Setting Page Size and displaying result correctly
Dear Compeers, I have recently mentioned allowing multiline titles in structured commands (e.g. @chapter, @section, @unnumberedsec) Another Texinfo aspect to mention is properly setting the page size using @pagesizes. Firstly, if one uses a smaller pagesize, the resulting pdf simply cuts the page out to the required size. This means that the part of the text, figures, etc ... that is outside the area are cut out. Have used @pagesizes 250mm,176mm I have also noticed that the result is almost correct, showing a pagesize of 250mm,182mm. Perhaps it is also something to look at. Making @pagesizes work would be extremely beneficial for users. Regards Christopher
Re: Setting Page Size and displaying result correctly
On Tue, Oct 06, 2020 at 09:58:32AM +0200, Christopher Dimech wrote: > Dear Compeers, > > I have recently mentioned allowing multiline titles in structured commands > (e.g. @chapter, @section, @unnumberedsec) > > Another Texinfo aspect to mention is properly setting the page size using > @pagesizes. > > Firstly, if one uses a smaller pagesize, the resulting pdf simply cuts the > page out to the required size. This means that the part of the text, figures, > etc ... that is outside the area are cut out. That does not appear to be strictly true, as formatting with a narrow page width does shorten the formatted lines, only that the right-hand margin completely disappears. > Have used @pagesizes 250mm,176mm I have also noticed that the result is almost > correct, showing a pagesize of 250mm,182mm. Perhaps it is also something to > look > at. Note the following excerpt from the manual: >>> Examples: @pagesizes 200mm,150mm and @pagesizes 11.5in This would be reasonable for printing on B5-size paper. To emphasize, this command specifies the size of the _text area_, not the size of the paper (which is 250mm by 177mm for B5, 14in by 8.5in for legal). >>> So the page size that appears in e.g. a PDF reader would not match the arguments exactly. > > Making @pagesizes work would be extremely beneficial for users. I doubt that many people will actually print Texinfo manuals onto paper, but I don't see why it couldn't be fixed for other paper sizes (assuming someone works out how to do it). Are you going to print on paper that is 250x176 mm? Is that B5?
Re: Setting Page Size and displaying result correctly
These are two considerations for Page Sizes as described below. 1. Consistency in applying commands It is true that the manual says that @pagesizes refers to text-area. However, it should be remembered that papersizes such as @afourpaper and @afivepaper always refer to the actual size of the paper. The default margins will then set the text-area. The manual already says that setting of margins is considered an elaboration that should customarily be defined using commands in texinfo.tex. Just as @afourpaper and @afivepaper always refer to to actual page size rather than text-area, other settings for page sizes should ideally follow same rule - User sets the actual page size, and not the size of the text area. 2. Possibilities for using Texinfo for Screencasts, especially screencasts that include the display of mathematical expressions. The difficulty setting a different page size does not crop up for software manuals. But the problem crops up when you want to use a texinfo document for a screen cast. In such an instance, changing the page size would be important, because the standard paper sizes make the text too small for display purposes on the screen. This would enable texinfo to be used in many other circumstances in addition to simply writing manuals. Regards Christopher > Sent: Tuesday, October 06, 2020 at 6:11 PM > From: "Gavin Smith" > To: "Christopher Dimech" > Cc: "help-texinfo gnu" > Subject: Re: Setting Page Size and displaying result correctly > > On Tue, Oct 06, 2020 at 09:58:32AM +0200, Christopher Dimech wrote: > > Dear Compeers, > > > > I have recently mentioned allowing multiline titles in structured commands > > (e.g. @chapter, @section, @unnumberedsec) > > > > Another Texinfo aspect to mention is properly setting the page size using > > @pagesizes. > > > > Firstly, if one uses a smaller pagesize, the resulting pdf simply cuts the > > page out to the required size. This means that the part of the text, > > figures, > > etc ... that is outside the area are cut out. > > That does not appear to be strictly true, as formatting with a narrow > page width does shorten the formatted lines, only that the right-hand > margin completely disappears. > > > Have used @pagesizes 250mm,176mm I have also noticed that the result is > > almost > > correct, showing a pagesize of 250mm,182mm. Perhaps it is also something to > > look > > at. > > Note the following excerpt from the manual: > > >>> > Examples: > > @pagesizes 200mm,150mm > and > @pagesizes 11.5in > >This would be reasonable for printing on B5-size paper. To > emphasize, this command specifies the size of the _text area_, not the > size of the paper (which is 250mm by 177mm for B5, 14in by 8.5in for > legal). > >>> > > So the page size that appears in e.g. a PDF reader would not match > the arguments exactly. > > > > > Making @pagesizes work would be extremely beneficial for users. > > I doubt that many people will actually print Texinfo manuals onto paper, > but I don't see why it couldn't be fixed for other paper sizes (assuming > someone works out how to do it). Are you going to print on paper that is > 250x176 mm? Is that B5? >
Re: Setting Page Size and displaying result correctly
On Tue, Oct 06, 2020 at 07:51:08PM +0200, Christopher Dimech wrote: > These are two considerations for Page Sizes as described below. > > > 1. Consistency in applying commands > > It is true that the manual says that @pagesizes refers to text-area. > However, it should be remembered that papersizes such as @afourpaper > and @afivepaper always refer to the actual size of the paper. The > default margins will then set the text-area. The manual already says > that setting of margins is considered an elaboration that should > customarily be defined using commands in texinfo.tex. It seems to me that the region of the page excluding the margins is a meaningful concept that a user may wish to specify, and thus the existing @pagesizes command may be useful and should be kept with its current behaviour. If it was the case that people needed to specify arbitrary paper sizes then another command could be introduced for this. I don't expect that there would be such a need due to paper usually being produced in a few standard sizes. > Just as @afourpaper and @afivepaper always refer to to actual page > size rather than text-area, other settings for page sizes should ideally > follow same rule - User sets the actual page size, and not the size of > the text area. > > 2. Possibilities for using Texinfo for Screencasts, especially screencasts > that include the display of mathematical expressions. > > The difficulty setting a different page size does not crop up for software > manuals. But the problem crops up when you want to use a texinfo document > for a screen cast. In such an instance, changing the page size would > be important, because the standard paper sizes make the text too small > for display purposes on the screen. I'm not too sure what your use case is for this but perhaps the HTML output would be more appropriate for this? Display of mathematical expressions may be difficult with HTML, but it is supposed to be possible. > This would enable texinfo to be used in many other circumstances in addition > to simply writing manuals. Writing manuals is the main purpose of Texinfo. It is not a general typesetting or formatting system for the display of arbitrary information.
