Re: [Haskell-cafe] killer app sought
With few exceptions, no such thing as a killer server-side app. The Web 3.0 paradigm is simple: all work except sharing and persistence of data is done on the client. Regards, John A. De Goes N-Brain, Inc. The Evolution of Collaboration http://www.n-brain.net|877-376-2724 x 101 On Oct 3, 2009, at 9:08 PM, Mark Wotton wrote: Hi, I've been writing a little binding from Ruby to Haskell called Hubris (http://github.com/mwotton/Hubris) which I think has some potential both for making Haskell web apps easier to write, and also for bringing the more adventurous Ruby programmers into the Haskell community. Code-wise it's coming along nicely, and once 6.12 is out it'll run without modifications at least on Linux (remains to be seen how long it'll take to get the Mac patches into shape). My real problem is marketing: I need a killer app that shows it's easy either to 1. wrap a kickarse Haskell library in a convenient Ruby web app shell 2. speed up a poorly performing Ruby web app I've been badgering the Ruby guys in Sydney that I know on the second point, but either none of them have performance problems, or none of them want to admit it. The first is entirely possible - if you only attack the subset of problems where your runtime is dominated by the database and network latency, language performance is moot. Conversely, if that's your worldview, the other problems that could be attacked won't ever come to mind (to monstrously abuse the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis). So, I'm asking you guys. What are some really nice Haskell libraries or apps that could benefit from being shown off in one of the plethora of slick, mature web frameworks that exist in Ruby? Manuel Chakravarty suggested something with vector operations in order to take advantage of his 'accelerate' library (once it gets a GPU backend, of course), and more generally, something taking advantage of Haskell's support for multicore would be cool. (The standard edition of Ruby is still unicore, I believe.) Parenthetically yours, Mark ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] killer app sought
IMO google web toolkit has done this for Java and I haven't tried it but maybe http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Haskell_in_web_browser does or will do this for Haskell. I still think that there is a place for web applications that are smart on the server side though. Best -Keith On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 5:55 PM, Alberto G. Corona agocor...@gmail.com wrote: Yes, Maybe The piece of the web that desperately need a boost in performance, declarativeness, safety, static typing threading, modularity etc etc etc is the Web Browser. 2009/10/4 John A. De Goes j...@n-brain.net With few exceptions, no such thing as a killer server-side app. The Web 3.0 paradigm is simple: all work except sharing and persistence of data is done on the client. Regards, John A. De Goes N-Brain, Inc. The Evolution of Collaboration http://www.n-brain.net | 877-376-2724 x 101 On Oct 3, 2009, at 9:08 PM, Mark Wotton wrote: Hi, I've been writing a little binding from Ruby to Haskell called Hubris (http://github.com/mwotton/Hubris) which I think has some potential both for making Haskell web apps easier to write, and also for bringing the more adventurous Ruby programmers into the Haskell community. Code-wise it's coming along nicely, and once 6.12 is out it'll run without modifications at least on Linux (remains to be seen how long it'll take to get the Mac patches into shape). My real problem is marketing: I need a killer app that shows it's easy either to 1. wrap a kickarse Haskell library in a convenient Ruby web app shell 2. speed up a poorly performing Ruby web app I've been badgering the Ruby guys in Sydney that I know on the second point, but either none of them have performance problems, or none of them want to admit it. The first is entirely possible - if you only attack the subset of problems where your runtime is dominated by the database and network latency, language performance is moot. Conversely, if that's your worldview, the other problems that could be attacked won't ever come to mind (to monstrously abuse the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis). So, I'm asking you guys. What are some really nice Haskell libraries or apps that could benefit from being shown off in one of the plethora of slick, mature web frameworks that exist in Ruby? Manuel Chakravarty suggested something with vector operations in order to take advantage of his 'accelerate' library (once it gets a GPU backend, of course), and more generally, something taking advantage of Haskell's support for multicore would be cool. (The standard edition of Ruby is still unicore, I believe.) Parenthetically yours, Mark ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- keithsheppard.name ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] killer app sought
I think having access to the parsec library would be a major plus that you can show off. Eg: you can have a RoR based email web app that uses parsec parsing to figure out which sections of an email thread belong to which author... Best -Keith On Sat, Oct 3, 2009 at 11:08 PM, Mark Wotton mwot...@gmail.com wrote: Hi, I've been writing a little binding from Ruby to Haskell called Hubris (http://github.com/mwotton/Hubris) which I think has some potential both for making Haskell web apps easier to write, and also for bringing the more adventurous Ruby programmers into the Haskell community. Code-wise it's coming along nicely, and once 6.12 is out it'll run without modifications at least on Linux (remains to be seen how long it'll take to get the Mac patches into shape). My real problem is marketing: I need a killer app that shows it's easy either to 1. wrap a kickarse Haskell library in a convenient Ruby web app shell 2. speed up a poorly performing Ruby web app I've been badgering the Ruby guys in Sydney that I know on the second point, but either none of them have performance problems, or none of them want to admit it. The first is entirely possible - if you only attack the subset of problems where your runtime is dominated by the database and network latency, language performance is moot. Conversely, if that's your worldview, the other problems that could be attacked won't ever come to mind (to monstrously abuse the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis). So, I'm asking you guys. What are some really nice Haskell libraries or apps that could benefit from being shown off in one of the plethora of slick, mature web frameworks that exist in Ruby? Manuel Chakravarty suggested something with vector operations in order to take advantage of his 'accelerate' library (once it gets a GPU backend, of course), and more generally, something taking advantage of Haskell's support for multicore would be cool. (The standard edition of Ruby is still unicore, I believe.) Parenthetically yours, Mark ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe -- keithsheppard.name ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] killer app sought
Mark Wotton wrote: Hi, I've been writing a little binding from Ruby to Haskell called Hubris (http://github.com/mwotton/Hubris) which I think has some potential both for making Haskell web apps easier to write, and also for bringing the more adventurous Ruby programmers into the Haskell community. Code-wise it's coming along nicely, and once 6.12 is out it'll run without modifications at least on Linux (remains to be seen how long it'll take to get the Mac patches into shape). My real problem is marketing: I need a killer app that shows it's easy either to 1. wrap a kickarse Haskell library in a convenient Ruby web app shell 2. speed up a poorly performing Ruby web app I've been badgering the Ruby guys in Sydney that I know on the second point, but either none of them have performance problems, or none of them want to admit it. Yeah, that can happen with some Rubyists. ;) The first is entirely possible - if you only attack the subset of problems where your runtime is dominated by the database and network latency, language performance is moot. Conversely, if that's your worldview, the other problems that could be attacked won't ever come to mind (to monstrously abuse the Sapir-Whorf hypothesis). So, I'm asking you guys. What are some really nice Haskell libraries or apps that could benefit from being shown off in one of the plethora of slick, mature web frameworks that exist in Ruby? Manuel Chakravarty suggested something with vector operations in order to take advantage of his 'accelerate' library (once it gets a GPU backend, of course), and more generally, something taking advantage of Haskell's support for multicore would be cool. (The standard edition of Ruby is still unicore, I believe.) I've been trying to think of a nice back-end app to run via a Ramaze Web front end, to combine the best of Ruby Web dev with the speed and elegance of Haskell. As mentioned, something that demonstrated multi-core-ability out of the box would be sweet. Some thoughts came to mind on image or audio manipulation, though details escape me.Or maybe text analysis. Showing that using Haskell is faster than using Ruby would be nice, but unimpressive, insomuch as people can already do that with C. So, a good example might also play off of the benefit of writing in Haskell instead of C. James Britt -- Neurogami - Smart application development http://www.neurogami.com ja...@neurogami.com ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
Re: [Haskell-cafe] killer app sought
On 04/10/2009, at 4:22 PM, James Britt wrote: Mark Wotton wrote: So, I'm asking you guys. What are some really nice Haskell libraries or apps that could benefit from being shown off in one of the plethora of slick, mature web frameworks that exist in Ruby? Manuel Chakravarty suggested something with vector operations in order to take advantage of his 'accelerate' library (once it gets a GPU backend, of course), and more generally, something taking advantage of Haskell's support for multicore would be cool. (The standard edition of Ruby is still unicore, I believe.) I've been trying to think of a nice back-end app to run via a Ramaze Web front end, to combine the best of Ruby Web dev with the speed and elegance of Haskell. As mentioned, something that demonstrated multi-core-ability out of the box would be sweet. Some thoughts came to mind on image or audio manipulation, though details escape me.Or maybe text analysis. Showing that using Haskell is faster than using Ruby would be nice, but unimpressive, insomuch as people can already do that with C. So, a good example might also play off of the benefit of writing in Haskell instead of C. The interesting thing is speed _and_ safety, I guess. although writing fast C on multicore is arguably harder than in Haskell. The Parsec suggestion is interesting, but from the outside, it wouldn't seem significantly different to doing it in C. Maybe if you could specify your own grammars from outside? Hm. Mark ___ Haskell-Cafe mailing list Haskell-Cafe@haskell.org http://www.haskell.org/mailman/listinfo/haskell-cafe
