Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
On 11/08/06, Clifford Beshers [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I've been avoiding that, because there are too many things I'm tempted to fiddle with inside it. But you've talked me into it. See also the really simple Hoogle/Emacs integration: http://haskell.org/haskellwiki/Hoogle#Using_Hoogle_from_Emacs -- -David House, [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
Hello Johan, Friday, August 11, 2006, 4:43:27 PM, you wrote: Haskell was mentioned in an article called Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream on the blog defmacro.org the other day and I thought maybe someone would be interested (i.e. is procrastinating at work and need an excuse to do something else). Any comments? http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/not-ready.html i'm 100% agree with this article. imho Haskell is not ready for _application_ programming mainly because of 3 issues: - lack of specialists (and this means lack of teaching, training, books) - lack of IDE/RAD tools (this includes debugging, visual construction of GUI+DB part of program and so on) - lack of variety of libraries (application programmers want to have many libraries pre-written) imvho, these issues are less important for system programming (such as creating of web server or CMS system), so Haskell, with all its features, now is a great tool for system programming. for example, i've written zip-like tool with ghc -- Best regards, Bulatmailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
Hi, The bug that you have to download the old libraries for win32 on WinHugs is my fault, and is fixed in HEAD. Once the base library compiles with Windows and Hugs once more I'll start making a new release. Thanks Neil On 8/11/06, Johan Tibell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Haskell was mentioned in an article called Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream on the blog defmacro.org the other day and I thought maybe someone would be interested (i.e. is procrastinating at work and need an excuse to do something else). Any comments? http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/not-ready.html ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
On Fri, 2006-08-11 at 14:43 +0200, Johan Tibell wrote: Haskell was mentioned in an article called Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream on the blog defmacro.org the other day and I thought maybe someone would be interested (i.e. is procrastinating at work and need an excuse to do something else). Any comments? http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/not-ready.html We need to be better ad advertising what works and what is still experimental. Eg Graphics.SOE is broken (though there are replacements), VisualHaskell is cool but still rather experimental. Other things Just Worktm, perhaps we need to advertise those. Duncan ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
Hi I also use http://haskell.org/hoogle quite a bit and I keep meaning to install the lambda bot locally on my machine so that I can ask it. If you download and compile hoogle from the darcs repo, there is a console version included. Of course, lambdabot gives you lots more than just hoogle, so might still be the one for you. Thanks Neil ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
Thanks for the pointers, but I think I'm looking for type information specific to my program. The VisualHaskell feature of which I am envious is the ability to tell me the type of any identifier in my program. Disclaimer: I've never used VisualHaskell and am going only by what I read on its features page. sqrs l = map fn l where fn x = x+2 Presumably, VisualHaskell would let me mouse-over/select the x in x+2 and tell me that it's of type 'Num a = a'; where I could mouse-over/select srqs and it would tell me that it's of type 'Num a = [a] - [a]' (not necessarily the same a!). Of course this isn't too helpful with this example, but start imagining method definitions for = or the like on hairier data structures. I don't know how VisualHaskell handles type-errors, but I think it'd be neat if it gave me as much info as possible when errors were in the picture--that's exactly when I need the info the most! And, of course, I'd like this functionality in a multi-platform editor. Nick On 8/11/06, Neil Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I also use http://haskell.org/hoogle quite a bit and I keep meaning to install the lambda bot locally on my machine so that I can ask it. If you download and compile hoogle from the darcs repo, there is a console version included. Of course, lambdabot gives you lots more than just hoogle, so might still be the one for you. Thanks Neil ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
Maybe it could also catch errors in my cafe emails... sqrs l = map sqr l where sqr x = x*x On 8/11/06, Nicolas Frisby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the pointers, but I think I'm looking for type information specific to my program. The VisualHaskell feature of which I am envious is the ability to tell me the type of any identifier in my program. Disclaimer: I've never used VisualHaskell and am going only by what I read on its features page. sqrs l = map fn l where fn x = x+2 Presumably, VisualHaskell would let me mouse-over/select the x in x+2 and tell me that it's of type 'Num a = a'; where I could mouse-over/select srqs and it would tell me that it's of type 'Num a = [a] - [a]' (not necessarily the same a!). Of course this isn't too helpful with this example, but start imagining method definitions for = or the like on hairier data structures. I don't know how VisualHaskell handles type-errors, but I think it'd be neat if it gave me as much info as possible when errors were in the picture--that's exactly when I need the info the most! And, of course, I'd like this functionality in a multi-platform editor. Nick On 8/11/06, Neil Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I also use http://haskell.org/hoogle quite a bit and I keep meaning to install the lambda bot locally on my machine so that I can ask it. If you download and compile hoogle from the darcs repo, there is a console version included. Of course, lambdabot gives you lots more than just hoogle, so might still be the one for you. Thanks Neil ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
Is there a console version of lambdabot? I compiled and installed it locally, but it seems to print out the IRC messages, not plain-text messages. Do I need to install a local IRC server or is it possible to switch it to the plain-text mode? On 8/11/06, Neil Mitchell [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi I also use http://haskell.org/hoogle quite a bit and I keep meaning to install the lambda bot locally on my machine so that I can ask it.If you download and compile hoogle from the darcs repo, there is a console version included. Of course, lambdabot gives you lots morethan just hoogle, so might still be the one for you.ThanksNeil___Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.orghttp://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- Best regards,Ivan Tarasov ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
Neil Mitchell wrote: If you download and compile hoogle from the darcs repo, there is a console version included. Of course, lambdabot gives you lots more than just hoogle, so might still be the one for you. I've been avoiding that, because there are too many things I'm tempted to fiddle with inside it. But you've talked me into it. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
On 8/11/06, Nicolas Frisby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Maybe it could also catch errors in my cafe emails... sqrs l = map sqr l where sqr x = x*x Would you really want to write your emails in VisualStudio? ;-) On 8/11/06, Nicolas Frisby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Thanks for the pointers, but I think I'm looking for type information specific to my program. The VisualHaskell feature of which I am envious is the ability to tell me the type of any identifier in my program. VisualHaskell can do this, *if* your program type checks. I'm hoping in a later version that ghc can be made more tolerant of errors for interactive use. Sometimes I want to know the type of something but I have an error (such as an unfinished line) somewhere else in the program. When this happens I often insert undefined in the trouble spots just so my program type checks. After I double check the type of something I go back to work and remove the undefined spots. This is okay, but for every feature I like about visual studio I miss two things from emacs (perhaps I just know it better). [snip] And, of course, I'd like this functionality in a multi-platform editor. Look at the eclipse plugin eclipse-fp. The main things I get out of VisualHaskell these days are the automatic generation of my cabal files and the updated COM library. I find myself using emacs and ghci fairly often. Also, I'm getting to where I can hack my own cabal files without much hassle, so really I'm just using it for the updated COM library. Jason ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
Nicolas, On 8/11/06, Nicolas Frisby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Is there anything similar to VisualHaskell that works in light-weight (compared to Studio...) and multi-platform editors? There is EclipseFP: http://eclipsefp.sourceforge.net It doesn't support type inference at edition, but it is likely to be added in the future. So, I'd advise you keep an eye on it. And you can trust this is very unbiased advice, since I am the current project maintainer. :-) I don't know if Eclipse is what you'd call light weight, but it is freely available if you want to try it. At least it runs satisfactorially on my machine with 512MB of memory. Cheers, Thiago Arrais -- Mergulhando no Caos - http://thiagoarrais.blogspot.com Pensamentos, idéias e devaneios sobre desenvolvimento de software e tecnologia em geral ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
Neil Mitchell wrote: Just as a warning, I've been offline without a computer for a week, and have now entirely redesigned pretty much every aspect of Hoogle 3 in preparation for Hoogle 4. Its all on paper for now, but in the very near future Hoogle will get completely rewritten :) Excellent. I see on your long term list an item for specifying module names as input. I don't suppose you plan to support something like 'Data.*' returning a list of all the modules at that level of the hierarchy? Recently I've been wanting an interactive command for browsing the module hierarchy. Switching to a browser just isn't cutting it anymore. ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] Why Exotic Languages Are Not Mainstream
Hi Excellent. I see on your long term list an item for specifying module names as input. I don't suppose you plan to support something like 'Data.*' returning a list of all the modules at that level of the hierarchy? Recently I've been wanting an interactive command for browsing the module hierarchy. Switching to a browser just isn't cutting it anymore. Hmm, with the newly designed Hoogle 4 you can do the search: +Data /module Which would give you that behaviour. It says only look for modules (you can also do /type, /class etc) and +Data says only look inside the Data namespace. As it stands you'd have to specify a text string to search for as well, but given this use case, I'll remove that restriction. I'll also look into if there is anything else to make this kind of thing a bit easier. Thanks Neil ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
