Re: [haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps
Exactly. To be perfectly clear, "accidental" has multiple meanings: 1. An alteration from the current key signature (the usual meaning) 2. The notational object (sharp, flat, natural, etc.) that indicates an alteration of a pitch. This usage comes from engraving (e.g. Gardner Read), where the ambiguity and inaccuracy of "sharps and flats" would cause problems. However, as an alternative term Henning might consider "key". Strictly speaking, the numbers correspond to circle-of-fifths degrees from C Major, but I'm pretty sure I've seen this before. Whether or not I'd use it in this case depends upon the rest of the system. John Lato On Tue, Jan 17, 2012 at 5:50 AM, wrote: > In English flats, sharps, and naturals are all "accidentals" whether they are > in the key signature or in a measure. They can be doubled or quarter tone or > whatever, but they are still accidentals. > > Ian Knopke (Ph.D Music Technology) > BBC > > > Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device > > -Original Message- > From: Edward Amsden > Sender: haskell-art-boun...@lurk.org > Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 19:10:16 > To: > Reply-To: haskell-art@lurk.org > Subject: Re: [haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps > > In music theory, tonal modifications in the score don't add to the > key signature, but to the root note. Thus, to bring a note a half-step > down, you might have to annotate it with a natural, flat, or double > flat, > depending on whether the key signature makes it sharp, flat, or > natural. Similarly for raising a note a half step. Thus there's not > really a use for a term that covers sharps, flats, and naturals. > Annotations to set the key are the "key signature." Annotations > modifying the rest of a measure (for that is what the inline > annotations do) are called "accidentals." > > (I'm currently taking a music theory class, so if someone wishes to > correct my understanding, please feel free. I do hope this has > clarified the terminology.) > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Stephen Tetley > wrote: >> On 16 January 2012 18:23, Yitzchak Gale wrote: >> >>> In my experience, sharps and flats in the key signature are >>> not referred to as "accidentals". They are just called >>> "sharps and flats", or "the key signature". The term >>> "accidentals" really is reserved for inline exceptions to >>> the key signature. >> >> The Harvard Dictionary of Music calls them "sharps and flats" in the >> context of a key signature. >> >> Gardner Read's Notation book which is pretty authoritative, refers to >> them as "accidentals" making a key signature. >> >> So I guess it doesn't much matter... >> ___ >> haskell-art mailing list >> haskell-art@lurk.org >> http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art > > > > -- > Edward Amsden > Student > Computer Science > Rochester Institute of Technology > www.edwardamsden.com > ___ > haskell-art mailing list > haskell-art@lurk.org > http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art > ___ > haskell-art mailing list > haskell-art@lurk.org > http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art ___ haskell-art mailing list haskell-art@lurk.org http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art
Re: [haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps
In English flats, sharps, and naturals are all "accidentals" whether they are in the key signature or in a measure. They can be doubled or quarter tone or whatever, but they are still accidentals. Ian Knopke (Ph.D Music Technology) BBC Sent from my BlackBerry® wireless device -Original Message- From: Edward Amsden Sender: haskell-art-boun...@lurk.org Date: Mon, 16 Jan 2012 19:10:16 To: Reply-To: haskell-art@lurk.org Subject: Re: [haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps In music theory, tonal modifications in the score don't add to the key signature, but to the root note. Thus, to bring a note a half-step down, you might have to annotate it with a natural, flat, or double flat, depending on whether the key signature makes it sharp, flat, or natural. Similarly for raising a note a half step. Thus there's not really a use for a term that covers sharps, flats, and naturals. Annotations to set the key are the "key signature." Annotations modifying the rest of a measure (for that is what the inline annotations do) are called "accidentals." (I'm currently taking a music theory class, so if someone wishes to correct my understanding, please feel free. I do hope this has clarified the terminology.) On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Stephen Tetley wrote: > On 16 January 2012 18:23, Yitzchak Gale wrote: > >> In my experience, sharps and flats in the key signature are >> not referred to as "accidentals". They are just called >> "sharps and flats", or "the key signature". The term >> "accidentals" really is reserved for inline exceptions to >> the key signature. > > The Harvard Dictionary of Music calls them "sharps and flats" in the > context of a key signature. > > Gardner Read's Notation book which is pretty authoritative, refers to > them as "accidentals" making a key signature. > > So I guess it doesn't much matter... > ___ > haskell-art mailing list > haskell-art@lurk.org > http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art -- Edward Amsden Student Computer Science Rochester Institute of Technology www.edwardamsden.com ___ haskell-art mailing list haskell-art@lurk.org http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art ___ haskell-art mailing list haskell-art@lurk.org http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art
Re: [haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps
On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 7:10 PM, Edward Amsden wrote: > Thus there's not really a use for a term that covers sharps, flats, and > naturals. Oops that should have been "...that covers only sharps and flats." ___ haskell-art mailing list haskell-art@lurk.org http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art
Re: [haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps
In music theory, tonal modifications in the score don't add to the key signature, but to the root note. Thus, to bring a note a half-step down, you might have to annotate it with a natural, flat, or double flat, depending on whether the key signature makes it sharp, flat, or natural. Similarly for raising a note a half step. Thus there's not really a use for a term that covers sharps, flats, and naturals. Annotations to set the key are the "key signature." Annotations modifying the rest of a measure (for that is what the inline annotations do) are called "accidentals." (I'm currently taking a music theory class, so if someone wishes to correct my understanding, please feel free. I do hope this has clarified the terminology.) On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 1:42 PM, Stephen Tetley wrote: > On 16 January 2012 18:23, Yitzchak Gale wrote: > >> In my experience, sharps and flats in the key signature are >> not referred to as "accidentals". They are just called >> "sharps and flats", or "the key signature". The term >> "accidentals" really is reserved for inline exceptions to >> the key signature. > > The Harvard Dictionary of Music calls them "sharps and flats" in the > context of a key signature. > > Gardner Read's Notation book which is pretty authoritative, refers to > them as "accidentals" making a key signature. > > So I guess it doesn't much matter... > ___ > haskell-art mailing list > haskell-art@lurk.org > http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art -- Edward Amsden Student Computer Science Rochester Institute of Technology www.edwardamsden.com ___ haskell-art mailing list haskell-art@lurk.org http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art
Re: [haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps
On 16 January 2012 18:23, Yitzchak Gale wrote: > In my experience, sharps and flats in the key signature are > not referred to as "accidentals". They are just called > "sharps and flats", or "the key signature". The term > "accidentals" really is reserved for inline exceptions to > the key signature. The Harvard Dictionary of Music calls them "sharps and flats" in the context of a key signature. Gardner Read's Notation book which is pretty authoritative, refers to them as "accidentals" making a key signature. So I guess it doesn't much matter... ___ haskell-art mailing list haskell-art@lurk.org http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art
Re: [haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps
John Lato wrote: > "Accidental" is the generic English term for a sharp, flat, or other > pitch modification, and "accidentals" would be perfectly acceptable > for your use. I was going to disagree with Wikipedia, however I note > that the second sentence of the "Accidental" article mentions this > usage. In my experience, sharps and flats in the key signature are not referred to as "accidentals". They are just called "sharps and flats", or "the key signature". The term "accidentals" really is reserved for inline exceptions to the key signature. I don't know Henning's context. It could be that he could abuse the term "accidental" without causing too much confusion. Personally, I would just say "sharps and flats". Regards, Yitz ___ haskell-art mailing list haskell-art@lurk.org http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art
Re: [haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps
Oh, in russian it's "signs" too. Signs go after the key. 2012/1/16 John Lato > Hi Henning, > > "Accidental" is the generic English term for a sharp, flat, or other > pitch modification, and "accidentals" would be perfectly acceptable > for your use. I was going to disagree with Wikipedia, however I note > that the second sentence of the "Accidental" article mentions this > usage. > > Don't use "sign", as that term refers to something else (the > navigation marker of dal Segno (D.S.) and would just be confusing more > likely than not. > > John Lato > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Duncan Mortimer wrote: > > Hi Henning, > > > > I just learnt that my previous message was incorrect: I hadn't > > realised that an 'accidental' refers only to notes modified from the > > current tonal context. Thankyou wikipedia! > > > > Sorry about that. I'm not sure what the technically correct English > > term is for the 'number of sharps and flats in the key signature'. > > 'Signs' seems reasonable to me. > > > > best, > > Duncan > > > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Duncan Mortimer > wrote: > >> Hi Henning, > >> > >> These are commonly called "accidentals" in English. > >> > >> best, > >> Duncan > >> > >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Henning Thielemann > >> wrote: > >>> > >>> I have a question for the native English speaking musicians: What is > the > >>> umbrella term for flats and sharps? In German it is "Vorzeichen" and in > >>> Dutch it is "voortekens", which could be translated to "signs". > >>> Background: MIDI File specification allows to set a key signature and > >>> represents it by the number of flats or sharps and the mode (major or > >>> minor), where a negative number measures flats and a positive number > >>> counts sharps. Is "signs" a good term for this count or what else is > >>> reasonable? > >>> ___ > >>> haskell-art mailing list > >>> haskell-art@lurk.org > >>> http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art > > ___ > > haskell-art mailing list > > haskell-art@lurk.org > > http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art > ___ > haskell-art mailing list > haskell-art@lurk.org > http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art > ___ haskell-art mailing list haskell-art@lurk.org http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art
Re: [haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps
Hi Henning, "Accidental" is the generic English term for a sharp, flat, or other pitch modification, and "accidentals" would be perfectly acceptable for your use. I was going to disagree with Wikipedia, however I note that the second sentence of the "Accidental" article mentions this usage. Don't use "sign", as that term refers to something else (the navigation marker of dal Segno (D.S.) and would just be confusing more likely than not. John Lato On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 4:04 PM, Duncan Mortimer wrote: > Hi Henning, > > I just learnt that my previous message was incorrect: I hadn't > realised that an 'accidental' refers only to notes modified from the > current tonal context. Thankyou wikipedia! > > Sorry about that. I'm not sure what the technically correct English > term is for the 'number of sharps and flats in the key signature'. > 'Signs' seems reasonable to me. > > best, > Duncan > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Duncan Mortimer wrote: >> Hi Henning, >> >> These are commonly called "accidentals" in English. >> >> best, >> Duncan >> >> On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Henning Thielemann >> wrote: >>> >>> I have a question for the native English speaking musicians: What is the >>> umbrella term for flats and sharps? In German it is "Vorzeichen" and in >>> Dutch it is "voortekens", which could be translated to "signs". >>> Background: MIDI File specification allows to set a key signature and >>> represents it by the number of flats or sharps and the mode (major or >>> minor), where a negative number measures flats and a positive number >>> counts sharps. Is "signs" a good term for this count or what else is >>> reasonable? >>> ___ >>> haskell-art mailing list >>> haskell-art@lurk.org >>> http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art > ___ > haskell-art mailing list > haskell-art@lurk.org > http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art ___ haskell-art mailing list haskell-art@lurk.org http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art
Re: [haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps
On Mon, 16 Jan 2012, Duncan Mortimer wrote: > Hi Henning, > > I just learnt that my previous message was incorrect: I hadn't > realised that an 'accidental' refers only to notes modified from the > current tonal context. Thankyou wikipedia! This was, what I learned from Wikipedia, too. :-) > Sorry about that. I'm not sure what the technically correct English > term is for the 'number of sharps and flats in the key signature'. > 'Signs' seems reasonable to me. Ok ___ haskell-art mailing list haskell-art@lurk.org http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art
Re: [haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps
Hi Henning, I just learnt that my previous message was incorrect: I hadn't realised that an 'accidental' refers only to notes modified from the current tonal context. Thankyou wikipedia! Sorry about that. I'm not sure what the technically correct English term is for the 'number of sharps and flats in the key signature'. 'Signs' seems reasonable to me. best, Duncan On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:59 PM, Duncan Mortimer wrote: > Hi Henning, > > These are commonly called "accidentals" in English. > > best, > Duncan > > On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Henning Thielemann > wrote: >> >> I have a question for the native English speaking musicians: What is the >> umbrella term for flats and sharps? In German it is "Vorzeichen" and in >> Dutch it is "voortekens", which could be translated to "signs". >> Background: MIDI File specification allows to set a key signature and >> represents it by the number of flats or sharps and the mode (major or >> minor), where a negative number measures flats and a positive number >> counts sharps. Is "signs" a good term for this count or what else is >> reasonable? >> ___ >> haskell-art mailing list >> haskell-art@lurk.org >> http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art ___ haskell-art mailing list haskell-art@lurk.org http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art
Re: [haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps
Hi Henning, These are commonly called "accidentals" in English. best, Duncan On Mon, Jan 16, 2012 at 3:48 PM, Henning Thielemann wrote: > > I have a question for the native English speaking musicians: What is the > umbrella term for flats and sharps? In German it is "Vorzeichen" and in > Dutch it is "voortekens", which could be translated to "signs". > Background: MIDI File specification allows to set a key signature and > represents it by the number of flats or sharps and the mode (major or > minor), where a negative number measures flats and a positive number > counts sharps. Is "signs" a good term for this count or what else is > reasonable? > ___ > haskell-art mailing list > haskell-art@lurk.org > http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art ___ haskell-art mailing list haskell-art@lurk.org http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art
[haskell-art] umbrella term for flats and sharps
I have a question for the native English speaking musicians: What is the umbrella term for flats and sharps? In German it is "Vorzeichen" and in Dutch it is "voortekens", which could be translated to "signs". Background: MIDI File specification allows to set a key signature and represents it by the number of flats or sharps and the mode (major or minor), where a negative number measures flats and a positive number counts sharps. Is "signs" a good term for this count or what else is reasonable? ___ haskell-art mailing list haskell-art@lurk.org http://lists.lurk.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-art
