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Re: [Hampshire] Linux laptop

2017-05-05 Thread Peter Alefounder via Hampshire
Thanks to all those who replied, Thomas Kluyver, Ian Park, Aaron West
and particularly Ben Parsonage. Ben - I think you have solved the
problem. The Dell Inspiron machine looks like it will do very well. I
investigated Entroware some time ago, but they do not reply to email.
At the time I was looking for a screen with greater vertical
resolution, but they all cost a great deal more. I have now made the
particular program in question detect the screen size and adjust
the output window accordingly, so that is no longer a problem.

Thomas:
> 1. Graphics cards: If you're not interested in gaming, stick to
> Intel integrated graphics.

Only worthwhile game I've ever known was bz, which ran on a Silicon
Graphics Unix cluster (this was years ago). The Dell machine does
indeed have Intel graphics.

Aaron:
> making it work(For me at least) can be half the fun!

I dare say it is, but I have other things to do and would rather have
something that "just works" with Linux already installed.

Peter Alefounder.

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Re: [Hampshire] Linux laptop

2017-05-03 Thread Aaron West via Hampshire
All the advice so far is absolutely spot on! So don't listen to me,
however... One thing I would add is that making it work(For me at least)
can be half the fun!

The previous laptop I had was an Toshiba Satellite P70-B-11P with both
Intel and AMD graphics, this laptop worked 100% flawlessly with all
features, I even regularly played games(Steam) using PRIME to select the
more powerful GPU as required.

The current one a HP Omen so far has one issue I've been unable to fix... I
can't get the HDMI port to work with my external monitor which is annoying
but I'll get it fixed eventually(Or someone will...), this one out of
interest uses intel/nvidia graphics but mileage with either vendor may
vary. I've had dozens of Laptops running Linux and I never worry too much,
just a quick google to see what issues I might need to fix and then dive
right in :)

One last piece of advice is don't buy anything too new technology wise,
when I purchased the Toshiba above it had a 4th Gen i7, however, 6th gen
was also available. Something that's been available a little longer usually
has more chance of working well with the bugs generally having been ironed
out in the Kernel. Get any issues try running something with a shiny new
Kernel or maybe try compiling your own.

On Wed, May 3, 2017 at 7:05 PM, Ian Park via Hampshire <
hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:

> I've found that PC Specialist's laptops are pretty good - we bought one
> there a few months back for the local branch of Benenden Healthcare, for
> around £500 - quite a high spec one, with 480GB SSD. I installed Linux Mint
> 18 on it, and it all worked flawlessly - then I had to start again with
> Windows 10, because the tech support people at Benenden need to be able to
> use Windows remote desktop .
>
> If your budget is a bit more limited than that, you can tailor the spec to
> bring down the cost - look at http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/
>
> Ian
>
> --
> Ian Park
> email: i.d.c.p...@ntlworld.com
> --
>
>
> On 02/05/17 21:44, Ben Parsonage via Hampshire wrote:
>
>> It will probably work fine but given the limited information it is very
>> difficult to say.
>>
>> It will probably have Intel graphics (a good thing for battery life), and
>> makes the graphics more likely to just work, but don't let this put you off
>> nvidia and and GPUs with a bit of effort they can be really good. If your
>> not gaming Intel is better.
>>
>> WiFi and Bluetooth are a common problem, although 802.11a/b/g/n all tend
>> work now. AC can be hit and miss and I have had problem with BT on Linux
>> (especially on combined cards).
>>
>> Keyboard hotkeys and trackpad often need a bit of setup. They tend to
>> just work but maybe not as you expect.
>>
>> UEFI can cause issues but secure boot is easily switched off.
>>
>> I imagine that you won't have any issues but there is always a risk. If
>> you want a better guarantee of Linux compatibility then you could go for a
>> Linux vendor.
>>
>> Dell Linux support
>> http://m.dell.com/mt/www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-3552-lapt
>> op-ubuntu/pd?oc=cn55231&model_id=inspiron-15-3552-laptop-ubuntu
>>
>> Entroware
>> https://www.entroware.com/store/laptops/triton
>>
>> System 76 may be worth a look but they tend to be expensive.
>>
>> You may pay a premium for Linux laptops but this is what is meant by
>> voting with your wallet.
>>
>> On 2 May 2017 12:33:14 BST, Peter Alefounder via Hampshire <
>> hampshire@mailman.lug.org.uk> wrote:
>>
>> If I were to get one of these:
>>
>> https://www.tesco.com/direct/acer-156-es15-intel-celeron-4gb
>> -ram-1tb-hdd-dvdrw-red-laptop/392-0906.prd?skuId=392-0906&
>> pageLevel=sku&sc_cmp=ppc*PX+-+DNF+Electrical*PX+-+Shopping+
>> GSC+-+Argos+-+Technology+-+Electricals*PRODUCT+GROUP392-
>> 0906*&gclid=COLH6NjdlNMCFdUV0wodWCkLEA&gclsrc=aw.ds
>>
>> would any problems be expected with installing Linux on it? I
>> sent an enquiry to Acer, but have no reply.
>>
>> Acer produce various laptop computers with Linux installed, but
>> they are only available in India as far as I can tell.
>>
>> Peter Alefounder.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Sent from my Android device with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity.
>>
>>
>>
>
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Re: [Hampshire] Linux laptop

2017-05-03 Thread Ian Park via Hampshire
I've found that PC Specialist's laptops are pretty good - we bought one 
there a few months back for the local branch of Benenden Healthcare, for 
around £500 - quite a high spec one, with 480GB SSD. I installed Linux 
Mint 18 on it, and it all worked flawlessly - then I had to start again 
with Windows 10, because the tech support people at Benenden need to be 
able to use Windows remote desktop .


If your budget is a bit more limited than that, you can tailor the spec 
to bring down the cost - look at http://www.pcspecialist.co.uk/


Ian

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On 02/05/17 21:44, Ben Parsonage via Hampshire wrote:
It will probably work fine but given the limited information it is 
very difficult to say.


It will probably have Intel graphics (a good thing for battery life), 
and makes the graphics more likely to just work, but don't let this 
put you off nvidia and and GPUs with a bit of effort they can be 
really good. If your not gaming Intel is better.


WiFi and Bluetooth are a common problem, although 802.11a/b/g/n all 
tend work now. AC can be hit and miss and I have had problem with BT 
on Linux (especially on combined cards).


Keyboard hotkeys and trackpad often need a bit of setup. They tend to 
just work but maybe not as you expect.


UEFI can cause issues but secure boot is easily switched off.

I imagine that you won't have any issues but there is always a risk. 
If you want a better guarantee of Linux compatibility then you could 
go for a Linux vendor.


Dell Linux support
http://m.dell.com/mt/www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-3552-laptop-ubuntu/pd?oc=cn55231&model_id=inspiron-15-3552-laptop-ubuntu

Entroware
https://www.entroware.com/store/laptops/triton

System 76 may be worth a look but they tend to be expensive.

You may pay a premium for Linux laptops but this is what is meant by 
voting with your wallet.


On 2 May 2017 12:33:14 BST, Peter Alefounder via Hampshire 
 wrote:


If I were to get one of these:


https://www.tesco.com/direct/acer-156-es15-intel-celeron-4gb-ram-1tb-hdd-dvdrw-red-laptop/392-0906.prd?skuId=392-0906&pageLevel=sku&sc_cmp=ppc*PX+-+DNF+Electrical*PX+-+Shopping+GSC+-+Argos+-+Technology+-+Electricals*PRODUCT+GROUP392-0906*&gclid=COLH6NjdlNMCFdUV0wodWCkLEA&gclsrc=aw.ds

would any problems be expected with installing Linux on it? I
sent an enquiry to Acer, but have no reply.

Acer produce various laptop computers with Linux installed, but
they are only available in India as far as I can tell.

Peter Alefounder.


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Re: [Hampshire] Linux laptop

2017-05-02 Thread Ben Parsonage via Hampshire
It will probably work fine but given the limited information it is very 
difficult to say. 

It will probably have Intel graphics (a good thing for battery life), and makes 
the graphics more likely to just work, but don't let this put you off nvidia 
and and GPUs with a bit of effort they can be really good. If your not gaming 
Intel is better. 

WiFi and Bluetooth are a common problem, although 802.11a/b/g/n all tend work 
now. AC can be hit and miss and I have had problem with BT on Linux (especially 
on combined cards). 

Keyboard hotkeys and trackpad often need a bit of setup. They tend to just work 
but maybe not as you expect. 

UEFI can cause issues but secure boot is easily switched off. 

I imagine that you won't have any issues but there is always a risk. If you 
want a better guarantee of Linux compatibility then you could go for a Linux 
vendor. 

Dell Linux support
http://m.dell.com/mt/www.dell.com/uk/p/inspiron-15-3552-laptop-ubuntu/pd?oc=cn55231&model_id=inspiron-15-3552-laptop-ubuntu

Entroware
https://www.entroware.com/store/laptops/triton

System 76 may be worth a look but they tend to be expensive. 

You may pay a premium for Linux laptops but this is what is meant by voting 
with your wallet. 

On 2 May 2017 12:33:14 BST, Peter Alefounder via Hampshire 
 wrote:
>If I were to get one of these:
>
>https://www.tesco.com/direct/acer-156-es15-intel-celeron-4gb-ram-1tb-hdd-dvdrw-red-laptop/392-0906.prd?skuId=392-0906&pageLevel=sku&sc_cmp=ppc*PX+-+DNF+Electrical*PX+-+Shopping+GSC+-+Argos+-+Technology+-+Electricals*PRODUCT+GROUP392-0906*&gclid=COLH6NjdlNMCFdUV0wodWCkLEA&gclsrc=aw.ds
>
>would any problems be expected with installing Linux on it? I
>sent an enquiry to Acer, but have no reply.
>
>Acer produce various laptop computers with Linux installed, but
>they are only available in India as far as I can tell.
>
>Peter Alefounder.
>
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Re: [Hampshire] Linux laptop

2017-05-02 Thread Thomas Kluyver via Hampshire
On Tue, May 2, 2017, at 12:33 PM, Peter Alefounder via Hampshire wrote:
> If I were to get one of these:
> 
> https://www.tesco.com/direct/acer-156-es15-intel-celeron-4gb-ram-1tb-hdd-dvdrw-red-laptop/392-0906.prd?skuId=392-0906&pageLevel=sku&sc_cmp=ppc*PX+-+DNF+Electrical*PX+-+Shopping+GSC+-+Argos+-+Technology+-+Electricals*PRODUCT+GROUP392-0906*&gclid=COLH6NjdlNMCFdUV0wodWCkLEA&gclsrc=aw.ds
> 
> would any problems be expected with installing Linux on it?

There isn't much detail there on what parts it uses, but the most likely
problems in my experience are:

1. Graphics cards: If you're not interested in gaming, stick to Intel
integrated graphics. Nvidia and AMD cards are more powerful, but the
proprietary drivers introduce extra complications, and the open source
ones may not be as robustly tested. Intel graphics play nicely with
Linux.
2. Wifi - I'm less sure what to look for, but I think Intel chipsets are
a good bet again. Again, the vast majority of chips will work, but some
of them are more hassle than others.

Any new laptop probably has UEFI secure boot - mainstream distros like
Ubuntu/Fedora should be OK with that, but if you want something more
niche, you may need to turn it off in the BIOS.

A search with the model number turned up one issue reported with the
touchpad:
https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux/+bug/1593943

And a few threads about issues with the E15, but hopefully that's not
the same as ES15.

> I sent an enquiry to Acer, but have no reply.

I wouldn't expect them to offer any useful info. Consumer support will
usually just tell you that Linux is not supported, and possibly warn you
about voiding the warranty.

Thomas

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[Hampshire] Linux laptop

2017-05-02 Thread Peter Alefounder via Hampshire
If I were to get one of these:

https://www.tesco.com/direct/acer-156-es15-intel-celeron-4gb-ram-1tb-hdd-dvdrw-red-laptop/392-0906.prd?skuId=392-0906&pageLevel=sku&sc_cmp=ppc*PX+-+DNF+Electrical*PX+-+Shopping+GSC+-+Argos+-+Technology+-+Electricals*PRODUCT+GROUP392-0906*&gclid=COLH6NjdlNMCFdUV0wodWCkLEA&gclsrc=aw.ds

would any problems be expected with installing Linux on it? I
sent an enquiry to Acer, but have no reply.

Acer produce various laptop computers with Linux installed, but
they are only available in India as far as I can tell.

Peter Alefounder.

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