Re: [Heb-NACO] To heb-naco & Joan B. re.: Upcoming Changes to LCSH Subject Editorial Meetings

[Cliff Miller via Heb-naco]

Warm wishes
For much happiness and good health upon your retirement.
Thank you for all you have done for us.

Rabbi Clifford B Miller, MLS, DD   Home: [201] 988-0575
From: Heb-naco  On Behalf Of 
Kohn, Roger S via Heb-naco
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2024 3:51 PM
To: heb-n...@lists.service.ohio-state.edu; jbiella2...@gmail.com
Subject: [Heb-NACO] To heb-naco & Joan B. re.: Upcoming Changes to LCSH Subject 
Editorial Meetings


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--- From another list. My apologies for duplication. I take this opportunity to 
let you know that I will be retiring from The Library of Congress at the end of 
June 2024. It has been my pleasure and honor to provide you with the Tentative 
Lists. 
---

>From another list. My apologies for duplication.

I take this opportunity to let you know that I will be retiring from The 
Library of Congress at the end of June 2024.

It has been my pleasure and honor to provide you with the Tentative Lists.

Please let my supervisor, Aaron Taub, if you are interested in providing this 
service after June. You don’t need to work at LC to access these tentative 
lists ...

All the best,

.-r.

Roger Kohn
Library of Congress
LCSG/DPS/ABA/ASME/IJ
101 Independence Avenue, SE
Washington, DC 20540-4384



From: SACO Cataloging Discussion List 
mailto:sacol...@listserv.loc.gov>> On Behalf Of 
Cataloging Policy and Standards
Sent: Monday, June 3, 2024 3:25 PM
To: sacol...@listserv.loc.gov
Subject: [SACOLIST] Upcoming Changes to LCSH Subject Editorial Meetings

Dear SACO list readers,

As outlined in the following announcement, the Policy, Training, and 
Cooperative Programs Division will be making some changes to the frequency and 
focus of the LC Subject Editorial meetings: 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.loc.gov/aba/cataloging/subject/meetings-change.pdf__;!!KGKeukY!wI9o_ffZWrF92aMbgMz2qM-IE7Ga57ebQ6XRcFEHBX-D2KPLP4D2qaSyNZVUPHEl2-c3iY52g4T3tf0iAxrESRU$
 


After the June 2024 editorial meeting, the meetings will switch from monthly to 
quarterly and may include topics beyond list proposals. The first of these 
quarterly meetings will take place on September 20, 2024. The tentative and 
approved subject lists will continue to be issued as monthly lists. The “LC 
Subject Editorial Meetings Description and Calendar for 2024” is in the process 
of being updated to reflect the change: 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.loc.gov/aba/cataloging/subject/LCSH-Editorial-Meetings-2024.pdf__;!!KGKeukY!wI9o_ffZWrF92aMbgMz2qM-IE7Ga57ebQ6XRcFEHBX-D2KPLP4D2qaSyNZVUPHEl2-c3iY52g4T3tf0icGiwI5c$
 


The announcement has been posted on the Library’s Cataloging and Acquisitions 
website: 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.loc.gov/aba/__;!!KGKeukY!wI9o_ffZWrF92aMbgMz2qM-IE7Ga57ebQ6XRcFEHBX-D2KPLP4D2qaSyNZVUPHEl2-c3iY52g4T3tf0iSoIXYqQ$
 


Best wishes,

==
Policy, Training, and Cooperative Programs Division
Acquisitions and Bibliographic Access Directorate
Library of Congress

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Re: [Heb-NACO] Yiddish romanization question

[Cliff Miller via Heb-naco]

Does the presence of the second vowel kamets not affect the romanization?
Clifford Miller

From: Heb-naco  On Behalf Of 
Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 6:36 PM
To: Barry Dov Walfish ; Hebrew Name Authority 
Funnel 
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Yiddish romanization question


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Yes, samekh and sin (and sof) are always distinguished. From: Heb-naco 
 On Behalf Of Barry Dov Walfish via Heb-naco 
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 4: 51 PM To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel 
;
Yes, samekh and sin (and sof) are always distinguished.

From: Heb-naco 
mailto:heb-naco-boun...@lists.osu.edu>> On 
Behalf Of Barry Dov Walfish via Heb-naco
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 4:51 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel 
mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>>; Heidi G Lerner 
mailto:ler...@stanford.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Yiddish romanization question

It’s in Weinreich also as khosn. So no differentiation between samekh and sin? 
On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 4: 34 PM Heidi G Lerner via Heb-naco  wrote: Hi Caroline My thought is that based on our current of HCM, I 
would
It’s in Weinreich also as khosn.
So no differentiation between samekh and sin?

On Wed, Sep 27, 2023 at 4:34 PM Heidi G Lerner via Heb-naco 
mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>> wrote:
Hi Caroline My thought is that based on our current of HCM, I would romanize it 
as "Aḥosn" "Use Weinreich and Niborski as guides for romanization of vowels 
and most consonants. However, differentiate between כ/ח and תּ/ט, כּ/ק
Hi Caroline

My thought is that based on our current of HCM, I would romanize it as "Aḥosn"


"Use Weinreich and Niborski as guides for romanization of vowels and most 
consonants. However, differentiate between כ/ח and תּ/ט, כּ/ק with the 
underscore dots and transcribe final ה with an “h.” When Weinreich offers a 
choice of romanizations, the first is adopted. If a Hebrew two-word expression 
is written as two words in a Yiddish context, this spacing is imitated in the 
romanization. Hebrew Script Weinreich Niborski ALA-LC Romanization טוב יום 
YONTEV/YONTEF יאָנטעװ yon ṭev Kiper Yin יאָנקיפּער/יאָמקיפּער YONKIPER/YINKIPER 
יום כיפור הסופר עזרא -- -- Ezra ha-Soyfer.

I could not locate "חתן" in Weinrich so I went to Niborski.

Just my thoughts.

best, Heidi



From: Heb-naco 
mailto:heb-naco-boun...@lists.osu.edu>> on 
behalf of Miller, Caroline via Heb-naco 
mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>>
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 9:36 AM
To: HEB-NACO List Posting 
(heb-n...@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu) 
mailto:heb-n...@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu>>
Subject: [Heb-NACO] Yiddish romanization question

All, I have a Yiddish literary work published in Vilna in 1897. The first word 
in the title is אחתן with patah under א, kamats under both ח and ת. The copy I 
see for a later edition romanizes it as “Aḥos̀n” but I don’t know how the 
nikud appeared

All,



I have a Yiddish literary work published in Vilna in 1897.  The first word in 
the title is אחתן  with patah under א, kamats under both ח and ת.



The copy I see for a later edition romanizes it as “Aḥos̀n” but I don’t know 
how the nikud appeared on that piece.  Wouldn’t my piece be romanized 
“Aḥos̀on?” because of the two successively appearing kamatsim?



Wishing you all a happy Sukkot!



Caroline



Caroline R. Miller

Team Leader, Discovery Team

UCLA Library Resource Acquisitions and Metadata Services

2400 Life Sciences Building

621 Charles E Young Drive 
South

Box 957230

Los Angeles, CA  90095-7230


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Re: [Heb-NACO] [EXT] - romanization: שם ועבר

[Cliff Miller via Heb-naco]

Marlene,
The two names do not appear as a pair in the Bible, as they do in Talmud and 
Midrash (which have no sacred vocalization)
The name Ever does appear with the conjunctive vav in First Chronicles 5.13, 
vocalized with a kamets, just as you surmised.
Shanah tovah u-metukah,
Clifford Miller

From: Heb-naco  On Behalf Of Marlene Schiffman 
via Heb-naco
Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2023 3:32 PM
To: Shinohara, Jasmin ; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel 

Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] [EXT] - romanization: שם ועבר


CAUTION: This email originated from outside JTSA. Do not click links or open 
attachments unless you recognize the sender and know the content is safe.
Hi Jasmin, Quick question: Shem ve-Ever? Shem va-Ever? I found 2 records on LC 
that have it both ways—naturally! Does it follow the pattern of Yom va-lailah? 
Thanks, חג שמח MRS Marlene Schiffman Metadata and Services Department Gottesman 
Library
Hi Jasmin,
Quick question: Shem ve-Ever?
Shem va-Ever?
I found 2 records on LC that have it both ways—naturally!
Does it follow the pattern of Yom va-lailah?
Thanks, חג שמח
MRS

Marlene Schiffman
Metadata and Services Department
Gottesman Library
Yeshiva University
500 West 185th Street
New York, N.Y. 10033

Gottesman Library
Room 301
646 592 4276

From: Heb-naco 
mailto:heb-naco-bounces+schiffma=yu@lists.osu.edu>>
 On Behalf Of Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco
Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2023 8:17 PM
To: heb-naco@lists.osu.edu
Subject: [EXT] - [Heb-NACO] romanization: בין יציבות למהפכה

**External Email**
Hello, friends, and shanah ṭovah! The above title, on 1289500403, is correctly 
romanized Ben yatsivut le-mahpekhah : ʻaśor la-Aviv ha-ʻArvi (instead of the 
current Ben yetsivut la-mahapekhah : ʻaśor le-Aviv ha-ʻAravi). Fixed fields 
and other
Hello, friends, and shanah ṭovah!

The above title, on 1289500403, is correctly romanized Ben yatsivut 
le-mahpekhah : ʻaśor la-Aviv ha-ʻArvi (instead of the current Ben yetsivut 
la-mahapekhah : ʻaśor le-Aviv ha-ʻAravi). Fixed fields and other fields were 
corrected/added.

For the 16 libraries with holdings on the title, you may wish to update your 
local records.

Please let me know if there are any questions.

(All three words, יציבות, מהפכה, ערבי, are in the romanization FAQ. LC was 
notified separately)

Thanks, Jasmin

---
J a s m i n  S h i n o h a r a
Hebraica Cataloging Librarian
[Penn Libraries 
logo]

PCC Funnels Coordinator:
Hebraica BIBCO & NACO | Judaica SACO
215-746-6397 | jsh...@upenn.edu

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Re: [Heb-NACO] Romanisation of בביזנטיון

[Cliff Miller via Heb-naco]

Did I overlook an obvious answer?
I do not recall seeing anyone who suggested
Bi-Vene Verak
Ki-Vene Verak
Li-Vene Verak
Mi-Bene Verak

Shouldn’t this be the accepted form?

Rabbi Clifford B Miller, MLS, DD   Home: [973] 228-3139
Library of the Jewish Theological Seminary
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Re: [Heb-NACO] Date Status (DtSt) and Dates in the fixed field

[Cliff Miller via Heb-naco]

Dear Colleagues,
I'm working remotely so I cannot check any references at my Seminary Library 
desk.
As I recall the single date "s" is to be used when the date is certain or 
probable.
5783 might be any of 9 months of 2023 or any of 3 months of 2022.
When the odds are 3 to 1 of the later date, I think we are justified in using 
the later date and not both years as questionable.
Is not 9 months out of 12 a high probability?
Thank you.
Clifford Miller, speaking for myself and not for
Library of the Jewish Theological Seminary

From: Heb-naco  On Behalf Of 
Gottschalk, Haim via Heb-naco
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 5:25 PM
To: Miller, Caroline ; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel 

Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] Date Status (DtSt) and Dates in the fixed field


CAUTION: This email originated from outside JTSA. Do not click links or open 
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Hi Caroline, Haim here. What I do is use the first date as THE date with the 
DtSt: s. Granted we don't know fully if the date is 2012 or 2013, but this is 
the practice we do. The questionable date is when there is no date whatsoever in
Hi Caroline,

Haim here.

What I do is use the first date as THE date with the DtSt: s. Granted we don't 
know fully if the date is 2012 or 2013, but this is the practice we do. The 
questionable date is when there is no date whatsoever in the book and we have 
to surmise when it was published. I do use a detailed date (DtSt: e) when I 
have the month available, such as erev Rosh Hodesh Nisan, plus year.

I hope that this helps

Haim
Expressing my views. Ideas & opinions in this email are not intended to 
represent those of the Library of Congress or its staff.

From: Heb-naco 
mailto:heb-naco-boun...@lists.osu.edu>> On 
Behalf Of Miller, Caroline via Heb-naco
Sent: Monday, November 14, 2022 4:49 PM
To: HEB-NACO List Posting 
(heb-n...@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu) 
mailto:heb-n...@lists.acs.ohio-state.edu>>
Subject: [Heb-NACO] Date Status (DtSt) and Dates in the fixed field

All, This may sound like a newbie question but I have never seen an official 
policy on coding the date status for materials that only have a Hebrew date. 
It's clear in RDA and the PS's how to transcribe the date in the 264. Example
All,

This may sound like a newbie question but I have never seen an official policy 
on coding the date status for materials that only have a Hebrew date.  It's 
clear in RDA and the PS's how to transcribe the date in the 264.   Example from 
the book I'm cataloging:

673 [1912 or 1913]

I have seen this coded in the fixed field as:

DtSt: s  Dates 1912 ,

DtSt: q  Dates 1912 ,   1913

Is there an official policy on MARC coding for these fixed fields?  I've done a 
little hunting on Heb-NACO and couldn't find any official guidance.

Thanks.

Caroline

Caroline R. Miller
Team Leader, Discovery Team
UCLA Library Resource Acquisitions and Metadata Services
2400 Life Sciences Building
621 Charles E Young Drive South
Box 957230
Los Angeles, CA  90095-7230



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Re: [Heb-NACO] ease of cataloging Hebrew records into ALEPH

[Cliff Miller via Heb-naco]

At the Library of the Jewish Theological Seminary, I have been working in Aleph 
for decades.
Whenever possible, I work in OCLC and then load the completed record into Aleph.

Hope you are all staying safe from Covid, cyclone, flooding, earthquake, 
hurricane, tornado, wildfire, etc.
Be well,
Clifford Miller

From: Heb-naco  On Behalf Of Frau-Cortes, Neil 
via Heb-naco
Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 2021 8:17 AM
To: 'Heidi G Lerner' ; 'Hebrew Name Authority Funnel' 

Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] ease of cataloging Hebrew records into ALEPH

Hi Heidi,

Currently I work on OCLC and export to Sirsi, but when I was at UMD we had 
Aleph. I think Aleph manages Hebrew better than Sirsi but I would never catalog 
Hebrew records into it. It feels clunky and hard to read, starting by the fact 
that the parallel fields do not appear in parallel but divided by alphabet. To 
make things more complicated, Aleph feels like a dark box: it is easy to send 
things to it from Connexion, but exporting from Aleph, like producing reports, 
is a nightmare.

Hope you are doing well.

Best,


Neil

From: Heb-naco 
mailto:heb-naco-bounces+nfraucortes=broward@lists.osu.edu>>
 On Behalf Of Heidi G Lerner via Heb-naco
Sent: Monday, October 25, 2021 6:53 PM
To: heb-naco@lists.osu.edu
Subject: [Heb-NACO] ease of cataloging Hebrew records into ALEPH

External Email Warning:  This email originated from outside the Broward County 
email system. Do not reply, click links, or open attachments unless you 
recognize the sender’s email address (not just the name) as legitimate and know 
the content is safe.  Report any suspicious emails to 
etssecur...@broward.org.

Hi there,

The only systems that I have cataloged directly into are RLIN and OClC, then 
exporting records into our local system SIRSI. SIRSI was woefully inadequate 
for editing or cataloging Hebrew records directly into it.

For those of you who are currently using ALEPH as your local system, could you 
please let me know if you do the majority of our cataloging directly int ALEPH 
or into OCLC (and then export).

Thanks, Heidi


Heidi G. Lerner

Metadata Librarian for Hebraica and Judaica Emerita, Stanford University 
Libraries





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Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

[Cliff Miller via Heb-naco]

Dear colleagues,
I do not have references resources at home to check this. Do I remember 
correctly?

Hebrew and Gregorian years overlap each other by 9 months. The minority is 3 
months.
Odds are 3 : 1 that the years with matching final digits are the correct year.
Hebrew and Gregorian dates overlap each other by roughly 18 hours, depending on 
time and location.
The doubtful time is only some 6 halakhic hours, give or take. Again odds are 
3:1 for the majority date.

If I remember correctly, rules and regulations tell us to take the most likely 
date as the date.
The most likely date in the month and the most likely year are overwhelmingly 
the overlap.
Is it not strictly following the rules if we cite that date as most probable?

Thank you and best wishes.
Rabbi Clifford Miller
Library of the Jewish Theological Seminary

From: Heb-naco  On Behalf Of Galron, Joseph via 
Heb-naco
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 11:51 PM
To: Shinohara, Jasmin ; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel 

Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

I encountered this issue for my Lexicon as well for entering dates in Wikidata 
(and encyclopedic entries in the Hebrew Wikipedia).
My opinion is that we should put the later date and only in cases we know the 
two dates then to prefer the Hebrew date. Our life is complicated enough. We 
have a tool to convert Hebrew calendar to the Gregorian calendar and 
vis-a-versa 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.hebcal.com/converter__;!!KGKeukY!lXeK1mej0BmUlErVY4cdTC6FriADbEX6J8HjO08nVWdtvT68s6frCyVu5rojCAWKMFGT$
 
Is it really critical to know if someone was born in the evening before sunset 
or after sunset? (the only case for us will be if someone was born/died on 
December 31, 1969 or January 1, 1970 – this changes the heading in the 100 
field).
I have so many stories I encountered while doing my biographical research for 
“my authors” where the Hebrew date is totally different then the Gregorian date 
on tombstones, in encyclopedias (Tidhar for example), Lexicons (Kressel and 
others). I saw letters by people who wrote that their Zeide told them they were 
born on Erev Shabbes of Hanukka, of תר"ע  1910 (Erev Shabbes of Hanukka was 
December 1909 and not 1910)
Remember – we have a backlog of Sforim we need to catalog – not too much time 
to spend on the issue if someone was born or died before or after sunset.

At this opportunity I invite you to view my working document in which I record 
the biographical information
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IPXgRBQE689SB8GpXKHjmSIlNP50n7hAJQEHaoVt8U4/edit?usp=sharing__;!!KGKeukY!lXeK1mej0BmUlErVY4cdTC6FriADbEX6J8HjO08nVWdtvT68s6frCyVu5rojCJYXeBe4$
 

My two Groschen to the issue

Yossi


יוסי גלרון-גולדשלגר
טלפון נייד 1.614.805.9954
Йозеф Галрон Гольдшлегер
Joseph (Yossi) Galron-Goldschläger
Head, Hebraica & Jewish Studies 
Library
and German Language and Literature Librarian
305 G Thompson Memorial Library
The Ohio State University Libraries
1858 Neil Ave. Mall
Columbus, Ohio 43210 USA
Tel.: (614) 292-3362, Fax: (614)292-1918
Mobile: (614) 805-9954
E-Mail: galro...@osu.edu or 
jgal...@gmail.com

Lexicon of Modern Hebrew Literature:
http://go.osu.edu/hebrewlit

Union List of Digitized Jewish Historic Newspapers and Periodicals
http://go.osu.edu/jpress




From: Heb-naco On Behalf Of Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 5:32 PM
To: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel 
mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>>
Subject: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

Hi, folks, I hope this email finds you all well.

I recently had the opportunity to get some guidance on how to code dates in the 
authority 046 when the date/s available is/are only using the Hebrew calendar. 
This was my question:

“Hebrew dates span two calendar days and, as such, two Gregorian dates. Till 
now, the majority of catalogers have made an assumption that the Hebrew date is 
the latter of the two Gregorian dates and only coded that date in the 046 
(indicating certainty). The question is, is such practice ok/correct? Or should 
catalogers be erring on the side of caution and coding the 046 date as 
uncertain, e.g. [2012-07-31, 2012-08-01], unless a Gregorian date is also given 
to confirm the 

Re: [Heb-NACO] Updated HCM-RDA

[Cliff Miller via Heb-naco]

Revered co-celebrants,
Is the established, approved, accepted greeting for this semi-festive Shushan 
Purim Katan outside Jerusalem:

mi-she-nikhnas Adar rishon marbin KETSAT be-simhah
or
mishe-nikhnas Adar Rishon marbin bi-KETSAT simhah?
Thank you.

Shaul ben Devorah u-ven Shimshon ha-mekhuneh Clifford Miller
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