[Haskell-cafe] collection monads
Matthias Fischmann wrote: > > Do you expect the contained type x to change during a > > sequence of monadic actions? e.g. would you ever use (>>=) > > at the type 'Permutation Int -> (Int -> Permutation Bool) -> > > Permutation Bool'? > > no, i don't need that. but aside from > the fact that > > > data Permutation k v = > > Permutation [(k, v)] > > instance (Ix k) => > > Monad (Permutation k) > > is redundant (i think of the permutation > as a function applicable to arbitrary > lists): how would that change anything? > my definition of return still doesn't > work. or how would you redefine > 'return'? Ah. Yes, my approach falls over because it lacks two things. #1: a distinguished value of the Ix-constrained type k, to pair off with return's argument. #2: a purpose. I don't have a clear idea of what a do-block in a permutation monad ought to mean. Whoops! :-] Regards, Tom (crawling back under his rock) ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell speaking Spanish
Hello Luis, Friday, October 6, 2006, 6:52:04 AM, you wrote: > I have recently started editing a page on the Haskell.org wiki site > dedicated to our spanish-speaker community.[0] i had the same idea about Russian page although still not implemented it > I also expect we could get some of the main Haskell wiki pages translated, > at least the most popular pages.[1] great idea! -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Trying to understand HList / hSequence now (it works, but why?! :-0)
Hi, here is how you do sequencing for HList, and a question why the type signatures are valid. Here is the code: {-# OPTIONS -fglasgow-exts #-} {-# OPTIONS -fallow-undecidable-instances #-} module Foo where import Char import HListPrelude class (Monad m, HList l) => HSequence m l l' | l -> m l' where hSequence :: l -> m l' instance (Monad m, HSequence m HNil HNil) => HSequence m HNil HNil where hSequence _ = return HNil instance (Monad m, HSequence m l l') => HSequence m (HCons (m a) l) (HCons a l') where hSequence (HCons ma ml) = do a <- ma l <- hSequence ml return (HCons a l) hlist = HCons (Just 1) (HCons (Just 'c') HNil) testHSequence = hSequence hlist *Foo> testHSequence Just (HCons 1 (HCons 'c' HNil)) :: Maybe (HCons Integer (HCons Char HNil)) what staggers me is the instance declaration of "HSequence m HNil HNil": how can i use the goal of the declaration as one of the conditions without causing some sort of black hole in the type inference algorithm? also i wanted to show off with the code :-). should i submit it somewhere? cheers, matthias signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] collection monads
On Sun, Oct 08, 2006 at 10:57:46PM +1300, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > To: haskell-cafe@haskell.org > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Date: Sun, 08 Oct 2006 22:57:46 +1300 > Subject: [Haskell-cafe] collection monads > > Matthias Fischmann wrote: > > > Do you expect the contained type x to change during a > > > sequence of monadic actions? e.g. would you ever use > (>>=) > > > at the type 'Permutation Int -> (Int -> Permutation > Bool) -> > > > Permutation Bool'? > > > > no, i don't need that. but aside from > > the fact that > > > > > data Permutation k v = > > > Permutation [(k, v)] > > > instance (Ix k) => > > > Monad (Permutation k) > > > > is redundant (i think of the permutation > > as a function applicable to arbitrary > > lists): how would that change anything? > > my definition of return still doesn't > > work. or how would you redefine > > 'return'? > > Ah. Yes, my approach falls over because it lacks two > things. #1: a distinguished value of the Ix-constrained > type k, to pair off with return's argument. #2: a purpose. > I don't have a clear idea of what a do-block in a > permutation monad ought to mean. Whoops! color=red>:-] yes, me neither. i thought of something like sequencial execution of permutations, and was hoping it was similar enough to strings and concat / join. but it seems it's something else... ok, permutations are not that monadic, really. i'll try to live with it. (-: matthias signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Haskell performance (again)!
This email actually turned out much longer than I expected, but I hope it sparks interesting (and hopefully, thorough!) discussion on points that weren't touched on by previous threads on this topic. What follows describes my journey thus far exploring what I see (as a newcomer to Haskell) as a major problem with Haskell - the ease with which users can write inefficient code, and have no idea that they did. Some of this has to do with laziness, some of it with the functional programming in general. My goal is to achieve (as a link further down says) *good* performance, not blazing performance. I.e., I want to avoid what should really be no-brainers such as little-omega(1) space utilization for simple folds. The first version of a simple program I wrote was reasonably "clean." (Throughout this email, "clean" is supposed to mean some combination of: clear, compact, modular, elegant, etc.) It's a polynomial adder, which takes in lists of (coefficient, degree) tuples, combining terms of the same degree and maintaining a sorted order of least-to-greatest degree: type Poly = [(Int,Int)] addPoly1 :: Poly -> Poly -> Poly addPoly1 p1@(p1h@(p1c,p1d):p1t) p2@(p2h@(p2c,p2d):p2t) | p1d == p2d = (p1c + p2c, p1d) : addPoly1 p1t p2t | p1d < p2d = p1h : addPoly1 p1t p2 | p1d > p2d = p2h : addPoly1 p1 p2t addPoly1 p1 [] = p1 addPoly1 [] p2 = p2 addPoly1 [] [] = [] But this doesn't use tail recursion/accumulation (which seems to me like a complete hack that is a mandatory price to pay for using FP), so I rewrote it: addPoly :: Poly -> Poly -> Poly addPoly p1 p2 = let addPoly' p1@(p1h@(p1c,p1d):p1t) p2@(p2h@(p2c,p2d):p2t) result | p1d == p2d = addPoly' p1t p2t ((p1c + p2c, p1d):result) | p1d > p2d = addPoly' p1 p2t (p2h:result) | p1d < p2d = addPoly' p1t p2 (p1h:result) addPoly' (p1:p1s) [] result = addPoly' p1s [] (p1:result) addPoly' [] (p2:p2s) result = addPoly' [] p2s (p2:result) addPoly' [] [] result = reverse result in addPoly' p1 p2 [] But laziness will cause this to occupy Theta(n)-space of cons-ing thunks. (See appendix for a simpler example.) My third iteration will become even uglier because I will have to incorporate strictness and things like $! or seq. And there's probably a whole host of other issues that I haven't even thought of or don't know about (boxing, space leaks, etc.). From #haskell, I got a general piece of advice: Oct 07 22:37:20 Actually, a lot of the time, code gets messy when people optimise because they take the wrong road to optimisation Oct 07 22:37:31 There are two ways to optimise a piece of Haskell code Oct 07 22:37:43 You can make it stricter, forcing evaluation to occur sooner Oct 07 22:38:01 Or you can make it lazier, ensuring that things are not demanded until actually needed Oct 07 22:38:09@wiki performance Oct 07 22:38:09http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/performance Oct 07 22:38:13 the latter route actually tends to result in cleaner code Of course, to want to learn route 2 was a no-brainer. I read through that wiki page on laziness and various other resources, but was disappointed in what I found: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Performance/Laziness only discusses the aspect of laziness where you only evaluate what you need, which by now has been repeatedly beaten into my head and sounds obvious. Aren't there other advantages to laziness? Or at least, am I not fully appreciating the "obvious" work-avoiding part of laziness? For instance, the example seems to allude to sharing (between the even and odd functions), which I think ties in strongly with laziness. I was hoping for more in-depth insights on how to take advantage of laziness to write cleaner AND more efficient code. (A loose analogy exists in computer architecture - the smaller the chip, the less power it can consume/the faster it can clock.) http://en.wikibooks.org/wiki/Haskell/Laziness_revisited does slightly better but still just scratches the surface - it gives an example of a clean (compact and modular) yet efficient piece of code (isSubstringOf), then completely neglects explaining it (e.g., exactly why/how does it run more efficiently?). http://users.aber.ac.uk/afc/stricthaskell.html seems to suggest that strictness is the way to go. Please say it ain't so! http://www.algorithm.com.au/mt/haskell/haskells_performance.html says that between code optimized for performance in Haskell and in another language (like O'Caml), "which is more declarative, high-level, and most importantly, which one doesn't require an expert in the language to write" is an unfortunate (for Haskell fans) no-brainer: "The problem then is you have to know why something is slow, and there's where Haskell can get complex. Is there a space leak? (Do you even know what a space leak is?) Is your array strict instead of lazy? If it's strict, is it boxed instead of unboxed? (Do you even know what unboxing is?) Can you use unsafeRe
[Haskell-cafe] Trying to serialize HList
... and here is the code I am giving up on for today: Serialization of HLists. Questions below. {-# OPTIONS -fglasgow-exts #-} {-# OPTIONS -fallow-undecidable-instances #-} {-# OPTIONS -fallow-overlapping-instances #-} module Foo where import Char import List import Monad import Permutation import HListPrelude -- [1] http://web.engr.oregonstate.edu/~erwig/pfp/ -- Serializable is like Show, but -- (a) it carries explicit type information, and -- (b) it allows for serializing IORefs etc. class Serializable s where serialize :: s -> IO String deSerialize :: String -> IO s instance Serializable Int where serialize = return . ("Int::" ++) . show deSerialize s | isPrefixOf "Int::" s = return . (read :: String -> Int) . drop 5 $ s instance Serializable Char where serialize = return . ("Char::" ++) . show deSerialize s | isPrefixOf "Char::" s = return . (read :: String -> Char) . drop 6 $ s -- SList is a list of heterogenous serializable elements... class HList l => SList l instance SList HNil instance (Serializable s, SList ss) => SList (HCons s ss) -- ... so it should be possible to write instantiate Serializable, right?: instance (SList s, HMapOut Serialize s (IO String)) => Serializable s where serialize = liftM show . (sequence :: [IO String] -> IO [String]) . hMapOut Serialize deSerialize = error "Not yet. (I am not even done with serialize yet.)" -- Seems we need the trick from the paper that oleg pointed out to me earlier in this thread: data Serialize = Serialize instance (Serializable s) => Apply Serialize s (IO String) where apply _ = serialize -- Example: slist = HCons (1 :: Int) (HCons ('c' :: Char) HNil) test1 = serialize slist -- (This is where -fallow-overlapping-instances helps. There is a -- section in [1] on how to get rid of it, which I haven't read yet.) test2 :: IO (HCons Int (HCons Char HNil)) test2 = test1 >>= deSerialize Two questions: (1) Do you see any reasons why it should be impossible in principle to write deSerialize for the SList instance of Serializable? (I think the answer is "it's possible to write it, but you need to add quite some type information by hand".) (2) The problem with test2 is that I need to know its precise object-level type, ie which types occur at which positions in the SList. I am pretty sure this is a restriction I have to live with. Please tell me I am wrong. (-: (I think my application will make it possible for ghc to infer the type, which is fixed at compile time anyways, so it's not a severe restriction.) (3) (bonus question :) Who wants to write deSerialize for SLists for me? And another one: Why do I need to list the HMapOut instance in the context of the instance declaration of Serializable for SLists? (It's not a big deal, but I can't see why it can't be inferred automatically from the rest of the code.) Possibly back with another issue of my HList diary tomorrow. (Please tell me if you find this interesting or if you would like me to stop being so verbose.) cheers, Matthias signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Re: Haskell performance (again)!
Hello, admittedly, there is a lack of material on lazy evaluation and performance. IMHO, the current wiki(book) and other articles are somewhat inadequate which stems from the fact that current rumor is "strictness is fast" and "arrays must be unboxed" or so. I don't agree with this, so I post some remarks about performance in general and with laziness in particular. My first remark about performance is unfair and amounts to discuss the issue away: * The programmers viewpoint about performance in Haskell should be a lazy one, i.e. you think about the performance of your code only when its forced by someone else. If no one complains, do not even waste a second thinking about it. So > type Poly = [(Int,Int)] > > addPoly1 :: Poly -> Poly -> Poly > addPoly1 p1@(p1h@(p1c,p1d):p1t) p2@(p2h@(p2c,p2d):p2t) >| p1d == p2d = (p1c + p2c, p1d) : addPoly1 p1t p2t >| p1d < p2d = p1h : addPoly1 p1t p2 >| p1d > p2d = p2h : addPoly1 p1 p2t > addPoly1 p1 [] = p1 > addPoly1 [] p2 = p2 > addPoly1 [] [] = [] is the right thing to do. Point. With that viewpoint, your sorrows will fade away :) Mine do. In my experience, clean code by far outweighs any performance issues as it allows one to reduce the complexity of the programming task until it actually becomes tractable. As example, Darcs' patch mechanism is almost impossible to code in a non-functional language. And what about those open source / freeware game web sites where one reads "at some point my code base became absolutely unmaintainable and I had to abandon this project" ? Linked to that is the advent of scripting languages like perl, python, tcl. Why do people use these interpreted languages as there are the coffins of performance? IMHO, there also already is the trend to buy medium abstraction (Java, Objective-C) by deliberately selling away performance (Java programs are so lame, Objective-C can be speed up 10% by optimizing the msg_send() assembly) and i think: Haskell has a much better benefit-to-cost ratio then the others. The second remark is: * On machine level, Laziness is an overhead, but it's only a constant factor. *Constant factor*! There is a story about this in S. Skiena's "The Algorithm Design Manual" where some guy eats all the CPU of a supercomputer for a stupid task which he programmed using an asymptotically mediocre algorithm. Ouch. This already applies to your polynomials: are you sure [(Int,Int)] is the right data structure to fulfill your performance requirements on the asymptotic running time of your intended operation? Or should you use Data.Map Int Int which grants O(log n) random access (by index i) to every coefficient a_i as opposed to the list case where you can only fetch a_i in O(n) time? The answer is that your original representation is quite suitable as the common operations +,*,diff,evaluation etc. for polynomials have no "a priori" knowledge about which coefficients are 0 and which are not, they have to discover it anyway. Only internally * needs a finite map to collect common degrees. You can even write a function sum :: [Polynomial] -> Polynomial which uses a finite map to collect degrees and define + and * in terms of it. By the way, I don't know any imperative hobby programmer for which mutable arrays are not the one and for all collection data structure. Haskell offers a much easier access to data structures like binary search trees with appropriate polymorphism. IMHO, Haskell is even the first language to have a binary search tree library which offers satisfying generality and ease of use. This makes your program faster! Only the third remark starts to be about performance in Haskell itself: * Haskell is a lazy language. Why to make this your enemy, why to swim against the currents by making your programs more strict? As I remember, Cale once said on IRC how the relative strength of strictness / laziness applies on functions which operate on the different data sizes: small -> smalldoesn't really matter (minor lazy overhead but we have strictness analysis) large -> small every part of the large thing is needed in calculation strictness wins large -> small only parts are needed lazyness wins large -> largedepends on large input like above but roughly same otherwise small -> largeroughly same Only in the case where strictness wins, you have to insert a seq or two. As a rule of thumb, all recursive data structures like lists and trees are large. Int's are small. The point is that when you are given an Int, the first look at it will reveal all information about it. In case of a list, a first look only reveals the first element. What was the primary reason for laziness, anyway? The famous paper "Why functional programming matters" by John Hughes gives the answer: you can code programs in a more modular way (and this without biting performance penalties). Laziness is what makes compositions like
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell performance (again)!
On 10/8/06, Yang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: And do most (experienced) Haskell users sacrifice cleanliness for speed, or speed for cleanliness? Keep the internals of your code--that which will be looked at a lot--fast and ugly, while the rest can be clean. If you have a function that does something very simple, but the "pretty" way to do it takes a second to run while the ugly way is much, much faster, use the pretty one if it's only going to be needed once or twice. It's certainly not the kind of thing you want to fold your lists with: use the ugly version for that. Also, if you want, you can write both a pretty version and an ugly version, and put the pretty version in comments while the ugly version does all the real work. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell performance (again)!
On 10/8/06, ihope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Keep the internals of your code--that which will be looked at a lot--fast and ugly, while the rest can be clean. Sorry. Meant "that which will be used a lot". ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell performance (again)!
On 10/8/06, ihope <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: On 10/8/06, Yang <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > And do most (experienced) Haskell > users sacrifice cleanliness for speed, or speed for cleanliness? Keep the internals of your code--that which will be looked at a lot--fast and ugly, while the rest can be clean. If you have a function that does something very simple, but the "pretty" way to do it takes a second to run while the ugly way is much, much faster, use the pretty one if it's only going to be needed once or twice. It's certainly not the kind of thing you want to fold your lists with: use the ugly version for that. Also, if you want, you can write both a pretty version and an ugly version, and put the pretty version in comments while the ugly version does all the real work. Another good idea when you have a pretty version which is easy to verify for correctness and an ugly version that is harder to verify is to use QuickCheck or SmallCheck and define a property that says both versions are equal for all inputs. Ugly code is notorious for holding bugs, but doing this would help test the ugly code. Jason ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell performance (again)!
On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 15:25 -0700, Jason Dagit wrote: > Another good idea when you have a pretty version which is easy to > verify for correctness and an ugly version that is harder to verify is > to use QuickCheck or SmallCheck and define a property that says both > versions are equal for all inputs. Ugly code is notorious for holding > bugs, but doing this would help test the ugly code. This is exactly how we tested Data.ByteString and to great effect I think. We uncovered loads of bugs during testing. The few bugs uncovered by our users since it has been released have invariably been in things we didn't have QC properties for. Duncan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell performance (again)!
duncan.coutts: > On Sun, 2006-10-08 at 15:25 -0700, Jason Dagit wrote: > > > Another good idea when you have a pretty version which is easy to > > verify for correctness and an ugly version that is harder to verify is > > to use QuickCheck or SmallCheck and define a property that says both > > versions are equal for all inputs. Ugly code is notorious for holding > > bugs, but doing this would help test the ugly code. > > This is exactly how we tested Data.ByteString and to great effect I > think. We uncovered loads of bugs during testing. The few bugs uncovered > by our users since it has been released have invariably been in things > we didn't have QC properties for. Yes, I agree with this. By checking fast-bug-ugly code against slow-but-obvious code, we were able to catch bugs before Data.ByteString was deployed in the outside world, and before the bugs could hurt anyone. These days, Data.ByteString has some 2000 lines of QC properties, which are run on ever darcs commit. -- Don ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell performance (again)!
Yang wrote: > type Poly = [(Int,Int)] > > addPoly1 :: Poly -> Poly -> Poly > addPoly1 p1@(p1h@(p1c,p1d):p1t) p2@(p2h@(p2c,p2d):p2t) >| p1d == p2d = (p1c + p2c, p1d) : addPoly1 p1t p2t >| p1d < p2d = p1h : addPoly1 p1t p2 >| p1d > p2d = p2h : addPoly1 p1 p2t > addPoly1 p1 [] = p1 > addPoly1 [] p2 = p2 > addPoly1 [] [] = [] > > But this doesn't use tail recursion/accumulation Indeed it doesn't. Now remind me, why is that supposed to be a Bad Thing? The above code exhibits a maximum of lazyness and runs with no useless space overhead. Apart from the expression (p1c + p2c), which you probably want to evaluate eagerly, it is close to perfect. > so I rewrote it: [...] > > But laziness will cause this to occupy Theta(n)-space of cons-ing > thunks. No, it doesn't. Insisting on accumulator recursion does. Actually, using reverse does. Think about it, a strict reverse cannot use less than O(n) space, either. > I was > hoping for more in-depth insights on how to take advantage of laziness > to write cleaner AND more efficient code. Try to explain why your first iteration was bad. You'll achieve enlightenment at the point where your explanation fails. Udo. -- Hast du zum Leben kein Motiv -- steig mal vor, vielleicht geht's schief. -- aus einem Gipfelbuch signature.asc Description: Digital signature ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Bizarre garbage collection behaviour
I'm using Hugs98 for .NET and I'm running into some bizarre garbage collection issues. I hope I'm posting at the right spot. I didn't want to post this in Hugs bugs since I'm pretty new to Haskell and it's entirely possible I'm doing something a way I shouldn't. Back to the problem at hand. My script (link available at the bottom of this email) fetches a webpage through the .NET Net library and processes it. If I output the result of this processing (a list with the player's name, goals, assists and points) to the screen with putStrLn I can process about two dozen before I hit a .NET runtime exception (which is a different issue entirely). If I don't ouput the result to the screen (I delete 2 lines that only do putStrLn, Ln 148 & Ln 161) I get "ERROR - Garbage collection fails to reclaim sufficient space" after 2 players processed which seems completely counter-intuitive to me. Does someone have an idea as to what's going on here? The script (and its dependencies) are available here: http://smokinn.tengun.net/comp348/week6/ Thanks, Guillaume Theoret ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell performance (again)!
On 10/8/06, Udo Stenzel u.stenzel-at-web.de |haskell-cafe| <...> wrote: Yang wrote: > type Poly = [(Int,Int)] > > addPoly1 :: Poly -> Poly -> Poly > addPoly1 p1@(p1h@(p1c,p1d):p1t) p2@(p2h@(p2c,p2d):p2t) >| p1d == p2d = (p1c + p2c, p1d) : addPoly1 p1t p2t >| p1d < p2d = p1h : addPoly1 p1t p2 >| p1d > p2d = p2h : addPoly1 p1 p2t > addPoly1 p1 [] = p1 > addPoly1 [] p2 = p2 > addPoly1 [] [] = [] > > But this doesn't use tail recursion/accumulation Indeed it doesn't. Now remind me, why is that supposed to be a Bad Thing? The above code exhibits a maximum of lazyness and runs with no useless space overhead. Apart from the expression (p1c + p2c), which you probably want to evaluate eagerly, it is close to perfect. > so I rewrote it: [...] > > But laziness will cause this to occupy Theta(n)-space of cons-ing > thunks. No, it doesn't. Insisting on accumulator recursion does. Actually, using reverse does. Think about it, a strict reverse cannot use less than O(n) space, either. Well, in general, the problem you run into is this, where we use linear space for the thunks: foldl (+) 0 [1,2,3] = foldl (+) (0 + 1) [2,3] = foldl (+) ((0 + 1) + 2) [3] = foldl (+) (((0 + 1) + 2) + 3) [] = ((0 + 1) + 2) + 3 = (1 + 2) + 3 = 3 + 3 = 6 whereas with strictness, you use constant space: foldl' f z [] = z foldl' f z (x:xs) = let u = f z x in u `seq` foldl' f u xs foldl' (+) 0 [1,2,3] = let u = 0 + 1 in u `seq` foldl' (+) u [2,3] = foldl' (+) 1 [2,3] = let u = 1 + 2 in u `seq` foldl' (+) u [3] = foldl' (+) 3 [3] = let u = 3 + 3 in u `seq` foldl' (+) u [] = foldl' (+) 6 [] = 6 > I was > hoping for more in-depth insights on how to take advantage of laziness > to write cleaner AND more efficient code. Try to explain why your first iteration was bad. You'll achieve enlightenment at the point where your explanation fails. Udo. -- Hast du zum Leben kein Motiv -- steig mal vor, vielleicht geht's schief. -- aus einem Gipfelbuch -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.1 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQFFKYwQc1ZCC9bsOpURAs4KAKCymnLiE5LfkCa01H0AJ2FddwJ6oQCfY6DY sYRPT1fGr0mUozUcs+qGC8s= =BRLQ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe