Re: Haskell Prime 2020 committee
On 28/04/2016, wren romano wrote: > On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 5:19 PM, José Manuel Calderón Trilla > wrote: >> I was able to make an account with a longer username, but I am not >> able to edit the wiki. Unsure if it's some sort of anti-spam delay or >> some other issue with permissions. > > The issue I had wasn't about the local naming policy, but a > no-permissions error since I'm not an admin I can't see any edit links at all. I'm "strake" on the wiki by the way. ___ Haskell-prime mailing list Haskell-prime@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
Infrastructure and Communication
I am not on the committee, just a lurker. I find the Golang proposal/design doc approach amenable to the expected scope of work. Another benefit of the GitHub approach is greater participation by non committee members. Tom > GitHub allows for Git-based workflows, and there's prior art related to > language design we could steal ideas from, for instance: > > - https://github.com/fsharp/FSharpLangDesign > - https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs > - https://github.com/golang/proposal > - (any others noteworthy?) ___ Haskell-prime mailing list Haskell-prime@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
Evaluation order control between two expressions
Dear Community, Apologies if I'm missing context. Does Haskell 2020 specify evaluation order control by `pseq`? We use `pseq` to guarantee the evaluation order between two expressions. But Haskell 2010 did not specify how to control the evaluation order between two expressions. (only specified `seq` in Haskell 2010 section 6.2 [1]. but `seq` don't guarantee the order. [2]) I think it's better to explicitly specify `pseq` as standard way. Already discussed? or out of scope? [1]: https://www.haskell.org/onlinereport/haskell2010/haskellch6.html#x13-1260006.2 [2]: https://www.schoolofhaskell.com/user/snoyberg/general-haskell/advanced/evaluation-order-and-state-tokens Regards, Takenobu ___ Haskell-prime mailing list Haskell-prime@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
Re: Infrastructure & Communication
Hello, First of all, thanks for all your effort in setting this up! On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 5:56 PM, Herbert Valerio Riedel wrote: > > However, since Trac has accumulated quite a bit of old content in its > ticket-tracker over the years, and "Haskell 2020" has been coined a > reboot. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to start over at GitHub, > and consider the Trac instance mostly as a legacy archive of historic > content. > > > GitHub allows for Git-based workflows, and there's prior art related to > language design we could steal ideas from, for instance: > > - https://github.com/fsharp/FSharpLangDesign > - https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs > - https://github.com/golang/proposal > - (any others noteworthy?) > This seems like the pragmatic way forward. And, as you say, there's plenty of evidence from other language communities that it can work effectively. > IMO, GitHub's issue tracker has become flexible enough for our needs and > its integration with Git pull-requests allows to e.g. group together > change proposal description/motivation, discussion, and finaly the delta > to the haskell-report (with inline annotations/reviews) and so on. > (However, I consider GitHub's Wiki-component quite weak. I'm not sure > what to do about that. Maybe keep using Trac's wiki for that?) > I personally have no problem with a Trac wiki. That being said, the Rust model of having an RFC repo seems to have worked really well for them and allows for easy discussion and comments from the community at large. If we choose to go that route I would gladly take the time to gather relevant info from the Trac wiki and organize it similarly to the way the Rust team has. > Does anyone object to using GitHub? > I think it's great. > In case there's no objection, which of the existing language-design > GitHub projects do you consider a good fit for Haskell Prime and > therefore worthy of imitation? > I'm a big fan of the Rust model myself. Thanks again for your effort in getting all this off the ground, Jose ___ Haskell-prime mailing list Haskell-prime@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
Re: Haskell Prime 2020 committee
Hello, On 2016-04-28 at 23:28:11 +0200, wren romano wrote: > On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 5:19 PM, José Manuel Calderón Trilla > wrote: >> There seems to be a minimum of 5 characters for a username, which was >> giving me the “Username doesn't match local naming policy.” error. >> >> I was able to make an account with a longer username, but I am not >> able to edit the wiki. Unsure if it's some sort of anti-spam delay or >> some other issue with permissions. > > The issue I had wasn't about the local naming policy, but a > no-permissions error since I'm not an admin The reason is that Prime's Trac instance has been traditionally locked down to allow only prime members write access, as well as granting temporary permissions to external contributors working on drafting proposals. If anyone is having troubles registering his/her preferred account-name, or if you have already registered an account and need it granted actual write-permissions, please reply to me privately, and I'll make it happen asap! Cheers, HVR ___ Haskell-prime mailing list Haskell-prime@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
Infrastructure & Communication
Hello Fellow Committee Members! Following up on the official announcement, here's a few basic things we should get agreement over before proceeding. First off, I'm hoping we can manage to avoid confusing email-threading in the interest of finding information easier lateron in the email archives. To this end, I'd like to ask you to consider changing the subject of your reply if you realise that the topic discussed is diverging significantly from the one advertised in the Subject-header. I'll start with the following basic topic ## Infrastructure & Communication Obviously, we have *this* public (archived) mailing list "haskell-prime@haskell.org". There's also a (registered) IRC channel "#haskell-prime" on freenode where many of us will probably hang around. In the past, the Prime committee used Trac (currently at https://prime.haskell.org/ ) to organise its work. Trac provides a wiki, source-browser, and a ticket tracker (which is familiar to GHC developers, and e.g. allows easy migration of wiki-content to/from the GHC Wiki). Some time ago, I converted the original Haskell-Report Darcs repositories into a single Git repository (with branches) at GitHub - https://github.com/haskell/haskell-report This repo is setup to be mirrored to - https://git.haskell.org/haskell-report.git which in turn is also accessible from within Trac at - https://prime.haskell.org/browser However, since Trac has accumulated quite a bit of old content in its ticket-tracker over the years, and "Haskell 2020" has been coined a reboot. Maybe it wouldn't be such a bad idea to start over at GitHub, and consider the Trac instance mostly as a legacy archive of historic content. GitHub allows for Git-based workflows, and there's prior art related to language design we could steal ideas from, for instance: - https://github.com/fsharp/FSharpLangDesign - https://github.com/rust-lang/rfcs - https://github.com/golang/proposal - (any others noteworthy?) IMO, GitHub's issue tracker has become flexible enough for our needs and its integration with Git pull-requests allows to e.g. group together change proposal description/motivation, discussion, and finaly the delta to the haskell-report (with inline annotations/reviews) and so on. (However, I consider GitHub's Wiki-component quite weak. I'm not sure what to do about that. Maybe keep using Trac's wiki for that?) Moreover, we can have CI (I've actually set up a TravisCI job which builds the LaTeX code) for the Haskell Language report drafts. One benefit I see from using GitHub is that this way would we be closer to the Haskell community (given the majority of Hackage packages are hosted on GitHub), and our work would be more transparent for the community as well as offering a lower barrier to participation/contribution. Moreover, I think GitHub would also help make our efforts/progress towards a revised Haskell Report more visible to the community, which in turn may even provide us the motivation to carry on... So... Does anyone object to using GitHub? In case there's no objection, which of the existing language-design GitHub projects do you consider a good fit for Haskell Prime and therefore worthy of imitation? Any other comments/suggestions? Cheers, HVR pgpmKJtfNsHa9.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Haskell-prime mailing list Haskell-prime@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
Re: Haskell Prime 2020 committee
On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 5:19 PM, José Manuel Calderón Trilla wrote: > There seems to be a minimum of 5 characters for a username, which was > giving me the “Username doesn't match local naming policy.” error. > > I was able to make an account with a longer username, but I am not > able to edit the wiki. Unsure if it's some sort of anti-spam delay or > some other issue with permissions. The issue I had wasn't about the local naming policy, but a no-permissions error since I'm not an admin -- Live well, ~wren ___ Haskell-prime mailing list Haskell-prime@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
Re: Haskell Prime 2020 committee
There seems to be a minimum of 5 characters for a username, which was giving me the “Username doesn't match local naming policy.” error. I was able to make an account with a longer username, but I am not able to edit the wiki. Unsure if it's some sort of anti-spam delay or some other issue with permissions. -Jose On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 5:13 PM, wren romano wrote: > On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 2:24 PM, Antonio Nikishaev wrote: >>> On 28 Apr 2016, at 21:45, Richard Eisenberg wrote: >>> Seems reasonable. I have started the page at >>> https://wiki.haskell.org/Language/HaskellPrime >> >> Should it be under prime.haskell.org instead? >> >> (I don't seem to be able to register there though, “Username doesn't match >> local naming policy.”) > > The idea seems reasonable, but I also can't set up an account on the wiki... > > > -- > Live well, > ~wren > ___ > Haskell-prime mailing list > Haskell-prime@haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime ___ Haskell-prime mailing list Haskell-prime@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
Re: Haskell Prime 2020 committee
On Thu, Apr 28, 2016 at 2:24 PM, Antonio Nikishaev wrote: >> On 28 Apr 2016, at 21:45, Richard Eisenberg wrote: >> Seems reasonable. I have started the page at >> https://wiki.haskell.org/Language/HaskellPrime > > Should it be under prime.haskell.org instead? > > (I don't seem to be able to register there though, “Username doesn't match > local naming policy.”) The idea seems reasonable, but I also can't set up an account on the wiki... -- Live well, ~wren ___ Haskell-prime mailing list Haskell-prime@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
Re: Haskell Prime 2020 committee
Should it be under prime.haskell.org instead? (I don't seem to be able to register there though, “Username doesn't match local naming policy.”) -- lelf > On 28 Apr 2016, at 21:45, Richard Eisenberg wrote: > > Seems reasonable. I have started the page at > https://wiki.haskell.org/Language/HaskellPrime > > Richard > > On Apr 28, 2016, at 12:52 PM, Howard B. Golden > wrote: > >> I request that the committee members create a Haskell Prime page on the >> Haskell wiki with capsule descriptions of their affiliations, Haskell >> experience and links to their home pages. I believe this will help make the >> process more transparent to the community. Thanks. >> >> Howard >> ___ >> Haskell-prime mailing list >> Haskell-prime@haskell.org >> http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime > > ___ > Haskell-prime mailing list > Haskell-prime@haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime -- lelf ___ Haskell-prime mailing list Haskell-prime@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
Re: Haskell Prime 2020 committee
Seems reasonable. I have started the page at https://wiki.haskell.org/Language/HaskellPrime Richard On Apr 28, 2016, at 12:52 PM, Howard B. Golden wrote: > I request that the committee members create a Haskell Prime page on the > Haskell wiki with capsule descriptions of their affiliations, Haskell > experience and links to their home pages. I believe this will help make the > process more transparent to the community. Thanks. > > Howard > ___ > Haskell-prime mailing list > Haskell-prime@haskell.org > http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime ___ Haskell-prime mailing list Haskell-prime@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
Haskell Prime 2020 committee
I request that the committee members create a Haskell Prime page on the Haskell wiki with capsule descriptions of their affiliations, Haskell experience and links to their home pages. I believe this will help make the process more transparent to the community. Thanks. Howard ___ Haskell-prime mailing list Haskell-prime@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
ANN: Haskell Prime 2020 committee has formed
Dear Haskell Community! Some time ago I asked for nominations to reboot the Haskell Prime process[1], and now I'm pleased to finally announce the formation of the new Haskell Language 2020 Committee! The goal of the Haskell Language committee together with the Core Libraries Committee is to work towards a new Haskell 2020 Language Report. I'd like to remind everyone that the Haskell Prime Process[4] relies on *everyone* in the community to help by contributing proposals which the committee will then evaluate and if suitable help formalise for inclusion. Everyone interested in participating is also invited to join the haskell-prime mailing list. Four years (or rather ~3.5 years) from now may seem like a long time. However, given the magnitude of the task at hand, to discuss, formalise, and implement proposed extensions (taking into account the recently enacted three-release-policy[3]) to the Haskell Report, the process shouldn't be rushed. Consequently, this may even turn out to be a tight schedule after all. However, it's not excluded there may be an interim revision of the Haskell Report before 2020. Based on this schedule, GHC 8.8 (likely to be released early 2020) would be the first GHC release to feature Haskell 2020 compliance. Prior GHC releases may be able to provide varying degree of conformance to drafts of the upcoming Haskell 2020 Report. The Haskell Language 2020 committee starts out with 20 members which contribute a diversified skill-set. These initial members also represent the Haskell community from the perspective of practitioners, implementers, educators, and researchers. - Andres Löh - Antonio Nikishaev - Austin Seipp - Carlos Camarao de Figueiredo - Carter Schonwald - David Luposchainsky - Henk-Jan van Tuyl - Henrik Nilsson - Herbert Valerio Riedel - Iavor Diatchki - John Wiegley - José Manuel Calderón Trilla - Jurriaan Hage - Lennart Augustsson - M Farkas-Dyck - Mario Blažević - Nicolas Wu - Richard Eisenberg - Vitaly Bragilevsky - Wren Romano The Haskell 2020 committee is a language committee; it will focus its efforts on specifying the Haskell language itself. Responsibility for the libraries laid out in the Report is left to the Core Libraries Committee (CLC)[5]. Incidentally, the CLC still has an available seat[2]; if you would like to contribute to the Haskell 2020 Core Libraries you are encouraged to apply for this opening. As this is a general announcement broadcasted to multiple mailing lists, a separate email discussing the next steps of the new committee will be sent to the haskell-prime mailing list shortly. [1]: https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-prime/2015-September/003936.html [2]: https://mail.haskell.org/pipermail/libraries/2015-November/026497.html [3]: https://prime.haskell.org/wiki/Libraries/3-Release-Policy [4]: https://prime.haskell.org/wiki/Process [5]: https://prime.haskell.org/wiki/Libraries -- hvr pgpVGVdSaL5ZX.pgp Description: PGP signature ___ Haskell-prime mailing list Haskell-prime@haskell.org http://mail.haskell.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/haskell-prime
