Re: [Heb-NACO] [EXT] - Re: 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

[Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco]

Dear friends,

I’d like to thank you for participating in this discussion. We’ve heard back 
from LC, who after consulting with our colleagues in the IJ section, has 
reconsidered. This is the guidance the IJ section shared:

For a specific day, follow the Gregorian calendar equivalent provided on 
standard date converters such as Heb-Cal. Do not worry about the few hours 
between nightfall and midnight. If the exact hour of the person’s date of birth 
or death is provided and that happens to be before midnight, then the cataloger 
would go with the day before. But we cannot routinely add the “or” construction 
to the day the way we do for the year.

So, while from a NACO and EDTF standpoint it is possible to record the 
uncertainty presented by Hebrew dates (and this is NLI practice), from an 
LC/PCC standpoint, it is not required to so. In other words, feel free to 
continue with your current practice.

Happy cataloging, Jasmin

From: Ahava Cohen 
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 1:38 AM
To: Shinohara, Jasmin ; 'Hebrew Name Authority Funnel' 
; Marlene Schiffman ; 
rtalb...@library.berkeley.edu
Subject: RE: [Heb-NACO] [EXT] - Re: 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

Yossi cited our old work practice of 5000 and adding 1240, so I thought I'd 
chime in with NLI's current policy within our authority database – like the 
recommendation which started this thread, if all we have is a Hebrew date we do 
code the two possible dates in 046. It takes an extra few seconds and we prefer 
to preserve the information at hand, having had people of the same name with 
birthdates within the same month.

- Ahava
[cid:image001.jpg@01D73B77.630C5AA0]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nli.org.il/__;!!KGKeukY!kv0pHRgDsDRvfr7Bn3HJPYPH-6A-obqy-BA41Y0A_x_rPJAkT1Wr_ttUtbWUj7DB8zmC$
 >

Dr. Ahava Cohen|Head
Hebrew Catalogue Department
Mobile: +972-54-549-3644
Tel.:  +972-74-733-6231
The National Library of Israel, Jerusalem
ahava.co...@nli.org.il<mailto:ahava.co...@nli.org.il>  |  
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nli.org.il__;!!KGKeukY!kv0pHRgDsDRvfr7Bn3HJPYPH-6A-obqy-BA41Y0A_x_rPJAkT1Wr_ttUtbWUj-9wvaLL$
 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/Pages/default.aspx__;!!KGKeukY!kv0pHRgDsDRvfr7Bn3HJPYPH-6A-obqy-BA41Y0A_x_rPJAkT1Wr_ttUtbWUj4KQEASW$
 >
[cid:image002.png@01D73B77.630C5AA0]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.facebook.com/NationalLibraryIsrael__;!!KGKeukY!kv0pHRgDsDRvfr7Bn3HJPYPH-6A-obqy-BA41Y0A_x_rPJAkT1Wr_ttUtbWUj4gjC9BU$
 >  [cid:image003.png@01D73B77.630C5AA0] 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.youtube.com/user/NLI2010/featured__;!!KGKeukY!kv0pHRgDsDRvfr7Bn3HJPYPH-6A-obqy-BA41Y0A_x_rPJAkT1Wr_ttUtbWUj2N0DHue$
 >   [cid:image004.png@01D73B77.630C5AA0] 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://instagram.com/nli_israel__;!!KGKeukY!kv0pHRgDsDRvfr7Bn3HJPYPH-6A-obqy-BA41Y0A_x_rPJAkT1Wr_ttUtbWUj0mcGkA5$
 >   [cid:image005.png@01D73B77.630C5AA0] 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.flickr.com/photos/64126959@N03/collections/__;!!KGKeukY!kv0pHRgDsDRvfr7Bn3HJPYPH-6A-obqy-BA41Y0A_x_rPJAkT1Wr_ttUtbWUj7UbGU6q$
 >




From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+ahava.cohen=nli.org...@lists.osu.edu] 
On Behalf Of Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 2:06 AM
To: Marlene Schiffman; 
rtalb...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:rtalb...@library.berkeley.edu>
Cc: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] [EXT] - Re: 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

I doubt Paul Frank reads Heb-NACO. I am working on a draft with your responses 
and counter-arguments.

Thanks, Jasmin

From: Marlene Schiffman mailto:schif...@yu.edu>>
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 7:05 PM
To: rtalb...@library.berkeley.edu<mailto:rtalb...@library.berkeley.edu>; 
Shinohara, Jasmin mailto:jsh...@pobox.upenn.edu>>
Cc: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel 
mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>>; Galron, Joseph 
mailto:galro...@osu.edu>>
Subject: RE: [EXT] - Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

Maybe we should send this correspondence to Paul Frank? Does he read Heb-NACO?

Sent from 
Mail<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986__;!!KGKeukY!hx0QYJPGVeB1Jg3zYS6GBwNaCTscsu0IKhBpyWQYCPOEysnigfp0knYfauNJsvY6eIW0$>
 for Windows 10

From: Robert M. TALBOTT<mailto:rtalb...@library.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 8:39 PM
To: Shinohara, Jasmin<mailto:jsh...@pobox.upenn.edu>
Cc: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>; Galron, 
Joseph<mailto:galro...@osu.edu>; Marlene Schiffman<mailto:schif...@yu.edu>
Subject: [EXT] - Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

**External Email**
I was under the impression that rules didn't go into effect until published.

On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 11:58 AM Shinohara, Jasmin 
mailto:jsh...@pobox.upenn.edu>> wrote:
Dear colleagues, I regret that the guidance coming from LC/PCC i

Re: [Heb-NACO] [EXT] - Re: 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

[Robert M. TALBOTT via Heb-naco]

Thank you for the clarification, Jasmin.


On Tue, Apr 27, 2021 at 12:10 PM Shinohara, Jasmin 
wrote:

> Dear friends,
>
>
>
> I’d like to thank you for participating in this discussion. We’ve heard
> back from LC, who after consulting with our colleagues in the IJ section,
> has reconsidered. This is the guidance the IJ section shared:
>
>
>
> For a specific day, follow the Gregorian calendar equivalent provided on
> standard date converters such as Heb-Cal. Do not worry about the few hours
> between nightfall and midnight. If the exact hour of the person’s date of
> birth or death is provided and that happens to be before midnight, then the
> cataloger would go with the day before. But we cannot routinely add the
> “or” construction to the day the way we do for the year.
>
>
>
> So, while from a NACO and EDTF standpoint it is *possible* to record the
> uncertainty presented by Hebrew dates (and this is NLI practice), from an
> LC/PCC standpoint, it is *not required* to so. In other words, feel free
> to continue with your current practice.
>
>
>
> Happy cataloging, Jasmin
>
>
>
> *From:* Ahava Cohen 
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 27, 2021 1:38 AM
> *To:* Shinohara, Jasmin ; 'Hebrew Name Authority
> Funnel' ; Marlene Schiffman ;
> rtalb...@library.berkeley.edu
> *Subject:* RE: [Heb-NACO] [EXT] - Re: 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs
>
>
>
> Yossi cited our old work practice of 5000 and adding 1240, so I thought
> I'd chime in with NLI's current policy within our authority database – like
> the recommendation which started this thread, if all we have is a Hebrew
> date we do code the two possible dates in 046. It takes an extra few
> seconds and we prefer to preserve the information at hand, having had
> people of the same name with birthdates within the same month.
>
>
>
> - Ahava
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nli.org.il/__;!!KGKeukY!mqda0zUh4ltP7NJ7xeufFaiIry9aC0iveKkTGYS2PHeUtgS3wrUI37F1gUR5DGVgA7_T$
>  >
>
>
>
> *Dr. Ahava Cohen  *  |Head
>
> Hebrew Catalogue Department
>
> Mobile: +972-54-549-3644
>
> Tel.:  +972-74-733-6231
>
> The National Library of Israel, Jerusalem
>
> *ahava.co...@nli.org.il   **|*  *www.nli.org.il*
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/Pages/default.aspx__;!!KGKeukY!mqda0zUh4ltP7NJ7xeufFaiIry9aC0iveKkTGYS2PHeUtgS3wrUI37F1gUR5DK-DV8_c$
>  >
>
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.facebook.com/NationalLibraryIsrael__;!!KGKeukY!mqda0zUh4ltP7NJ7xeufFaiIry9aC0iveKkTGYS2PHeUtgS3wrUI37F1gUR5DJOKmrZF$
>  >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.youtube.com/user/NLI2010/featured__;!!KGKeukY!mqda0zUh4ltP7NJ7xeufFaiIry9aC0iveKkTGYS2PHeUtgS3wrUI37F1gUR5DE_CnSLA$
>  >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://instagram.com/nli_israel__;!!KGKeukY!mqda0zUh4ltP7NJ7xeufFaiIry9aC0iveKkTGYS2PHeUtgS3wrUI37F1gUR5DKLC6eBm$
>  >
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.flickr.com/photos/64126959@N03/collections/__;!!KGKeukY!mqda0zUh4ltP7NJ7xeufFaiIry9aC0iveKkTGYS2PHeUtgS3wrUI37F1gUR5DOSKZmdZ$
>  >
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Heb-naco [
> mailto:heb-naco-bounces+ahava.cohen=nli.org...@lists.osu.edu
> ] *On Behalf Of 
> *Shinohara,
> Jasmin via Heb-naco
> *Sent:* Tuesday, April 27, 2021 2:06 AM
> *To:* Marlene Schiffman; rtalb...@library.berkeley.edu
> *Cc:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
> *Subject:* Re: [Heb-NACO] [EXT] - Re: 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs
>
>
>
> I doubt Paul Frank reads Heb-NACO. I am working on a draft with your
> responses and counter-arguments.
>
>
>
> Thanks, Jasmin
>
>
>
> *From:* Marlene Schiffman 
> *Sent:* Monday, April 26, 2021 7:05 PM
> *To:* rtalb...@library.berkeley.edu; Shinohara, Jasmin <
> jsh...@pobox.upenn.edu>
> *Cc:* Hebrew Name Authority Funnel ; Galron,
> Joseph 
> *Subject:* RE: [EXT] - Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs
>
>
>
> Maybe we should send this correspondence to Paul Frank? Does he read
> Heb-NACO?
>
>
>
> Sent from Mail
> <https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986__;!!KGKeukY!hx0QYJPGVeB1Jg3zYS6GBwNaCTscsu0IKhBpyWQYCPOEysnigfp0knYfauNJsvY6eIW0$>
> for Windows 10
>
>
>
> *From: *Robert M. TALBOTT 
> *Sent: *Friday, April 23, 2021 8:39 PM
> *To: *Shinohara, Jasmin 
> *Cc: *Hebrew Name Authority Funnel ; Galron,
> Joseph ; Marlene Schiffman 
> *Subject: *[EXT] - Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs
>
>
>
> ***External Email***
>
> I was under the impression that rules didn't go into effect until
> published.
>
>
>
> On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 11:58 AM Shinohara, J

Re: [Heb-NACO] [EXT] - Re: 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

[Ahava Cohen via Heb-naco]

Yossi cited our old work practice of 5000 and adding 1240, so I thought I'd 
chime in with NLI's current policy within our authority database – like the 
recommendation which started this thread, if all we have is a Hebrew date we do 
code the two possible dates in 046. It takes an extra few seconds and we prefer 
to preserve the information at hand, having had people of the same name with 
birthdates within the same month.

- Ahava
[cid:image001.jpg@01D73B40.A0AB3700]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nli.org.il/__;!!KGKeukY!n7dlq-aWqm9ZhidsiO2Ga-yvoIMGO-DRXFiaHdvHcz5qLSrFi1IQM31RIHH07E346c5y$
 >


Dr. Ahava Cohen|Head

Hebrew Catalogue Department

Mobile: +972-54-549-3644
Tel.:  +972-74-733-6231

The National Library of Israel, Jerusalem

ahava.co...@nli.org.il<mailto:ahava.co...@nli.org.il>  |  
https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.nli.org.il__;!!KGKeukY!n7dlq-aWqm9ZhidsiO2Ga-yvoIMGO-DRXFiaHdvHcz5qLSrFi1IQM31RIHH07EEkd6Q7$
 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://web.nli.org.il/sites/NLI/English/Pages/default.aspx__;!!KGKeukY!n7dlq-aWqm9ZhidsiO2Ga-yvoIMGO-DRXFiaHdvHcz5qLSrFi1IQM31RIHH07FbcKWHG$
 >

[cid:image002.png@01D73B40.A0AB3700]<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.facebook.com/NationalLibraryIsrael__;!!KGKeukY!n7dlq-aWqm9ZhidsiO2Ga-yvoIMGO-DRXFiaHdvHcz5qLSrFi1IQM31RIHH07E1CDcvB$
 >  [cid:image003.png@01D73B40.A0AB3700] 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.youtube.com/user/NLI2010/featured__;!!KGKeukY!n7dlq-aWqm9ZhidsiO2Ga-yvoIMGO-DRXFiaHdvHcz5qLSrFi1IQM31RIHH07JeSMBYK$
 >   [cid:image004.png@01D73B40.A0AB3700] 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://instagram.com/nli_israel__;!!KGKeukY!n7dlq-aWqm9ZhidsiO2Ga-yvoIMGO-DRXFiaHdvHcz5qLSrFi1IQM31RIHH07ByaOrtc$
 >   [cid:image005.png@01D73B40.A0AB3700] 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__http://www.flickr.com/photos/64126959@N03/collections/__;!!KGKeukY!n7dlq-aWqm9ZhidsiO2Ga-yvoIMGO-DRXFiaHdvHcz5qLSrFi1IQM31RIHH07PbjA8ek$
 >





From: Heb-naco [mailto:heb-naco-bounces+ahava.cohen=nli.org...@lists.osu.edu] 
On Behalf Of Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco
Sent: Tuesday, April 27, 2021 2:06 AM
To: Marlene Schiffman; rtalb...@library.berkeley.edu
Cc: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] [EXT] - Re: 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

I doubt Paul Frank reads Heb-NACO. I am working on a draft with your responses 
and counter-arguments.

Thanks, Jasmin

From: Marlene Schiffman 
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 7:05 PM
To: rtalb...@library.berkeley.edu; Shinohara, Jasmin 
Cc: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel ; Galron, Joseph 

Subject: RE: [EXT] - Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

Maybe we should send this correspondence to Paul Frank? Does he read Heb-NACO?

Sent from 
Mail<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=550986__;!!KGKeukY!hx0QYJPGVeB1Jg3zYS6GBwNaCTscsu0IKhBpyWQYCPOEysnigfp0knYfauNJsvY6eIW0$>
 for Windows 10

From: Robert M. TALBOTT<mailto:rtalb...@library.berkeley.edu>
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 8:39 PM
To: Shinohara, Jasmin<mailto:jsh...@pobox.upenn.edu>
Cc: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel<mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>; Galron, 
Joseph<mailto:galro...@osu.edu>; Marlene Schiffman<mailto:schif...@yu.edu>
Subject: [EXT] - Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

**External Email**
I was under the impression that rules didn't go into effect until published.

On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 11:58 AM Shinohara, Jasmin 
mailto:jsh...@pobox.upenn.edu>> wrote:
Dear colleagues, I regret that the guidance coming from LC/PCC is not more 
popular among you. Nevertheless, our NACO work is bound by LC/PCC policy. As 
such, henceforth, please code Hebrew dates that are not substantiated by 
Gregorian dates as uncertain in NACO records.

Thanks and kol tuv, Jasmin

From: Heb-naco 
mailto:heb-naco-boun...@lists.osu.edu>> On 
Behalf Of Robert M. TALBOTT via Heb-naco
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 9:34 AM
To: Galron, Joseph mailto:galro...@osu.edu>>; Hebrew Name 
Authority Funnel mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

I agree with Yosi. There's no real benefit in ramping up the complexity of the 
046 to cover the possibility that someone was born before sunset.

Bob

On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 8:50 PM Galron, Joseph via Heb-naco 
mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>> wrote:
I encountered this issue for my Lexicon as well for entering dates in Wikidata 
(and encyclopedic entries in the Hebrew Wikipedia).
My opinion is that we should put the later date and only in cases we know the 
two dates then to prefer the Hebrew date. Our life is complicated enough. We 
have a tool to convert Hebrew calendar to the Gregorian calendar and 
vis-a-versa 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.hebcal.com/converter__;!!KGKeukY!n7dlq-aWqm9ZhidsiO2Ga-yvoIMGO-DRXFiaHdvHcz5qLSrFi1IQM31RIHH07OQ9HAd1$
 
<https://urldefense.com/v3/__https:/na

Re: [Heb-NACO] [EXT] - Re: 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

[Shinohara, Jasmin via Heb-naco]

I doubt Paul Frank reads Heb-NACO. I am working on a draft with your responses 
and counter-arguments.

Thanks, Jasmin

From: Marlene Schiffman 
Sent: Monday, April 26, 2021 7:05 PM
To: rtalb...@library.berkeley.edu; Shinohara, Jasmin 
Cc: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel ; Galron, Joseph 

Subject: RE: [EXT] - Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

Maybe we should send this correspondence to Paul Frank? Does he read Heb-NACO?

Sent from 
Mail for Windows 10

From: Robert M. TALBOTT
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 8:39 PM
To: Shinohara, Jasmin
Cc: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel; Galron, 
Joseph; Marlene Schiffman
Subject: [EXT] - Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

**External Email**
I was under the impression that rules didn't go into effect until published.

On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 11:58 AM Shinohara, Jasmin 
mailto:jsh...@pobox.upenn.edu>> wrote:
Dear colleagues, I regret that the guidance coming from LC/PCC is not more 
popular among you. Nevertheless, our NACO work is bound by LC/PCC policy. As 
such, henceforth, please code Hebrew dates that are not substantiated by 
Gregorian dates as uncertain in NACO records.

Thanks and kol tuv, Jasmin

From: Heb-naco 
mailto:heb-naco-boun...@lists.osu.edu>> On 
Behalf Of Robert M. TALBOTT via Heb-naco
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 9:34 AM
To: Galron, Joseph mailto:galro...@osu.edu>>; Hebrew Name 
Authority Funnel mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

I agree with Yosi. There's no real benefit in ramping up the complexity of the 
046 to cover the possibility that someone was born before sunset.

Bob

On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 8:50 PM Galron, Joseph via Heb-naco 
mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>> wrote:
I encountered this issue for my Lexicon as well for entering dates in Wikidata 
(and encyclopedic entries in the Hebrew Wikipedia).
My opinion is that we should put the later date and only in cases we know the 
two dates then to prefer the Hebrew date. Our life is complicated enough. We 
have a tool to convert Hebrew calendar to the Gregorian calendar and 
vis-a-versa 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.hebcal.com/converter__;!!KGKeukY!hx0QYJPGVeB1Jg3zYS6GBwNaCTscsu0IKhBpyWQYCPOEysnigfp0knYfauNJso9Gj7eh$
 

Is it really critical to know if someone was born in the evening before sunset 
or after sunset? (the only case for us will be if someone was born/died on 
December 31, 1969 or January 1, 1970 – this changes the heading in the 100 
field).
I have so many stories I encountered while doing my biographical research for 
“my authors” where the Hebrew date is totally different then the Gregorian date 
on tombstones, in encyclopedias (Tidhar for example), Lexicons (Kressel and 
others). I saw letters by people who wrote that their Zeide told them they were 
born on Erev Shabbes of Hanukka, of תר"ע  1910 (Erev Shabbes of Hanukka was 
December 1909 and not 1910)
Remember – we have a backlog of Sforim we need to catalog – not too much time 
to spend on the issue if someone was born or died before or after sunset.

At this opportunity I invite you to view my working document in which I record 
the biographical information
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IPXgRBQE689SB8GpXKHjmSIlNP50n7hAJQEHaoVt8U4/edit?usp=sharing__;!!KGKeukY!hx0QYJPGVeB1Jg3zYS6GBwNaCTscsu0IKhBpyWQYCPOEysnigfp0knYfauNJss0d8qu2$
 

Re: [Heb-NACO] [EXT] - Re: 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

[Marlene Schiffman via Heb-naco]

Maybe we should send this correspondence to Paul Frank? Does he read Heb-NACO?

Sent from 
Mail for Windows 10

From: Robert M. TALBOTT
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 8:39 PM
To: Shinohara, Jasmin
Cc: Hebrew Name Authority Funnel; Galron, 
Joseph; Marlene Schiffman
Subject: [EXT] - Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

**External Email**
I was under the impression that rules didn't go into effect until published.

On Fri, Apr 23, 2021 at 11:58 AM Shinohara, Jasmin 
mailto:jsh...@pobox.upenn.edu>> wrote:
Dear colleagues, I regret that the guidance coming from LC/PCC is not more 
popular among you. Nevertheless, our NACO work is bound by LC/PCC policy. As 
such, henceforth, please code Hebrew dates that are not substantiated by 
Gregorian dates as uncertain in NACO records.

Thanks and kol tuv, Jasmin

From: Heb-naco 
mailto:heb-naco-boun...@lists.osu.edu>> On 
Behalf Of Robert M. TALBOTT via Heb-naco
Sent: Friday, April 23, 2021 9:34 AM
To: Galron, Joseph mailto:galro...@osu.edu>>; Hebrew Name 
Authority Funnel mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>>
Subject: Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

I agree with Yosi. There's no real benefit in ramping up the complexity of the 
046 to cover the possibility that someone was born before sunset.

Bob

On Thu, Apr 22, 2021 at 8:50 PM Galron, Joseph via Heb-naco 
mailto:heb-naco@lists.osu.edu>> wrote:
I encountered this issue for my Lexicon as well for entering dates in Wikidata 
(and encyclopedic entries in the Hebrew Wikipedia).
My opinion is that we should put the later date and only in cases we know the 
two dates then to prefer the Hebrew date. Our life is complicated enough. We 
have a tool to convert Hebrew calendar to the Gregorian calendar and 
vis-a-versa 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.hebcal.com/converter__;!!KGKeukY!gHSQP2CLF_x_HDhi1-ZfgJfQabh1lp_9WNSL4f63X3x0Co9B5fcuw3qJ5Ov7YQlTVEgt$
 

Is it really critical to know if someone was born in the evening before sunset 
or after sunset? (the only case for us will be if someone was born/died on 
December 31, 1969 or January 1, 1970 – this changes the heading in the 100 
field).
I have so many stories I encountered while doing my biographical research for 
“my authors” where the Hebrew date is totally different then the Gregorian date 
on tombstones, in encyclopedias (Tidhar for example), Lexicons (Kressel and 
others). I saw letters by people who wrote that their Zeide told them they were 
born on Erev Shabbes of Hanukka, of תר"ע  1910 (Erev Shabbes of Hanukka was 
December 1909 and not 1910)
Remember – we have a backlog of Sforim we need to catalog – not too much time 
to spend on the issue if someone was born or died before or after sunset.

At this opportunity I invite you to view my working document in which I record 
the biographical information
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IPXgRBQE689SB8GpXKHjmSIlNP50n7hAJQEHaoVt8U4/edit?usp=sharing__;!!KGKeukY!gHSQP2CLF_x_HDhi1-ZfgJfQabh1lp_9WNSL4f63X3x0Co9B5fcuw3qJ5Ov7YdWeWMyC$
 


My two Groschen to the issue

Yossi


יוסי גלרון-גולדשלגר
טלפון נייד 1.614.805.9954
Йозеф Галрон Гольдшлегер
Joseph (Yossi) 
Galron-Goldschläger

Re: [Heb-NACO] [EXT] - Re: 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

[Marlene Schiffman via Heb-naco]

I agree with Yossi. Yossi, You took the words right out of my mouth.

From: Heb-naco  on behalf of Galron, Joseph via 
Heb-naco 
Sent: Thursday, April 22, 2021 11:50:52 PM
To: Shinohara, Jasmin ; Hebrew Name Authority Funnel 

Subject: [EXT] - Re: [Heb-NACO] 046 Hebrew date coding in NARs

**External Email**

I encountered this issue for my Lexicon as well for entering dates in Wikidata 
(and encyclopedic entries in the Hebrew Wikipedia).

My opinion is that we should put the later date and only in cases we know the 
two dates then to prefer the Hebrew date. Our life is complicated enough. We 
have a tool to convert Hebrew calendar to the Gregorian calendar and 
vis-a-versa 
https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://www.hebcal.com/converter__;!!KGKeukY!iFRm6eankEYTT6HeKl4BM93NTZcofWymcIwOSPgfDA01HgcEXK3MfUwzxP7c_dPOwgl5$
 


Is it really critical to know if someone was born in the evening before sunset 
or after sunset? (the only case for us will be if someone was born/died on 
December 31, 1969 or January 1, 1970 – this changes the heading in the 100 
field).

I have so many stories I encountered while doing my biographical research for 
“my authors” where the Hebrew date is totally different then the Gregorian date 
on tombstones, in encyclopedias (Tidhar for example), Lexicons (Kressel and 
others). I saw letters by people who wrote that their Zeide told them they were 
born on Erev Shabbes of Hanukka, of תר"ע  1910 (Erev Shabbes of Hanukka was 
December 1909 and not 1910)

Remember – we have a backlog of Sforim we need to catalog – not too much time 
to spend on the issue if someone was born or died before or after sunset.



At this opportunity I invite you to view my working document in which I record 
the biographical information

https://urldefense.com/v3/__https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1IPXgRBQE689SB8GpXKHjmSIlNP50n7hAJQEHaoVt8U4/edit?usp=sharing__;!!KGKeukY!iFRm6eankEYTT6HeKl4BM93NTZcofWymcIwOSPgfDA01HgcEXK3MfUwzxP7c_XEhOZX1$
 




My two Groschen to the issue



Yossi





יוסי גלרון-גולדשלגר

טלפון נייד 1.614.805.9954

Йозеф Галрон Гольдшлегер

Joseph (Yossi) 
Galron-Goldschläger
Head, Hebraica & Jewish Studies 
Library
and German Language and Literature Librarian
305 G Thompson Memorial Library
The Ohio State University Libraries
1858 Neil Ave. Mall
Columbus, Ohio 43210 USA
Tel.: (614) 292-3362, Fax: (614)292-1918
Mobile: (614) 805-9954
E-Mail: galro...@osu.edu or 
jgal...@gmail.com

Lexicon of Modern Hebrew L