Re: [Haskell-cafe] Question: Lazy Incremental Evaluation and Haskell?
On 10/08/2011 12:46 PM, Jan-Willem Maessen wrote: On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Brandon Moorebrandon_m_mo...@yahoo.com wrote: Margnus Carlsson did something monadic several years ago. http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=581478.581482 Perhaps there is an implementation on Hackage or on his website. This stuff also goes by the moniker adaptive computation. See the references and citations of that paper for more on this. Umut Acar now seems to refer to this as self-adjusting computation, and has some work here: http://umut.mpi-sws.org/self-adjusting-computation In particular, there seems to be a modified version of Mlton. To tie things together a bit, Magnus Carlsson's paper was based on Umut Acar's earlier work. Note in particular that there's a lot of emphasis placed on efficiently figuring out what computation needs to be re-done (and some theory to support those efficiency claims). FRP frameworks, etc. naively re-do rather too much computation (all of it, in particularly poor cases) compared to systems specifically tailored to self-adjustment. -Jan-Willem Maessen 1. Thank you! This is the kind of thing I was looking for. It (a) uses compiler/interpreter infrastructure (not explicit programmer directives) to (b) construct a dynamic dependency graph that reflects the structure of the computation. I am curious if anyone has constructed a modified STG machine (which doesn't modify running code, I guess?) or alternatively a graph-based machine like Sestoft's mark 1 machine (that actually modifies running code) that would track dependencies. That would be call-by-need instead of call-by-value. (Just for clarification, I am interested in calculations where the individual operations (e.g. analogous to '+') are extremely slow and are currently written in C++. Therefore, a certain amount of overhead seems tolerable. ) 2. Another question would be: most of the self-adjusting computation frameworks seem to assume that we always throw away the old computation. For function optimization (or, alternatively, Markov chain Monte Carlo random walks) we keep either the old or the new computation based on the result of the new computation. Thus, we would not like to simply over-write the old computation when we do the new computation. This could mean splitting (part of) the dynamic dependency graph, which might incur a lot of memory allocation overhead... -BenRI ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Question: Lazy Incremental Evaluation and Haskell?
David Barbour wrote: Heinrich Apfelmus wrote: Even then, events and behaviors are one abstraction level too low. In my opinion, you are better off with a library/approach geared directly towards incremental computations. I believe behaviors are precisely the 'right' abstraction if the goal is to model variables in a computation changing over time. But I agree that, if the libraries aren't taking advantage of the implicit optimization opportunities, you are better off finding libraries that do. I agree that behaviors are the right abstraction if you only want to know what result is being calculated, not how it is going to be calculated. Unfortunately, the how is important for incremental computations because there is no single canonical way to implement efficient updates. It often depends on which functions are expensive, which can actually be decoupled, and so on. I don't know any good abstraction for specifying the how; I do know that FRP doesn't help much with that. Best regards, Heinrich Apfelmus -- http://apfelmus.nfshost.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Question: Lazy Incremental Evaluation and Haskell?
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 2:46 PM, Brandon Moore brandon_m_mo...@yahoo.com wrote: Margnus Carlsson did something monadic several years ago. http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=581478.581482 Perhaps there is an implementation on Hackage or on his website. This stuff also goes by the moniker adaptive computation. See the references and citations of that paper for more on this. Umut Acar now seems to refer to this as self-adjusting computation, and has some work here: http://umut.mpi-sws.org/self-adjusting-computation In particular, there seems to be a modified version of Mlton. To tie things together a bit, Magnus Carlsson's paper was based on Umut Acar's earlier work. Note in particular that there's a lot of emphasis placed on efficiently figuring out what computation needs to be re-done (and some theory to support those efficiency claims). FRP frameworks, etc. naively re-do rather too much computation (all of it, in particularly poor cases) compared to systems specifically tailored to self-adjustment. -Jan-Willem Maessen ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Question: Lazy Incremental Evaluation and Haskell?
Functional Reactive Programming can model this sort of 'change over time' incremental computation, but I doubt you'd get a performance benefit from it unless your operations are considerably more expensive than '+' on numbers. Look into the 'Reactive' library, and Conal Elliott's paper on it (Push-Pull FRP). On Thu, Oct 6, 2011 at 2:55 PM, Benjamin Redelings I benjamin.redeli...@duke.edu wrote: Hi all, I'm not sure this is the right forum for this question. If so, please let me know where else might be more appropriate. My question is, roughly, is there already an existing framework for incremental evaluation in Haskell? That is, if I write a program using Haskell, and then change a small part of this program, can the modified program re-use any results which are calculated by the first, unmodified program? This would be really useful for CPU-intensive statistical software and other scientific computing. For example, if I have the expression (x+y)+z, where x=1, y=2, and z=4, then I need not recalculate (x+y) when z changes. However, (x+y)+z must still be recalculated. This is useful in speeding up statistical software that optimizes a complex function of many arguments, when only one argument changes at a time. It is also useful for Markov chain Monte Carlo (MCMC) since usually one changes only one argument at a time there as well. I haven't seen much work on this using the lambda calculus for this since JH Field's Ph.D. Thesis Incremental Reduction in the Lambda Calculus. There are a number of programs that represent the calculation as a static DAG (directed, acyclic graph), but this can't handle functions very well. I'm currently trying to write an interpreter that could do this correctly, but I don't want to reinvent the wheel. Can anyone point me to where I could find more information about how to do this in a Haskell framework? thanks! -BenRI -- Benjamin Redelings __**_ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/**mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafehttp://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Question: Lazy Incremental Evaluation and Haskell?
Hi Benjamin, My question is, roughly, is there already an existing framework for incremental evaluation in Haskell? We at Utrecht have done some work on this: http://people.cs.uu.nl/andres/Incrementalization/ Simply put, if your computation is a fold/catamorphism, then you can easily take advantage of a generic framework for incremental evaluation. We haven't actually turned this into a library, but if you're interested, we can discuss doing that. Regards, Sean ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Question: Lazy Incremental Evaluation and Haskell?
David Barbour wrote: Benjamin Redelings wrote: My question is, roughly, is there already an existing framework for incremental evaluation in Haskell? Functional Reactive Programming can model this sort of 'change over time' incremental computation, but I doubt you'd get a performance benefit from it unless your operations are considerably more expensive than '+' on numbers. Look into the 'Reactive' library, and Conal Elliott's paper on it (Push-Pull FRP). I'm currently developing a library for functional reactive programming[1] and I've thought a bit about incremental evaluation and FRP. Here my conclusions: FRP is somewhat orthogonal to incremental computation because FRP is focusing on expressiveness while incremental computation focuses on performance. You can formulate some incremental algorithms in terms of FRP, but you need special support from the implementation to make it efficient. I do know that reactive-banana can handle some cases, but I have my doubts whether Conal's Reactive library can (afaik, nobody has tried to reason about its resource usage explicitly). Even then, events and behaviors are one abstraction level too low. In my opinion, you are better off with a library/approach geared directly towards incremental computations. [1]: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Reactive-banana Best regards, Heinrich Apfelmus -- http://apfelmus.nfshost.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Question: Lazy Incremental Evaluation and Haskell?
On Fri, Oct 7, 2011 at 3:17 AM, Heinrich Apfelmus apfel...@quantentunnel.de wrote: FRP is somewhat orthogonal to incremental computation because FRP is focusing on expressiveness while incremental computation focuses on performance. You can formulate some incremental algorithms in terms of FRP, but you need special support from the implementation to make it efficient. Granted. The 'Reactive' library provides some special support for composing constant behavior values, but I share your doubts about its suitability for high-performance incremental computation. By my understanding from Push-Pull FRP, it should scale poorly in terms of linear 'checks' of promises when trying to find which variables have changed. If you have 1000 variables you still might need to probe up to 1000 promises (or more, if you use vars more than once) to see their next time-of-change. My asynchronous arrows and reactive demand programming model is well suited for incremental computation, having been designed for scalability and distributed computation (breaking it into multiple pipelines with minimal synchronization interactions at zip and merge). But it currently lacks a complete implementation. Even then, events and behaviors are one abstraction level too low. In my opinion, you are better off with a library/approach geared directly towards incremental computations. I believe behaviors are precisely the 'right' abstraction if the goal is to model variables in a computation changing over time. But I agree that, if the libraries aren't taking advantage of the implicit optimization opportunities, you are better off finding libraries that do. Regards, Dave ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Question: Lazy Incremental Evaluation and Haskell?
From: Peter Gammie pete...@gmail.com Oct 6. 2011 6:58 PM Ben, On 07/10/2011, at 8:55 AM, Benjamin Redelings I wrote: My question is, roughly, is there already an existing framework for incremental evaluation in Haskell? Margnus Carlsson did something monadic several years ago. http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=581478.581482 Perhaps there is an implementation on Hackage or on his website. This stuff also goes by the moniker adaptive computation. See the references and citations of that paper for more on this. Umut Acar now seems to refer to this as self-adjusting computation, and has some work here: http://umut.mpi-sws.org/self-adjusting-computation In particular, there seems to be a modified version of Mlton. Brandon ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
[Haskell-cafe] Question: Lazy Incremental Evaluation and Haskell?
Hi all, I'm not sure this is the right forum for this question. If so, please let me know where else might be more appropriate. My question is, roughly, is there already an existing framework for incremental evaluation in Haskell? That is, if I write a program using Haskell, and then change a small part of this program, can the modified program re-use any results which are calculated by the first, unmodified program? This would be really useful for CPU-intensive statistical software and other scientific computing. For example, if I have the expression (x+y)+z, where x=1, y=2, and z=4, then I need not recalculate (x+y) when z changes. However, (x+y)+z must still be recalculated. This is useful in speeding up statistical software that optimizes a complex function of many arguments, when only one argument changes at a time. It is also useful for Markov chain Monte Carlo (MCMC) since usually one changes only one argument at a time there as well. I haven't seen much work on this using the lambda calculus for this since JH Field's Ph.D. Thesis Incremental Reduction in the Lambda Calculus. There are a number of programs that represent the calculation as a static DAG (directed, acyclic graph), but this can't handle functions very well. I'm currently trying to write an interpreter that could do this correctly, but I don't want to reinvent the wheel. Can anyone point me to where I could find more information about how to do this in a Haskell framework? thanks! -BenRI -- Benjamin Redelings ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Question: Lazy Incremental Evaluation and Haskell?
Ben, On 07/10/2011, at 8:55 AM, Benjamin Redelings I wrote: My question is, roughly, is there already an existing framework for incremental evaluation in Haskell? Margnus Carlsson did something monadic several years ago. http://dl.acm.org/citation.cfm?doid=581478.581482 Perhaps there is an implementation on Hackage or on his website. This stuff also goes by the moniker adaptive computation. See the references and citations of that paper for more on this. cheers peter -- http://peteg.org/ ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
