Re: [ha-Safran]: Shop That Speaks Yiddish Needs a Rich Man's Help

2010-08-30 Thread Henry Hollander
Dear Mr. Hoberman, Rachel and fellow Safranists,

 In the note 
that Mr. Hoberman write and Rachel posted to our list Mr. Hoberman 
posits that he may be venting and I certainly hope that his overall 
thoughts are more moderate. I would like to parse the statements of 
Joseph Berger, the author of the NYT's article, a little differently. 
The question is: how can these two statements be reconciled:

1) The survival of Yiddish in America is an on-the-one-hand, 
on-the-other-hand story. Yiddish, once the language of the Jews of 
Eastern Europe, is undoubtedly moribund, with its last full-throated 
speakers, Holocaust survivors, now well into their 80s and 90s.

and 2) On the other hand, the language is booming among Hasidim, for 
whom it is a lingua franca, mushrooming so prolifically that by some 
estimates the ultra-Orthodox will form a majority of American Jews by 
century's end.

Yiddish, the language of the Jews of Eastern Europe is 
moribund. There are few if any living authors who could write or 
speak in Yiddish that is specific to the geographic particularities 
as specified in a linguistic atlas of European Yiddish. The only 
exceptions to this are those Soviet or Soviet immigrant speakers of 
Yiddish still in the former Soviet Union or in the post-Soviet 
dispersion who are speaking Yiddish (at my synagogue I experience the 
dissonance of accent between former Muscovites and former Odessans). 
These are the author's full-throated speakers. The production of 
literature from this population is minimal and undistinguished.  Its 
communicative capabilities are contracting. This is a moribund 
language. Kal ve-homer to American Yiddish productivity that derived 
from that tradition.

 The ultra-Orthodox community is the locus of increased 
Yiddish demographic representation. The printed production in the 
ultra community is comprised of translations of Hebrew seforim into 
Yiddish, internal sectarian documents, kosher fiction, textbooks 
and weekly and monthly periodicals. While it is a source of new 
Yiddish speakers (I was taken aback the first time I saw a five year 
old speaking fluent Yiddish) the Haredi Yiddish is a different 
Yiddish. It may grow  up to be something important in time. It is 
part of circumscribed tri-lingualism of Yiddish, English and 
(Yeshivish) Hebrew. As a spoken language it is not moribund and as a 
written language it is not entirely moribund. But ultimately it point 
the direction away from Yiddish towards something more like 
Judeo-English (not at all to be confused with Yinglish), a distinct 
separatist linguistic phenomenon resident in the English speaking and 
anglophone Jewish world.

 Berger of the Times, makes a prediction about the haredi 
community that places them as the future majority among American Jews 
and includes Hasidim in the short list of groups that patronize CYCO. 
I am sceptical about Berger's demographics. A lot can happen in 
ninety years. However, my frustration with the Haredi community and 
Yiddish is that they ignore, abhor, or are ignorant of what is in 
already available in Yiddish. The Yiddish literature Hasid is 
generally unaware of the important and diverting (and Kosher) works 
on Hasidism in Yiddish by Menashe Ungar, Samuel Hirsh Setzer and B. 
Justman. As time passes the haredi version of Yiddish, as it evolves 
new grammar and vocabulary, will make the works of the older 
Yiddish authors seem less and less accessible. Berger is not wrong in 
fearing that this community will not support the type of books CYCO 
has. The disappearance of a community oriented around these books 
will be a sad thing. It may be impossible to resist in the long run, 
but the effort is worthwhile. I don't perceive any negative bias in 
Berger's article toward Hasidim and find it unfair to chastise him 
for such. If the challenges that CYCO faces were only the challenges 
that face Yiddish CYCO would have much better prospects. That is a 
subject I could discuss with anyone who is interested and would be 
glad at some other time and in some other place.

I for one am grateful to Mr. Berger for the time and 
effort that he has put in to bringing the current situation at CYCO 
to a larger audience. There is such a thing as bad publicity for 
Yiddish, but Mr. Berger's article is anything but.



All the best,

Henry Hollander




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[ha-Safran]: Shop That Speaks Yiddish Needs a Rich Man's Help

2010-08-25 Thread Rachel Leket-Mor
Shalom safranim,



This note was posted on another list I subscribe to:



Rachel Leket-Mor



From: jewish-langua...@googlegroups.com 
[mailto:jewish-langua...@googlegroups.com] On Behalf 
ofrdhober...@notes.cc.sunysb.edu
Sent: Tuesday, August 24, 2010 6:17 PM
To: jewish-langua...@googlegroups.com
Subject: [Jewish Languages] NY Times article



I just wrote the following to the New York Times, in response to 
today's article Shop That Speaks Yiddish Needs a Rich Man's Help by 
Joseph Berger 
(http://www.nytimes.com/2010/08/25/nyregion/25about.html).  It 
probably won't be printed, so I'm venting here, among friends.

How can you write Yiddish . . . is undoubtedly moribund, with its 
last full-throated speakers, Holocaust survivors, now well into their 
80s and 90s, and two sentences later On the other hand, the 
language is booming among Hasidim, for whom it is a lingua franca, 
mushrooming so prolifically that by some estimates the ultra-Orthodox 
will form a majority of American Jews by century's end?  This 
nonsensical doublethink is characteristic of much discussion of 
Yiddish in recent years.  What lies behind it is a classic case of 
the invisibility of the other.  What you mean is that Yiddish is 
moribund among people LIKE US, people who dress and act like us, who 
might read and discuss Sholom Aleichem and Haim Grade and frequent Hy 
Wolfe's bookstore.  Those Hasidim don't count, they're too 
strange.  Alternatively, what you might mean is that actually 
speaking the language is worthless; only literature counts.  If 
that's the idea, then through most of the last thousand years Yiddish 
was a golem, which came to life only in the nineteenth century when 
modern sorts of literature began to be written and read.

Bob Hoberman
(robert.hober...@stonybrook.edu)

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