Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping
Interesting! Is PPC made by CWT, Seasonic, or someone else? I still need to replace my caps in the Antec for my old XP box I'm giving the kids but think I'd rather just buy new be done with it. ;) Hayes Elkins wrote: I stand corrected! The dual 12v rail did not come about because of a mandate from Intel engineering - but rather from the one of many asinine EU standards pushed out this decade: http://www.overclock.net/faqs/88626-info-do-you-need-multiple-12v.html [snip] Why did multiple 12V rails come about? Multiple rails came about because the EU mandated that the power on a single rail should not exceed 240VA (12V x 20A). Intel then stipulated in the ATX12V v2.xx standard that if the power on a 12V rail was likely to exceed 240VA, a second 12V rail needed to be engineered. For practical purposes, a limit of 18A was used, allowing for 2A headroom. Manufacturers replied by mass-producing multiple rail power supplies, using several types of engineering. Some power supplies are well engineered, and the 12V rails are truly separated with separate transformers. However, others draw power from one single transformer and the rails are only separated after transforming takes place. The issue with multiple rails is that the power per rail is relatively low, which unfortunately often results in the use of inferior parts. [/snip] I think the EU is trying to compete with California on who can pass the most misguided, outright stupid energy regulations. What's next, banning diesel? :) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 07:59:45 -0400 Long ago Intel required dual 12v rails for power supplies in systems based on that unmitigated disaster called Prescott, the thought being that a dedicated rail for CPU and another for peripherals would ensure clean power and push manufacturers to beef up wattage. Forward to today where we now have GPUs that surpass power draw of most CPUs and how any one component can surge in draw, Intel has backpeddled and now sanctions (as per their online builders spec guide) the use of massive 12v single rail power supplies because of how dynamic these draws can be. What good is a dedicated 20A 12V rail when a GPU can have a peak of 25-30A? Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 20:26:18 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping Is a single 60A 12V rail better than multiple 12V rails totaling ~60A? Too bad the Red version is not on sale also! Who makes the Silencer Quad for PCPC? Al wrote: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009 $149 free shipping http://promotions.newegg.com/PS/041508/index.html?cm_sp=SubCat_PowerSupplies-_-PS041508-_- Al Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _ With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_mobile_052008 _ Get Free (PRODUCT) RED™ Emoticons, Winks and Display Pics. http://joinred.spaces.live.com?ocid=TXT_HMTG_prodredemoticons_052008 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping
According to PC Power and Cooling, no. http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/#m8 - Begin of copy from PC Power and Cooling - 8. ARE MULTIPLE 12-VOLT RAILS BETTER THAN A SINGLE 12-VOLT RAIL? With all the hype about multiple 12-volt rails (ads claim that two rails is better than one, five is better than four, etc.), you'd think it was a better design. Unfortunately, it's not! Here are the facts: A large, single 12-volt rail (without a 240VA limit) can transfer 100% of the 12-volt output from the PSU to the computer, while a multi-rail 12-volt design has distribution losses of up to 30% of the power supply's rating. Those losses occur because power literally gets trapped on under-utilized rails. For example, if the 12-volt rail that powers the CPU is rated for 17 amps and the CPU only uses 7A, the remaining 10A is unusable, since it is isolated from the rest of the system. Since the maximum current from any one 12-volt rail of a multiple-rail PSU is limited to 20 amps (240VA / 12 volts = 20 amps), PCs with high-performance components that draw over 20 amps from the same rail are subject to over-current shutdowns. With power requirements for multiple processors and graphics cards continuing to grow, the multiple-rail design, with its 240VA limit per rail, is basically obsolete. - End of copy from PC Power and Cooling - On the same page there is info on other myths on Power Supply. Tim The Beave Lider E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of j maccraw Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 8:26 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping Is a single 60A 12V rail better than multiple 12V rails totaling ~60A? Too bad the Red version is not on sale also! Who makes the Silencer Quad for PCPC? Al wrote: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009 $149 free shipping http://promotions.newegg.com/PS/041508/index.html?cm_sp=SubCat_PowerSupplies -_-PS041508-_- Al Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping
Uh...according to the article you quote - the answer is yes From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Date: Sat, 10 May 2008 09:40:22 -0700 Subject: Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping According to PC Power and Cooling, no. http://www.pcpower.com/technology/myths/#m8 - Begin of copy from PC Power and Cooling - 8. ARE MULTIPLE 12-VOLT RAILS BETTER THAN A SINGLE 12-VOLT RAIL? With all the hype about multiple 12-volt rails (ads claim that two rails is better than one, five is better than four, etc.), you'd think it was a better design. Unfortunately, it's not! Here are the facts: A large, single 12-volt rail (without a 240VA limit) can transfer 100% of the 12-volt output from the PSU to the computer, while a multi-rail 12-volt design has distribution losses of up to 30% of the power supply's rating. Those losses occur because power literally gets trapped on under-utilized rails. For example, if the 12-volt rail that powers the CPU is rated for 17 amps and the CPU only uses 7A, the remaining 10A is unusable, since it is isolated from the rest of the system. Since the maximum current from any one 12-volt rail of a multiple-rail PSU is limited to 20 amps (240VA / 12 volts = 20 amps), PCs with high-performance components that draw over 20 amps from the same rail are subject to over-current shutdowns. With power requirements for multiple processors and graphics cards continuing to grow, the multiple-rail design, with its 240VA limit per rail, is basically obsolete. - End of copy from PC Power and Cooling - On the same page there is info on other myths on Power Supply. Tim The Beave Lider E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of j maccraw Sent: Thursday, May 08, 2008 8:26 PM To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping Is a single 60A 12V rail better than multiple 12V rails totaling ~60A? Too bad the Red version is not on sale also! Who makes the Silencer Quad for PCPC? Al wrote: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009 $149 free shipping http://promotions.newegg.com/PS/041508/index.html?cm_sp=SubCat_PowerSupplies -_-PS041508-_- Al Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _ Stay in touch when you're away with Windows Live Messenger. http://www.windowslive.com/messenger/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_messenger_052008
Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping
Long ago Intel required dual 12v rails for power supplies in systems based on that unmitigated disaster called Prescott, the thought being that a dedicated rail for CPU and another for peripherals would ensure clean power and push manufacturers to beef up wattage. Forward to today where we now have GPUs that surpass power draw of most CPUs and how any one component can surge in draw, Intel has backpeddled and now sanctions (as per their online builders spec guide) the use of massive 12v single rail power supplies because of how dynamic these draws can be. What good is a dedicated 20A 12V rail when a GPU can have a peak of 25-30A? Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 20:26:18 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping Is a single 60A 12V rail better than multiple 12V rails totaling ~60A? Too bad the Red version is not on sale also! Who makes the Silencer Quad for PCPC? Al wrote: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009 $149 free shipping http://promotions.newegg.com/PS/041508/index.html?cm_sp=SubCat_PowerSupplies-_-PS041508-_- Al Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _ With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_mobile_052008
Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping
I stand corrected! The dual 12v rail did not come about because of a mandate from Intel engineering - but rather from the one of many asinine EU standards pushed out this decade: http://www.overclock.net/faqs/88626-info-do-you-need-multiple-12v.html [snip] Why did multiple 12V rails come about? Multiple rails came about because the EU mandated that the power on a single rail should not exceed 240VA (12V x 20A). Intel then stipulated in the ATX12V v2.xx standard that if the power on a 12V rail was likely to exceed 240VA, a second 12V rail needed to be engineered. For practical purposes, a limit of 18A was used, allowing for 2A headroom. Manufacturers replied by mass-producing multiple rail power supplies, using several types of engineering. Some power supplies are well engineered, and the 12V rails are truly separated with separate transformers. However, others draw power from one single transformer and the rails are only separated after transforming takes place. The issue with multiple rails is that the power per rail is relatively low, which unfortunately often results in the use of inferior parts. [/snip] I think the EU is trying to compete with California on who can pass the most misguided, outright stupid energy regulations. What's next, banning diesel? :) From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: RE: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping Date: Fri, 9 May 2008 07:59:45 -0400 Long ago Intel required dual 12v rails for power supplies in systems based on that unmitigated disaster called Prescott, the thought being that a dedicated rail for CPU and another for peripherals would ensure clean power and push manufacturers to beef up wattage. Forward to today where we now have GPUs that surpass power draw of most CPUs and how any one component can surge in draw, Intel has backpeddled and now sanctions (as per their online builders spec guide) the use of massive 12v single rail power supplies because of how dynamic these draws can be. What good is a dedicated 20A 12V rail when a GPU can have a peak of 25-30A? Date: Thu, 8 May 2008 20:26:18 -0700 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hardware@hardwaregroup.com Subject: Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping Is a single 60A 12V rail better than multiple 12V rails totaling ~60A? Too bad the Red version is not on sale also! Who makes the Silencer Quad for PCPC? Al wrote: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009 $149 free shipping http://promotions.newegg.com/PS/041508/index.html?cm_sp=SubCat_PowerSupplies-_-PS041508-_- Al Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ _ With Windows Live for mobile, your contacts travel with you. http://www.windowslive.com/mobile/overview.html?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_WL_Refresh_mobile_052008 _ Get Free (PRODUCT) REDâ„¢ Emoticons, Winks and Display Pics. http://joinred.spaces.live.com?ocid=TXT_HMTG_prodredemoticons_052008
Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping
That is a nice power supply. In fact I have one, but got it over one and a half years ago for a lot more than that. The only problem you will find is that the power supply is a lot longer from front to back than standard power supplies, you will probably need to get a new case or modify existing case. Good lcuk with the awesome power supply, Tim The Beave Lider E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:13 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009 $149 free shipping http://promotions.newegg.com/PS/041508/index.html?cm_sp=SubCat_PowerSupplies -_-PS041508-_- Al
Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping
Tnx Beave, Good point, but for us that use Lian-Li cases, the extra length is not a real problem; unless the top 2 bays have CD/DVD-roms. Still thinking on this. :) Best, Duncan At 16:33 05/08/2008 -0700, you wrote: That is a nice power supply. In fact I have one, but got it over one and a half years ago for a lot more than that. The only problem you will find is that the power supply is a lot longer from front to back than standard power supplies, you will probably need to get a new case or modify existing case. Good lcuk with the awesome power supply, Tim The Beave Lider E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] MSN: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Al Sent: Wednesday, May 07, 2008 7:13 PM To: The Hardware List Subject: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009 $149 free shipping http://promotions.newegg.com/PS/041508/index.html?cm_sp=SubCat_PowerSupplies -_-PS041508-_- Al
Re: [H] PC Power Cooling S75QB 750W EPS12V Power Supply $149 free shipping
Is a single 60A 12V rail better than multiple 12V rails totaling ~60A? Too bad the Red version is not on sale also! Who makes the Silencer Quad for PCPC? Al wrote: http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817703009 $149 free shipping http://promotions.newegg.com/PS/041508/index.html?cm_sp=SubCat_PowerSupplies-_-PS041508-_- Al Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. http://mobile.yahoo.com/;_ylt=Ahu06i62sR8HDtDypao8Wcj9tAcJ
