Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On 2/23/06, Chris Farley <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Dude...Special Olympics?? That was tasteless and uncalled for. You should > be ashamed of yourself. Less for the joke than forgetting that fully 50% of email is misinterperted. If I offended anyone, I apologize. While I'm at it, I apologize for any possible infringement on either the Special Olympics or Olympics intellectual property. A question though. The sentiment is valid. Even the "winner" of an internet argument is a fool among fools. How would you rephrase it? Forget I asked. Me not reply to thread no more. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid0944&bid$1720&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Dude...Special Olympics?? That was tasteless and uncalled for. You should be ashamed of yourself. Chris Farley -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Lieman Sent: Thursday, February 23, 2006 10:00 AM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database On 2/23/06, Kevin Toppenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey guys, can we agree to disagree, or move any ensuing flame war to > another venue? > > Kevin Agreed. This thread is dead. Arguing in a mailing list is like competing in the Special Olympics Even if you win, ... --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=k&kid0944&bid$1720&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid0944&bid$1720&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On 2/23/06, Kevin Toppenberg <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hey guys, can we agree to disagree, or move any ensuing flame war to > another venue? > > Kevin Agreed. This thread is dead. Arguing in a mailing list is like competing in the Special Olympics Even if you win, ... --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid0944&bid$1720&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Hey guys, can we agree to disagree, or move any ensuing flame war to another venue? Kevin On 2/23/06, Mike Lieman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 2/23/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > I dunno, > > > > Well that would be obvious > > > > > your duty to The State in obeying it's regulations about > > > privacy and your duty to your customers seems pretty clear cut. > > > > Not so clear cut. First I don't have any customers. Maybe you have > > customers, but as a Pharmacist I have patients, which is why they call > > me Doctor. > > > > > I > > > don't exactly know where you figure unlawfully disclosing HIPPA > > > protected info to unauthorized people sets in, but if that's your idea > > > of the RIGHT THING, I don't want you counting MY pills. > > > > > > > That is fine. HIPPA doesn't override my professional responsibilities. > > Of course, those are your professional responsibilities as YOU see them. > > The will of The People which you AGREED to obey when you begged for a > license from the state is very clear cut in what your responsibilites > are. You obey the regulations, or you don't deserve a license. > > That's to protect The People. Your Patients. From cases where your > judgement of your professional responsibilities don't agree with what > the rest of society has deemed them to be. > > Don't want to obey The State's regulations in all their glory? Give > up your license. Don't say you're being moral when you PROMISED to > obey the regulations, then BREAK YOUR PROMISE when convenient. > > > --- > This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language > that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast > and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmdlnk&kid0944&bid$1720&dat1642 > ___ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid0944&bid$1720&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On 2/23/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > I dunno, > > Well that would be obvious > > > your duty to The State in obeying it's regulations about > > privacy and your duty to your customers seems pretty clear cut. > > Not so clear cut. First I don't have any customers. Maybe you have > customers, but as a Pharmacist I have patients, which is why they call > me Doctor. > > > I > > don't exactly know where you figure unlawfully disclosing HIPPA > > protected info to unauthorized people sets in, but if that's your idea > > of the RIGHT THING, I don't want you counting MY pills. > > > > That is fine. HIPPA doesn't override my professional responsibilities. Of course, those are your professional responsibilities as YOU see them. The will of The People which you AGREED to obey when you begged for a license from the state is very clear cut in what your responsibilites are. You obey the regulations, or you don't deserve a license. That's to protect The People. Your Patients. From cases where your judgement of your professional responsibilities don't agree with what the rest of society has deemed them to be. Don't want to obey The State's regulations in all their glory? Give up your license. Don't say you're being moral when you PROMISED to obey the regulations, then BREAK YOUR PROMISE when convenient. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid0944&bid$1720&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
> > > > I dunno, Well that would be obvious > your duty to The State in obeying it's regulations about > privacy and your duty to your customers seems pretty clear cut. Not so clear cut. First I don't have any customers. Maybe you have customers, but as a Pharmacist I have patients, which is why they call me Doctor. > I > don't exactly know where you figure unlawfully disclosing HIPPA > protected info to unauthorized people sets in, but if that's your idea > of the RIGHT THING, I don't want you counting MY pills. > That is fine. HIPPA doesn't override my professional responsibilities. I will not let people die because of HIPPA, or any OTHER regulation. See, as a medical professional, we have a responsibility that goes well beyond the letter of the law. We are actually called upon to do what it right. As for counting pills, I have no IDEA what your talking about. I have no pills in my pharmacy, unless you mean the birth control tablets, which are not pills either. Nor do have I counted any tablets in about 10 years. There is a big machine and a few non-professional techs running around to do that. Its time for you to put your bigoted ideas away and upgrade your perspective of what a Pharmacist does and is. More often then not they are saying some more patients neck. > You might decide the RIGHT THING is to swap my BP meds for something > different, or short me cause you believe the doc prescribed too many. Well, on the first case, I might very well indeed do that. Better me than the pharmacist working for your insurance company. But if I did, and it was in a outpatient situation, I would confer with the physician. If it was an inpatient situation, I would need to know the protocols for institution. In some places I would indeed just change it. In others I'd write the problem in the chart. I would CERTAINLY never authorize the dispensing of anything I found which I deemed not in your interest, and potentially harmful to your health, > > Maybe the RIGHT THING is to not fill a "morning after" script. > Maybe, but that would be a different issue which has zero to do with this thread. And some dentists refuse to work with HIV patients, and many physicians refuse to perform abortions. And then you have physician assisted suicide and the recent questions about the use of injections for executions in the criminal system. Your welcome to break each of these issues out to different threads, but I no interest in participating in those discussions at this time. > Perhaps you don't want to admit violating the law, your oath, and > professional cannons in something archived forever by Google, too. > > You are obviously clueless what my professional responsibilities are anyway. By all means, google away! Ruben --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=110944&bid=241720&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On 2/22/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 11:35, Mike Lieman wrote: > > On 2/21/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > On Mon, 2006-02-20 at 08:02, Mike Lieman wrote: > > > > On 2/16/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Open my records! Please open my records. > > > > > > > > > > Is that clear enough? > > > > > > > > > > > > > How do you think your patients feel about that? > > > > > > I don't really care how they feel about it any more than I care how they > > > feel about any other professional decision. > > > > Great. I know what kind of physician you are now. > > > > There's no need to continue this. > > > > > I'm a Pharmacist. The kind that does the ***RIGHT THING*** when faced > with a dilemma and not swayed by personal considerations, corruption, or > profit when faced with healthcare concerns. > > Ruben > I dunno, your duty to The State in obeying it's regulations about privacy and your duty to your customers seems pretty clear cut. I don't exactly know where you figure unlawfully disclosing HIPPA protected info to unauthorized people sets in, but if that's your idea of the RIGHT THING, I don't want you counting MY pills. You might decide the RIGHT THING is to swap my BP meds for something different, or short me cause you believe the doc prescribed too many. Maybe the RIGHT THING is to not fill a "morning after" script. Perhaps you don't want to admit violating the law, your oath, and professional cannons in something archived forever by Google, too. --- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. Attend the live webcast and join the prime developer group breaking into this new coding territory! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid0944&bid$1720&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On Wed, 2006-02-22 at 11:35, Mike Lieman wrote: > On 2/21/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, 2006-02-20 at 08:02, Mike Lieman wrote: > > > On 2/16/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Open my records! Please open my records. > > > > > > > > Is that clear enough? > > > > > > > > > > How do you think your patients feel about that? > > > > I don't really care how they feel about it any more than I care how they > > feel about any other professional decision. > > Great. I know what kind of physician you are now. > > There's no need to continue this. > > I'm a Pharmacist. The kind that does the ***RIGHT THING*** when faced with a dilemma and not swayed by personal considerations, corruption, or profit when faced with healthcare concerns. Ruben > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd___ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Ruben is not a physician, as far as I know. I believe he is a pharmacist. Kevin On 2/22/06, Mike Lieman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 2/21/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On Mon, 2006-02-20 at 08:02, Mike Lieman wrote: > > > On 2/16/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > Open my records! Please open my records. > > > > > > > > Is that clear enough? > > > > > > > > > > How do you think your patients feel about that? > > > > I don't really care how they feel about it any more than I care how they > > feel about any other professional decision. > > Great. I know what kind of physician you are now. > > There's no need to continue this. > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmdlnk&kid3432&bid#0486&dat1642 > ___ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid3432&bid#0486&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On 2/21/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Mon, 2006-02-20 at 08:02, Mike Lieman wrote: > > On 2/16/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > Open my records! Please open my records. > > > > > > Is that clear enough? > > > > > > > How do you think your patients feel about that? > > I don't really care how they feel about it any more than I care how they > feel about any other professional decision. Great. I know what kind of physician you are now. There's no need to continue this. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid3432&bid#0486&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
--- Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Or do you care more how > your > patient "feels" about it then saving the life of your patients wife > when > you tell her that her husband has AID's. What kind of professional > ethics are you displaying? > > > Ruben I think Ruben raises some valid points here. When we say that there is no need, from a public health perspective, to track progress of a disease at the individual level, is that a conclusion based on science or policy? I'm not saying policy is unimportant, of course, but we often fail to distinguish between the two. I don't pretend to know the answers, but it does at least seem that these are valid questions. I am inclined to agree that legal protections are all the more important with technologies such as electronic health records being introduced, and the last thing I want to do is suggest that I don't think privacy is very important, but I cringe when I think of a repeat of 1918, too. === Gregory Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." --Arthur Schopenhauer --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On Mon, 2006-02-20 at 08:02, Mike Lieman wrote: > On 2/16/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > Open my records! Please open my records. > > > > Is that clear enough? > > > > How do you think your patients feel about that? I don't really care how they feel about it any more than I care how they feel about any other professional decision. Isn't that a stupid question on your part? Or do you care more how your patient "feels" about it then saving the life of your patients wife when you tell her that her husband has AID's. What kind of professional ethics are you displaying? Ruben --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
I believe local governments has a carve out. In fact, governments and law enforcement in general have a carve out. On Mon, 2006-02-20 at 08:06, Mike Ginsburg wrote: > I assume that while we still have HIPAA, that the City of New York meets all > HIPAA requirements and that all the appropriate paper work has been taken > care of. Otherwise, would participating labs be liable for fines? > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike > Lieman > Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:00 AM > To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database > > On 2/16/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > The health department, as far as I'm concerned, can ask for any > > information it wants. Unless your showing me that this information is > > being miss used, or used legally, I'm ABSOLUTELY not interested. > > > > In fact, they need to flush HIPPA which is just stupid. > > > > Ruben > > Privacy v. Responsibility. Geez, what a hot button topic. Let me confine > my comments to this: > > If we return responsibility for ensuring the privacy of medical records to > the individual, how would you handle a patient who hands you a "Personal > Copyright and License" which ONLY permits YOU to use and store the > information needed for treatment but not to disclose it without written > permission? > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid3432&bid#0486&dat1642 > ___ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd___ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
I assume that while we still have HIPAA, that the City of New York meets all HIPAA requirements and that all the appropriate paper work has been taken care of. Otherwise, would participating labs be liable for fines? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Lieman Sent: Monday, February 20, 2006 8:00 AM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database On 2/16/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The health department, as far as I'm concerned, can ask for any > information it wants. Unless your showing me that this information is > being miss used, or used legally, I'm ABSOLUTELY not interested. > > In fact, they need to flush HIPPA which is just stupid. > > Ruben Privacy v. Responsibility. Geez, what a hot button topic. Let me confine my comments to this: If we return responsibility for ensuring the privacy of medical records to the individual, how would you handle a patient who hands you a "Personal Copyright and License" which ONLY permits YOU to use and store the information needed for treatment but not to disclose it without written permission? --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid3432&bid#0486&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid3432&bid#0486&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
> > Blaming the CEO isn't fair. They have every right to be compensated at > ridiculous levels, being that they are in charge of such large > organizations. All CEOs are ridiculously compensated. > Sure, but I'm struck by the thought that if the LAW was a corporate office could have only the healthcare plan offered to the janitory, we wouldn't be having a lot of these arguements. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid3432&bid#0486&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On 2/16/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Open my records! Please open my records. > > Is that clear enough? > How do you think your patients feel about that? --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid3432&bid#0486&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On 2/16/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > The health department, as far as I'm concerned, can ask for any > information it wants. Unless your showing me that this information is > being miss used, or used legally, I'm ABSOLUTELY not interested. > > In fact, they need to flush HIPPA which is just stupid. > > Ruben Privacy v. Responsibility. Geez, what a hot button topic. Let me confine my comments to this: If we return responsibility for ensuring the privacy of medical records to the individual, how would you handle a patient who hands you a "Personal Copyright and License" which ONLY permits YOU to use and store the information needed for treatment but not to disclose it without written permission? --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid3432&bid#0486&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Mike Schrom wrote: CBF: This should definitely be legal. Why should the employer be saddled with the cost of your lowered productivity due to illness? MS: That sounds great, unless you are the one whose children can't have food or clothes or go to college because you can't get a job because EVERY potential employer can find out your A1C or how often you've filled your asthma inhaler prescription. As I understand "insurance", the concept is that a large pool of folks <> risk so that all the members suffer less from life's uncertainties. As I understand insurance as it applies to the unfortunate citizens of the United States, we have evolved a large industry dedicated to profit by <> providing health care. That is the situation on the ground where I see patients. This discussion is about some other planet. Regards to all, jlzimmer --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Chris Farley Independent Consultant 540-722-2143 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Schrom Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:33 PM To: Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: RE: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database (Snip) CBF: This should definitely be legal. Why should the employer be saddled with the cost of your lowered productivity due to illness? MS: That sounds great, unless you are the one whose children can't have food or clothes or go to college because you can't get a job because EVERY potential employer can find out your A1C or how often you've filled your asthma inhaler prescription. CBF: I am confident that laws can and will be passed that will prevent employers from using medical information against candidates. Laws already exist in the form of the ADA that can be applied. (Snip) That is the idea of co-pays today, just a little hurtle to make sure you really are sick - though that doesn't seem to be working very well. MS: Not true! The copay is a way of shifting the costs away from the insurance plan which has converted to a 'for profit' and needs to pay an increasing percentage of your ever rising premium dollars to their millionaire CEO and stockholders. I have patients who have a $30 copay for a $45 visit, which costs the Insurer $7 after the copay and the $8 risk withhold (which I may never see)! CBF: I'd call that a poor plan. I have a ten dollar co-pay, regardless of the visit cost. Blaming the CEO isn't fair. They have every right to be compensated at ridiculous levels, being that they are in charge of such large organizations. All CEOs are ridiculously compensated. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
RE: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Chris Farley Independent Consultant 540-722-2143 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Hay Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 4:32 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database Likewise: Chris Farley wrote: > Comments are inserted below: > > Chris Farley > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen > Hay > Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:31 PM > To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database > > (SNIP) > > And people who make policy tend not to be subject to that > policy - at least, where I live that's the case... Likewise, > the people who demand the information be made public are > usually in a position, I say usually, that doesn't require > that their own records are open to public display... or > they're currently in a situation in which it doesn't matter. > Funny how the onset of disease affects people's perspective > on things like this... > > CBF: Ultimately, no one is exempt. If you abuse the power the people give > you, you won't be in a position to make policy very long. True. But the policies remain. It's rare that these things are reversed. CBF: I agree. The policies are also very slow moving and this is something to guard against. We the people, so to speak, need to keep our politicians in line. > > (SNIP) > > There is also the possibility to profile and apply user-pays > to those who have a non-contagious disease which treatment > costs a lot. So suddenly if you're sick, you're financially > responsible for that too. So much for *public* health. > > CBF: I don't see an issue with this. Why shouldn't sick people pay for > care? When I was a child, I hardly ever went to the doctor. My mother > didn't want to pay for it. I only went when I was very ill. That is the > idea of co-pays today, just a little hurtle to make sure you really are sick > - though that doesn't seem to be working very well. > > But there's insurance. For a start, the life insurance > companies would be VERY interested because they'd have a way > of checking the truth or not of insurance applications. In > fact, you wouldn't even need to fill in the application. > They could just send you a bill based on your life expectancy. > > CBF: This is a perfect way to handle life insurance. The idea of life > insurance is to help the survivors should you be taken before you have a > chance to plan for it. Those who are going to die early, should live life > in that manner and plan appropriately - and pay more for life insurance. If > my life expectancy is 80, I don't want to pay more because someone with a > shorter life expectancy wanted to lie to the insurer so they could live high > off the hog. It's one way of looking at it. Up to now, life insurance premiums spread the risk across all policy holders. Basing it on individual circumstances reduces the need to spread the risk. And places it all on the individual carrying the condition. How do you deal with congenital illness in this case? Is the individual to be financially penalised for carrying a condition he didn't "choose"? CBF: Yes, the individual is to be penalized. I understand that there are moral differences in this regard. However, I don't feel that I should be forced to pay for another person's illness. I may choose to do so, philanthropically, but I don't want to be forced. > Employers would be interested because they'd be able to pick > and choose employees based on health factors as well as > competence. Meaning, if you had the choice between two > candidates and one suffered from a condition that might > affect their work, which would you choose? Is that legal? > Maybe not now, but just wait until the next downturn... > > CBF: This should definitely be legal. Why should the employer be saddled > with the cost of your lowered productivity due to illness? > > So the sick become the unemployed, who can't afford the > insurance for the treatment they need. No problem, you say. > That's what happens now... > > And it goes on. > > You'll be able to check whether or not people are carrying > the gene that makes them pre-disposed to a certain disease. > You could even sterilise them so that they don't propagate > the gene, in the interest of the common good, of course. > > CBF: The points you made in the previous paragraphs closely align with the > eugenics debates of the 1920s. The same debates
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Sometimes a picture is worth, well, you know... ;-) http://www.claybennett.com/pages/10_29_01.html Kevin Toppenberg wrote: This sounds like a discussion from an ethics course, where we have a discordance between conflicting principles. As physicians, we are trained to be patient advocates. We don't usually step back and look at the big picture--at least those in private practice. It takes researches in the CDC etc to address group concerns etc. So I see this as a public health policy issue. "Rights" can be seen as universal (the "right" to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness), or perhaps granted--the "rights" of those in China differ from our "rights". It often seems to come down to "might is right". The government has the might, and thus dictates the rights. But I think that many want to do the correct/right thing for the majority of people. Does the "right" of privacy outweigh the need for others to be safe? I think not. Thus I would understand manditory reporting of HIV (and especially not that it is not seen so much like 'leprosy' from the bible, and more like cancer.) But I agree with Nancy that collecting HgbA1c's is an unreasonable breach of privacy. But to be honest, I think that privacy is nebulus concept that is rapidly being stripped away. We carry cell phones--> our movement can be tracked. We watch TiVo TV--> our watching habits can be tracked. Even our searches on Google are being tracked. I read in Wired Magazine about thermal imaging techniques were people outside one's home can thermally image those inside. I can anticipate times where we all have to acknowledge that it becomes nigh unto impossible to keep secrets. Kevin On 2/16/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 15:49 -0400, Joseph Conn wrote: I'm with you, Nancy. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and I'm surprised I haven't heard the ACLU filing an injunction against NYC on this program. Since diabetes is not contagious, I don't think that because the city may end up paying the cost of care for some of its citizens gives it the right to snoop on all of its citizens. What is this? Your making a bald faced lie here. You know as well as anyone on this list that the costs here is not just a few dollars, but money that runs into the BILLIONS not to mention the real morbitiy and mortality. But what do you care? Your not a minority poor from Brownsville, or a tax payer of the city of New York so its no sweat off your back. Disguesting This program isn't a slippery slope in my book, it's a toboggan run. Joseph Conn Staff writer Modern Healthcare Modern Physician Heatlh IT Strategist 312-649-5395 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out the NEW ModernPhysician.com, and register now for Modern Physician Stat and Modern Physician Alert [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2/16/2006 1:27 PM >>> Most if not all health departments require that contacts be notified. They just don't allow the contact to be told who had the positive HIV test without permission. I don't think anyone who has a positive HIV test is a priori a murderer. If someone in NYC hears the Health Department is collecting this data and does not want a Health Department envelope arriving in his mailbox, he has no way to stop that at the moment. He cannot contact the Health Department until they contact him by mail. If he wishes to keep the fact he has diabetes to himself, that makes it very difficult if someone else uses the same mailbox. And collecting every A1C that has been done does not even invade the privacy of just the diabetics. I am sure it is much easier just to grab all of the data than it is to write the programs to sort out all the A1Cs above 7, so they took the easy out. This represents a little more sliding down that slippery slope and the program is just getting started! On Thursday 16 February 2006 13:29, Ruben Safir wrote: On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 12:07, Nancy Anthracite wrote: I have been working with the CDC with an eye to include in VistA the option to report deidentified data to the Biosense project to help with the early detection of disease such outbreaks, etc. Privacy does not have to be violated in order to achieve most of what you are concerned about. Yeah, actually it does. In order to intervene with specific patient about their diabetes, the individual patient must be contacted. In order to prevent potential sex partners from getting AIDs and dieing, the diseased patients identity, and their current and recent sex partners need to be identified AND contacts. in the later case you have to decide if your for or against murder. Ruben --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=1216
RE: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
(Snip) CBF: This should definitely be legal. Why should the employer be saddled with the cost of your lowered productivity due to illness? MS: That sounds great, unless you are the one whose children can't have food or clothes or go to college because you can't get a job because EVERY potential employer can find out your A1C or how often you've filled your asthma inhaler prescription. (Snip) That is the idea of co-pays today, just a little hurtle to make sure you really are sick - though that doesn't seem to be working very well. MS: Not true! The copay is a way of shifting the costs away from the insurance plan which has converted to a 'for profit' and needs to pay an increasing percentage of your ever rising premium dollars to their millionaire CEO and stockholders. I have patients who have a $30 copay for a $45 visit, which costs the Insurer $7 after the copay and the $8 risk withhold (which I may never see)! --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Likewise: Chris Farley wrote: Comments are inserted below: Chris Farley -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Hay Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:31 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database (SNIP) And people who make policy tend not to be subject to that policy - at least, where I live that's the case... Likewise, the people who demand the information be made public are usually in a position, I say usually, that doesn't require that their own records are open to public display... or they're currently in a situation in which it doesn't matter. Funny how the onset of disease affects people's perspective on things like this... CBF: Ultimately, no one is exempt. If you abuse the power the people give you, you won't be in a position to make policy very long. True. But the policies remain. It's rare that these things are reversed. (SNIP) There is also the possibility to profile and apply user-pays to those who have a non-contagious disease which treatment costs a lot. So suddenly if you're sick, you're financially responsible for that too. So much for *public* health. CBF: I don't see an issue with this. Why shouldn't sick people pay for care? When I was a child, I hardly ever went to the doctor. My mother didn't want to pay for it. I only went when I was very ill. That is the idea of co-pays today, just a little hurtle to make sure you really are sick - though that doesn't seem to be working very well. But there's insurance. For a start, the life insurance companies would be VERY interested because they'd have a way of checking the truth or not of insurance applications. In fact, you wouldn't even need to fill in the application. They could just send you a bill based on your life expectancy. CBF: This is a perfect way to handle life insurance. The idea of life insurance is to help the survivors should you be taken before you have a chance to plan for it. Those who are going to die early, should live life in that manner and plan appropriately - and pay more for life insurance. If my life expectancy is 80, I don't want to pay more because someone with a shorter life expectancy wanted to lie to the insurer so they could live high off the hog. It's one way of looking at it. Up to now, life insurance premiums spread the risk across all policy holders. Basing it on individual circumstances reduces the need to spread the risk. And places it all on the individual carrying the condition. How do you deal with congenital illness in this case? Is the individual to be financially penalised for carrying a condition he didn't "choose"? Employers would be interested because they'd be able to pick and choose employees based on health factors as well as competence. Meaning, if you had the choice between two candidates and one suffered from a condition that might affect their work, which would you choose? Is that legal? Maybe not now, but just wait until the next downturn... CBF: This should definitely be legal. Why should the employer be saddled with the cost of your lowered productivity due to illness? > So the sick become the unemployed, who can't afford the insurance for the treatment they need. No problem, you say. That's what happens now... And it goes on. You'll be able to check whether or not people are carrying the gene that makes them pre-disposed to a certain disease. You could even sterilise them so that they don't propagate the gene, in the interest of the common good, of course. CBF: The points you made in the previous paragraphs closely align with the eugenics debates of the 1920s. The same debates that Hitler used to justify his final solution. While history does tend to repeat itself, I think we can all clearly see that sterilization and selective abortion is wrong - and we have Hitler as a prime example of just how wrong it is.. Plus, the Republicans would never let this happen, so most of that part of your argument is too fantastic. It was said "tongue-in-cheek" - difficult to see on a mailing list, I realise... Whether or not the Republicans would or wouldn't let something happen is out of my domain. I don't live "there". But, fantastic or not, you can, incidentally, achieve the same results by neglect. You just have to know which parts of the population you wish to neglect. The advantage of this approach is, of course, no-one can point the finger later. Because there's nothing to point at... The typhoid/AIDS argument is valid as an example of the contagious disease-type policy. It's a valid public health argument. For *after* the disease makes itself known... CBF: Why would we wait until after an epidemic starts?
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
This sounds like a discussion from an ethics course, where we have a discordance between conflicting principles. As physicians, we are trained to be patient advocates. We don't usually step back and look at the big picture--at least those in private practice. It takes researches in the CDC etc to address group concerns etc. So I see this as a public health policy issue. "Rights" can be seen as universal (the "right" to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness), or perhaps granted--the "rights" of those in China differ from our "rights". It often seems to come down to "might is right". The government has the might, and thus dictates the rights. But I think that many want to do the correct/right thing for the majority of people. Does the "right" of privacy outweigh the need for others to be safe? I think not. Thus I would understand manditory reporting of HIV (and especially not that it is not seen so much like 'leprosy' from the bible, and more like cancer.) But I agree with Nancy that collecting HgbA1c's is an unreasonable breach of privacy. But to be honest, I think that privacy is nebulus concept that is rapidly being stripped away. We carry cell phones--> our movement can be tracked. We watch TiVo TV--> our watching habits can be tracked. Even our searches on Google are being tracked. I read in Wired Magazine about thermal imaging techniques were people outside one's home can thermally image those inside. I can anticipate times where we all have to acknowledge that it becomes nigh unto impossible to keep secrets. Kevin On 2/16/06, Ruben Safir <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 15:49 -0400, Joseph Conn wrote: > > I'm with you, Nancy. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and > > I'm surprised I haven't heard the ACLU filing an injunction against NYC > > on this program. Since diabetes is not contagious, I don't think that > > because the city may end up paying the cost of care for some of its > > citizens gives it the right to snoop on all of its citizens. > > > What is this? Your making a bald faced lie here. You know as well as > anyone on this list that the costs here is not just a few dollars, but > money that runs into the BILLIONS not to mention the real morbitiy and > mortality. > > But what do you care? Your not a minority poor from Brownsville, or a > tax payer of the city of New York so its no sweat off your back. > > Disguesting > > > This > > program isn't a slippery slope in my book, it's a toboggan run. > > > > Joseph Conn > > Staff writer > > Modern Healthcare > > Modern Physician > > Heatlh IT Strategist > > 312-649-5395 > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > Check out the NEW ModernPhysician.com, and register now for Modern > > Physician Stat and Modern Physician Alert > > > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2/16/2006 1:27 PM >>> > > Most if not all health departments require that contacts be notified. > > They > > just don't allow the contact to be told who had the positive HIV test > > without > > permission. > > > > I don't think anyone who has a positive HIV test is a priori a > > murderer. > > > > If someone in NYC hears the Health Department is collecting this data > > and does > > not want a Health Department envelope arriving in his mailbox, he has > > no way > > to stop that at the moment. He cannot contact the Health Department > > until > > they contact him by mail. If he wishes to keep the fact he has > > diabetes to > > himself, that makes it very difficult if someone else uses the same > > mailbox. > > > > And collecting every A1C that has been done does not even invade the > > privacy > > of just the diabetics. I am sure it is much easier just to grab all of > > the > > data than it is to write the programs to sort out all the A1Cs above 7, > > so > > they took the easy out. This represents a little more sliding down > > that > > slippery slope and the program is just getting started! > > > > > > On Thursday 16 February 2006 13:29, Ruben Safir wrote: > > On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 12:07, Nancy Anthracite wrote: > > > I have been working with the CDC with an eye to include in VistA the > > option > > > to report deidentified data to the Biosense project to help with the > > early > > > detection of disease such outbreaks, etc. Privacy does not have to > > be > > > violated in order to achieve most of what you are concerned about. > > > > Yeah, actually it does. > > > > In order to intervene with specific patient about their diabetes, the > > individual patient must be contacted. In order to prevent potential > > sex > > partners from getting AIDs and dieing, the diseased patients identity, > > and their current and recent sex partners need to be identified AND > > contacts. > > > > in the later case you have to decide if your for or against murder. > > > > Ruben > > > > > > > > --- > > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log > > files > > for problems?
RE: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Comments are inserted below: Chris Farley -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Stephen Hay Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 3:31 PM To: hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database (SNIP) And people who make policy tend not to be subject to that policy - at least, where I live that's the case... Likewise, the people who demand the information be made public are usually in a position, I say usually, that doesn't require that their own records are open to public display... or they're currently in a situation in which it doesn't matter. Funny how the onset of disease affects people's perspective on things like this... CBF: Ultimately, no one is exempt. If you abuse the power the people give you, you won't be in a position to make policy very long. (SNIP) There is also the possibility to profile and apply user-pays to those who have a non-contagious disease which treatment costs a lot. So suddenly if you're sick, you're financially responsible for that too. So much for *public* health. CBF: I don't see an issue with this. Why shouldn't sick people pay for care? When I was a child, I hardly ever went to the doctor. My mother didn't want to pay for it. I only went when I was very ill. That is the idea of co-pays today, just a little hurtle to make sure you really are sick - though that doesn't seem to be working very well. But there's insurance. For a start, the life insurance companies would be VERY interested because they'd have a way of checking the truth or not of insurance applications. In fact, you wouldn't even need to fill in the application. They could just send you a bill based on your life expectancy. CBF: This is a perfect way to handle life insurance. The idea of life insurance is to help the survivors should you be taken before you have a chance to plan for it. Those who are going to die early, should live life in that manner and plan appropriately - and pay more for life insurance. If my life expectancy is 80, I don't want to pay more because someone with a shorter life expectancy wanted to lie to the insurer so they could live high off the hog. Employers would be interested because they'd be able to pick and choose employees based on health factors as well as competence. Meaning, if you had the choice between two candidates and one suffered from a condition that might affect their work, which would you choose? Is that legal? Maybe not now, but just wait until the next downturn... CBF: This should definitely be legal. Why should the employer be saddled with the cost of your lowered productivity due to illness? So the sick become the unemployed, who can't afford the insurance for the treatment they need. No problem, you say. That's what happens now... And it goes on. You'll be able to check whether or not people are carrying the gene that makes them pre-disposed to a certain disease. You could even sterilise them so that they don't propagate the gene, in the interest of the common good, of course. CBF: The points you made in the previous paragraphs closely align with the eugenics debates of the 1920s. The same debates that Hitler used to justify his final solution. While history does tend to repeat itself, I think we can all clearly see that sterilization and selective abortion is wrong - and we have Hitler as a prime example of just how wrong it is.. Plus, the Republicans would never let this happen, so most of that part of your argument is too fantastic. The typhoid/AIDS argument is valid as an example of the contagious disease-type policy. It's a valid public health argument. For *after* the disease makes itself known... CBF: Why would we wait until after an epidemic starts? Isn't that the ultimate failure of the government's response to AIDS - they waited to act. "After" is too late. The disease made itself known by either killing someone or making them very ill. The diabetes argument is largely a financial one, I think billions was mentioned. And no, I don't live in Brooklyn. But we do have a huge diabetes problem... CBF: You state this as if the financial considerations just don't matter. But, they certainly matter. Unless you are an economist and fully understand the full implications, you probably shouldn't brush the costs off so quickly. I think one of the issues in all this is the potential for the misuse of this information in making *predictions*. If you moved to a town in which 40% of the population didn't live to 60, would you feel obliged to die? CBF: I don't really understand this point. Can you clarify it's meaning for me a little? --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On Fri, Feb 17, 2006 at 09:36:02AM +1300, Stephen Hay wrote: > Loud and clear...! > > Shame I'm not a policy maker... ;-) > We're all responsible for policy although I apreciate the attempt at humor. Ruben -- __ Brooklyn Linux Solutions So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://fairuse.nylxs.com "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME" http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Loud and clear...! Shame I'm not a policy maker... ;-) Ruben Safir wrote: And people who make policy tend not to be subject to that policy - at least, where I live that's the case... Likewise, the people who demand the information be made public are usually in a position, I say usually, that doesn't require that their own records are open to public display... or they're currently in a situation in which it doesn't matter. Funny how the onset of disease affects people's perspective on things like this... Open my records! Please open my records. Is that clear enough? --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
> > And people who make policy tend not to be subject to that > policy - at least, where I live that's the case... Likewise, > the people who demand the information be made public are > usually in a position, I say usually, that doesn't require > that their own records are open to public display... or > they're currently in a situation in which it doesn't matter. > Funny how the onset of disease affects people's perspective > on things like this... > Open my records! Please open my records. Is that clear enough? -- __ Brooklyn Linux Solutions So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://fairuse.nylxs.com "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME" http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Consider this. A database/patient management system exists full of rich patient data. What's being debated in this thread is policy, which translates into business rules, the data's the same, regardless. If the business rules are set up to reflect policy, they can be changed as policy changes. And people who make policy tend not to be subject to that policy - at least, where I live that's the case... Likewise, the people who demand the information be made public are usually in a position, I say usually, that doesn't require that their own records are open to public display... or they're currently in a situation in which it doesn't matter. Funny how the onset of disease affects people's perspective on things like this... Unfortunately, once the decisions of this magnitude have been made, there is little chance of them being reversed. So before making such decisions, the potential policy changes need to be considered, which is why decisions like this take so long... So what happens if everything is public? There is the possibility of rich data-mining to profile and prevent epidemics. That's a positive for public health. There is also the possibility to profile and apply user-pays to those who have a non-contagious disease which treatment costs a lot. So suddenly if you're sick, you're financially responsible for that too. So much for *public* health. But there's insurance. For a start, the life insurance companies would be VERY interested because they'd have a way of checking the truth or not of insurance applications. In fact, you wouldn't even need to fill in the application. They could just send you a bill based on your life expectancy. Employers would be interested because they'd be able to pick and choose employees based on health factors as well as competence. Meaning, if you had the choice between two candidates and one suffered from a condition that might affect their work, which would you choose? Is that legal? Maybe not now, but just wait until the next downturn... So the sick become the unemployed, who can't afford the insurance for the treatment they need. No problem, you say. That's what happens now... And it goes on. You'll be able to check whether or not people are carrying the gene that makes them pre-disposed to a certain disease. You could even sterilise them so that they don't propagate the gene, in the interest of the common good, of course. The typhoid/AIDS argument is valid as an example of the contagious disease-type policy. It's a valid public health argument. For *after* the disease makes itself known... The diabetes argument is largely a financial one, I think billions was mentioned. And no, I don't live in Brooklyn. But we do have a huge diabetes problem... I think one of the issues in all this is the potential for the misuse of this information in making *predictions*. If you moved to a town in which 40% of the population didn't live to 60, would you feel obliged to die? Stephen Greg Woodhouse wrote: --- James Gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: We may be wasting bandwidth, but I do agree. Jim Gray It's not an either/or situation, or at least it shouldn't be. You've both discussed valid functional requirements, and the question should be how you are to accomodate both. === Gregory Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." --Arthur Schopenhauer --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On Thu, Feb 16, 2006 at 03:06:04PM -0500, Nancy Anthracite wrote: > >From the NYC Health Department web site > http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/ah/ahn1.shtml > > New York State began implementation of this law on June 1, 2000. ... > > 1 .What is this new law about, and what will it do? > The new law requires doctors and laboratories to tell the Health Department > about new cases of HIV infection and HIV illness, along with AIDS cases as > they do now. It also requires doctors to discuss with their HIV infected > patients those whom they may have exposed to HIV infection through sex or > needle sharing. The Health Department or physicians can then notify people > who are at risk about where to get counseling, testing, and treatment if they > are infected. ... Not good enough. Hospitals and healthcare providers are still getting sued and prosecuted for disclosing HIV status to the family. There is still a gag order. -- __ Brooklyn Linux Solutions So many immigrant groups have swept through our town that Brooklyn, like Atlantis, reaches mythological proportions in the mind of the world - RI Safir 1998 DRM is THEFT - We are the STAKEHOLDERS - RI Safir 2002 http://fairuse.nylxs.com "Yeah - I write Free Software...so SUE ME" http://www.mrbrklyn.com - Consulting http://www.inns.net <-- Happy Clients http://www.nylxs.com - Leadership Development in Free Software http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/resources - Unpublished Archive or stories and articles from around the net http://www2.mrbrklyn.com/downtown.html - See the New Downtown Brooklyn --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 15:49 -0400, Joseph Conn wrote: > I'm with you, Nancy. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and > I'm surprised I haven't heard the ACLU filing an injunction against NYC > on this program. Since diabetes is not contagious, I don't think that > because the city may end up paying the cost of care for some of its > citizens gives it the right to snoop on all of its citizens. What is this? Your making a bald faced lie here. You know as well as anyone on this list that the costs here is not just a few dollars, but money that runs into the BILLIONS not to mention the real morbitiy and mortality. But what do you care? Your not a minority poor from Brownsville, or a tax payer of the city of New York so its no sweat off your back. Disguesting > This > program isn't a slippery slope in my book, it's a toboggan run. > > Joseph Conn > Staff writer > Modern Healthcare > Modern Physician > Heatlh IT Strategist > 312-649-5395 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Check out the NEW ModernPhysician.com, and register now for Modern > Physician Stat and Modern Physician Alert > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2/16/2006 1:27 PM >>> > Most if not all health departments require that contacts be notified. > They > just don't allow the contact to be told who had the positive HIV test > without > permission. > > I don't think anyone who has a positive HIV test is a priori a > murderer. > > If someone in NYC hears the Health Department is collecting this data > and does > not want a Health Department envelope arriving in his mailbox, he has > no way > to stop that at the moment. He cannot contact the Health Department > until > they contact him by mail. If he wishes to keep the fact he has > diabetes to > himself, that makes it very difficult if someone else uses the same > mailbox. > > And collecting every A1C that has been done does not even invade the > privacy > of just the diabetics. I am sure it is much easier just to grab all of > the > data than it is to write the programs to sort out all the A1Cs above 7, > so > they took the easy out. This represents a little more sliding down > that > slippery slope and the program is just getting started! > > > On Thursday 16 February 2006 13:29, Ruben Safir wrote: > On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 12:07, Nancy Anthracite wrote: > > I have been working with the CDC with an eye to include in VistA the > option > > to report deidentified data to the Biosense project to help with the > early > > detection of disease such outbreaks, etc. Privacy does not have to > be > > violated in order to achieve most of what you are concerned about. > > Yeah, actually it does. > > In order to intervene with specific patient about their diabetes, the > individual patient must be contacted. In order to prevent potential > sex > partners from getting AIDs and dieing, the diseased patients identity, > and their current and recent sex partners need to be identified AND > contacts. > > in the later case you have to decide if your for or against murder. > > Ruben > > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log > files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD > SPLUNK! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 > > ___ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > -- > Nancy Anthracite > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log > files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD > SPLUNK! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 > > ___ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 > ___ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as eas
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
From the NYC Health Department web site http://www.nyc.gov/html/doh/html/ah/ahn1.shtml New York State began implementation of this law on June 1, 2000. ... 1 .What is this new law about, and what will it do? The new law requires doctors and laboratories to tell the Health Department about new cases of HIV infection and HIV illness, along with AIDS cases as they do now. It also requires doctors to discuss with their HIV infected patients those whom they may have exposed to HIV infection through sex or needle sharing. The Health Department or physicians can then notify people who are at risk about where to get counseling, testing, and treatment if they are infected. ... On Thursday 16 February 2006 14:54, Ruben Safir wrote: On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 14:27 -0500, Nancy Anthracite wrote: > Most if not all health departments require that contacts be notified. They > just don't allow the contact to be told who had the positive HIV test > without permission. > > I don't think anyone who has a positive HIV test is a priori a murderer. SOcial workers were prevented from telling partners that they sex partners were HIV positive. That was/is and continues to be MURDER. I've seen enough of it and I'm fed up with the excuses. Public health information in the specific and the general is a priority 1 public safety need. Everything else to my ears is utter nonsense and in fact dangerous. The health department, as far as I'm concerned, can ask for any information it wants. Unless your showing me that this information is being miss used, or used legally, I'm ABSOLUTELY not interested. In fact, they need to flush HIPPA which is just stupid. Ruben --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid3432&bid#0486&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 15:49 -0400, Joseph Conn wrote: > I'm with you, Nancy. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and > I'm surprised I haven't heard the ACLU filing an injunction against NYC > on this program. Since diabetes is not contagious, I don't think that > because the city may end up paying the cost of care for some of its > citizens gives it the right to snoop on all of its citizens. This > program isn't a slippery slope in my book, it's a toboggan run. > Oh yeah, you ever read about Tyhpoid Mary? And how about the HELL that the family of the young 14 year old girl who slowly died of AIDs in 1992 at Woodhul hospital after her boyfriend put the squash on informing her that he had AIDs. She died, her baby died, the boyfried was already dead and her FAMILY went through a living HELL Your position turns my stomach. And I just want to let your know that it is an OUTRAGE. > Joseph Conn > Staff writer > Modern Healthcare > Modern Physician > Heatlh IT Strategist > 312-649-5395 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Check out the NEW ModernPhysician.com, and register now for Modern > Physician Stat and Modern Physician Alert > > >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2/16/2006 1:27 PM >>> > Most if not all health departments require that contacts be notified. > They > just don't allow the contact to be told who had the positive HIV test > without > permission. > > I don't think anyone who has a positive HIV test is a priori a > murderer. > > If someone in NYC hears the Health Department is collecting this data > and does > not want a Health Department envelope arriving in his mailbox, he has > no way > to stop that at the moment. He cannot contact the Health Department > until > they contact him by mail. If he wishes to keep the fact he has > diabetes to > himself, that makes it very difficult if someone else uses the same > mailbox. > > And collecting every A1C that has been done does not even invade the > privacy > of just the diabetics. I am sure it is much easier just to grab all of > the > data than it is to write the programs to sort out all the A1Cs above 7, > so > they took the easy out. This represents a little more sliding down > that > slippery slope and the program is just getting started! > > > On Thursday 16 February 2006 13:29, Ruben Safir wrote: > On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 12:07, Nancy Anthracite wrote: > > I have been working with the CDC with an eye to include in VistA the > option > > to report deidentified data to the Biosense project to help with the > early > > detection of disease such outbreaks, etc. Privacy does not have to > be > > violated in order to achieve most of what you are concerned about. > > Yeah, actually it does. > > In order to intervene with specific patient about their diabetes, the > individual patient must be contacted. In order to prevent potential > sex > partners from getting AIDs and dieing, the diseased patients identity, > and their current and recent sex partners need to be identified AND > contacts. > > in the later case you have to decide if your for or against murder. > > Ruben > > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log > files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD > SPLUNK! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 > > ___ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > -- > Nancy Anthracite > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log > files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD > SPLUNK! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 > > ___ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members > > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 > ___ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engin
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 14:27 -0500, Nancy Anthracite wrote: > Most if not all health departments require that contacts be notified. They > just don't allow the contact to be told who had the positive HIV test without > permission. > > I don't think anyone who has a positive HIV test is a priori a murderer. > SOcial workers were prevented from telling partners that they sex partners were HIV positive. That was/is and continues to be MURDER. I've seen enough of it and I'm fed up with the excuses. Public health information in the specific and the general is a priority 1 public safety need. Everything else to my ears is utter nonsense and in fact dangerous. The health department, as far as I'm concerned, can ask for any information it wants. Unless your showing me that this information is being miss used, or used legally, I'm ABSOLUTELY not interested. In fact, they need to flush HIPPA which is just stupid. Ruben --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
I'm with you, Nancy. The road to Hell is paved with good intentions and I'm surprised I haven't heard the ACLU filing an injunction against NYC on this program. Since diabetes is not contagious, I don't think that because the city may end up paying the cost of care for some of its citizens gives it the right to snoop on all of its citizens. This program isn't a slippery slope in my book, it's a toboggan run. Joseph Conn Staff writer Modern Healthcare Modern Physician Heatlh IT Strategist 312-649-5395 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Check out the NEW ModernPhysician.com, and register now for Modern Physician Stat and Modern Physician Alert >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 2/16/2006 1:27 PM >>> Most if not all health departments require that contacts be notified. They just don't allow the contact to be told who had the positive HIV test without permission. I don't think anyone who has a positive HIV test is a priori a murderer. If someone in NYC hears the Health Department is collecting this data and does not want a Health Department envelope arriving in his mailbox, he has no way to stop that at the moment. He cannot contact the Health Department until they contact him by mail. If he wishes to keep the fact he has diabetes to himself, that makes it very difficult if someone else uses the same mailbox. And collecting every A1C that has been done does not even invade the privacy of just the diabetics. I am sure it is much easier just to grab all of the data than it is to write the programs to sort out all the A1Cs above 7, so they took the easy out. This represents a little more sliding down that slippery slope and the program is just getting started! On Thursday 16 February 2006 13:29, Ruben Safir wrote: On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 12:07, Nancy Anthracite wrote: > I have been working with the CDC with an eye to include in VistA the option > to report deidentified data to the Biosense project to help with the early > detection of disease such outbreaks, etc. Privacy does not have to be > violated in order to achieve most of what you are concerned about. Yeah, actually it does. In order to intervene with specific patient about their diabetes, the individual patient must be contacted. In order to prevent potential sex partners from getting AIDs and dieing, the diseased patients identity, and their current and recent sex partners need to be identified AND contacts. in the later case you have to decide if your for or against murder. Ruben --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Most if not all health departments require that contacts be notified. They just don't allow the contact to be told who had the positive HIV test without permission. I don't think anyone who has a positive HIV test is a priori a murderer. If someone in NYC hears the Health Department is collecting this data and does not want a Health Department envelope arriving in his mailbox, he has no way to stop that at the moment. He cannot contact the Health Department until they contact him by mail. If he wishes to keep the fact he has diabetes to himself, that makes it very difficult if someone else uses the same mailbox. And collecting every A1C that has been done does not even invade the privacy of just the diabetics. I am sure it is much easier just to grab all of the data than it is to write the programs to sort out all the A1Cs above 7, so they took the easy out. This represents a little more sliding down that slippery slope and the program is just getting started! On Thursday 16 February 2006 13:29, Ruben Safir wrote: On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 12:07, Nancy Anthracite wrote: > I have been working with the CDC with an eye to include in VistA the option > to report deidentified data to the Biosense project to help with the early > detection of disease such outbreaks, etc. Privacy does not have to be > violated in order to achieve most of what you are concerned about. Yeah, actually it does. In order to intervene with specific patient about their diabetes, the individual patient must be contacted. In order to prevent potential sex partners from getting AIDs and dieing, the diseased patients identity, and their current and recent sex partners need to be identified AND contacts. in the later case you have to decide if your for or against murder. Ruben --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
--- James Gray <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > We may be wasting bandwidth, but I do agree. > > Jim Gray > It's not an either/or situation, or at least it shouldn't be. You've both discussed valid functional requirements, and the question should be how you are to accomodate both. === Gregory Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> "All truth passes through three stages: First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident." --Arthur Schopenhauer --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
We may be wasting bandwidth, but I do agree. Jim Gray - Original Message - From: "Ruben Safir" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, February 16, 2006 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database Why do I have to fill Lipitor prescriptions without knowing the patients liver enzyme test results? Is that nuts or what Ruben On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 11:59, James Gray wrote: - Original Message - From: "Nancy Anthracite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > Where is patient control of their information? > Yes. Why can't I get the medical lab to send me a copy of my lab results? Why do I have to make special request to the lab each time to get them to send my primary care provider the results along with the specialist who ordered the results? Why can't I give the lab a list of my specialists once and get them to send each one a copy of my results each time I have a test done? Jim Gray --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Why do I have to fill Lipitor prescriptions without knowing the patients liver enzyme test results? Is that nuts or what Ruben On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 11:59, James Gray wrote: > - Original Message - > From: "Nancy Anthracite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Where is patient control of their information? > > > Yes. Why can't I get the medical lab to send me a copy of my lab results? > Why do I have to make special request to the lab each time to get them to > send my primary care provider the results along with the specialist who > ordered the results? Why can't I give the lab a list of my specialists once > and get them to send each one a copy of my results each time I have a test > done? > > Jim Gray > > > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files > for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 > ___ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 12:07, Nancy Anthracite wrote: > I have been working with the CDC with an eye to include in VistA the option > to > report deidentified data to the Biosense project to help with the early > detection of disease such outbreaks, etc. Privacy does not have to be > violated in order to achieve most of what you are concerned about. > Yeah, actually it does. In order to intervene with specific patient about their diabetes, the individual patient must be contacted. In order to prevent potential sex partners from getting AIDs and dieing, the diseased patients identity, and their current and recent sex partners need to be identified AND contacts. in the later case you have to decide if your for or against murder. Ruben --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
I have been working with the CDC with an eye to include in VistA the option to report deidentified data to the Biosense project to help with the early detection of disease such outbreaks, etc. Privacy does not have to be violated in order to achieve most of what you are concerned about. On Thursday 16 February 2006 12:09, Ruben Safir wrote: On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 11:17, Nancy Anthracite wrote: > Yes indeed. You all know I believe in VistA and what it can do, but I have > ever increasing anxiety about what this is going to do to privacy and thus > what impact it will have on the physician patient relationship. > > New York City Department of Health is getting the results of ALL A1C tests > in the city and patients are not allowed to opt out of having the data sent > and cannot even opt out of receiving mailings from the city until AFTER > they receive the first one. > > How can we protect the databases with our patients information if this sort > of thing is allowed? If the labs were not so much more convenient to tap > into than the physicians' records, this would probably have been demanded > from them, and when physicians become more widely computerized, they we, > patients and physicians, will all be at great risk. > > Where is patient control of their information? I think I've already said that I disagree that health records should be private. I STRONGLY disagree. The issue of privacy of health records has caused MURDER, especially with regard to AIDs and other infectious disease. And if someone is having a gun shot wound pulled out of their buttocks, I sure as hell want to know how it got in there, It's irresponsible, in my opinion, to be an advocate for increased privacy with medical records as this nation is teetering on the brink of so many lethal epidemics. And this is not limited to just infectious disease. This the billions of dollars this city spends on diabetes, I absolutely want the government to identify and monitor diabetics as early as possible, This saves lives and reduces to the future expenditures on the publics money. You can't have it both ways. You can't go running around like chicken little about healthcare privacy and then expect healthcare to be an interest of the public domain and then expect privacy from the government. Obviously we all depend on the government to maintain healthcare, to pay for healthcare, the be the insurer of last resort for healthcare, to subsidize healthcare, to mandate healthcare standards and to directly intervene into the healthcare concerns of every individual in this nation. There is not a single person in this nation that has not had the government directly intervene for the sake of their health and safety. The sharing and responsible use of healthcare information is critical to saving lives and maintaining the publics safety. PERIOD. > I am finding this more and more outrageous, but apparently I am trumped by > by everyone figuring the good is outweighed by the bad. This is such a > steep slippery slope. Having someone listen in on telephone conversations > is causing outrage in the congress, but not a PEEP from them about this. > > On Thursday 16 February 2006 10:24, Mike Schrom wrote: > As long as it's quality medical information FOR patients, not quality > medical information ABOUT patients, that is not specifically authorized. > > Kevin Toppenberg wrote: > > If HIS were standardized, I could anticipate a "Google" of the future > > coming up with fantastic ways of enhancing patient care by optimal > > presentation of patient data, i.e. scanning, filtering etc.. Already > > Google makes it very easy to look up quality medical information for > > patients on the internet. > > > > Kevin > > > > On 2/15/06, Gregory Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database > >> InformationWeek (02/13/06)No. 1076, P. 38; McGee, Marianne Kolbasuk > >> > >>Information technology is making strides in three critical areas of > >>medicine: The filtering and delivery of information to the patient's > >>bedside, allowing for personalized care; formatting existing data to > >> obtain a richer, more helpful picture of the patient's condition; and > >> the use of analytics to integrate data that yields new insights. IBM > >> Healthcare and Life Sciences' Brett Davis says the interim between the > >> discovery of new medical breakthroughs and their standard > >> application--which can take as long as 17 years--is decreasing thanks to > >> the use of IT and other new tools for research and collaboration. In > >> addition to helping enable more customized patient treatments, > >> health-care IT can cut the time and cost of testing new drugs and > >> improve the development of safer, more targeted drugs via data mining > >> and analysis. Analytic, pattern-recognition, and decision-support > >> software can examine data from countless sources, and they could emerge > >> as some of the most critical health-care tools. But delivering m
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
- Original Message - From: "Nancy Anthracite" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Where is patient control of their information? Yes. Why can't I get the medical lab to send me a copy of my lab results? Why do I have to make special request to the lab each time to get them to send my primary care provider the results along with the specialist who ordered the results? Why can't I give the lab a list of my specialists once and get them to send each one a copy of my results each time I have a test done? Jim Gray --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
On Thu, 2006-02-16 at 11:17, Nancy Anthracite wrote: > Yes indeed. You all know I believe in VistA and what it can do, but I have > ever increasing anxiety about what this is going to do to privacy and thus > what impact it will have on the physician patient relationship. > > New York City Department of Health is getting the results of ALL A1C tests in > the city and patients are not allowed to opt out of having the data sent and > cannot even opt out of receiving mailings from the city until AFTER they > receive the first one. > > How can we protect the databases with our patients information if this sort > of > thing is allowed? If the labs were not so much more convenient to tap into > than the physicians' records, this would probably have been demanded from > them, and when physicians become more widely computerized, they we, patients > and physicians, will all be at great risk. > > Where is patient control of their information? I think I've already said that I disagree that health records should be private. I STRONGLY disagree. The issue of privacy of health records has caused MURDER, especially with regard to AIDs and other infectious disease. And if someone is having a gun shot wound pulled out of their buttocks, I sure as hell want to know how it got in there, It's irresponsible, in my opinion, to be an advocate for increased privacy with medical records as this nation is teetering on the brink of so many lethal epidemics. And this is not limited to just infectious disease. This the billions of dollars this city spends on diabetes, I absolutely want the government to identify and monitor diabetics as early as possible, This saves lives and reduces to the future expenditures on the publics money. You can't have it both ways. You can't go running around like chicken little about healthcare privacy and then expect healthcare to be an interest of the public domain and then expect privacy from the government. Obviously we all depend on the government to maintain healthcare, to pay for healthcare, the be the insurer of last resort for healthcare, to subsidize healthcare, to mandate healthcare standards and to directly intervene into the healthcare concerns of every individual in this nation. There is not a single person in this nation that has not had the government directly intervene for the sake of their health and safety. The sharing and responsible use of healthcare information is critical to saving lives and maintaining the publics safety. PERIOD. > > I am finding this more and more outrageous, but apparently I am trumped by by > everyone figuring the good is outweighed by the bad. This is such a steep > slippery slope. Having someone listen in on telephone conversations is > causing outrage in the congress, but not a PEEP from them about this. > > On Thursday 16 February 2006 10:24, Mike Schrom wrote: > As long as it's quality medical information FOR patients, not quality > medical information ABOUT patients, that is not specifically authorized. > > Kevin Toppenberg wrote: > > If HIS were standardized, I could anticipate a "Google" of the future > > coming up with fantastic ways of enhancing patient care by optimal > > presentation of patient data, i.e. scanning, filtering etc.. Already > > Google makes it very easy to look up quality medical information for > > patients on the internet. > > > > Kevin > > > > On 2/15/06, Gregory Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > >>A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database > >> InformationWeek (02/13/06)No. 1076, P. 38; McGee, Marianne Kolbasuk > >> > >>Information technology is making strides in three critical areas of > >>medicine: The filtering and delivery of information to the patient's > >>bedside, allowing for personalized care; formatting existing data to obtain > >>a richer, more helpful picture of the patient's condition; and the use of > >>analytics to integrate data that yields new insights. IBM Healthcare and > >>Life Sciences' Brett Davis says the interim between the discovery of new > >>medical breakthroughs and their standard application--which can take as > >> long as 17 years--is decreasing thanks to the use of IT and other new > >> tools for research and collaboration. In addition to helping enable more > >> customized patient treatments, health-care IT can cut the time and cost of > >> testing new drugs and improve the development of safer, more targeted > >> drugs via data mining and analysis. Analytic, pattern-recognition, and > >> decision-support software can examine data from countless sources, and > >> they could emerge as some of the most critical health-care tools. But > >> delivering more timely and customized bedside care requires a national > >> infrastructure for electronic health data that facilitates the exchange of > >> standardized medical records, which President Bush flagged as a national > >> goal to be realized by 2014. "The key tipping point will be in getting the > >> national health IT inf
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
Yes indeed. You all know I believe in VistA and what it can do, but I have ever increasing anxiety about what this is going to do to privacy and thus what impact it will have on the physician patient relationship. New York City Department of Health is getting the results of ALL A1C tests in the city and patients are not allowed to opt out of having the data sent and cannot even opt out of receiving mailings from the city until AFTER they receive the first one. How can we protect the databases with our patients information if this sort of thing is allowed? If the labs were not so much more convenient to tap into than the physicians' records, this would probably have been demanded from them, and when physicians become more widely computerized, they we, patients and physicians, will all be at great risk. Where is patient control of their information? I am finding this more and more outrageous, but apparently I am trumped by by everyone figuring the good is outweighed by the bad. This is such a steep slippery slope. Having someone listen in on telephone conversations is causing outrage in the congress, but not a PEEP from them about this. On Thursday 16 February 2006 10:24, Mike Schrom wrote: As long as it's quality medical information FOR patients, not quality medical information ABOUT patients, that is not specifically authorized. Kevin Toppenberg wrote: > If HIS were standardized, I could anticipate a "Google" of the future > coming up with fantastic ways of enhancing patient care by optimal > presentation of patient data, i.e. scanning, filtering etc.. Already > Google makes it very easy to look up quality medical information for > patients on the internet. > > Kevin > > On 2/15/06, Gregory Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: >>A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database >> InformationWeek (02/13/06)No. 1076, P. 38; McGee, Marianne Kolbasuk >> >>Information technology is making strides in three critical areas of >>medicine: The filtering and delivery of information to the patient's >>bedside, allowing for personalized care; formatting existing data to obtain >>a richer, more helpful picture of the patient's condition; and the use of >>analytics to integrate data that yields new insights. IBM Healthcare and >>Life Sciences' Brett Davis says the interim between the discovery of new >>medical breakthroughs and their standard application--which can take as >> long as 17 years--is decreasing thanks to the use of IT and other new >> tools for research and collaboration. In addition to helping enable more >> customized patient treatments, health-care IT can cut the time and cost of >> testing new drugs and improve the development of safer, more targeted >> drugs via data mining and analysis. Analytic, pattern-recognition, and >> decision-support software can examine data from countless sources, and >> they could emerge as some of the most critical health-care tools. But >> delivering more timely and customized bedside care requires a national >> infrastructure for electronic health data that facilitates the exchange of >> standardized medical records, which President Bush flagged as a national >> goal to be realized by 2014. "The key tipping point will be in getting the >> national health IT infrastructure in place," notes Davis. Other challenges >> include the increasingly pressing issues of security, privacy, and ethical >> data usage as more and more health-care information becomes electronically >> accessible. Progress can also be hindered by hesitancy among some >> researchers to share information. Click Here to View Full Article >> >>== >>Gregory Woodhouse >>[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> >>"If you give someone Fortran, he has Fortran. >>If you give someone Lisp, he has any language he pleases." >>--Guy L. Steele, Jr. > > --- > This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log > files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes > searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! > http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=k&kid3432&bid#0486&dat1642 > ___ > Hardhats-members mailing list > Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net > https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members -- Nancy Anthracite --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep throug
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
As long as it's quality medical information FOR patients, not quality medical information ABOUT patients, that is not specifically authorized. Kevin Toppenberg wrote: If HIS were standardized, I could anticipate a "Google" of the future coming up with fantastic ways of enhancing patient care by optimal presentation of patient data, i.e. scanning, filtering etc.. Already Google makes it very easy to look up quality medical information for patients on the internet. Kevin On 2/15/06, Gregory Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database InformationWeek (02/13/06)No. 1076, P. 38; McGee, Marianne Kolbasuk Information technology is making strides in three critical areas of medicine: The filtering and delivery of information to the patient's bedside, allowing for personalized care; formatting existing data to obtain a richer, more helpful picture of the patient's condition; and the use of analytics to integrate data that yields new insights. IBM Healthcare and Life Sciences' Brett Davis says the interim between the discovery of new medical breakthroughs and their standard application--which can take as long as 17 years--is decreasing thanks to the use of IT and other new tools for research and collaboration. In addition to helping enable more customized patient treatments, health-care IT can cut the time and cost of testing new drugs and improve the development of safer, more targeted drugs via data mining and analysis. Analytic, pattern-recognition, and decision-support software can examine data from countless sources, and they could emerge as some of the most critical health-care tools. But delivering more timely and customized bedside care requires a national infrastructure for electronic health data that facilitates the exchange of standardized medical records, which President Bush flagged as a national goal to be realized by 2014. "The key tipping point will be in getting the national health IT infrastructure in place," notes Davis. Other challenges include the increasingly pressing issues of security, privacy, and ethical data usage as more and more health-care information becomes electronically accessible. Progress can also be hindered by hesitancy among some researchers to share information. Click Here to View Full Article == Gregory Woodhouse [EMAIL PROTECTED] "If you give someone Fortran, he has Fortran. If you give someone Lisp, he has any language he pleases." --Guy L. Steele, Jr. --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=k&kid3432&bid#0486&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid=103432&bid=230486&dat=121642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
Re: [Hardhats-members] A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database
If HIS were standardized, I could anticipate a "Google" of the future coming up with fantastic ways of enhancing patient care by optimal presentation of patient data, i.e. scanning, filtering etc.. Already Google makes it very easy to look up quality medical information for patients on the internet. Kevin On 2/15/06, Gregory Woodhouse <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > A Pill, a Scalpel, a Database > InformationWeek (02/13/06)No. 1076, P. 38; McGee, Marianne Kolbasuk > > Information technology is making strides in three critical areas of > medicine: The filtering and delivery of information to the patient's > bedside, allowing for personalized care; formatting existing data to obtain > a richer, more helpful picture of the patient's condition; and the use of > analytics to integrate data that yields new insights. IBM Healthcare and > Life Sciences' Brett Davis says the interim between the discovery of new > medical breakthroughs and their standard application--which can take as long > as 17 years--is decreasing thanks to the use of IT and other new tools for > research and collaboration. In addition to helping enable more customized > patient treatments, health-care IT can cut the time and cost of testing new > drugs and improve the development of safer, more targeted drugs via data > mining and analysis. Analytic, pattern-recognition, and decision-support > software can examine data from countless sources, and they could emerge as > some of the most critical health-care tools. But delivering more timely and > customized bedside care requires a national infrastructure for electronic > health data that facilitates the exchange of standardized medical records, > which President Bush flagged as a national goal to be realized by 2014. "The > key tipping point will be in getting the national health IT infrastructure > in place," notes Davis. Other challenges include the increasingly pressing > issues of security, privacy, and ethical data usage as more and more > health-care information becomes electronically accessible. Progress can also > be hindered by hesitancy among some researchers to share information. > Click Here to View Full Article > > == > Gregory Woodhouse > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > "If you give someone Fortran, he has Fortran. > If you give someone Lisp, he has any language he pleases." > --Guy L. Steele, Jr. > > > > > --- This SF.net email is sponsored by: Splunk Inc. Do you grep through log files for problems? Stop! Download the new AJAX search engine that makes searching your log files as easy as surfing the web. DOWNLOAD SPLUNK! http://sel.as-us.falkag.net/sel?cmd=lnk&kid3432&bid#0486&dat1642 ___ Hardhats-members mailing list Hardhats-members@lists.sourceforge.net https://lists.sourceforge.net/lists/listinfo/hardhats-members
