Re: [ha-Safran]: Position announcement
I didn't reply to this initially, but since I did not see this mentioned by anyone else, I want to respond. I too, prefer to see more information listed. However, if you recall, the position was posted by a search firm. It is standard practice for search firms to protect the name of the client, and they often do not post salary ranges. Their job is to identify people who are potential fits for the position (both by advertising and targeted calling), then whittle down the number of applicants and present the people they feel are best suited to the client. Confidentiality helps protect the client from being bombarded with resumes, and protects the process (the search firm has to make it's money for what they've been hired to do). Salary information is generally disclosed in one-on-one conversation at some point during the process, and does usually depend on the experience and expertise level of the person being hired. Also, you want people to apply based on interest in the position, not because they want the amount of money being offered (or for that matter, not apply because the range is too low - there's often wiggle room for the right person.) Librarians don't generally get calls from headhunters so we aren't as familiar with the process, but this is perfectly normal. >Amy Amy Wissoker Graham (former researcher for a major international search firm) Ray Doblitz Memorial Library Congregation Ohev Shalom Wallingford, PA [EMAIL PROTECTED] Messages and opinions expressed on Hasafran are those of the individual author and are not necessarily endorsed by the Association of Jewish Libraries (AJL) === Submissions for Ha-Safran, send to: Hasafran @ lists.acs.ohio-state.edu SUBscribing, SIGNOFF commands send to: Listproc @ lists.acs.ohio-state.edu Questions, problems, complaints, compliments;-) send to: galron.1 @ osu.edu Ha-Safran Archives: Current: http://www.mail-archive.com/hasafran%40lists.acs.ohio-state.edu/maillist.html History: http://www.mail-archive.com/hasafran%40lists.acs.ohio-state.edu/history.html AJL HomePage http://www.JewishLibraries.org
Re: [ha-Safran]: Position Announcement
I posted this question to the ha-Safran list on January 18th: "Is it the feeling of this list that it is not particularly important to have an idea of a salary before applying for a position?" Some people posted responses to the list and others replied to me privately. My response is "It's important!" I'm semi-retired. I'm not looking for a job nor will I be. When I was a library director, I composed job announcements and always included as specific a salary range as possible as well as the exact benefits (medical coverage and when it would begin, pension plan and when it would begin, number of annual vacation days, number of annual sick days) for all library positions, whether professional or clerical. I didn't want to waste my time or the candidates' time by interviewing people for whom the salary and benefits wouldn't be acceptable. I've never been fond of job announcements that present a lengthy list of what's required of a potential employee but no description of what an employer is offering in exchange. I loved the profession I worked in,but a fair and equitable salary and benefits were essential. Here are the responses to the question. "Often public postings for higher level positions do not include the salary for various reasons. Those who may be interested usually call and get the information directly, as you did. I don't see it as an issue for potential candidates." "I definitely think it is worth posting. But perhaps more important it would be nice to know which "NY college" he is talking about!!! Why wouldn't he post that information??? I felt that particular job advertisement was especially secretive, since he didn't clearly identify the institution or the salary expected. Very suspicious if you ask me." "The salary will not be below the average salary of a library director in New York and it is good that the two sides can negotiate it." "I'm still trying to imagine applying for a position without knowing where, exactly, you're applying to! Why all the secrecy? Another list I'm on has a rule that no position announcements can be posted without a salary range. I think this is only fair." "It seems to me that salary and benefits are data critical to making an informed decision about a position. However, when and how such data are revealed varies. At some institutions, the salary is mentioned in the advertisement; at others, it is revealed as part of an interview process. It seems to me that an applicant can always ask; the type of answer might reveal something about the likely work environment." "I think wanting to know the salary range before applying is eminently sensible. I do not understand why a potential employer would be secretive about it." "As the director of a library system, I don't include salary, but I answer the question immediately when asked. In planning budget, I have used the ARL yearly salary report." "In academia, this is how job advertisements are done. I read the job list for my field often, and I do not see any salary figures mentioned. Sometimes they say "salaries are competitive," but that's about it. Salary questions come up during the interviewing and selection process. I noticed this particular job is at a college, so maybe the people posting the ad are following the procedures for academic jobs? Maybe with professor jobs, salaries are consistent enough across the country that there's no reason to mention them up front. In my field, most first interviews occur at a conference or on the phone before it, so the candidate is not putting out money or traveling a long distance specifically for that job. By the time they are flying for a specific job, they are finalists, and I do think by then salary possibilities have usually been discussed between the chair and the candidate. But the protocol may be quite different for librarian jobs, especially if first interviews are not done at one time in one place. You were well within your rights to ask about the salary for that librarian job." "I would be interested in knowing the salary of a position." "This individual feels it would be helpful for those potential candidates to know the salary range." Joy Joy Rich, MLS Brooklyn, NY Messages and opinions expressed on Hasafran are those of the individual author and are not necessarily endorsed by the Association of Jewish Libraries (AJL) === Submissions for Ha-Safran, send to: Hasafran @ lists.acs.ohio-state.edu SUBscribing, SIGNOFF commands send to: Listproc @ lists.acs.ohio-state.edu Questions, problems, complaints, compliments;-) send to: galron.1 @ osu.edu Ha-Safran Archives: Current: http://www.mail-archive.com/hasafran%40lists.acs.ohio-state.edu/maillist.html History: http://www.mail-archive.com/hasafran%40lists.acs.ohio-state.edu/history.html AJL HomePage http://www.JewishLibraries.org
RE: [ha-Safran]: Position Announcement
I think wanting to know the salary range before applying is eminently sensible. I do not understand why a potential employer would be secretive about it. Shmuel Ben-Gad, Gelman Library, George Washington University. Messages and opinions expressed on Hasafran are those of the individual author and are not necessarily endorsed by the Association of Jewish Libraries (AJL) === Submissions for Ha-Safran, send to: Hasafran @ lists.acs.ohio-state.edu SUBscribing, SIGNOFF commands send to: Listproc @ lists.acs.ohio-state.edu Questions, problems, complaints, compliments;-) send to: galron.1 @ osu.edu Ha-Safran Archives: Current: http://www.mail-archive.com/hasafran%40lists.acs.ohio-state.edu/maillist.html History: http://www.mail-archive.com/hasafran%40lists.acs.ohio-state.edu/history.html AJL HomePage http://www.JewishLibraries.org
RE: [ha-Safran]: Position Announcement
--- Joy Rich wrote: > Is it the feeling of this list that it is not > particularly important > to have an idea of a > salary before applying for a position? Daniel Strassman works for Joel H. Paul & Associates, Inc. Executive Recruiting & Consulting. Judging from orther ads on the site (see http://joelpaul.com/Current_Searches.html), it seems that JHP&A prefers not to disclose salary ranges. The closest suggestion was "A generous compensation and benefit package is offered." The desciptions of some of the employers are interesting, but vague. "a 152-bed skilled nursing facility affiliated with the Jewish community" "Prominent, national Zionist organization that supports and promotes the State of Israel" "major NYC-based Jewish University" "a major Jewish university in Manhattan" Messages and opinions expressed on Hasafran are those of the individual author and are not necessarily endorsed by the Association of Jewish Libraries (AJL) === Submissions for Ha-Safran, send to: Hasafran @ lists.acs.ohio-state.edu SUBscribing, SIGNOFF commands send to: Listproc @ lists.acs.ohio-state.edu Questions, problems, complaints, compliments;-) send to: galron.1 @ osu.edu Ha-Safran Archives: Current: http://www.mail-archive.com/hasafran%40lists.acs.ohio-state.edu/maillist.html History: http://www.mail-archive.com/hasafran%40lists.acs.ohio-state.edu/history.html AJL HomePage http://www.JewishLibraries.org
RE: [ha-Safran]: Position Announcement
Often public postings for higher level positions do not include the salary for various reasons. Those who may be interested usually call and get the information directly, as you did. I don't see it as an issue for potential candidates. X-Original-To: Hasafran@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 7.1.0.9 X-Spam-Score: 1.30 (*) [Tag at 5.00] MISSING_SUBJECT X-CanItPRO-Stream: lists X-Canit-Stats-ID: Bayes signature not available X-Scanned-By: CanIt (www . roaringpenguin . com) on 128.146.216.131 X-Listprocessor-Version: 8.1 -- ListProcessor(tm) by CREN Lisa Lisa Silverman Library Director Sinai Temple Blumenthal Library 10400 Wilshire Blvd. Los Angeles, CA 90024 310-481-3215 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
RE: [ha-Safran]: Position Announcement
Daniel Strassman posted an ad to ha-Safran on January 16th about a position for a Director of Libraries at a New York college. I wrote to him and asked him to let us know the approximate salary or the salary range and the accompanying benefits so that potential candidates could determine if these were suitable for the position and their needs. Mr. Strassman replied that his client gave him a figure and would be willing to go higher for a very strong candidate, but Mr. Strassman does not want to post the figure. He doesn't feel that this will deter candidates from responding. Is it the feeling of this list that it is not particularly important to have an idea of a salary before applying for a position? Joy Rich, MLS Brooklyn, NY Messages and opinions expressed on Hasafran are those of the individual author and are not necessarily endorsed by the Association of Jewish Libraries (AJL) === Submissions for Ha-Safran, send to: Hasafran @ lists.acs.ohio-state.edu SUBscribing, SIGNOFF commands send to: Listproc @ lists.acs.ohio-state.edu Questions, problems, complaints, compliments;-) send to: galron.1 @ osu.edu Ha-Safran Archives: Current: http://www.mail-archive.com/hasafran%40lists.acs.ohio-state.edu/maillist.html History: http://www.mail-archive.com/hasafran%40lists.acs.ohio-state.edu/history.html AJL HomePage http://www.JewishLibraries.org
