Re: [Haskell-cafe] Ticking time bomb
On Thu, Jan 31, 2013 at 8:16 AM, Ketil Malde ke...@malde.org wrote: Ertugrul Söylemez e...@ertes.de writes: People are using Hackage! +1. And I keep telling people to use it. Sure, it'd be better if they used .debs, .rpms, or whatever goes on Mac and Windows. But that would mean I would need to build those packages, including maintaining systems with the respective OSes. I haven't even managed to do it for the systems I do use. Some people seem to have been confused that by suggesting that cabal is not a package manager, I was suggesting not to use Hackage or cabal at all, or not to bother signing packages. To be clear, I am for the following: - Using Hackage (for storing packages, searching online, downloading to create OS packages) - Using cabal (as a package developer, for testing/creating/uploading packages) - Signing packages on Hackage - this is important for security, and I don't want to detract further from the discussion about how to do it. What I am against is: - Using cabal to install packages and generally as a package manager (e.g. try to use it to delete or upgrade packages). This often ends in tears, because that is not cabal's job and it doesn't do it well! Rather, you should help whoever is making packages for your OS (or start doing this) by packaging the existing cabal packages on Hackage as proper OS packages suitable for install/upgrade/remove etc. This can be largely automated, and the main headaches come from dependency issues, which are a separate problem on Hackage (and which Stackage is aiming to alleviate). ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Ticking time bomb
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:43 PM, Edward Z. Yang ezy...@mit.edu wrote: This argument seems specious. Whether or not cabal-install is or not intended to be a package manager, users expect it to act like one (as users expect rubygems to be a package manager), and, at the end of the day, that is what matters. But playing along with their delusion might make it harder to change their minds. Edward ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Ticking time bomb
On Wed, Jan 30, 2013 at 10:48 PM, Edward Z. Yang ezy...@mit.edu wrote: Excerpts from Ramana Kumar's message of Wed Jan 30 14:46:26 -0800 2013: This argument seems specious. Whether or not cabal-install is or not intended to be a package manager, users expect it to act like one (as users expect rubygems to be a package manager), and, at the end of the day, that is what matters. But playing along with their delusion might make it harder to change their minds. Looking at the library ecosystems of the most popular programming languages, I think this ship has already sailed. I was talking only about Haskell and cabal. There is a viable alternative to using cabal as a package manager on Arch Linux (the Arch-Haskell package repositories). There is also the Stackage project that might make this possible on more distributions with real package managers. But if you keep calling cabal a package manager, eventually you'll have to write the patches to make it one. Edward ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Inferring rewrite rules for higher order functions
Work on deforestation might also be relevant. On Sun, Jan 20, 2013 at 9:57 AM, Joachim Breitner m...@joachim-breitner.dewrote: Dear list, with rewrite rules I can tell the compiler to replace map id by id, but I still have to write that rule by hand. Does anyone of you know about research into inferring such a rewrite rule automatically? I could imagine that for a function of type f :: some - args - T a - T b and not-too-bad type constructors T it might be possible under what conditions on some and args infer when f arg1 arg2 = id holds, and if the conditions are fulfilled by functions like id, generate a rewrite rule f id id = id automatically. Thanks, Joachim -- Joachim nomeata Breitner m...@joachim-breitner.de | nome...@debian.org | GPG: 0x4743206C xmpp: nome...@joachim-breitner.de | http://www.joachim-breitner.de/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] LGPL and Haskell (Was: Re: ANNOUNCE: tie-knot library)
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 8:09 PM, Michael Snoyman mich...@snoyman.comwrote: I also don't think that distributing programs is as small a market as you think, and should also be something we support for commercial users of Haskell. Distributing programs commercially is compatible with distributing them as free software. I think it would be helpful not to use commercial users to refer to both those with policies against copyleft licenses and those who make money distributing software. Those groups are not even extensionally equal, and separating them further (by having companies reconsider such policies) is, I would think, an instrumental goal of the free software movement, which is one reason why these tensions arise. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] LGPL and Haskell (Was: Re: ANNOUNCE: tie-knot library)
On Thu, Dec 13, 2012 at 5:36 AM, Felipe Almeida Lessa felipe.le...@gmail.com wrote: A GPLed containers forces the library user to somehow get a way of complying to the license. The language here needs some clarification: the GPL (or other free copyleft license) only forces someone to do something under very particular circumstances, which could be characterised as: 1. They are planning on distributing non-free software, and, 2. They haven't made a special agreement with the copyright holder. I would hope that condition 1 does not hold for a large proportion of library users. Those users should not be scared away from copyleft. Using it has the advantage of offering a reason to push those on the fence about whether to make their software free. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANNOUNCE: tie-knot library
Using the GPL (or a strong copyleft free license) strengthens the free software community of which I thought the Haskell community is a part (or at least intersects substantially). I'm not sure why people are recommending not to use it. Let me counter with my recommendation against switching to the weaker BSD license, so readers don't get the impression that we all agree on this issue. On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 11:38 PM, Felipe Almeida Lessa felipe.le...@gmail.com wrote: Hey, Petr! Have you considered licensing your library as BSD? Given the current way that Haskell programs are compiled, your library is effectively licensed as GPL and that will scare away many people from using it. Cheers, =) On Mon, Dec 10, 2012 at 6:58 PM, Petr P petr@gmail.com wrote: Dear Haskellers, I'd like to announce a small library tie-knot: Ties the knot on a given set of structures that reference each other by keys - replaces the keys with their respective values. Takes Map k (v k) and converts into Map k v' where v' is the fixed point of v. Motivation: I needed to assemble a finite-state machine from an external description where each node was described by some identifier. I needed a simple library that would replace all key referencess with the actual values. See https://github.com/ppetr/tie-knot for examples. Hackage: http://hackage.haskell.org/package/tie-knot - Petr Pudlak ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Felipe. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] ANNOUNCE: tie-knot library
I wonder if this discussion has been had before in the Haskell community. If so, pointers to archives could be of interest. I'm glad to see that there are others who apparently share my concern about the fact that people are actively recommending that new libraries be licensed without copyleft. The debate between strong and weak (or no) copyleft goes on in many quarters. I know which side seems right and which I would argue for, and I think it's a debate worth having, but perhaps in a new thread. At least for new libraries like Petr's, as Alexander said, the author can license however he wants. I hope others won't be so quick to encourage authors to make different choices without first resolving this debate or pointing to specific harms/benefits for the library in question. On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 1:13 PM, David Thomas davidleotho...@gmail.comwrote: ... and OS X and iOS are clearly a win for the FLOSS community? On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 6:07 PM, Alexander Solla alex.so...@gmail.comwrote: As a matter of fact, BSD is far more popular on the desktop than GPL. And has a huge share of the mobile market. Witness: OS X, iOS. And none of this has anything to do with Haskell. Petr can release *his* code with any license he wants. Some licenses fit into *this* ecosystem better than others. Suggestions have been made and we can all move on. On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 6:03 PM, David Thomas davidleotho...@gmail.comwrote: Right. Like, if Linus hadn't bogged down the Linux kernel with the GPL license, it might have wound up as popular as BSD! Both dynamics go on, and the question is which is more likely to dominate in a given case (and cumulatively). On Tue, Dec 11, 2012 at 5:50 PM, Jonathan Fischer Friberg odysso...@gmail.com wrote: On Wed, Dec 12, 2012 at 2:26 AM, Ramana Kumar ramana.ku...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: Using the GPL (or a strong copyleft free license) strengthens the free software community of which I thought the Haskell community is a part (or at least intersects substantially). I don't think it strengthens the community. If someone wants to make a change a library, but not release the source, they cannot do that with GPL. The idea behind GPL is that then, the change is forced to be released - which would, as you say, strengthen the community. However, I think what would happen instead is that the person would simply not use the library in the first place. So in short: GPL does not make people become a part of the community - it pushes them away. Jonathan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] need help with understanding expression
On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 8:00 AM, Daryoush Mehrtash dmehrt...@gmail.comwrote: Sorry wrong paste Prelude :t 3 2 3 2 :: (Num a, Num (a - t)) = t It means that 2 has type a (which must be in the Num class), 3 has type (a - t) (which also must be in the Num class), and the type of (3 2) is therefore t. When you apply one expression to another, the first must have function type, and the second must have the type of the domain of the function, hence the a - t and a. Furthermore, the numeric literals are always interpreted as being in the Num class. I haven't been able to find any good introduction to numeric literals and the Num class with quick search, so if anyone else on list can point us to one (if it exists) that would be great. What does the type mean in plain english? Daryoush On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 12:00 AM, Daryoush Mehrtash dmehrt...@gmail.comwrote: Yes, same problem, and again I have no idea how to read the type Prelude :t max. 3 2 max. 3 2 :: (Ord b, Num a1, Num (a1 - a - b)) = a - b - b What does the type mean in plain english? Daryoush On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:56 PM, Ramana Kumar ramana.ku...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: Another experiment may be revealing: :t 3 2 On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 7:46 AM, Daryoush Mehrtash dmehrt...@gmail.comwrote: I see the point with :t (.) that max.(+1) 2 2 is the same as max. 3 2 Which is not what I want. But I have no idea what the type signature of this expression mean now Prelude :t max. 3 2 max. 3 2 :: (Ord b, Num a1, Num (a1 - a - b)) = a - b - b Any idea? Daryoush On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:19 PM, Ramana Kumar ramana.ku...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: Hi Daryoush, I recommend you try these experiments first, and then reply back if you're still confused. :t max :t (+1) :t max . (+1) :t (+1) 2 :t (.) On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 7:10 AM, Daryoush Mehrtash dmehrt...@gmail.com wrote: I am having hard time understanding how removing the outer parenthesis in (max.(+1)) 2 2 to max.(+1) 2 2 changes the meaning of expression. My expectation was that max.(+1) takes two numbers and returns the max as defined in the type: :t max.(+1) max.(+1) :: (Ord b, Num b) = b - b - b With parenthesis it does what I expect it to: Prelude :t (max.(+1)) 2 2 (max.(+1)) 2 2 :: (Ord b, Num b) = b Prelude (max.(+1)) 2 2 3 But if I remove the parenthesis I get a beast that I have no idea what its type signature mean any more Prelude :t (max.(+1)) 2 2 (max.(+1)) 2 2 :: (Ord b, Num b) = b Prelude :t max.(+1) 2 2 max.(+1) 2 2 :: (Ord b, Num a1, Num (a1 - a - b)) = a - b - b How did removal of parenthesis changed the meaning? How do you interpret the type: (Ord b, Num a1, Num (a1 - a - b)) = a - b - b? Thanks -- Daryoush Weblog: http://onfp.blogspot.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Daryoush Weblog: http://onfp.blogspot.com/ -- Daryoush Weblog: http://onfp.blogspot.com/ -- Daryoush Weblog: http://onfp.blogspot.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] need help with understanding expression
Hi Daryoush, I recommend you try these experiments first, and then reply back if you're still confused. :t max :t (+1) :t max . (+1) :t (+1) 2 :t (.) On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 7:10 AM, Daryoush Mehrtash dmehrt...@gmail.comwrote: I am having hard time understanding how removing the outer parenthesis in (max.(+1)) 2 2 to max.(+1) 2 2 changes the meaning of expression. My expectation was that max.(+1) takes two numbers and returns the max as defined in the type: :t max.(+1) max.(+1) :: (Ord b, Num b) = b - b - b With parenthesis it does what I expect it to: Prelude :t (max.(+1)) 2 2 (max.(+1)) 2 2 :: (Ord b, Num b) = b Prelude (max.(+1)) 2 2 3 But if I remove the parenthesis I get a beast that I have no idea what its type signature mean any more Prelude :t (max.(+1)) 2 2 (max.(+1)) 2 2 :: (Ord b, Num b) = b Prelude :t max.(+1) 2 2 max.(+1) 2 2 :: (Ord b, Num a1, Num (a1 - a - b)) = a - b - b How did removal of parenthesis changed the meaning? How do you interpret the type: (Ord b, Num a1, Num (a1 - a - b)) = a - b - b? Thanks -- Daryoush Weblog: http://onfp.blogspot.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] need help with understanding expression
Another experiment may be revealing: :t 3 2 On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 7:46 AM, Daryoush Mehrtash dmehrt...@gmail.comwrote: I see the point with :t (.) that max.(+1) 2 2 is the same as max. 3 2 Which is not what I want. But I have no idea what the type signature of this expression mean now Prelude :t max. 3 2 max. 3 2 :: (Ord b, Num a1, Num (a1 - a - b)) = a - b - b Any idea? Daryoush On Thu, Nov 15, 2012 at 11:19 PM, Ramana Kumar ramana.ku...@cl.cam.ac.ukwrote: Hi Daryoush, I recommend you try these experiments first, and then reply back if you're still confused. :t max :t (+1) :t max . (+1) :t (+1) 2 :t (.) On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 7:10 AM, Daryoush Mehrtash dmehrt...@gmail.comwrote: I am having hard time understanding how removing the outer parenthesis in (max.(+1)) 2 2 to max.(+1) 2 2 changes the meaning of expression. My expectation was that max.(+1) takes two numbers and returns the max as defined in the type: :t max.(+1) max.(+1) :: (Ord b, Num b) = b - b - b With parenthesis it does what I expect it to: Prelude :t (max.(+1)) 2 2 (max.(+1)) 2 2 :: (Ord b, Num b) = b Prelude (max.(+1)) 2 2 3 But if I remove the parenthesis I get a beast that I have no idea what its type signature mean any more Prelude :t (max.(+1)) 2 2 (max.(+1)) 2 2 :: (Ord b, Num b) = b Prelude :t max.(+1) 2 2 max.(+1) 2 2 :: (Ord b, Num a1, Num (a1 - a - b)) = a - b - b How did removal of parenthesis changed the meaning? How do you interpret the type: (Ord b, Num a1, Num (a1 - a - b)) = a - b - b? Thanks -- Daryoush Weblog: http://onfp.blogspot.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Daryoush Weblog: http://onfp.blogspot.com/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] [Security] Put haskell.org on https
Who is the webmaster for haskell.org? Presumably they will be required in the process of installing the certificate. As far as obtaining goes, one can obtain a free certificate from StartSSL - see https://www.startssl.com There are other CAs, but if nobody has any strong preferences, I recommend going with them. On Tue, Oct 30, 2012 at 8:52 PM, Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me wrote: So how do we go forward about getting the SSL certificate and installing it? On 29/10/12 01:06, Patrick Mylund Nielsen wrote: Sure. No matter what's done in Cabal, the clients for everything else will still be mainly browsers. On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:59 AM, Niklas Hambüchen m...@nh2.me mailto:m...@nh2.me wrote: No matter what we do with cabal, it would be great if I could soon point my browser at https://haskell.org *anyway*. On 28/10/12 23:55, Patrick Mylund Nielsen wrote: Of course, as long as Cabal itself is distributed through this same https-enabled site, you have the same PKI-backed security as just about any major website. This model has problems, yes, but it's good enough, and it's easy to use. If you really want to improve it (without impacting usability), have Google/the browser vendors pin the public cert for haskell.org http://haskell.org http://haskell.org. On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:45 AM, Patrick Mylund Nielsen hask...@patrickmylund.com mailto:hask...@patrickmylund.com mailto:hask...@patrickmylund.com mailto:hask...@patrickmylund.com wrote: PGP tends to present many usability issues, and in this case it would make more sense/provide a clearer win if there were many different, semi-untrusted hackage mirrors. Just enable HTTPS and have Cabal validate the server certificate against a CA pool of one. PKI/trusting obscure certificate authorities in Egypt and Syria is the biggest concern here, not somebody MITMing your initial Cabal installation (which in a lot of cases happens through apt-get or yum, anyway.) On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 12:34 AM, Changaco chang...@changaco.net mailto:chang...@changaco.net mailto:chang...@changaco.net mailto:chang...@changaco.net wrote: On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:07:24 -0400 Patrick Hurst wrote: How do you get a copy of cabal while making sure that somebody hasn't MITMed you and replaced the PGP key? Ultimately it is a DNS problem. To establish a secure connection with haskell.org http://haskell.org http://haskell.org you'd have to get the certificate from the DNS, but that technology is not ready yet, so all you can do is check the key against as many sources as possible like Michael Walker said. On Sun, 28 Oct 2012 17:46:06 -0400 Patrick Hurst wrote: So why not use HTTPS? Because it doesn't solve the problem. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org mailto:Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org mailto:Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org mailto:Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org mailto:Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org mailto:Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] GHC maintenance on Arch
I believe your main question (how do I do my work without wasting time) has already been answered: use IgnorePkg. I would like to add, in case you missed it, that there is a mailing list and community specifically for Haskell on Arch. Here is the webpage: https://wiki.archlinux.org/index.php/ArchHaskell The [haskell] repository is currently in sync with Hackage and builds with the latest ghc. (It does not yet include all of Hackage; your help would be welcome.) (The [haskell-web] and [haskell-extra] repos include more packages, with more or less in-sync-ness and omissions due to ghc 7.6 failures.) Ultimately we do want Arch packages for Haskell packages, because cabal is not a package manager (see https://ivanmiljenovic.wordpress.com/2010/03/15/repeat-after-me-cabal-is-not-a-package-manager/ ). On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 8:49 PM, timothyho...@seznam.cz wrote: Hello, Who is in charge of the ghc and haskell packages on Arch linux? The current system isn't working. Arch linux tends to update packages very quickly. For ghc, always having the latest ghc isn't a good thing. At least if you actually want to get some work done. A majority of the time the latest GHC is unusable. This is because the packages in hackage simply don't keep up. With the current ghc version(7.6.1) even some basic packages in hackage are not upgraded yet. Right now, a large number of other haskell related packages are in the arch repos. Other than gtk2hs, I think these packages are pointless duplications. In the other cases, it has been my experience that it is simpler to maintain these packages through cabal rather than through pacman. Support for these packages in Arch should probably be dropped. If you want to get work done in Arch with haskell, you should only install ghc and cabal-install(right now, you'll have to search the Internet for the old binaries, because the arch repos usually don't keep the old versions around). Then you should add these packages to IgnorePkg = in pacman.conf this way things won't break every couple of months. You can then choose to upgrade when you wish. I hope that someone who is involved with the haskell Arch stuff reads this. The current model needs to be rethought. Linux should be sane by default, but I've lost many many hours learning that arch's relationship with haskell is not so :( Probably the best solution would be to make Arch automatically keep two versions of ghc around at any given time. Thank you for your time, Timothy Hobbs ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] GHC maintenance on Arch
If all you want is the Haskell Platform, I believe the Arch policy is to provide all those packages in the official [extra] repository. (If those are broken because of the new ghc, just use IgnorePkg to avoid the ghc update.) The [haskell] and other ArchHaskell repos are for the rest of Hackage that's not in the Platform. On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 1:53 PM, Brandon Allbery allber...@gmail.comwrote: On Mon, Oct 29, 2012 at 5:56 AM, Magnus Therning mag...@therning.orgwrote: Now I'm going to run the risk of upsetting you quite a bit by being completely blunt. Indeed. You come across in your mail like someone who has thought through your own situation, but fail to see the larger picture. You do know *your* May I ask you a question, then? Does the Haskell Platform have any reason to exist? Supposedly, the Haskell community backs the Haskell Platform as the way that most users should be using the Platform. Yet we have here a vendor platform which does not support it, and newcomers who notice this and question it are chastised for not thinking about the needs of other people. This suggests that the Haskell Platform is unimportant and perhaps disruptive to some significant group of people... is this so? And then, looking at your own message, I must ask: have you considered that the Platform is aimed at the great many people who do not have large amounts of expertise maintaining their own personal Haskell ecosystem. Or are your needs so important that these people must in fact be told to deal? Or, to phrase in your own words: You come across in your mail like someone who has thought through your own situation, but fail to see the larger picture. -- brandon s allbery kf8nh sine nomine associates allber...@gmail.com ballb...@sinenomine.net unix/linux, openafs, kerberos, infrastructure http://sinenomine.net ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] [Security] Put haskell.org on https
I support this proposal too. More reasons to use HTTPS can be found at https://www.eff.org/https-everywhere/deploying-https On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 8:51 AM, Petr P petr@gmail.com wrote: 2012/10/28 Francesco Mazzoli f...@mazzo.li: At Sun, 28 Oct 2012 00:20:16 +0100, Niklas Hambüchen wrote: (I have mentioned this several times on #haskell, but nothing has happened so far.) Are you aware that all haskell.org websites (hackage, HaskellWiki, ghc trac) allow unencrypted http connections only? This means that everyone in the same Wifi can potentially - read you passwords for all of these services - abuse your hackage account and override arbitrary packages (especially since hackage allows everybody to override everything) I propose we get an SSL certificate for haskell.org. I also offer to donate that SSL certificate (or directly create it using my Startcom account). Agreed, I can chip in - but I think a certificate is pretty cheap nowadays :). Good idea, I completely support it. Major sites like Google, Github, BitBucket, etc. are https only nowadays. Petr Pudlak ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] NYC Haskell Developer Wanted
I encourage you to post this and other job advertisments here as well: http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Jobs On Thu, Oct 11, 2012 at 4:05 PM, Doug Beardsley d...@karamaan.com wrote: Karamaan Group, a principal investment firm based in Manhattan is looking for an outstanding software developer to develop tools for financial analysis and knowledge management. Candidates should have at least a bachelor's degree in computer science and a good sense of coding style. This is a high-impact, high-visibility job opportunity where successful candidates will be entrusted with a lot of responsibility for products that have a direct effect on the PL of the firm and influences our workflow. Karamaan Group is a small hedge fund, so the next hire will have a very direct influence on our software development and the firm as a whole. We are a growth oriented firm that values people who take a craftsman's pride in their work. We like to take a contrarian view of things, value experimenting, and use often overlooked technologies. We are looking for a candidate who shows strong analytical, organizational, and communication skills. We have a legacy Java code base that may need occasional maintenance, but for the past few years, most of our new development has been done with Haskell (with bits and pieces of a few other languages here and there). The ideal candidate would have at least some experience with Java and the related technologies used in our existing code, but since Haskell is our language of choice, we're looking for strong Haskell skills. We have a knowledge management system built on Snap, so experience with Snap or Haskell web development in general would help. Unlike most finance companies, we don't require previous experience in finance or business, but knowledge in those areas is definitely a plus. Please send your CV and cover letter to recruitment at karamaan.com. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Invitation to connect on LinkedIn
On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 7:21 PM, damodar kulkarni kdamodar2...@gmail.comwrote: Hi, Correct me if I am wrong, but by looking at the way the message is created, I think, LinkedIn is acting a kind of spammer these days. Shall we lodge protest against it as a community? I'd support such a protest. As an aside, can we not automatically delete all messages to haskell mailing-lists whose from field contains LinkedIn (and the likes of it) in it? -Damodar On Wed, Sep 12, 2012 at 9:12 PM, Sakari Joinen via LinkedIn mem...@linkedin.com wrote: [image: LinkedIn Logo] http://www.linkedin.com/ Steve, Sakari Joinen wants to connect with you on LinkedIn. Sakari Joinen Senior QA Engineer at Rocketpack View Profile »http://www.linkedin.com/e/uc6lxc-h70llpqy-2x/rso/203924390/GIO8/name/2590796_I425561150_15/eml-comm_invm-b-pro_txt-inv28/?hs=falsetok=0etVV1LByeHlo1 Accepthttp://www.linkedin.com/e/uc6lxc-h70llpqy-2x/XvIdBwmueHfd6vFMPXXdLaqreCbl5oOSpPTFPU/blk/I425561150_15/0UcDpKqiRzolZKqiRybmRSrCBvrmRLoORIrmkZt5YCpnlOt3RApnhMpmdzgmhxrSNBszYRclYMdj4NdzkRczh9bThqd3kOp5tMbP0TdjgMd3wNdzwLrCBxbOYWrSlI/eml-comm_invm-b-in_ac-inv28/?hs=falsetok=0SXF1g5wqeHlo1 You are receiving Invitation emails. Unsubscribehttps://www.linkedin.com/e/uc6lxc-h70llpqy-2x/XvIdBwmueHfd6vFMPXXdLaqreCbl5oOSpPTFPU/prv/?hs=falsetok=1cq1jVz5SeHlo1. This email was intended for Steve Severance (Principal at Alpha Heavy Industries). Learn why we included thishttp://www.linkedin.com/e/uc6lxc-h70llpqy-2x/plh/http%3A%2F%2Fhelp%2Elinkedin%2Ecom%2Fapp%2Fanswers%2Fdetail%2Fa_id%2F4788/-GXI/?hs=falsetok=38T1PPvOmeHlo1. © 2012, LinkedIn Corporation. 2029 Stierlin Ct. Mountain View, CA 94043, USA ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Haskell with all the safeties off
On Fri, Sep 7, 2012 at 5:56 PM, Edward Z. Yang ezy...@mit.edu wrote: Excerpts from David Feuer's message of Fri Sep 07 12:06:00 -0400 2012: They're not *usually* desirable, but when the code has been proven not to fall into bottom, there doesn't seem to be much point in ensuring that things will work right if it does. This sort of thing only really makes sense when using Haskell as a compiler target. OK, so it sounds like what you're more looking for is a way of giving extra information to GHC's strictness analyzer, so that it is more willing to unbox/skip making thunks even when the analyzer itself isn't able to figure it out. But it seems to me that in any such case, there might be a way to add seq's which have equivalent effect. But in the case that you've independently proven the code correct, it would be much more convenient to just tell GHC to trust me with a flag rather than having to go analyse and edit the code to put in the required seqs (thereby breaking the proof too...) Edward ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Darcs fetches too little files
On Aug 29, 2012 10:56 PM, Henk-Jan van Tuyl hjgt...@chello.nl wrote: On Wed, 29 Aug 2012 23:10:24 +0200, Stefan Monnier monn...@iro.umontreal.ca wrote: Albert Einstein said: Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results. I repeated the command today and it worked! So, did you expect the result to be different, or did you re-try just to confirm that it doesn't work? The day after I tried the command the first time, I thought the result might be different; I have the experience that my browser crashes, and starting it again results in an immediate crash. Logging off and on again solves the problem. This might be because of a corrupted DLL or a corrupted data area of a DLL. The command failure could have also been caused by a problem at the server side. In conclusion: repeating the same thing could give different results. This depends on what counts as the same. (There is a nice book called The Subtlety of Sameness.) I'm surprised that as users of a language that makes a big deal out of referential transparency none of you have said that neither invoking the same command at a different time nor invoking a browser after changing context (logging in again) is doing the same thing. Regards, Henk-Jan van Tuyl -- http://Van.Tuyl.eu/ http://members.chello.nl/hjgtuyl/tourdemonad.html Haskell programming -- ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] formal semantics
Thanks much Kristopher, Gershom, and Aaron, for the excellent pointers. (Keep them coming, anyone else - maybe we can update the wiki..) I will look into them in more detail soon. On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 5:12 PM, Aaron Tomb aaront...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, Last summer, as part of the Summer of Code, David Lazar formalized a significant portion of Haskell 98 in the K framework. You can find the code here: https://github.com/davidlazar/haskell-semantics And there's a talk about it here: http://corp.galois.com/blog/2012/1/12/new-tech-talk-video-formalizing-haskell-98-in-the-k-semantic.html I think David is working from essentially the same goals you have in mind. Aaron On Thu, Aug 23, 2012 at 9:23 AM, Ramana Kumar ramana.ku...@cl.cam.ac.uk wrote: Dear Haskell Cafe I'm looking for information on past and current attempts to write semantics for Haskell. Features I'm particularly interested in are: formal mechanised maintainable up to date Of course, if nothing like that exists then partial attempts towards it could still be useful. My ultimate aims include: Make it viable to define Haskell formally (i.e. so mechanised semantics can take over the normative role of the Haskell reports). Write a verified (or verify an existing) Haskell compiler (where verified means semantics preserving). Cheers, Ramana ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] formal semantics
On Sat, Aug 25, 2012 at 8:17 PM, Kristopher Micinski krismicin...@gmail.com wrote: Still unsure if the translation from Haskell to Core has been verified, I would suspect not, as I haven't heard of any such thing. If it is only Core that has semantics, then it wouldn't make sense to verify the translation from Haskell to Core. Rather, the translation itself would be the semantics of (sugared) Haskell. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] formal semantics
Dear Haskell Cafe I'm looking for information on past and current attempts to write semantics for Haskell. Features I'm particularly interested in are: - formal - mechanised - maintainable - up to date Of course, if nothing like that exists then partial attempts towards it could still be useful. My ultimate aims include: 1. Make it viable to define Haskell formally (i.e. so mechanised semantics can take over the normative role of the Haskell reports). 2. Write a verified (or verify an existing) Haskell compiler (where verified means semantics preserving). Cheers, Ramana ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
