Re: [Haskell-cafe] [Off-topic] How unimportant it is whether submarines can swim (EWD1056)
On Sun, Oct 28, 2012 at 11:29 AM, Rustom Mody wrote: > In particular, there is one small notational point that he insisted on > towards the end of his career (and life) viz. where traditional > mathematicians write *f(x) *and functional programmers write *f x*, he > would write *f.x* , ie he showed apply with a '.' > > In trying to understand his intentions, I wrote the following > 'thought-dialogue' [as in thought-experiment :-) ] > http://www.the-magus.in/Publications/ewd.pdf > I didn't read all of it, but near the end when "EWD" made the point about how function application should be a first-class operator and not mere whitespace, "Haskeller" missed a golden opportunity to segue into applicative functors. -- Kim-Ee ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] [Off-topic] How unimportant it is whether submarines can swim (EWD1056)
On Sat, Oct 27, 2012 at 2:21 AM, Henk-Jan van Tuyl wrote: > > L.S., > > I thought you might be interested to know, that I have translated one of > prof. Edsger W. Dijkstra's writings to English[0]. I will submit this > translation to the E. W. Dijkstra Archive of the University of Texas[1]. > > Some of the highlights: > - can submarines swim? > - redefining mathematics > - something unimaginably unimaginable > - a baby faster than fighter jets > > Regards, > Henk-Jan van Tuyl > Thank you Henk-Jan for doing this -- It's always a treat reading Dijkstra! I had some small corrections to make but it seems others have already spotted them. Only one general comment: Your use of courier font quite threw me off -- I thought I was reading 'an original EWD nnn' … until I saw the last line -- Translated by Henk-Jan van Tuyl 2012-10-13! Dijkstra's connection with functional programming is enigmatic and very interesting. On the one hand he seems to say that the only proper languages are imperative, yet at the meta level, his semantics has a strong kind of functional flavour -- he would argue that his semantics are more functional than even denotational semantics! In particular, there is one small notational point that he insisted on towards the end of his career (and life) viz. where traditional mathematicians write *f(x) *and functional programmers write *f x*, he would write *f.x* , ie he showed apply with a '.' In trying to understand his intentions, I wrote the following 'thought-dialogue' [as in thought-experiment :-) ] http://www.the-magus.in/Publications/ewd.pdf Regards Rusi ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] [Off-topic] How unimportant it is whether submarines can swim (EWD1056)
It is an interesting piece and I'm glad you went to the effort
to translate it.
- ...the question whether...
+ ...the question of whether or not...
To use "could" is to form either the past or the subjunctive.
Within a long sentence, we might prefer to contribute an article
"on" a topic as opposed to "about" a topic.
Burning is one of those things that is often taken to be all or
nothing; so "equally burning" is infelicitous. One could say
"similarly burning" or "likewise burning" to mean, it is also
burning.
So:
+ It has already been a few years or so ago now since the
+ editors of a somewhat obscure magazine asked me to contribute
+ an article on the question of whether or not computers can
+ think. I did not feel like doing that and I explained my
+ refusal with the remark that I found the suggested topic just
+ as unimportant as the similarly burning question of whether or
+ not submarines can swim.
It is hard to make the idiom "reckoned on" work in the
parenthetical passage; there are alternatives.
- I had reckoned without my host: the editor —a sociologist—
- wrote me back, that he found that last question very
- interesting as well!
+ I had not considered my audience: the editor -- a sociologist
+ -- wrote back, to say that he found the last question very
+ interesting as well!"
"with which popular believe" -> "with which popular belief"
As remarked by Gwern.
- A single factor of ten is already a difference between day and
- night...
+ A single factor of ten is like night and day...
It is important that an EM dash have spaces to both sides of it. For example:
- —in anthropomorphic terminology also called "memory size"—
+ -- in anthropomorphic terminology also called "memory size" --
One may use "such as" and "like" when providing examples; one
uses "as" and "like" when forming comparisons. ("Icarus flew
like a bird." or "Icarus flew as the birds do." but not "Icarus
flew such as a bird.").
- The advantage of this poetic license is that it allows us to
- put an algebraic expression as (a+b)/c, a program fragment as
- x := x+1, and a decimal number like 729 all three under the
- same heading "formula".
+ The advantage of this poetic license is that it allows us to
+ put an algebraic expression as (a+b)/c, a program fragment as
+ x := x+1, and a decimal number like 729 all three under the
+ same heading "formula".
- Such a formal universe is therefore as novelty radical...
+ Such a formal universe is therefore a radical novelty...
- The most salient feature of the formal universe is, however,
- that nothing else than...
+ The most salient feature of the formal universe is, however,
+ that nothing other than...
+ The most salient feature of the formal universe, however, is
+ that nothing besides...
- Our traditional argues are mixed, viz. partly formal and
- partly verbal...
+ Our traditional ways of arguing are mixed, partly formal and
+ partly verbal...
- In that vision, a radical change of course in mathematics
- would leave in the long term footprints in the vast majority
- of our intellectual life.
+ In that vision, a radical change in mathematics would in time
+ leave an imprint in most areas of our intellectual life.
- I expect such a radical change of course.
+ I expect such a radical change, of course.
There would be a certain appropriateness in making the text more
"Texan". The title would then be:
It don't matter none whether subs can swim or not
but it'd really take a different American to see it through.
--
Jason Dusek
pgp // solidsnack // C1EBC57DC55144F35460C8DF1FD4C6C1FED18A2B
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Re: [Haskell-cafe] [Off-topic] How unimportant it is whether submarines can swim (EWD1056)
On Sat, 27 Oct 2012 00:17:27 +0200, Gwern Branwen wrote: - "with which popular believe" (popular belief?) Changed - "between day and night" (night and day is more idiomatic in English, isn't it?) I changed it, although, according to Google, "between day and night" is used very often as well - 'The advantage of this poetic license is that it allows us to put an algebraic expression as (a+b)/c, a program fragment as x := x+1, and a decimal number like 729 all three under the same heading "formula".' (all three is weirdly run together with the list) "as" should be "like:" 'The advantage of this poetic license is that it allows us to put an algebraic expression like (a+b)/c, a program fragment like x := x+1, and a decimal number like 729 all three under the same heading "formula".' These three different items are listed together on purpose. - "Our traditional argues" (?) I suppose that should be "Our traditional arguments". I guess that is what you get when starting from an automatic translation, the same kind of bugs as with copy/paste coding. Regards, Henk-Jan van Tuyl -- http://Van.Tuyl.eu/ http://members.chello.nl/hjgtuyl/tourdemonad.html Haskell programming -- ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] [Off-topic] How unimportant it is whether submarines can swim (EWD1056)
On Fri, Oct 26, 2012 at 4:51 PM, Henk-Jan van Tuyl wrote: > > L.S., > > I thought you might be interested to know, that I have translated one of > prof. Edsger W. Dijkstra's writings to English[0]. I will submit this > translation to the E. W. Dijkstra Archive of the University of Texas[1]. Comments: - "with which popular believe" (popular belief?) - "between day and night" (night and day is more idiomatic in English, isn't it?) - 'The advantage of this poetic license is that it allows us to put an algebraic expression as (a+b)/c, a program fragment as x := x+1, and a decimal number like 729 all three under the same heading "formula".' (all three is weirdly run together with the list) - "Our traditional argues" (?) The hyphenation also strikes me as odd but I guess not actually wrong. -- gwern http://www.gwern.net ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] [Off-topic] How unimportant it is whether submarines can swim (EWD1056)
L.S., I thought you might be interested to know, that I have translated one of prof. Edsger W. Dijkstra's writings to English[0]. I will submit this translation to the E. W. Dijkstra Archive of the University of Texas[1]. Some of the highlights: - can submarines swim? - redefining mathematics - something unimaginably unimaginable - a baby faster than fighter jets Regards, Henk-Jan van Tuyl [0] http://members.chello.nl/hjgtuyl/computing/EWD1056.html [1] http://www.cs.utexas.edu/users/EWD/welcome.html -- http://Van.Tuyl.eu/ http://members.chello.nl/hjgtuyl/tourdemonad.html Haskell programming -- ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
