Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

Btw, it's not à one line array, you also have he Java version. 

So maybe what's missing is a header to make it clearer?

> Le 28 sept. 2017 à 16:33, Guillaume Smet  a écrit :
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:
>> But I see how this can be far fetched, while there are objectinve
>> benefits from having a cleaner table, so feel free to remove it.
> 
> Well not really.
> 
> I personally don't want to maintain specific templates for each project, and 
> I'm pretty sure Yoann doesn't either.
> 
> I don't think it's that annoying to have it. Definitely better than having to 
> maintain special templates or special cases in the template.
> 
> Please, let's keep it simple.
> 
> -- 
> Guillaume
> 
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 4:26 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
wrote:

> But I see how this can be far fetched, while there are objectinve
> benefits from having a cleaner table, so feel free to remove it.
>

Well not really.

I personally don't want to maintain specific templates for each project,
and I'm pretty sure Yoann doesn't either.

I don't think it's that annoying to have it. Definitely better than having
to maintain special templates or special cases in the template.

Please, let's keep it simple.

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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 28 September 2017 at 14:53, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> The question is not about whether to have that information.  The question is
> whether a one row table spanning horizontally across the screen is the best
> presentation for that info.

TBH I don't remember myself which ORM series is JPA 2.2 and which one
is 2.1, I often have to doublecheck.. I just think regular users would
have this need even more often.

But I see how this can be far fetched, while there are objectinve
benefits from having a cleaner table, so feel free to remove it.


> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:01 AM Sanne Grinovero  wrote:
>>
>> On 28 September 2017 at 13:30, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
>> > Do y'all really think it makes sense to have JPA versions in this ORM
>> > "compatibility matrix"?
>>
>> I think it's useful. Try booting a recent ORM version with an out of
>> date JPA api jar: you'll get really weird exceptions and it's hard to
>> figure out what's wrong.
>>
>> https://forum.hibernate.org/viewtopic.php?f=1=1043938
>>
>> Hopefully in future having a single JPA API distribution (in terms of
>> Maven coordinates) would make such issues a thing of the past, but
>> it's going to take a while yet.
>>
>> >
>> > My concern is that it is more involved (as we then try to convey in the
>> > section below that matrix) than a cell in a matrix/table with just a
>> > version number.
>> >
>> > If we end up treating JPA compatibility differently (removing from
>> > table)
>> > then the table is just made up of "Java compatibility", which we can
>> > probably illustrate simpler than a single vertical row of versions.
>> >
>> > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:37 AM Guillaume Smet
>> > 
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Guillaume Smet
>> >> 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>
>> >> > I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they
>> >> > are
>> >> not
>> >> > displayed in the overview.
>> >> >
>> >> > AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page
>> >> > with
>> >> > all the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying
>> >> > the
>> >> > retired series.
>> >> >
>> >>
>> >> Done: I added a See older series button to the Releases / Overview page
>> >> and
>> >> to the Documentation page.
>> >>
>> >> --
>> >> Guillaume
>> >> ___
>> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>> >>
>> > ___
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>> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 3:53 PM, Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> The question is not about whether to have that information.  The question
> is whether a one row table spanning horizontally across the screen is the
> best presentation for that info.
>

Yeah, the example of ORM is not the best one for this table.

Here is how it looks for Search:
http://hibernate.org/search/releases/

Not sure it's worth doing something specific for ORM and maintain another
separate template.

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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Steve Ebersole]

The question is not about whether to have that information.  The question
is whether a one row table spanning horizontally across the screen is the
best presentation for that info.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 8:01 AM Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> On 28 September 2017 at 13:30, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> > Do y'all really think it makes sense to have JPA versions in this ORM
> > "compatibility matrix"?
>
> I think it's useful. Try booting a recent ORM version with an out of
> date JPA api jar: you'll get really weird exceptions and it's hard to
> figure out what's wrong.
>
> https://forum.hibernate.org/viewtopic.php?f=1=1043938
>
> Hopefully in future having a single JPA API distribution (in terms of
> Maven coordinates) would make such issues a thing of the past, but
> it's going to take a while yet.
>
> >
> > My concern is that it is more involved (as we then try to convey in the
> > section below that matrix) than a cell in a matrix/table with just a
> > version number.
> >
> > If we end up treating JPA compatibility differently (removing from table)
> > then the table is just made up of "Java compatibility", which we can
> > probably illustrate simpler than a single vertical row of versions.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:37 AM Guillaume Smet  >
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Guillaume Smet <
> guillaume.s...@gmail.com>
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >> > I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are
> >> not
> >> > displayed in the overview.
> >> >
> >> > AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page
> with
> >> > all the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying
> the
> >> > retired series.
> >> >
> >>
> >> Done: I added a See older series button to the Releases / Overview page
> and
> >> to the Documentation page.
> >>
> >> --
> >> Guillaume
> >> ___
> >> hibernate-dev mailing list
> >> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> >> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> >>
> > ___
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> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 28 September 2017 at 13:30, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> Do y'all really think it makes sense to have JPA versions in this ORM
> "compatibility matrix"?

I think it's useful. Try booting a recent ORM version with an out of
date JPA api jar: you'll get really weird exceptions and it's hard to
figure out what's wrong.

https://forum.hibernate.org/viewtopic.php?f=1=1043938

Hopefully in future having a single JPA API distribution (in terms of
Maven coordinates) would make such issues a thing of the past, but
it's going to take a while yet.

>
> My concern is that it is more involved (as we then try to convey in the
> section below that matrix) than a cell in a matrix/table with just a
> version number.
>
> If we end up treating JPA compatibility differently (removing from table)
> then the table is just made up of "Java compatibility", which we can
> probably illustrate simpler than a single vertical row of versions.
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:37 AM Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Guillaume Smet 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are
>> not
>> > displayed in the overview.
>> >
>> > AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page with
>> > all the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying the
>> > retired series.
>> >
>>
>> Done: I added a See older series button to the Releases / Overview page and
>> to the Documentation page.
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume
>> ___
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
> ___
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

What's in the matrix is up to each project. You can remove content by
editing the .yml file for each series, and removing elements from site.yml
under projects.orm.integrations.
I'd argue that moving away from the matrix for ORM just because Java
compatibility is "not enough" will force us to add a special case just for
ORM, and I'm not particularly interested in doing that. But feel free to do
so, or to remove the compatibility matrix completely for ORM.
I think there could be more in that matrix than just Java though, like the
compatibility with various major RDBMSs, or with some connection pools. But
again, it's your call.


Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 28 September 2017 at 14:30, Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> Do y'all really think it makes sense to have JPA versions in this ORM
> "compatibility matrix"?
>
> My concern is that it is more involved (as we then try to convey in the
> section below that matrix) than a cell in a matrix/table with just a
> version number.
>
> If we end up treating JPA compatibility differently (removing from table)
> then the table is just made up of "Java compatibility", which we can
> probably illustrate simpler than a single vertical row of versions.
>
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:37 AM Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
>
>> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Guillaume Smet > >
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are
>> not
>> > displayed in the overview.
>> >
>> > AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page with
>> > all the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying the
>> > retired series.
>> >
>>
>> Done: I added a See older series button to the Releases / Overview page
>> and
>> to the Documentation page.
>>
>> --
>> Guillaume
>> ___
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>>
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Steve Ebersole]

Do y'all really think it makes sense to have JPA versions in this ORM
"compatibility matrix"?

My concern is that it is more involved (as we then try to convey in the
section below that matrix) than a cell in a matrix/table with just a
version number.

If we end up treating JPA compatibility differently (removing from table)
then the table is just made up of "Java compatibility", which we can
probably illustrate simpler than a single vertical row of versions.

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 6:37 AM Guillaume Smet 
wrote:

> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
>
> > I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are
> not
> > displayed in the overview.
> >
> > AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page with
> > all the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying the
> > retired series.
> >
>
> Done: I added a See older series button to the Releases / Overview page and
> to the Documentation page.
>
> --
> Guillaume
> ___
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:21 AM, Guillaume Smet 
wrote:

> I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are not
> displayed in the overview.
>
> AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page with
> all the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying the
> retired series.
>

Done: I added a See older series button to the Releases / Overview page and
to the Documentation page.

-- 
Guillaume
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 28 September 2017 at 08:21, Guillaume Smet  wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>>
>> >
>> > > As a user, I still need to be able to go to a given series page to
>>
>> > understand what was done (see my initial use case). But they can be in a
>> > > older series section in small vs big boxes.
>> > This is currently missing.
>>
>>
>> NO, it is not missing. At least, the concept is there. The "What's new"
>> section has been here the whole time: http://staging.
>> hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/#whats_new, with a big-ass "What's new"
>> link at the top of the series page.
>> So, yes, it's quite empty for now. You need to add content to the page
>> /yourproject/releases/yourseries/index.adoc. I added content for Search
>> 5.8
>> only for now, and I'll find some time to do the same for other Search
>> series. And yes, there's too much content in this section for Search 5.8,
>> but that's mainly because there's too much content in 5.8 to begin with.
>> But for other projects, surely each project's leader could take a bit of
>> time to do that for his own project, or delegate? Some of us are even
>> asking to remove that "What's new" section because it's too empty... Could
>> we please all realize that content doesn't appear magically?
>
>
> I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are not
> displayed in the overview.
>
> AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page with all
> the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying the retired
> series.

+1 [same as I said above]

>
> --
> Guillaume
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 28, 2017 at 9:00 AM, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:

> >
> > > As a user, I still need to be able to go to a given series page to
>
> > understand what was done (see my initial use case). But they can be in a
> > > older series section in small vs big boxes.
> > This is currently missing.
>
>
> NO, it is not missing. At least, the concept is there. The "What's new"
> section has been here the whole time: http://staging.
> hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/#whats_new, with a big-ass "What's new"
> link at the top of the series page.
> So, yes, it's quite empty for now. You need to add content to the page
> /yourproject/releases/yourseries/index.adoc. I added content for Search
> 5.8
> only for now, and I'll find some time to do the same for other Search
> series. And yes, there's too much content in this section for Search 5.8,
> but that's mainly because there's too much content in 5.8 to begin with.
> But for other projects, surely each project's leader could take a bit of
> time to do that for his own project, or delegate? Some of us are even
> asking to remove that "What's new" section because it's too empty... Could
> we please all realize that content doesn't appear magically?
>

I was talking about the ability to access the old series when they are not
displayed in the overview.

AFAICS, this is definitely missing and we would need either a page with all
the series linked from the overview page or a button displaying the retired
series.

-- 
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Emmanuel Bernard]

> On 28 Sep 2017, at 09:00, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
> 
> And yes, there's too much content in this section for Search 5.8, but that's 
> mainly because there's too much content in 5.8 to begin with.

Ah, finally an objective measurement to force Sanne to release smaller but more 
often :D
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

>
> > As a user, I still need to be able to go to a given series page to

> understand what was done (see my initial use case). But they can be in a
> > older series section in small vs big boxes.
> This is currently missing.


NO, it is not missing. At least, the concept is there. The "What's new"
section has been here the whole time: http://staging.
hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/#whats_new, with a big-ass "What's new"
link at the top of the series page.
So, yes, it's quite empty for now. You need to add content to the page
/yourproject/releases/yourseries/index.adoc. I added content for Search 5.8
only for now, and I'll find some time to do the same for other Search
series. And yes, there's too much content in this section for Search 5.8,
but that's mainly because there's too much content in 5.8 to begin with.
But for other projects, surely each project's leader could take a bit of
time to do that for his own project, or delegate? Some of us are even
asking to remove that "What's new" section because it's too empty... Could
we please all realize that content doesn't appear magically?

Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 27 September 2017 at 22:59, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> On 26 September 2017 at 15:36, Emmanuel Bernard 
> wrote:
> > All I wanted initially was to be able to get a description of what each
> > series provided so that when I jump from my version to the latest, I can
> > see what's going on. Then you guys wanted to expose the matrix of
> > compatibilities as e.g. people do consume Search with a given version of
> > ORM.
> >
> > With that being said, here is what I think are the series with value to
> > users today:
> >
> > * Search: 5.8 (latest), 5.6 (ORM 5.0/5.1), maybe whatever the version in
> >  WF is
> > * Validator: 6.0 (latest), maybe whatever the version in WF is
> > * OGM: 5.2 (dev), 5.1 (stable)
> > * ORM: 5.2, 5.1, maybe the WF version if it's not 5.1
> >
> > As a user, I still need to be able to go to a given series page to
> > understand what was done (see my initial use case). But they can be in a
> > older series section in small vs big boxes.
>
> +1 that's my preference
>
> Nothing to change right now, but we'll need to evolve a bit when we'll
> want to prune the series being shown in the main area right now.
> It starts to get crowded and WF having 5.5 (rather old) I want people
> to be able to find details about it yet not "push" the version.
>
> Say we want to prune 5.7 - not being in your above list - people will
> still want to be able to find it when upgrading from 5.6 -> 5.8
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
>
> >
> > BTW tools has a Downloads link, not Releases.
> >
> > Emmanuel
> >
> >
> > On Fri 17-09-22 17:03, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
> >>
> >> Ok, this will never end... It was good to merge less than 24h ago and
> now
> >> you're arguing against the very point of this work: provide users with
> >> more
> >> information regarding each series, so that they know what's new. (see
> the
> >> first email by Emmanuel)
> >>
> >> Please make concrete, exhaustive proposals. From what I understand, your
> >> concerns could be addressed with only simple changes to the menu (hide
> >> older series, add an "archived series" entry), but I don't know what to
> >> think anymore.
> >>
> >>
> >> Yoann Rodière
> >> Hibernate NoORM Team
> >> yo...@hibernate.org
> >>
> >> On 22 September 2017 at 16:49, Sanne Grinovero 
> >> wrote:
> >>
> >>> After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
> >>> obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
> >>> versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.
> >>>
> >>> We need to encourage people to use the latest versions and we need to
> >>> send a clear, strong message about this, no middle ground fiddling
> >>> with names and definitions
> >>>
> >>> We can give them a choice between using the latest stable vs the
> >>> latest development, but beyond this we're giving too much choice.
> >>>
> >>> Yet I do believe we should make it "not-hard" for people looking for
> >>> details of other recent versions; could we consider them all
> >>> "archived" ? Some drop downs on key areas like the ones in ORM today
> >>> would still be welcome to make it easy to find - but let's remove the
> >>> version choice from the "primary navigation path".
> >>>
> >>> There are some exceptional cases coming to mind which would need some
> >>> mitigation; for example the fact that OGM won't work with the latest
> >>> Search and ORM releases!
> >>> But there are better solutions than to pollute the website experience
> >>> by making the matching versions too visible, for example bundle it
> >>> with OGM, link to the right versions from the OGM pages, or have the
> >>> modules eventually pull-in the required dependencies, etc...
> >>> (technical details irrelevant in this context).
> >>>
> >>> Thanks,
> >>> Sanne
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> >>>
> 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 26 September 2017 at 15:36, Emmanuel Bernard  wrote:
> All I wanted initially was to be able to get a description of what each
> series provided so that when I jump from my version to the latest, I can
> see what's going on. Then you guys wanted to expose the matrix of
> compatibilities as e.g. people do consume Search with a given version of
> ORM.
>
> With that being said, here is what I think are the series with value to
> users today:
>
> * Search: 5.8 (latest), 5.6 (ORM 5.0/5.1), maybe whatever the version in
>  WF is
> * Validator: 6.0 (latest), maybe whatever the version in WF is
> * OGM: 5.2 (dev), 5.1 (stable)
> * ORM: 5.2, 5.1, maybe the WF version if it's not 5.1
>
> As a user, I still need to be able to go to a given series page to
> understand what was done (see my initial use case). But they can be in a
> older series section in small vs big boxes.

+1 that's my preference

Nothing to change right now, but we'll need to evolve a bit when we'll
want to prune the series being shown in the main area right now.
It starts to get crowded and WF having 5.5 (rather old) I want people
to be able to find details about it yet not "push" the version.

Say we want to prune 5.7 - not being in your above list - people will
still want to be able to find it when upgrading from 5.6 -> 5.8

Thanks,
Sanne

>
> BTW tools has a Downloads link, not Releases.
>
> Emmanuel
>
>
> On Fri 17-09-22 17:03, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
>>
>> Ok, this will never end... It was good to merge less than 24h ago and now
>> you're arguing against the very point of this work: provide users with
>> more
>> information regarding each series, so that they know what's new. (see the
>> first email by Emmanuel)
>>
>> Please make concrete, exhaustive proposals. From what I understand, your
>> concerns could be addressed with only simple changes to the menu (hide
>> older series, add an "archived series" entry), but I don't know what to
>> think anymore.
>>
>>
>> Yoann Rodière
>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>> yo...@hibernate.org
>>
>> On 22 September 2017 at 16:49, Sanne Grinovero 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
>>> obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
>>> versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.
>>>
>>> We need to encourage people to use the latest versions and we need to
>>> send a clear, strong message about this, no middle ground fiddling
>>> with names and definitions
>>>
>>> We can give them a choice between using the latest stable vs the
>>> latest development, but beyond this we're giving too much choice.
>>>
>>> Yet I do believe we should make it "not-hard" for people looking for
>>> details of other recent versions; could we consider them all
>>> "archived" ? Some drop downs on key areas like the ones in ORM today
>>> would still be welcome to make it easy to find - but let's remove the
>>> version choice from the "primary navigation path".
>>>
>>> There are some exceptional cases coming to mind which would need some
>>> mitigation; for example the fact that OGM won't work with the latest
>>> Search and ORM releases!
>>> But there are better solutions than to pollute the website experience
>>> by making the matching versions too visible, for example bundle it
>>> with OGM, link to the right versions from the OGM pages, or have the
>>> modules eventually pull-in the required dependencies, etc...
>>> (technical details irrelevant in this context).
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sanne
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> On 22 September 2017 at 12:21, Guillaume Smet 
>>> wrote:
>>> > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
>>> > wrote:
>>> >>
>>> >> *IF* you are willing to improve a minor point: I didn't expect the
>>> >> "Releases" menu to be expanded when not being in any of these
>>> >> sections.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Let's keep that one for another time.
>>> >
>>> >>
>>> >> Related: I wouldn't highlight both the current release and the
>>> >> "Releases" label, the shading looks odd and misaligned.
>>> >
>>> >
>>> > Yoann fixed it.
>>> >
>>> > Could we push that version to production and iterate after if required?
>>> >
>>> > It's a tad better than what we have now and I don't see a reason to
>>> delay it
>>> > more.
>>> >
>>> > Emmanuel?
>>> >
>>> > --
>>> > Guillaume
>>> >
>>>
>> ___
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>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

On Tue, Sep 26, 2017 at 4:36 PM, Emmanuel Bernard 
wrote:

> As a user, I still need to be able to go to a given series page to
> understand what was done (see my initial use case). But they can be in a
> older series section in small vs big boxes.
>

This is currently missing.


> BTW tools has a Downloads link, not Releases.


Yes, Tools is different as it's just a link to the Downloads page. The
Tools section of the site is basically links to external resources.

-- 
Guillaume
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Emmanuel Bernard]

All I wanted initially was to be able to get a description of what each
series provided so that when I jump from my version to the latest, I can
see what's going on. Then you guys wanted to expose the matrix of
compatibilities as e.g. people do consume Search with a given version of
ORM.

With that being said, here is what I think are the series with value to
users today:

* Search: 5.8 (latest), 5.6 (ORM 5.0/5.1), maybe whatever the version in
  WF is
* Validator: 6.0 (latest), maybe whatever the version in WF is
* OGM: 5.2 (dev), 5.1 (stable)
* ORM: 5.2, 5.1, maybe the WF version if it's not 5.1

As a user, I still need to be able to go to a given series page to
understand what was done (see my initial use case). But they can be in a
older series section in small vs big boxes.

BTW tools has a Downloads link, not Releases.

Emmanuel

On Fri 17-09-22 17:03, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
>Ok, this will never end... It was good to merge less than 24h ago and now
>you're arguing against the very point of this work: provide users with more
>information regarding each series, so that they know what's new. (see the
>first email by Emmanuel)
>
>Please make concrete, exhaustive proposals. From what I understand, your
>concerns could be addressed with only simple changes to the menu (hide
>older series, add an "archived series" entry), but I don't know what to
>think anymore.
>
>
>Yoann Rodière
>Hibernate NoORM Team
>yo...@hibernate.org
>
>On 22 September 2017 at 16:49, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:
>
>> After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
>> obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
>> versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.
>>
>> We need to encourage people to use the latest versions and we need to
>> send a clear, strong message about this, no middle ground fiddling
>> with names and definitions
>>
>> We can give them a choice between using the latest stable vs the
>> latest development, but beyond this we're giving too much choice.
>>
>> Yet I do believe we should make it "not-hard" for people looking for
>> details of other recent versions; could we consider them all
>> "archived" ? Some drop downs on key areas like the ones in ORM today
>> would still be welcome to make it easy to find - but let's remove the
>> version choice from the "primary navigation path".
>>
>> There are some exceptional cases coming to mind which would need some
>> mitigation; for example the fact that OGM won't work with the latest
>> Search and ORM releases!
>> But there are better solutions than to pollute the website experience
>> by making the matching versions too visible, for example bundle it
>> with OGM, link to the right versions from the OGM pages, or have the
>> modules eventually pull-in the required dependencies, etc...
>> (technical details irrelevant in this context).
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sanne
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> On 22 September 2017 at 12:21, Guillaume Smet 
>> wrote:
>> > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> *IF* you are willing to improve a minor point: I didn't expect the
>> >> "Releases" menu to be expanded when not being in any of these
>> >> sections.
>> >
>> >
>> > Let's keep that one for another time.
>> >
>> >>
>> >> Related: I wouldn't highlight both the current release and the
>> >> "Releases" label, the shading looks odd and misaligned.
>> >
>> >
>> > Yoann fixed it.
>> >
>> > Could we push that version to production and iterate after if required?
>> >
>> > It's a tad better than what we have now and I don't see a reason to
>> delay it
>> > more.
>> >
>> > Emmanuel?
>> >
>> > --
>> > Guillaume
>> >
>>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

Aaaand it's merged.

I tried to clean up release YAML files as much as possible for every
project, adding missing files as necessary.

You may want to add some content to each project, most notably to the
"what's new" section of each series, but also to the compatibility matrix
of each series. I updated the survival guide with some information about
the YAML files, and I'm available if you need help.

Thanks for the feedback!


Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 22 September 2017 at 23:59, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> Sorry for the confusion, my comment was indeed orthogonal and actually
> meant to get us all somwhat on the same page, as I have the feeling we
> have been proposing conflicting design changes (both here and in chat)
> because there is no agreement on the intent. I took that as a sign
> that our strategy needed to get some quorum first, but it was meant to
> bring closure on this change to go live asap, and possibly reduce
> debate on future proposals.
> As a suggestion maybe next time we start with the intent.
>
> I had already given my blessing to merge this and haven't changed my
> mind (I'd say so explicitly!). This is great progress and I'm eager to
> see it merged.
>
> > Yoann didn't change anything about which versions are advertised.
>
> He did. What you're probably missing is that my comment was
> championing it: the main Search landing page highlights the link to
> the latest series (and description) rather than to a pointless
> sourceforce download. (Steve understood it)
>
> Also I'm essentially conceding you're right in shutting down Search
> 5.7 (in subsequent work!) but for consistency reasons, not least
> people would wonder why there's a gap, I'd move all versions except
> latest to some form of "archived versions" or "previous series",
> whatever, exactly like Steve suggested. Which doesn't mean hard thye
> are going to be hard to find, but nudging people into the latest
> because it's the only thing we recommend rather than giving them
> various choices.
> All "series" pages need to stay for this to work nicely, which implies
> we definitely need the "series landing pages" Yoann introduced;
> un-exploding the menu of the series would help in the future when
> we'll have more - and that's why I suggested the change but it can
> wait.
>
> I don't see the conflict with Yoann's work; if any it's an important
> milestone. Frankly I'm confused how my suggestion was interpreted as a
> no-go; possibly as I didn't reply directly to your question about
> going ahead? I didn't reply on that directly because you made it clear
> you were waiting on Emmanuel's go ahead, but sorry anyway for the
> ambiguous message :) Damn mailing lists are hard!
>
> Thanks again!
> Sanne
>
>
> On 22 September 2017 at 18:45, Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
> > Hi Sanne,
> >
> > IMHO, this is an orthogonal discussion to the problem Yoann is trying to
> > solve.
> >
> > Yoann didn't change anything about which versions are advertised.
> >
> > What I'm saying is that, if when we start a move, we have 4 other
> > discussions about 4 other things we want to change, we won't do a move
> > anymore.
> >
> > Just to show you your point will generate more discussion and is not as
> easy
> > as it seems:
> >
> > I tend to agree that we present too many versions but I think we have to
> > think carefully about what we want to do about that (you're already
> talking
> > about the OGM exceptions, but we will also have a Search exception when
> ORM
> > 6 will be released as it will require some time for us to port Search to
> 6).
> >
> > What I was saying yesterday is that I don't think keeping Search 5.7 has
> > value as people shouldn't use that version - there's no good reason for
> it.
> > I'm more torn about 5.6 as people might find it useful if they are stuck
> on
> > ORM 5.1 for whatever reason (WildFly, difficulty to upgrade...).
> >
> > So this is not an easy debate and I don't think we should block Yoann's
> work
> > for this.
> >
> > Note that It can be quite frustrating when you invested time in something
> > and you can never merge what you did because over the time we include
> other
> > subjects in the discussion. Let's be more agile about it.
> >
> > We agreed it was a good change, let's merge it and iterate from there.
> >
> > --
> > Guillaume
> >
> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
> >> obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
> >> versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.
> >>
> >> We need to encourage people to use the latest versions and we need to
> >> send a clear, strong message about this, no middle ground fiddling
> >> with names and definitions
> >>
> >> We can give them a choice between using the latest stable vs the
> >> latest development, but beyond this 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

Thanks Yoann!

Great work

On 26 September 2017 at 14:10, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
> Aaaand it's merged.
>
> I tried to clean up release YAML files as much as possible for every
> project, adding missing files as necessary.
>
> You may want to add some content to each project, most notably to the
> "what's new" section of each series, but also to the compatibility matrix of
> each series. I updated the survival guide with some information about the
> YAML files, and I'm available if you need help.
>
> Thanks for the feedback!
>
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
> On 22 September 2017 at 23:59, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:
>>
>> Sorry for the confusion, my comment was indeed orthogonal and actually
>> meant to get us all somwhat on the same page, as I have the feeling we
>> have been proposing conflicting design changes (both here and in chat)
>> because there is no agreement on the intent. I took that as a sign
>> that our strategy needed to get some quorum first, but it was meant to
>> bring closure on this change to go live asap, and possibly reduce
>> debate on future proposals.
>> As a suggestion maybe next time we start with the intent.
>>
>> I had already given my blessing to merge this and haven't changed my
>> mind (I'd say so explicitly!). This is great progress and I'm eager to
>> see it merged.
>>
>> > Yoann didn't change anything about which versions are advertised.
>>
>> He did. What you're probably missing is that my comment was
>> championing it: the main Search landing page highlights the link to
>> the latest series (and description) rather than to a pointless
>> sourceforce download. (Steve understood it)
>>
>> Also I'm essentially conceding you're right in shutting down Search
>> 5.7 (in subsequent work!) but for consistency reasons, not least
>> people would wonder why there's a gap, I'd move all versions except
>> latest to some form of "archived versions" or "previous series",
>> whatever, exactly like Steve suggested. Which doesn't mean hard thye
>> are going to be hard to find, but nudging people into the latest
>> because it's the only thing we recommend rather than giving them
>> various choices.
>> All "series" pages need to stay for this to work nicely, which implies
>> we definitely need the "series landing pages" Yoann introduced;
>> un-exploding the menu of the series would help in the future when
>> we'll have more - and that's why I suggested the change but it can
>> wait.
>>
>> I don't see the conflict with Yoann's work; if any it's an important
>> milestone. Frankly I'm confused how my suggestion was interpreted as a
>> no-go; possibly as I didn't reply directly to your question about
>> going ahead? I didn't reply on that directly because you made it clear
>> you were waiting on Emmanuel's go ahead, but sorry anyway for the
>> ambiguous message :) Damn mailing lists are hard!
>>
>> Thanks again!
>> Sanne
>>
>>
>> On 22 September 2017 at 18:45, Guillaume Smet 
>> wrote:
>> > Hi Sanne,
>> >
>> > IMHO, this is an orthogonal discussion to the problem Yoann is trying to
>> > solve.
>> >
>> > Yoann didn't change anything about which versions are advertised.
>> >
>> > What I'm saying is that, if when we start a move, we have 4 other
>> > discussions about 4 other things we want to change, we won't do a move
>> > anymore.
>> >
>> > Just to show you your point will generate more discussion and is not as
>> > easy
>> > as it seems:
>> >
>> > I tend to agree that we present too many versions but I think we have to
>> > think carefully about what we want to do about that (you're already
>> > talking
>> > about the OGM exceptions, but we will also have a Search exception when
>> > ORM
>> > 6 will be released as it will require some time for us to port Search to
>> > 6).
>> >
>> > What I was saying yesterday is that I don't think keeping Search 5.7 has
>> > value as people shouldn't use that version - there's no good reason for
>> > it.
>> > I'm more torn about 5.6 as people might find it useful if they are stuck
>> > on
>> > ORM 5.1 for whatever reason (WildFly, difficulty to upgrade...).
>> >
>> > So this is not an easy debate and I don't think we should block Yoann's
>> > work
>> > for this.
>> >
>> > Note that It can be quite frustrating when you invested time in
>> > something
>> > and you can never merge what you did because over the time we include
>> > other
>> > subjects in the discussion. Let's be more agile about it.
>> >
>> > We agreed it was a good change, let's merge it and iterate from there.
>> >
>> > --
>> > Guillaume
>> >
>> > On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
>> >> obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
>> >> versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.
>> >>
>> >> We need to encourage people to use 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

Sorry for the confusion, my comment was indeed orthogonal and actually
meant to get us all somwhat on the same page, as I have the feeling we
have been proposing conflicting design changes (both here and in chat)
because there is no agreement on the intent. I took that as a sign
that our strategy needed to get some quorum first, but it was meant to
bring closure on this change to go live asap, and possibly reduce
debate on future proposals.
As a suggestion maybe next time we start with the intent.

I had already given my blessing to merge this and haven't changed my
mind (I'd say so explicitly!). This is great progress and I'm eager to
see it merged.

> Yoann didn't change anything about which versions are advertised.

He did. What you're probably missing is that my comment was
championing it: the main Search landing page highlights the link to
the latest series (and description) rather than to a pointless
sourceforce download. (Steve understood it)

Also I'm essentially conceding you're right in shutting down Search
5.7 (in subsequent work!) but for consistency reasons, not least
people would wonder why there's a gap, I'd move all versions except
latest to some form of "archived versions" or "previous series",
whatever, exactly like Steve suggested. Which doesn't mean hard thye
are going to be hard to find, but nudging people into the latest
because it's the only thing we recommend rather than giving them
various choices.
All "series" pages need to stay for this to work nicely, which implies
we definitely need the "series landing pages" Yoann introduced;
un-exploding the menu of the series would help in the future when
we'll have more - and that's why I suggested the change but it can
wait.

I don't see the conflict with Yoann's work; if any it's an important
milestone. Frankly I'm confused how my suggestion was interpreted as a
no-go; possibly as I didn't reply directly to your question about
going ahead? I didn't reply on that directly because you made it clear
you were waiting on Emmanuel's go ahead, but sorry anyway for the
ambiguous message :) Damn mailing lists are hard!

Thanks again!
Sanne


On 22 September 2017 at 18:45, Guillaume Smet  wrote:
> Hi Sanne,
>
> IMHO, this is an orthogonal discussion to the problem Yoann is trying to
> solve.
>
> Yoann didn't change anything about which versions are advertised.
>
> What I'm saying is that, if when we start a move, we have 4 other
> discussions about 4 other things we want to change, we won't do a move
> anymore.
>
> Just to show you your point will generate more discussion and is not as easy
> as it seems:
>
> I tend to agree that we present too many versions but I think we have to
> think carefully about what we want to do about that (you're already talking
> about the OGM exceptions, but we will also have a Search exception when ORM
> 6 will be released as it will require some time for us to port Search to 6).
>
> What I was saying yesterday is that I don't think keeping Search 5.7 has
> value as people shouldn't use that version - there's no good reason for it.
> I'm more torn about 5.6 as people might find it useful if they are stuck on
> ORM 5.1 for whatever reason (WildFly, difficulty to upgrade...).
>
> So this is not an easy debate and I don't think we should block Yoann's work
> for this.
>
> Note that It can be quite frustrating when you invested time in something
> and you can never merge what you did because over the time we include other
> subjects in the discussion. Let's be more agile about it.
>
> We agreed it was a good change, let's merge it and iterate from there.
>
> --
> Guillaume
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
> wrote:
>>
>> After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
>> obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
>> versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.
>>
>> We need to encourage people to use the latest versions and we need to
>> send a clear, strong message about this, no middle ground fiddling
>> with names and definitions
>>
>> We can give them a choice between using the latest stable vs the
>> latest development, but beyond this we're giving too much choice.
>>
>> Yet I do believe we should make it "not-hard" for people looking for
>> details of other recent versions; could we consider them all
>> "archived" ? Some drop downs on key areas like the ones in ORM today
>> would still be welcome to make it easy to find - but let's remove the
>> version choice from the "primary navigation path".
>>
>> There are some exceptional cases coming to mind which would need some
>> mitigation; for example the fact that OGM won't work with the latest
>> Search and ORM releases!
>> But there are better solutions than to pollute the website experience
>> by making the matching versions too visible, for example bundle it
>> with OGM, link to the right versions from the OGM pages, or have the
>> 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

Hi Sanne,

IMHO, this is an orthogonal discussion to the problem Yoann is trying to
solve.

Yoann didn't change anything about which versions are advertised.

What I'm saying is that, if when we start a move, we have 4 other
discussions about 4 other things we want to change, we won't do a move
anymore.

Just to show you your point will generate more discussion and is not as
easy as it seems:

I tend to agree that we present too many versions but I think we have to
think carefully about what we want to do about that (you're already talking
about the OGM exceptions, but we will also have a Search exception when ORM
6 will be released as it will require some time for us to port Search to 6).

What I was saying yesterday is that I don't think keeping Search 5.7 has
value as people shouldn't use that version - there's no good reason for it.
I'm more torn about 5.6 as people might find it useful if they are stuck on
ORM 5.1 for whatever reason (WildFly, difficulty to upgrade...).

So this is not an easy debate and I don't think we should block Yoann's
work for this.

Note that It can be quite frustrating when you invested time in something
and you can never merge what you did because over the time we include other
subjects in the discussion. Let's be more agile about it.

We agreed it was a good change, let's merge it and iterate from there.

-- 
Guillaume

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 4:49 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
wrote:

> After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
> obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
> versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.
>
> We need to encourage people to use the latest versions and we need to
> send a clear, strong message about this, no middle ground fiddling
> with names and definitions
>
> We can give them a choice between using the latest stable vs the
> latest development, but beyond this we're giving too much choice.
>
> Yet I do believe we should make it "not-hard" for people looking for
> details of other recent versions; could we consider them all
> "archived" ? Some drop downs on key areas like the ones in ORM today
> would still be welcome to make it easy to find - but let's remove the
> version choice from the "primary navigation path".
>
> There are some exceptional cases coming to mind which would need some
> mitigation; for example the fact that OGM won't work with the latest
> Search and ORM releases!
> But there are better solutions than to pollute the website experience
> by making the matching versions too visible, for example bundle it
> with OGM, link to the right versions from the OGM pages, or have the
> modules eventually pull-in the required dependencies, etc...
> (technical details irrelevant in this context).
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
>
>
>
>
> On 22 September 2017 at 12:21, Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> *IF* you are willing to improve a minor point: I didn't expect the
> >> "Releases" menu to be expanded when not being in any of these
> >> sections.
> >
> >
> > Let's keep that one for another time.
> >
> >>
> >> Related: I wouldn't highlight both the current release and the
> >> "Releases" label, the shading looks odd and misaligned.
> >
> >
> > Yoann fixed it.
> >
> > Could we push that version to production and iterate after if required?
> >
> > It's a tad better than what we have now and I don't see a reason to
> delay it
> > more.
> >
> > Emmanuel?
> >
> > --
> > Guillaume
> >
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Steve Ebersole]

And again I just wanted to say thanks, great job.  It works much better I
think, no matter these nit-picky things

On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 11:00 AM Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> I think he is saying what I was saying... make the nav links point to the
> latest version, but with easy nav from there to list of all
> series/family/whatever
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:25 AM Yoann Rodiere 
> wrote:
>
>> Ok, this will never end... It was good to merge less than 24h ago and now
>> you're arguing against the very point of this work: provide users with
>> more
>> information regarding each series, so that they know what's new. (see the
>> first email by Emmanuel)
>>
>> Please make concrete, exhaustive proposals. From what I understand, your
>> concerns could be addressed with only simple changes to the menu (hide
>> older series, add an "archived series" entry), but I don't know what to
>> think anymore.
>>
>>
>> Yoann Rodière
>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>> yo...@hibernate.org
>>
>> On 22 September 2017 at 16:49, Sanne Grinovero 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
>> > obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
>> > versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.
>> >
>> > We need to encourage people to use the latest versions and we need to
>> > send a clear, strong message about this, no middle ground fiddling
>> > with names and definitions
>> >
>> > We can give them a choice between using the latest stable vs the
>> > latest development, but beyond this we're giving too much choice.
>> >
>> > Yet I do believe we should make it "not-hard" for people looking for
>> > details of other recent versions; could we consider them all
>> > "archived" ? Some drop downs on key areas like the ones in ORM today
>> > would still be welcome to make it easy to find - but let's remove the
>> > version choice from the "primary navigation path".
>> >
>> > There are some exceptional cases coming to mind which would need some
>> > mitigation; for example the fact that OGM won't work with the latest
>> > Search and ORM releases!
>> > But there are better solutions than to pollute the website experience
>> > by making the matching versions too visible, for example bundle it
>> > with OGM, link to the right versions from the OGM pages, or have the
>> > modules eventually pull-in the required dependencies, etc...
>> > (technical details irrelevant in this context).
>> >
>> > Thanks,
>> > Sanne
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> >
>> > On 22 September 2017 at 12:21, Guillaume Smet > >
>> > wrote:
>> > > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Sanne Grinovero > >
>> > > wrote:
>> > >>
>> > >> *IF* you are willing to improve a minor point: I didn't expect the
>> > >> "Releases" menu to be expanded when not being in any of these
>> > >> sections.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Let's keep that one for another time.
>> > >
>> > >>
>> > >> Related: I wouldn't highlight both the current release and the
>> > >> "Releases" label, the shading looks odd and misaligned.
>> > >
>> > >
>> > > Yoann fixed it.
>> > >
>> > > Could we push that version to production and iterate after if
>> required?
>> > >
>> > > It's a tad better than what we have now and I don't see a reason to
>> > delay it
>> > > more.
>> > >
>> > > Emmanuel?
>> > >
>> > > --
>> > > Guillaume
>> > >
>> >
>> ___
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
>
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Steve Ebersole]

I think he is saying what I was saying... make the nav links point to the
latest version, but with easy nav from there to list of all
series/family/whatever


On Fri, Sep 22, 2017 at 10:25 AM Yoann Rodiere  wrote:

> Ok, this will never end... It was good to merge less than 24h ago and now
> you're arguing against the very point of this work: provide users with more
> information regarding each series, so that they know what's new. (see the
> first email by Emmanuel)
>
> Please make concrete, exhaustive proposals. From what I understand, your
> concerns could be addressed with only simple changes to the menu (hide
> older series, add an "archived series" entry), but I don't know what to
> think anymore.
>
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
> On 22 September 2017 at 16:49, Sanne Grinovero 
> wrote:
>
> > After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
> > obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
> > versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.
> >
> > We need to encourage people to use the latest versions and we need to
> > send a clear, strong message about this, no middle ground fiddling
> > with names and definitions
> >
> > We can give them a choice between using the latest stable vs the
> > latest development, but beyond this we're giving too much choice.
> >
> > Yet I do believe we should make it "not-hard" for people looking for
> > details of other recent versions; could we consider them all
> > "archived" ? Some drop downs on key areas like the ones in ORM today
> > would still be welcome to make it easy to find - but let's remove the
> > version choice from the "primary navigation path".
> >
> > There are some exceptional cases coming to mind which would need some
> > mitigation; for example the fact that OGM won't work with the latest
> > Search and ORM releases!
> > But there are better solutions than to pollute the website experience
> > by making the matching versions too visible, for example bundle it
> > with OGM, link to the right versions from the OGM pages, or have the
> > modules eventually pull-in the required dependencies, etc...
> > (technical details irrelevant in this context).
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Sanne
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > On 22 September 2017 at 12:21, Guillaume Smet 
> > wrote:
> > > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
> > > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> *IF* you are willing to improve a minor point: I didn't expect the
> > >> "Releases" menu to be expanded when not being in any of these
> > >> sections.
> > >
> > >
> > > Let's keep that one for another time.
> > >
> > >>
> > >> Related: I wouldn't highlight both the current release and the
> > >> "Releases" label, the shading looks odd and misaligned.
> > >
> > >
> > > Yoann fixed it.
> > >
> > > Could we push that version to production and iterate after if required?
> > >
> > > It's a tad better than what we have now and I don't see a reason to
> > delay it
> > > more.
> > >
> > > Emmanuel?
> > >
> > > --
> > > Guillaume
> > >
> >
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

Ok, this will never end... It was good to merge less than 24h ago and now
you're arguing against the very point of this work: provide users with more
information regarding each series, so that they know what's new. (see the
first email by Emmanuel)

Please make concrete, exhaustive proposals. From what I understand, your
concerns could be addressed with only simple changes to the menu (hide
older series, add an "archived series" entry), but I don't know what to
think anymore.


Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 22 September 2017 at 16:49, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
> obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
> versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.
>
> We need to encourage people to use the latest versions and we need to
> send a clear, strong message about this, no middle ground fiddling
> with names and definitions
>
> We can give them a choice between using the latest stable vs the
> latest development, but beyond this we're giving too much choice.
>
> Yet I do believe we should make it "not-hard" for people looking for
> details of other recent versions; could we consider them all
> "archived" ? Some drop downs on key areas like the ones in ORM today
> would still be welcome to make it easy to find - but let's remove the
> version choice from the "primary navigation path".
>
> There are some exceptional cases coming to mind which would need some
> mitigation; for example the fact that OGM won't work with the latest
> Search and ORM releases!
> But there are better solutions than to pollute the website experience
> by making the matching versions too visible, for example bundle it
> with OGM, link to the right versions from the OGM pages, or have the
> modules eventually pull-in the required dependencies, etc...
> (technical details irrelevant in this context).
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
>
>
>
>
> On 22 September 2017 at 12:21, Guillaume Smet 
> wrote:
> > On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
> > wrote:
> >>
> >> *IF* you are willing to improve a minor point: I didn't expect the
> >> "Releases" menu to be expanded when not being in any of these
> >> sections.
> >
> >
> > Let's keep that one for another time.
> >
> >>
> >> Related: I wouldn't highlight both the current release and the
> >> "Releases" label, the shading looks odd and misaligned.
> >
> >
> > Yoann fixed it.
> >
> > Could we push that version to production and iterate after if required?
> >
> > It's a tad better than what we have now and I don't see a reason to
> delay it
> > more.
> >
> > Emmanuel?
> >
> > --
> > Guillaume
> >
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

After some chats and a night of sleep on this, I think we need to stop
obsessing about guiding people into the choice among multiple minor
versions: it's hard enough that they have to pick a project.

We need to encourage people to use the latest versions and we need to
send a clear, strong message about this, no middle ground fiddling
with names and definitions

We can give them a choice between using the latest stable vs the
latest development, but beyond this we're giving too much choice.

Yet I do believe we should make it "not-hard" for people looking for
details of other recent versions; could we consider them all
"archived" ? Some drop downs on key areas like the ones in ORM today
would still be welcome to make it easy to find - but let's remove the
version choice from the "primary navigation path".

There are some exceptional cases coming to mind which would need some
mitigation; for example the fact that OGM won't work with the latest
Search and ORM releases!
But there are better solutions than to pollute the website experience
by making the matching versions too visible, for example bundle it
with OGM, link to the right versions from the OGM pages, or have the
modules eventually pull-in the required dependencies, etc...
(technical details irrelevant in this context).

Thanks,
Sanne




On 22 September 2017 at 12:21, Guillaume Smet  wrote:
> On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
> wrote:
>>
>> *IF* you are willing to improve a minor point: I didn't expect the
>> "Releases" menu to be expanded when not being in any of these
>> sections.
>
>
> Let's keep that one for another time.
>
>>
>> Related: I wouldn't highlight both the current release and the
>> "Releases" label, the shading looks odd and misaligned.
>
>
> Yoann fixed it.
>
> Could we push that version to production and iterate after if required?
>
> It's a tad better than what we have now and I don't see a reason to delay it
> more.
>
> Emmanuel?
>
> --
> Guillaume
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 6:45 PM, Sanne Grinovero 
wrote:

> *IF* you are willing to improve a minor point: I didn't expect the
> "Releases" menu to be expanded when not being in any of these
> sections.
>

Let's keep that one for another time.


> Related: I wouldn't highlight both the current release and the
> "Releases" label, the shading looks odd and misaligned.
>

Yoann fixed it.

Could we push that version to production and iterate after if required?

It's a tad better than what we have now and I don't see a reason to delay
it more.

Emmanuel?

-- 
Guillaume
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

I like it, looking forward to integration.

*IF* you are willing to improve a minor point: I didn't expect the
"Releases" menu to be expanded when not being in any of these
sections.
Related: I wouldn't highlight both the current release and the
"Releases" label, the shading looks odd and misaligned.

Thanks!
Sanne


On 21 September 2017 at 16:10, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
> No answer? So I guess I can merge it whenever I want? :-)
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
> On 19 September 2017 at 08:36, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>>
>> So, following the comments and a discussion on Hangouts on Friday, I
>> worked a bit more, and I just pushed what will hopefully be the last version
>> ;)
>>
>> Main changes:
>>
>> The "Releases" menu entry now has one sub-entry for each series
>> The big, green/yellow buttons related to the stable/development releases,
>> and located on the top of the "About" page and "Releases" page.
>> Previously they allowed to download a ZIP, but that's arguably not very
>> useful without all the information provided by the series page
>> (documentation, "What's new", compatibility, ...).
>> So now, they redirect to the dedicated page of the current
>> stable/development series.
>> See for example http://staging.hibernate.org/ogm/
>> The list of series in the "Releases" page has been modified to better suit
>> its new purpose: it's just a hub to the dedicated page of each series, and
>> as such its content should be very clear and provide obvious links to the
>> page for each series. I made do with what's available in our current CSS
>> framework (it's Bootstrap 2, which is very old), but I have good hope that
>> we could improve on that one day (if we upgrade to Bootstrap 3/4).
>> See for example http://staging.hibernate.org/ogm/releases/
>> The maven coordinates and download link for the latest releases has moved
>> to the series-specific page. It is configurable for each project: one can
>> specify in the series.yml file which artifacts should be displayed, and add
>> a summary for each artifact.
>> I decided against the XML format and simply displayed the GAV as
>> groupId:artifactId:version. Two reasons:
>>  1. The XML format is really, really verbose, and the pages are long
>> enough as they are (one already needs to scroll one screen down to see the
>> "What's new" section).
>>  2. I can't create a single syntax-highlighted block from the content of
>> YAML files (if I switch to the AsciiDoc format, I don't have access to the
>> loop features of HAML, and if I stick to HAML I don't have access to
>> AsciiDoc syntax highlighting).
>> Yes, we could probably solve 2, given enough time. And yes, I suppose we
>> could find better UI alternatives using tabs or whatever. But I've already
>> spent way too much time on this. Could we just agree it's good enough and
>> work on this later?
>> See for example http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/#get_it
>> As requested, I updated the "survival guide":
>> http://staging.hibernate.org/survival-guide/
>>
>>
>> Yoann Rodière
>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>> yo...@hibernate.org
>>
>> On 18 September 2017 at 10:44, Sanne Grinovero 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On 14 September 2017 at 13:34, Steve Ebersole 
>>> wrote:
>>> > Yoann,
>>> >
>>> > First thanks for the work on this.  I think it looks worlds better.  A
>>> > few
>>> > minor things:
>>> >
>>> > Not sure of the source for this, but can we fix these doc link for 5.2
>>> > from
>>> >
>>> > `https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/stable/orm/userguide/html_single/Hibernate_User_Guide.html`
>>> > to `https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2`?  Also, why https?  Not
>>> > sure
>>> > it matters, just found it odd
>>>
>>> Specifically about the `https` question: there's no longer any reason
>>> standing to avoid https, other than it being slightly more work to
>>> setup - in this case it's done by the jboss.org team so we can take
>>> advantage from it at no extra effort.
>>>
>>> There are several benefits in using it from the SEO perspective though
>>> so we should use and encourage it whenever possible, to make these
>>> URLs the canonical ones for the documentation. (and also because
>>> otherwise bots (and people) need to be thaught that this content is
>>> now available over https as well).
>>>
>>> Ideally we should set it up for our websites too.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sanne
>>>
>>> > Much of the information on that ORM releases page is, in turn,
>>> > version/series specific.  Any reason why those pieces of information
>>> > are not
>>> > part of the series?  Either in the synopsis on the releases page or on
>>> > the
>>> > specific series page, or both.  Specifically
>>> >
>>> > "Compatibility Matrix" - the fact that its a table based on series is a
>>> > good
>>> > indicator it is all series specific ;)
>>> > "Maven Repository" - I'd personally prefer to have this as part of the
>>> > series info
>>> >

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

Looks like the issues I reported directly to you are fixed so it's OK for
me.

Emmanuel?

On Thu, Sep 21, 2017 at 5:10 PM, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:

> No answer? So I guess I can merge it whenever I want? :-)
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

No answer? So I guess I can merge it whenever I want? :-)

Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 19 September 2017 at 08:36, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:

> So, following the comments and a discussion on Hangouts on Friday, I
> worked a bit more, and I just pushed what will hopefully be the last
> version ;)
>
> Main changes:
>
>- The "Releases" menu entry now has one sub-entry for each series
>- The big, green/yellow buttons related to the stable/development
>releases, and located on the top of the "About" page and "Releases" page.
>Previously they allowed to download a ZIP, but that's arguably not
>very useful without all the information provided by the series page
>(documentation, "What's new", compatibility, ...).
>So now, they redirect to the dedicated page of the current
>stable/development series.
>See for example http://staging.hibernate.org/ogm/
>- The list of series in the "Releases" page has been modified to
>better suit its new purpose: it's just a hub to the dedicated page of each
>series, and as such its content should be very clear and provide obvious
>links to the page for each series. I made do with what's available in our
>current CSS framework (it's Bootstrap 2, which is very old), but I have
>good hope that we could improve on that one day (if we upgrade to Bootstrap
>3/4).
>See for example http://staging.hibernate.org/ogm/releases/
>- The maven coordinates and download link for the latest releases has
>moved to the series-specific page. It is configurable for each project: one
>can specify in the series.yml file which artifacts should be displayed, and
>add a summary for each artifact.
>I decided against the XML format and simply displayed the GAV as
>groupId:artifactId:version. Two reasons:
> 1. The XML format is really, really verbose, and the pages are long
>enough as they are (one already needs to scroll one screen down to see the
>"What's new" section).
> 2. I can't create a single syntax-highlighted block from the content
>of YAML files (if I switch to the AsciiDoc format, I don't have access to
>the loop features of HAML, and if I stick to HAML I don't have access to
>AsciiDoc syntax highlighting).
>Yes, we could probably solve 2, given enough time. And yes, I suppose
>we could find better UI alternatives using tabs or whatever. But I've
>already spent way too much time on this. Could we just agree it's good
>enough and work on this later?
>See for example http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/#
>get_it
>- As requested, I updated the "survival guide": http://staging.hiberna
>te.org/survival-guide/
>
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
> On 18 September 2017 at 10:44, Sanne Grinovero 
> wrote:
>
>> On 14 September 2017 at 13:34, Steve Ebersole 
>> wrote:
>> > Yoann,
>> >
>> > First thanks for the work on this.  I think it looks worlds better.  A
>> few
>> > minor things:
>> >
>> > Not sure of the source for this, but can we fix these doc link for 5.2
>> from
>> > `https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/stable/orm/userguide/html_
>> single/Hibernate_User_Guide.html`
>> 
>> > to `https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2`
>> ?  Also, why https?  Not sure
>> > it matters, just found it odd
>>
>> Specifically about the `https` question: there's no longer any reason
>> standing to avoid https, other than it being slightly more work to
>> setup - in this case it's done by the jboss.org team so we can take
>> advantage from it at no extra effort.
>>
>> There are several benefits in using it from the SEO perspective though
>> so we should use and encourage it whenever possible, to make these
>> URLs the canonical ones for the documentation. (and also because
>> otherwise bots (and people) need to be thaught that this content is
>> now available over https as well).
>>
>> Ideally we should set it up for our websites too.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sanne
>>
>> > Much of the information on that ORM releases page is, in turn,
>> > version/series specific.  Any reason why those pieces of information
>> are not
>> > part of the series?  Either in the synopsis on the releases page or on
>> the
>> > specific series page, or both.  Specifically
>> >
>> > "Compatibility Matrix" - the fact that its a table based on series is a
>> good
>> > indicator it is all series specific ;)
>> > "Maven Repository" - I'd personally prefer to have this as part of the
>> > series info
>> >
>> > I think the individual series pages are missing a key piece of
>> > information... the "synopsis" of that series.  I guess partially this
>> fits
>> > under "what's new"
>> >
>> > Other than these minor things I love it.  Great job!
>> >
>> > 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

So, following the comments and a discussion on Hangouts on Friday, I worked
a bit more, and I just pushed what will hopefully be the last version ;)

Main changes:

   - The "Releases" menu entry now has one sub-entry for each series
   - The big, green/yellow buttons related to the stable/development
   releases, and located on the top of the "About" page and "Releases" page.
   Previously they allowed to download a ZIP, but that's arguably not very
   useful without all the information provided by the series page
   (documentation, "What's new", compatibility, ...).
   So now, they redirect to the dedicated page of the current
   stable/development series.
   See for example http://staging.hibernate.org/ogm/
   - The list of series in the "Releases" page has been modified to better
   suit its new purpose: it's just a hub to the dedicated page of each series,
   and as such its content should be very clear and provide obvious links to
   the page for each series. I made do with what's available in our current
   CSS framework (it's Bootstrap 2, which is very old), but I have good hope
   that we could improve on that one day (if we upgrade to Bootstrap 3/4).
   See for example http://staging.hibernate.org/ogm/releases/
   - The maven coordinates and download link for the latest releases has
   moved to the series-specific page. It is configurable for each project: one
   can specify in the series.yml file which artifacts should be displayed, and
   add a summary for each artifact.
   I decided against the XML format and simply displayed the GAV as
   groupId:artifactId:version. Two reasons:
1. The XML format is really, really verbose, and the pages are long
   enough as they are (one already needs to scroll one screen down to see the
   "What's new" section).
2. I can't create a single syntax-highlighted block from the content of
   YAML files (if I switch to the AsciiDoc format, I don't have access to the
   loop features of HAML, and if I stick to HAML I don't have access to
   AsciiDoc syntax highlighting).
   Yes, we could probably solve 2, given enough time. And yes, I suppose we
   could find better UI alternatives using tabs or whatever. But I've already
   spent way too much time on this. Could we just agree it's good enough and
   work on this later?
   See for example http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/#get_it
   - As requested, I updated the "survival guide": http://staging.
   hibernate.org/survival-guide/


Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 18 September 2017 at 10:44, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> On 14 September 2017 at 13:34, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> > Yoann,
> >
> > First thanks for the work on this.  I think it looks worlds better.  A
> few
> > minor things:
> >
> > Not sure of the source for this, but can we fix these doc link for 5.2
> from
> > `https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/stable/orm/userguide/html_single/
> Hibernate_User_Guide.html`
> > to `https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2`?  Also, why https?  Not
> sure
> > it matters, just found it odd
>
> Specifically about the `https` question: there's no longer any reason
> standing to avoid https, other than it being slightly more work to
> setup - in this case it's done by the jboss.org team so we can take
> advantage from it at no extra effort.
>
> There are several benefits in using it from the SEO perspective though
> so we should use and encourage it whenever possible, to make these
> URLs the canonical ones for the documentation. (and also because
> otherwise bots (and people) need to be thaught that this content is
> now available over https as well).
>
> Ideally we should set it up for our websites too.
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
>
> > Much of the information on that ORM releases page is, in turn,
> > version/series specific.  Any reason why those pieces of information are
> not
> > part of the series?  Either in the synopsis on the releases page or on
> the
> > specific series page, or both.  Specifically
> >
> > "Compatibility Matrix" - the fact that its a table based on series is a
> good
> > indicator it is all series specific ;)
> > "Maven Repository" - I'd personally prefer to have this as part of the
> > series info
> >
> > I think the individual series pages are missing a key piece of
> > information... the "synopsis" of that series.  I guess partially this
> fits
> > under "what's new"
> >
> > Other than these minor things I love it.  Great job!
> >
> > P.S. another question is whether (and if so, how) to apply the same
> > treatment to the Documentation info in terms of the nav links.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 7:05 AM Yoann Rodiere 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> I polished the changes, applied them to all projects (ORM, OGM,
> Validator,
> >> Search), and sent a PR: https://github.com/hibernate/
> hibernate.org/pull/126
> >> Could you guys review it? Mainly I'd need one person per project to
> check
> >> they agree with 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 14 September 2017 at 13:34, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
> Yoann,
>
> First thanks for the work on this.  I think it looks worlds better.  A few
> minor things:
>
> Not sure of the source for this, but can we fix these doc link for 5.2 from
> `https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/stable/orm/userguide/html_single/Hibernate_User_Guide.html`
> to `https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2`?  Also, why https?  Not sure
> it matters, just found it odd

Specifically about the `https` question: there's no longer any reason
standing to avoid https, other than it being slightly more work to
setup - in this case it's done by the jboss.org team so we can take
advantage from it at no extra effort.

There are several benefits in using it from the SEO perspective though
so we should use and encourage it whenever possible, to make these
URLs the canonical ones for the documentation. (and also because
otherwise bots (and people) need to be thaught that this content is
now available over https as well).

Ideally we should set it up for our websites too.

Thanks,
Sanne

> Much of the information on that ORM releases page is, in turn,
> version/series specific.  Any reason why those pieces of information are not
> part of the series?  Either in the synopsis on the releases page or on the
> specific series page, or both.  Specifically
>
> "Compatibility Matrix" - the fact that its a table based on series is a good
> indicator it is all series specific ;)
> "Maven Repository" - I'd personally prefer to have this as part of the
> series info
>
> I think the individual series pages are missing a key piece of
> information... the "synopsis" of that series.  I guess partially this fits
> under "what's new"
>
> Other than these minor things I love it.  Great job!
>
> P.S. another question is whether (and if so, how) to apply the same
> treatment to the Documentation info in terms of the nav links.
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 7:05 AM Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>>
>> I polished the changes, applied them to all projects (ORM, OGM, Validator,
>> Search), and sent a PR: https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate.org/pull/126
>> Could you guys review it? Mainly I'd need one person per project to check
>> they agree with the changes, especially in their project's section.
>> Also, there's still a bit of work to do for each project, mainly filling
>> in missing metadata (see the PR).
>>
>> Yoann Rodière
>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>> yo...@hibernate.org
>>
>> On 14 September 2017 at 10:38, Emmanuel Bernard 
>> wrote:
>>>
>>> On Wed 17-09-13 10:55, Sanne Grinovero wrote:

 On 13 September 2017 at 10:51, Yoann Rodiere 
 wrote:
>>
>> It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should
>> I
>> scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with
>> version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit.
>
>
>
> At least versions are in desc order :D
> More seriously, I was more worried about the number of dependencies
> than
> about the number of series. We don't want to maintain a hundred
> branches, so
> we'll probably try to keep the number of series to a minimum, but we do
> want
> to offer as much as possible to users, so we may offer many different
> integrations, and thus many different dependencies. Just think if the
> ORM
> team wants to display supported versions of each DBMS... So I thought
> showing versions horizontally would be more future-proof.
> I'll try to add horizontal scrolling to the table. The oldest releases
> may
> not be displayed, but then those are not the one we want to advertise,
> so...
> And in any case, we have limited horizontal space, so we have to hide
> *something*.
> About phones, I think bootstrap has something, I'll give it a try.
>
>> On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some
>> basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases
>> descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy?
>
>
>
> Sure, we can do that. But the "downloads" page will essentially be a
> stripped-down version of the "releases" page.


 +1 since maintenance is automated I see no problem with a little
 redundancy.
>>>
>>>
>>> I'm not sure two pages is really solving the problem. It looks like you
>>> don't want to make a choice. But I don't have a pro/con opinion.
>>> My real concern is since you will have two pages, what's the navigation
>>> logic? How do you reach each on of these pages?
>>>
>>> Just thinking out loud here but I think the one way to solve long
>>> standing Steve objective is indeed to have per series sections of the
>>> website (including download, documentation, migration guide)
>>> And a top nav for "latest/promoted" releases (like we have today
>>> really).
>>> How do you merge the two 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 9:03 PM, Emmanuel Bernard 
wrote:

> I don’t like it. It’s less important than what the various versions bring
> (the onliner) and the ability to go download them right away.
>

OK. Let's agree to disagree :). We often have SO questions of people not
using the right version.

Not sure it would help to put the information more visible though.

-- 
Guillaume
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Emmanuel Bernard]

I don’t like it. It’s less important than what the various versions bring (the 
onliner) and the ability to go download them right away.

> On 14 Sep 2017, at 15:27, Guillaume Smet  wrote:
> 
> Hi,
> 
> Would anyone have something about putting the Compatibility matrix before
> the Series part in the page: http://staging.hibernate.org/ogm/releases/ ?
> 
> Atm, we don't see the matrix at a quick glance (I totally missed it until
> Yoann told me it was there) and I think it's probably the first information
> you need when you want to download something. Typically, if you're stuck to
> Java 6 for whatever reasons, no need to take a look at the 5.2 serie.
> 
> It's maybe a little less sexy but it would be more useful IMHO.
> 
> -- 
> Guillaume
> 
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 2:55 PM, Vlad Mihalcea 
> wrote:
> 
>> Hi,
>> 
>> To be able to load the User Guide like this:
>> 
>> https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2
>> 
>> 
>> we have two options:
>> 
>> 1. Either we rename the User Guide to index.adoc so that it will become
>> index.html.
>> 2. We leave it as-is, but when we copy the docs to JBoss, we also copy the
>> User Guide as index.html as well. This will allow our users to retain
>> bookmarks they've created since we published the new User Guide.
>> 
>> Let me know which one do you prefer.
>> Vlad
>> 
>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Steve Ebersole 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> Yoann,
>>> 
>>> First thanks for the work on this.  I think it looks worlds better.  A
>> few
>>> minor things:
>>> 
>>> 
>>>   1. Not sure of the source for this, but can we fix these doc link for
>>>   5.2 from `
>>>   https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/stable/orm/userguide/html_single/
>>> Hibernate_User_Guide.html`
>>>   to `https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2`?  Also, why https?  Not
>>>   sure it matters, just found it odd
>>>   2. Much of the information on that ORM releases page is, in turn,
>>>   version/series specific.  Any reason why those pieces of information
>> are
>>>   not part of the series?  Either in the synopsis on the releases page
>> or
>>> on
>>>   the specific series page, or both.  Specifically
>>>  1. "Compatibility Matrix" - the fact that its a table based on
>> series
>>>  is a good indicator it is all series specific ;)
>>>  2. "Maven Repository" - I'd personally prefer to have this as part
>> of
>>>  the series info
>>>   3. I think the individual series pages are missing a key piece of
>>>   information... the "synopsis" of that series.  I guess partially this
>>> fits
>>>   under "what's new"
>>> 
>>> Other than these minor things I love it.  Great job!
>>> 
>>> P.S. another question is whether (and if so, how) to apply the same
>>> treatment to the Documentation info in terms of the nav links.
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 7:05 AM Yoann Rodiere 
>> wrote:
>>> 
 I polished the changes, applied them to all projects (ORM, OGM,
>>> Validator,
 Search), and sent a PR:
 https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate.org/pull/126
 Could you guys review it? Mainly I'd need one person per project to
>> check
 they agree with the changes, especially in their project's section.
 Also, there's still a bit of work to do for each project, mainly
>> filling
 in missing metadata (see the PR).
 
 Yoann Rodière
 Hibernate NoORM Team
 yo...@hibernate.org
 
 On 14 September 2017 at 10:38, Emmanuel Bernard <
>> emman...@hibernate.org>
 wrote:
 
> On Wed 17-09-13 10:55, Sanne Grinovero wrote:
> 
>> On 13 September 2017 at 10:51, Yoann Rodiere 
>> wrote:
>> 
>>> It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version,
>> should
>>> I
 scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically
>> with
 version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit.
 
>>> 
>>> 
>>> At least versions are in desc order :D
>>> More seriously, I was more worried about the number of dependencies
>>> than
>>> about the number of series. We don't want to maintain a hundred
>>> branches, so
>>> we'll probably try to keep the number of series to a minimum, but we
>>> do
>>> want
>>> to offer as much as possible to users, so we may offer many
>> different
>>> integrations, and thus many different dependencies. Just think if
>> the
>>> ORM
>>> team wants to display supported versions of each DBMS... So I
>> thought
>>> showing versions horizontally would be more future-proof.
>>> I'll try to add horizontal scrolling to the table. The oldest
>> releases
>>> may
>>> not be displayed, but then those are not the one we want to
>> advertise,
>>> so...
>>> And in any case, we have limited horizontal space, so we have to
>> hide
>>> *something*.
>>> About phones, I think bootstrap has 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Steve Ebersole]

This makes me a little nervous in the case we ever publish other
manuals/docs.

IMO the better option is to publish an index.html that is currently just a
redirect to the User Manual

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017, 7:55 AM Vlad Mihalcea  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> To be able to load the User Guide like this:
>
> https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2
> 
>
> we have two options:
>
> 1. Either we rename the User Guide to index.adoc so that it will become
> index.html.
> 2. We leave it as-is, but when we copy the docs to JBoss, we also copy the
> User Guide as index.html as well. This will allow our users to retain
> bookmarks they've created since we published the new User Guide.
>
> Let me know which one do you prefer.
> Vlad
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Steve Ebersole 
> wrote:
>
>> Yoann,
>>
>> First thanks for the work on this.  I think it looks worlds better.  A few
>> minor things:
>>
>>
>>1. Not sure of the source for this, but can we fix these doc link for
>
>
>>5.2 from `
>>
>> https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/stable/orm/userguide/html_single/Hibernate_User_Guide.html`
>> 
>>to `https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2`
>> ?  Also, why https?  Not
>>sure it matters, just found it odd
>>
>2. Much of the information on that ORM releases page is, in turn,
>
>
>>version/series specific.  Any reason why those pieces of information
>> are
>>not part of the series?  Either in the synopsis on the releases page
>> or on
>>the specific series page, or both.  Specifically
>>
>   1. "Compatibility Matrix" - the fact that its a table based on series
>
>
>>   is a good indicator it is all series specific ;)
>>
>   2. "Maven Repository" - I'd personally prefer to have this as part of
>>   the series info
>>3. I think the individual series pages are missing a key piece of
>
>
>>information... the "synopsis" of that series.  I guess partially this
>> fits
>>under "what's new"
>>
>> Other than these minor things I love it.  Great job!
>>
>> P.S. another question is whether (and if so, how) to apply the same
>> treatment to the Documentation info in terms of the nav links.
>>
>
>> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 7:05 AM Yoann Rodiere 
>> wrote:
>>
>> > I polished the changes, applied them to all projects (ORM, OGM,
>> Validator,
>> > Search), and sent a PR:
>> > https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate.org/pull/126
>> > Could you guys review it? Mainly I'd need one person per project to
>> check
>> > they agree with the changes, especially in their project's section.
>> > Also, there's still a bit of work to do for each project, mainly filling
>> > in missing metadata (see the PR).
>> >
>> > Yoann Rodière
>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > yo...@hibernate.org
>> >
>> > On 14 September 2017 at 10:38, Emmanuel Bernard > >
>> > wrote:
>> >
>> >> On Wed 17-09-13 10:55, Sanne Grinovero wrote:
>> >>
>> >>> On 13 September 2017 at 10:51, Yoann Rodiere 
>> >>> wrote:
>> >>>
>>  It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version,
>> should I
>> > scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with
>> > version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit.
>> >
>> 
>> 
>>  At least versions are in desc order :D
>>  More seriously, I was more worried about the number of dependencies
>> than
>>  about the number of series. We don't want to maintain a hundred
>>  branches, so
>>  we'll probably try to keep the number of series to a minimum, but we
>> do
>>  want
>>  to offer as much as possible to users, so we may offer many different
>>  integrations, and thus many different dependencies. Just think if the
>>  ORM
>>  team wants to display supported versions of each DBMS... So I thought
>>  showing versions horizontally would be more future-proof.
>>  I'll try to add horizontal scrolling to the table. The oldest
>> releases
>>  may
>>  not be displayed, but then those are not the one we want to
>> advertise,
>>  so...
>>  And in any case, we have limited horizontal space, so we have to hide
>>  *something*.
>>  About phones, I think bootstrap has something, I'll give it a try.
>> 
>>  On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some
>> > basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases
>> > descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy?
>> >
>> 
>> 
>>  Sure, we can do that. But the "downloads" page will essentially be a
>>  stripped-down version of the "releases" page.
>> 
>> >>>
>> >>> +1 since maintenance is automated I see no problem with a little
>> >>> redundancy.
>> >>>
>> >>

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

Hi,

Would anyone have something about putting the Compatibility matrix before
the Series part in the page: http://staging.hibernate.org/ogm/releases/ ?

Atm, we don't see the matrix at a quick glance (I totally missed it until
Yoann told me it was there) and I think it's probably the first information
you need when you want to download something. Typically, if you're stuck to
Java 6 for whatever reasons, no need to take a look at the 5.2 serie.

It's maybe a little less sexy but it would be more useful IMHO.

-- 
Guillaume

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 2:55 PM, Vlad Mihalcea 
wrote:

> Hi,
>
> To be able to load the User Guide like this:
>
> https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2
> 
>
> we have two options:
>
> 1. Either we rename the User Guide to index.adoc so that it will become
> index.html.
> 2. We leave it as-is, but when we copy the docs to JBoss, we also copy the
> User Guide as index.html as well. This will allow our users to retain
> bookmarks they've created since we published the new User Guide.
>
> Let me know which one do you prefer.
> Vlad
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Steve Ebersole 
> wrote:
>
> > Yoann,
> >
> > First thanks for the work on this.  I think it looks worlds better.  A
> few
> > minor things:
> >
> >
> >1. Not sure of the source for this, but can we fix these doc link for
> >5.2 from `
> >https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/stable/orm/userguide/html_single/
> > Hibernate_User_Guide.html`
> >to `https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2`?  Also, why https?  Not
> >sure it matters, just found it odd
> >2. Much of the information on that ORM releases page is, in turn,
> >version/series specific.  Any reason why those pieces of information
> are
> >not part of the series?  Either in the synopsis on the releases page
> or
> > on
> >the specific series page, or both.  Specifically
> >   1. "Compatibility Matrix" - the fact that its a table based on
> series
> >   is a good indicator it is all series specific ;)
> >   2. "Maven Repository" - I'd personally prefer to have this as part
> of
> >   the series info
> >3. I think the individual series pages are missing a key piece of
> >information... the "synopsis" of that series.  I guess partially this
> > fits
> >under "what's new"
> >
> > Other than these minor things I love it.  Great job!
> >
> > P.S. another question is whether (and if so, how) to apply the same
> > treatment to the Documentation info in terms of the nav links.
> >
> > On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 7:05 AM Yoann Rodiere 
> wrote:
> >
> > > I polished the changes, applied them to all projects (ORM, OGM,
> > Validator,
> > > Search), and sent a PR:
> > > https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate.org/pull/126
> > > Could you guys review it? Mainly I'd need one person per project to
> check
> > > they agree with the changes, especially in their project's section.
> > > Also, there's still a bit of work to do for each project, mainly
> filling
> > > in missing metadata (see the PR).
> > >
> > > Yoann Rodière
> > > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > > yo...@hibernate.org
> > >
> > > On 14 September 2017 at 10:38, Emmanuel Bernard <
> emman...@hibernate.org>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >> On Wed 17-09-13 10:55, Sanne Grinovero wrote:
> > >>
> > >>> On 13 September 2017 at 10:51, Yoann Rodiere 
> > >>> wrote:
> > >>>
> >  It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version,
> should
> > I
> > > scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically
> with
> > > version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit.
> > >
> > 
> > 
> >  At least versions are in desc order :D
> >  More seriously, I was more worried about the number of dependencies
> > than
> >  about the number of series. We don't want to maintain a hundred
> >  branches, so
> >  we'll probably try to keep the number of series to a minimum, but we
> > do
> >  want
> >  to offer as much as possible to users, so we may offer many
> different
> >  integrations, and thus many different dependencies. Just think if
> the
> >  ORM
> >  team wants to display supported versions of each DBMS... So I
> thought
> >  showing versions horizontally would be more future-proof.
> >  I'll try to add horizontal scrolling to the table. The oldest
> releases
> >  may
> >  not be displayed, but then those are not the one we want to
> advertise,
> >  so...
> >  And in any case, we have limited horizontal space, so we have to
> hide
> >  *something*.
> >  About phones, I think bootstrap has something, I'll give it a try.
> > 
> >  On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have
> some
> > > basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases
> > > descriptions. We make them cross-linked and 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Vlad Mihalcea]

Hi,

To be able to load the User Guide like this:

https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2


we have two options:

1. Either we rename the User Guide to index.adoc so that it will become
index.html.
2. We leave it as-is, but when we copy the docs to JBoss, we also copy the
User Guide as index.html as well. This will allow our users to retain
bookmarks they've created since we published the new User Guide.

Let me know which one do you prefer.
Vlad

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 3:34 PM, Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> Yoann,
>
> First thanks for the work on this.  I think it looks worlds better.  A few
> minor things:
>
>
>1. Not sure of the source for this, but can we fix these doc link for
>5.2 from `
>https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/stable/orm/userguide/html_single/
> Hibernate_User_Guide.html`
>to `https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2`?  Also, why https?  Not
>sure it matters, just found it odd
>2. Much of the information on that ORM releases page is, in turn,
>version/series specific.  Any reason why those pieces of information are
>not part of the series?  Either in the synopsis on the releases page or
> on
>the specific series page, or both.  Specifically
>   1. "Compatibility Matrix" - the fact that its a table based on series
>   is a good indicator it is all series specific ;)
>   2. "Maven Repository" - I'd personally prefer to have this as part of
>   the series info
>3. I think the individual series pages are missing a key piece of
>information... the "synopsis" of that series.  I guess partially this
> fits
>under "what's new"
>
> Other than these minor things I love it.  Great job!
>
> P.S. another question is whether (and if so, how) to apply the same
> treatment to the Documentation info in terms of the nav links.
>
> On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 7:05 AM Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>
> > I polished the changes, applied them to all projects (ORM, OGM,
> Validator,
> > Search), and sent a PR:
> > https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate.org/pull/126
> > Could you guys review it? Mainly I'd need one person per project to check
> > they agree with the changes, especially in their project's section.
> > Also, there's still a bit of work to do for each project, mainly filling
> > in missing metadata (see the PR).
> >
> > Yoann Rodière
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yo...@hibernate.org
> >
> > On 14 September 2017 at 10:38, Emmanuel Bernard 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> On Wed 17-09-13 10:55, Sanne Grinovero wrote:
> >>
> >>> On 13 September 2017 at 10:51, Yoann Rodiere 
> >>> wrote:
> >>>
>  It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should
> I
> > scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with
> > version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit.
> >
> 
> 
>  At least versions are in desc order :D
>  More seriously, I was more worried about the number of dependencies
> than
>  about the number of series. We don't want to maintain a hundred
>  branches, so
>  we'll probably try to keep the number of series to a minimum, but we
> do
>  want
>  to offer as much as possible to users, so we may offer many different
>  integrations, and thus many different dependencies. Just think if the
>  ORM
>  team wants to display supported versions of each DBMS... So I thought
>  showing versions horizontally would be more future-proof.
>  I'll try to add horizontal scrolling to the table. The oldest releases
>  may
>  not be displayed, but then those are not the one we want to advertise,
>  so...
>  And in any case, we have limited horizontal space, so we have to hide
>  *something*.
>  About phones, I think bootstrap has something, I'll give it a try.
> 
>  On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some
> > basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases
> > descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy?
> >
> 
> 
>  Sure, we can do that. But the "downloads" page will essentially be a
>  stripped-down version of the "releases" page.
> 
> >>>
> >>> +1 since maintenance is automated I see no problem with a little
> >>> redundancy.
> >>>
> >>
> >> I'm not sure two pages is really solving the problem. It looks like you
> >> don't want to make a choice. But I don't have a pro/con opinion.
> >> My real concern is since you will have two pages, what's the navigation
> >> logic? How do you reach each on of these pages?
> >>
> >> Just thinking out loud here but I think the one way to solve long
> >> standing Steve objective is indeed to have per series sections of the
> >> website (including download, documentation, migration guide)
> >> And a top nav for "latest/promoted" releases (like we have today
> >> 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Steve Ebersole]

Yoann,

First thanks for the work on this.  I think it looks worlds better.  A few
minor things:


   1. Not sure of the source for this, but can we fix these doc link for
   5.2 from `
   
https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/stable/orm/userguide/html_single/Hibernate_User_Guide.html`
   to `https://docs.jboss.org/hibernate/orm/5.2`?  Also, why https?  Not
   sure it matters, just found it odd
   2. Much of the information on that ORM releases page is, in turn,
   version/series specific.  Any reason why those pieces of information are
   not part of the series?  Either in the synopsis on the releases page or on
   the specific series page, or both.  Specifically
  1. "Compatibility Matrix" - the fact that its a table based on series
  is a good indicator it is all series specific ;)
  2. "Maven Repository" - I'd personally prefer to have this as part of
  the series info
   3. I think the individual series pages are missing a key piece of
   information... the "synopsis" of that series.  I guess partially this fits
   under "what's new"

Other than these minor things I love it.  Great job!

P.S. another question is whether (and if so, how) to apply the same
treatment to the Documentation info in terms of the nav links.

On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 7:05 AM Yoann Rodiere  wrote:

> I polished the changes, applied them to all projects (ORM, OGM, Validator,
> Search), and sent a PR:
> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate.org/pull/126
> Could you guys review it? Mainly I'd need one person per project to check
> they agree with the changes, especially in their project's section.
> Also, there's still a bit of work to do for each project, mainly filling
> in missing metadata (see the PR).
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
> On 14 September 2017 at 10:38, Emmanuel Bernard 
> wrote:
>
>> On Wed 17-09-13 10:55, Sanne Grinovero wrote:
>>
>>> On 13 September 2017 at 10:51, Yoann Rodiere 
>>> wrote:
>>>
 It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should I
> scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with
> version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit.
>


 At least versions are in desc order :D
 More seriously, I was more worried about the number of dependencies than
 about the number of series. We don't want to maintain a hundred
 branches, so
 we'll probably try to keep the number of series to a minimum, but we do
 want
 to offer as much as possible to users, so we may offer many different
 integrations, and thus many different dependencies. Just think if the
 ORM
 team wants to display supported versions of each DBMS... So I thought
 showing versions horizontally would be more future-proof.
 I'll try to add horizontal scrolling to the table. The oldest releases
 may
 not be displayed, but then those are not the one we want to advertise,
 so...
 And in any case, we have limited horizontal space, so we have to hide
 *something*.
 About phones, I think bootstrap has something, I'll give it a try.

 On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some
> basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases
> descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy?
>


 Sure, we can do that. But the "downloads" page will essentially be a
 stripped-down version of the "releases" page.

>>>
>>> +1 since maintenance is automated I see no problem with a little
>>> redundancy.
>>>
>>
>> I'm not sure two pages is really solving the problem. It looks like you
>> don't want to make a choice. But I don't have a pro/con opinion.
>> My real concern is since you will have two pages, what's the navigation
>> logic? How do you reach each on of these pages?
>>
>> Just thinking out loud here but I think the one way to solve long
>> standing Steve objective is indeed to have per series sections of the
>> website (including download, documentation, migration guide)
>> And a top nav for "latest/promoted" releases (like we have today
>> really).
>> How do you merge the two navigation wise is what I don't know.
>> This is for later work anyways.
>>
>
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

I polished the changes, applied them to all projects (ORM, OGM, Validator,
Search), and sent a PR: https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate.org/pull/126
Could you guys review it? Mainly I'd need one person per project to check
they agree with the changes, especially in their project's section.
Also, there's still a bit of work to do for each project, mainly filling in
missing metadata (see the PR).

Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 14 September 2017 at 10:38, Emmanuel Bernard 
wrote:

> On Wed 17-09-13 10:55, Sanne Grinovero wrote:
>
>> On 13 September 2017 at 10:51, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>>
>>> It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should I
 scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with
 version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit.

>>>
>>>
>>> At least versions are in desc order :D
>>> More seriously, I was more worried about the number of dependencies than
>>> about the number of series. We don't want to maintain a hundred
>>> branches, so
>>> we'll probably try to keep the number of series to a minimum, but we do
>>> want
>>> to offer as much as possible to users, so we may offer many different
>>> integrations, and thus many different dependencies. Just think if the ORM
>>> team wants to display supported versions of each DBMS... So I thought
>>> showing versions horizontally would be more future-proof.
>>> I'll try to add horizontal scrolling to the table. The oldest releases
>>> may
>>> not be displayed, but then those are not the one we want to advertise,
>>> so...
>>> And in any case, we have limited horizontal space, so we have to hide
>>> *something*.
>>> About phones, I think bootstrap has something, I'll give it a try.
>>>
>>> On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some
 basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases
 descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy?

>>>
>>>
>>> Sure, we can do that. But the "downloads" page will essentially be a
>>> stripped-down version of the "releases" page.
>>>
>>
>> +1 since maintenance is automated I see no problem with a little
>> redundancy.
>>
>
> I'm not sure two pages is really solving the problem. It looks like you
> don't want to make a choice. But I don't have a pro/con opinion.
> My real concern is since you will have two pages, what's the navigation
> logic? How do you reach each on of these pages?
>
> Just thinking out loud here but I think the one way to solve long
> standing Steve objective is indeed to have per series sections of the
> website (including download, documentation, migration guide)
> And a top nav for "latest/promoted" releases (like we have today
> really).
> How do you merge the two navigation wise is what I don't know.
> This is for later work anyways.
>
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Emmanuel Bernard]

On Wed 17-09-13 10:55, Sanne Grinovero wrote:
>On 13 September 2017 at 10:51, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>>> It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should I
>>> scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with
>>> version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit.
>>
>>
>> At least versions are in desc order :D
>> More seriously, I was more worried about the number of dependencies than
>> about the number of series. We don't want to maintain a hundred branches, so
>> we'll probably try to keep the number of series to a minimum, but we do want
>> to offer as much as possible to users, so we may offer many different
>> integrations, and thus many different dependencies. Just think if the ORM
>> team wants to display supported versions of each DBMS... So I thought
>> showing versions horizontally would be more future-proof.
>> I'll try to add horizontal scrolling to the table. The oldest releases may
>> not be displayed, but then those are not the one we want to advertise, so...
>> And in any case, we have limited horizontal space, so we have to hide
>> *something*.
>> About phones, I think bootstrap has something, I'll give it a try.
>>
>>> On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some
>>> basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases
>>> descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy?
>>
>>
>> Sure, we can do that. But the "downloads" page will essentially be a
>> stripped-down version of the "releases" page.
>
>+1 since maintenance is automated I see no problem with a little redundancy.

I'm not sure two pages is really solving the problem. It looks like you
don't want to make a choice. But I don't have a pro/con opinion.
My real concern is since you will have two pages, what's the navigation
logic? How do you reach each on of these pages?

Just thinking out loud here but I think the one way to solve long
standing Steve objective is indeed to have per series sections of the
website (including download, documentation, migration guide)
And a top nav for "latest/promoted" releases (like we have today
really).
How do you merge the two navigation wise is what I don't know.
This is for later work anyways.
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 13 September 2017 at 10:51, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>> It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should I
>> scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with
>> version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit.
>
>
> At least versions are in desc order :D
> More seriously, I was more worried about the number of dependencies than
> about the number of series. We don't want to maintain a hundred branches, so
> we'll probably try to keep the number of series to a minimum, but we do want
> to offer as much as possible to users, so we may offer many different
> integrations, and thus many different dependencies. Just think if the ORM
> team wants to display supported versions of each DBMS... So I thought
> showing versions horizontally would be more future-proof.
> I'll try to add horizontal scrolling to the table. The oldest releases may
> not be displayed, but then those are not the one we want to advertise, so...
> And in any case, we have limited horizontal space, so we have to hide
> *something*.
> About phones, I think bootstrap has something, I'll give it a try.
>
>> On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some
>> basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases
>> descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy?
>
>
> Sure, we can do that. But the "downloads" page will essentially be a
> stripped-down version of the "releases" page.

+1 since maintenance is automated I see no problem with a little redundancy.

>
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
> On 13 September 2017 at 11:48, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:
>>
>> On 13 September 2017 at 10:41, Emmanuel Bernard 
>> wrote:
>> > On Tue 17-09-12 13:50, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>>
>> >>> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X
>> >>>  is a question we want addressed from the top level menus
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Always amazed that there's still people out there actually downloading
>> >> JARs
>> >> manually. But yes, we shouldn't forget about them.
>> >>
>> >> My problem with "downloads" is that, while it conveys the correct
>> >> meaning
>> >> for the minority (I hope) of users not using Maven/Gradle, it's really
>> >> not
>> >> appropriate as an entry point to pages giving information about
>> >> series/releases.
>> >> Let's put it that way:
>> >>
>> >>   - To a user looking for info about a particular release (maven GAV,
>> >>   changelog, ...) , a "download" entry isn't even remotely relevant
>> >>   - To a user looking to download packages, a "releases" entry does
>> >> seem a
>> >>   bit relevant
>> >
>> >
>> > You are right on principle. But if you look around, pretty much all
>> > software websites have a download button leading to a page where you can
>> > find releases, changelog etc. People are trained.
>> >
>> > http://kafka.apache.org/downloads
>> > http://struts.apache.org/download.cgi#struts2513
>> > http://vertx.io/download/
>> >
>> >
>> > Spring is the exception but they have one big page for everything per
>> > project. Not what we want.
>> > And GitHub which has Releases https://github.com/google/guava
>> >
>> > I'm still not recovered from GitHub's move from Downloads to Releases to
>> > be honest.
>> >
>> > If everyone thinks Releases is clearer and more intuitive, I won't
>> > block.
>>
>>  - having a "Downloads" link is essential
>>  - having a "Releases" page is what we think is more useful, for many
>> good reasons
>>
>> Yet we agree they are slightly different in nature. Could we ride the
>> differences and generate them both?
>>
>> Especially "Releases" could be a good home for all older releases and
>> the "Past Roadmaps" which Emmanuel suggested before we should have,
>> yet I said they don't belong on "Roadmap".
>> On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some
>> basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases
>> descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sanne
>>
>>
>> >
>> >>
>> >> But if you really want a "download" entry in the menu... would it be
>> >> okay
>> >> if it just redirected to the "releases" page? I'll do that for now.
>> >>
>> >> - if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect
>> >>>
>> >>>  rules not to break URLs
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> I already did. Redirects don't seem to work locally for some reason,
>> >> though. They work on staging.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you
>> >>>  proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Steve found "latest releases" "confusing" (if I understood correctly).
>> >> I
>> >> changed it to "Series" as you suggested.
>> >>
>> >>
>> >>> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each
>> >>> individual
>> >>>  series page.
>> >>>
>> >>
>> >> Done.

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

>
> It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should I
> scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with
> version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit.


At least versions are in desc order :D
More seriously, I was more worried about the number of dependencies than
about the number of series. We don't want to maintain a hundred branches,
so we'll probably try to keep the number of series to a minimum, but we do
want to offer as much as possible to users, so we may offer many different
integrations, and thus many different dependencies. Just think if the ORM
team wants to display supported versions of each DBMS... So I thought
showing versions horizontally would be more future-proof.
I'll try to add horizontal scrolling to the table. The oldest releases may
not be displayed, but then those are not the one we want to advertise,
so... And in any case, we have limited horizontal space, so we have to hide
*something*.
About phones, I think bootstrap has something, I'll give it a try.

On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some
> basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases
> descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy?


Sure, we can do that. But the "downloads" page will essentially be a
stripped-down version of the "releases" page.


Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 13 September 2017 at 11:48, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> On 13 September 2017 at 10:41, Emmanuel Bernard 
> wrote:
> > On Tue 17-09-12 13:50, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
> >>>
> >>>
> >>> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X
> >>>  is a question we want addressed from the top level menus
> >>>
> >>
> >> Always amazed that there's still people out there actually downloading
> >> JARs
> >> manually. But yes, we shouldn't forget about them.
> >>
> >> My problem with "downloads" is that, while it conveys the correct
> meaning
> >> for the minority (I hope) of users not using Maven/Gradle, it's really
> not
> >> appropriate as an entry point to pages giving information about
> >> series/releases.
> >> Let's put it that way:
> >>
> >>   - To a user looking for info about a particular release (maven GAV,
> >>   changelog, ...) , a "download" entry isn't even remotely relevant
> >>   - To a user looking to download packages, a "releases" entry does
> seem a
> >>   bit relevant
> >
> >
> > You are right on principle. But if you look around, pretty much all
> > software websites have a download button leading to a page where you can
> > find releases, changelog etc. People are trained.
> >
> > http://kafka.apache.org/downloads
> > http://struts.apache.org/download.cgi#struts2513
> > http://vertx.io/download/
> >
> >
> > Spring is the exception but they have one big page for everything per
> > project. Not what we want.
> > And GitHub which has Releases https://github.com/google/guava
> >
> > I'm still not recovered from GitHub's move from Downloads to Releases to
> > be honest.
> >
> > If everyone thinks Releases is clearer and more intuitive, I won't
> > block.
>
>  - having a "Downloads" link is essential
>  - having a "Releases" page is what we think is more useful, for many
> good reasons
>
> Yet we agree they are slightly different in nature. Could we ride the
> differences and generate them both?
>
> Especially "Releases" could be a good home for all older releases and
> the "Past Roadmaps" which Emmanuel suggested before we should have,
> yet I said they don't belong on "Roadmap".
> On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some
> basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases
> descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy?
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
>
>
> >
> >>
> >> But if you really want a "download" entry in the menu... would it be
> okay
> >> if it just redirected to the "releases" page? I'll do that for now.
> >>
> >> - if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect
> >>>
> >>>  rules not to break URLs
> >>>
> >>
> >> I already did. Redirects don't seem to work locally for some reason,
> >> though. They work on staging.
> >>
> >>
> >>> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you
> >>>  proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series
> >>>
> >>
> >> Steve found "latest releases" "confusing" (if I understood correctly). I
> >> changed it to "Series" as you suggested.
> >>
> >>
> >>> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each
> individual
> >>>  series page.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Done.
> >>
> >>
> >>> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions.
> >>>
> >>
> >> Could you be more specific? Is it that you're having trouble finding out
> >> which cell relates to which HSearch version, or which cell relates to
> >> which
> >> dependency, or about the size of columns not being the same, or... 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Emmanuel Bernard]

On Tue 17-09-12 13:50, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
>>
>> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X
>>  is a question we want addressed from the top level menus
>>
>
>Always amazed that there's still people out there actually downloading JARs
>manually. But yes, we shouldn't forget about them.
>
>My problem with "downloads" is that, while it conveys the correct meaning
>for the minority (I hope) of users not using Maven/Gradle, it's really not
>appropriate as an entry point to pages giving information about
>series/releases.
>Let's put it that way:
>
>   - To a user looking for info about a particular release (maven GAV,
>   changelog, ...) , a "download" entry isn't even remotely relevant
>   - To a user looking to download packages, a "releases" entry does seem a
>   bit relevant

You are right on principle. But if you look around, pretty much all
software websites have a download button leading to a page where you can
find releases, changelog etc. People are trained.

http://kafka.apache.org/downloads
http://struts.apache.org/download.cgi#struts2513
http://vertx.io/download/


Spring is the exception but they have one big page for everything per
project. Not what we want.
And GitHub which has Releases https://github.com/google/guava

I'm still not recovered from GitHub's move from Downloads to Releases to
be honest.

If everyone thinks Releases is clearer and more intuitive, I won't
block.

>
>But if you really want a "download" entry in the menu... would it be okay
>if it just redirected to the "releases" page? I'll do that for now.
>
>- if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect
>>  rules not to break URLs
>>
>
>I already did. Redirects don't seem to work locally for some reason,
>though. They work on staging.
>
>
>> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you
>>  proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series
>>
>
>Steve found "latest releases" "confusing" (if I understood correctly). I
>changed it to "Series" as you suggested.
>
>
>> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each individual
>>  series page.
>>
>
>Done.
>
>
>> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions.
>>
>
>Could you be more specific? Is it that you're having trouble finding out
>which cell relates to which HSearch version, or which cell relates to which
>dependency, or about the size of columns not being the same, or... ? I'd
>rather know exactly what's wrong before trying to mess with the CSS,
>because solutions to each of these problems will probably require to use
>more horizontal space, and as you can see we don't have that much available.

It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should I
scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with
version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit.

It does not work well on phones either.


>
>
>> - in the dedicated series page, "Reference" is confusing, I'd probably
>>  replace it with documentation or main documentation
>
>
>Done.
>
>Since there seems to be a general agreement that it's not worse than it
>used to be, I'll send a PR soon. We can continue the discussion there.
>
>
>
>Yoann Rodière
>Hibernate NoORM Team
>yo...@hibernate.org
>
>On 11 September 2017 at 15:54, Emmanuel Bernard 
>wrote:
>
>> Hey Yoann and all,
>>
>> Thanks Yoann for stepping up. This is definitely much better.
>> Here are non ordered comments:
>>
>> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X
>>  is a question we want addressed from the top level menus
>> - if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect
>>  rules not to break URLs
>> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you
>>  proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series
>> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each individual
>>  series page.
>> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions.
>> - in the dedicated series page, "Reference" is confusing, I'd probably
>>  replace it with documentation or main documentation
>>
>> Emmanuel
>>
>> On Fri 17-09-08 14:53, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
>>
>>> Hey,
>>>
>>> I pushed an update to staging. I only converted the "Search" part for now.
>>> What changes:
>>>
>>>   - The _data folder structured changed a bit, so that we can introduces a
>>>   YAML file for each series (5.5, 5.6, 5.6, 5.8, ...), containing a
>>> summary
>>>   of this series and a list of integration constraints (ORM > 5.2, etc.)
>>>   - The "Downloads" page is renamed to "Releases", since, well, it's about
>>>   more than just downloads. See
>>>   http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/
>>>   - The "Releases" page now includes a "Compatibilty matrix" section based
>>>   on the new data I mentioned above
>>>   - The "Releases" page now includes links to one page for each series
>>>   ("More on the 5.8 series")
>>>   - There 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 13 September 2017 at 10:41, Emmanuel Bernard  wrote:
> On Tue 17-09-12 13:50, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X
>>>  is a question we want addressed from the top level menus
>>>
>>
>> Always amazed that there's still people out there actually downloading
>> JARs
>> manually. But yes, we shouldn't forget about them.
>>
>> My problem with "downloads" is that, while it conveys the correct meaning
>> for the minority (I hope) of users not using Maven/Gradle, it's really not
>> appropriate as an entry point to pages giving information about
>> series/releases.
>> Let's put it that way:
>>
>>   - To a user looking for info about a particular release (maven GAV,
>>   changelog, ...) , a "download" entry isn't even remotely relevant
>>   - To a user looking to download packages, a "releases" entry does seem a
>>   bit relevant
>
>
> You are right on principle. But if you look around, pretty much all
> software websites have a download button leading to a page where you can
> find releases, changelog etc. People are trained.
>
> http://kafka.apache.org/downloads
> http://struts.apache.org/download.cgi#struts2513
> http://vertx.io/download/
>
>
> Spring is the exception but they have one big page for everything per
> project. Not what we want.
> And GitHub which has Releases https://github.com/google/guava
>
> I'm still not recovered from GitHub's move from Downloads to Releases to
> be honest.
>
> If everyone thinks Releases is clearer and more intuitive, I won't
> block.

 - having a "Downloads" link is essential
 - having a "Releases" page is what we think is more useful, for many
good reasons

Yet we agree they are slightly different in nature. Could we ride the
differences and generate them both?

Especially "Releases" could be a good home for all older releases and
the "Past Roadmaps" which Emmanuel suggested before we should have,
yet I said they don't belong on "Roadmap".
On "Downloads" we only want to promote the active branches; have some
basic series descriptions but way more ecclectic than the releases
descriptions. We make them cross-linked and everyone is happy?

Thanks,
Sanne


>
>>
>> But if you really want a "download" entry in the menu... would it be okay
>> if it just redirected to the "releases" page? I'll do that for now.
>>
>> - if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect
>>>
>>>  rules not to break URLs
>>>
>>
>> I already did. Redirects don't seem to work locally for some reason,
>> though. They work on staging.
>>
>>
>>> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you
>>>  proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series
>>>
>>
>> Steve found "latest releases" "confusing" (if I understood correctly). I
>> changed it to "Series" as you suggested.
>>
>>
>>> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each individual
>>>  series page.
>>>
>>
>> Done.
>>
>>
>>> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions.
>>>
>>
>> Could you be more specific? Is it that you're having trouble finding out
>> which cell relates to which HSearch version, or which cell relates to
>> which
>> dependency, or about the size of columns not being the same, or... ? I'd
>> rather know exactly what's wrong before trying to mess with the CSS,
>> because solutions to each of these problems will probably require to use
>> more horizontal space, and as you can see we don't have that much
>> available.
>
>
> It's more the number of columns, what if you add more version, should I
> scroll horizontally? Also releeases tend to be shown vertically with
> version in desc order. This model breaks a bit this habit.
>
> It does not work well on phones either.
>
>
>
>>
>>
>>> - in the dedicated series page, "Reference" is confusing, I'd probably
>>>  replace it with documentation or main documentation
>>
>>
>>
>> Done.
>>
>> Since there seems to be a general agreement that it's not worse than it
>> used to be, I'll send a PR soon. We can continue the discussion there.
>>
>>
>>
>> Yoann Rodière
>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>> yo...@hibernate.org
>>
>> On 11 September 2017 at 15:54, Emmanuel Bernard 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Hey Yoann and all,
>>>
>>> Thanks Yoann for stepping up. This is definitely much better.
>>> Here are non ordered comments:
>>>
>>> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X
>>>  is a question we want addressed from the top level menus
>>> - if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect
>>>  rules not to break URLs
>>> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you
>>>  proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series
>>> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each individual
>>>  series page.
>>> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions.
>>> - in the dedicated series page, "Reference" is 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

>
> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X
>  is a question we want addressed from the top level menus
>

Always amazed that there's still people out there actually downloading JARs
manually. But yes, we shouldn't forget about them.

My problem with "downloads" is that, while it conveys the correct meaning
for the minority (I hope) of users not using Maven/Gradle, it's really not
appropriate as an entry point to pages giving information about
series/releases.
Let's put it that way:

   - To a user looking for info about a particular release (maven GAV,
   changelog, ...) , a "download" entry isn't even remotely relevant
   - To a user looking to download packages, a "releases" entry does seem a
   bit relevant

But if you really want a "download" entry in the menu... would it be okay
if it just redirected to the "releases" page? I'll do that for now.

- if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect
>  rules not to break URLs
>

I already did. Redirects don't seem to work locally for some reason,
though. They work on staging.


> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you
>  proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series
>

Steve found "latest releases" "confusing" (if I understood correctly). I
changed it to "Series" as you suggested.


> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each individual
>  series page.
>

Done.


> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions.
>

Could you be more specific? Is it that you're having trouble finding out
which cell relates to which HSearch version, or which cell relates to which
dependency, or about the size of columns not being the same, or... ? I'd
rather know exactly what's wrong before trying to mess with the CSS,
because solutions to each of these problems will probably require to use
more horizontal space, and as you can see we don't have that much available.


> - in the dedicated series page, "Reference" is confusing, I'd probably
>  replace it with documentation or main documentation


Done.

Since there seems to be a general agreement that it's not worse than it
used to be, I'll send a PR soon. We can continue the discussion there.



Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 11 September 2017 at 15:54, Emmanuel Bernard 
wrote:

> Hey Yoann and all,
>
> Thanks Yoann for stepping up. This is definitely much better.
> Here are non ordered comments:
>
> - Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X
>  is a question we want addressed from the top level menus
> - if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect
>  rules not to break URLs
> - I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you
>  proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series
> - The migration guide should probably be referenced from each individual
>  series page.
> - the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions.
> - in the dedicated series page, "Reference" is confusing, I'd probably
>  replace it with documentation or main documentation
>
> Emmanuel
>
> On Fri 17-09-08 14:53, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
>
>> Hey,
>>
>> I pushed an update to staging. I only converted the "Search" part for now.
>> What changes:
>>
>>   - The _data folder structured changed a bit, so that we can introduces a
>>   YAML file for each series (5.5, 5.6, 5.6, 5.8, ...), containing a
>> summary
>>   of this series and a list of integration constraints (ORM > 5.2, etc.)
>>   - The "Downloads" page is renamed to "Releases", since, well, it's about
>>   more than just downloads. See
>>   http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/
>>   - The "Releases" page now includes a "Compatibilty matrix" section based
>>   on the new data I mentioned above
>>   - The "Releases" page now includes links to one page for each series
>>   ("More on the 5.8 series")
>>   - There is now one page for each series (see
>>   http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/series/5.8/). This page
>>   includes:
>>  - A short (one-line) summary of this series
>>  - A reminder of the integration constraints for this series
>>  - A section about the main changes in this release. I only wrote
>>  something for the 5.8 series for now, and I basically
>> copy/pasted sections
>>  from various blog posts.
>>  - A list of all releases in this series.
>>
>> What I didn't do, but could make sense:
>>
>>   - add a sub-menu element under "Releases" for each series
>>   - link to the documentation for each of the latest releases from the
>>   "Releases" page
>>   - link to the latest documentation and to the migration guides from each
>>   series' page
>>
>> What do you all think? Emmanuel, would this address your concerns? Steve,
>> would this be a good fit for ORM?
>>
>> Yoann Rodière
>> Hibernate NoORM Team
>> yo...@hibernate.org
>>
>> On 6 September 2017 at 17:16, Steve Ebersole 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Emmanuel Bernard]

Hey Yoann and all,

Thanks Yoann for stepping up. This is definitely much better.
Here are non ordered comments:

- Releases speaks less than downloads, Where do I download Hibernate X
  is a question we want addressed from the top level menus
- if you do downloads -> releases, you need to also write some redirect
  rules not to break URLs
- I don't like the term maintained much, I think latest like you
  proposed makes it more neutral. You could even just name them Series
- The migration guide should probably be referenced from each individual
  series page.
- the matrix does not scale very well to that many versions.
- in the dedicated series page, "Reference" is confusing, I'd probably
  replace it with documentation or main documentation

Emmanuel

On Fri 17-09-08 14:53, Yoann Rodiere wrote:
>Hey,
>
>I pushed an update to staging. I only converted the "Search" part for now.
>What changes:
>
>   - The _data folder structured changed a bit, so that we can introduces a
>   YAML file for each series (5.5, 5.6, 5.6, 5.8, ...), containing a summary
>   of this series and a list of integration constraints (ORM > 5.2, etc.)
>   - The "Downloads" page is renamed to "Releases", since, well, it's about
>   more than just downloads. See
>   http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/
>   - The "Releases" page now includes a "Compatibilty matrix" section based
>   on the new data I mentioned above
>   - The "Releases" page now includes links to one page for each series
>   ("More on the 5.8 series")
>   - There is now one page for each series (see
>   http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/series/5.8/). This page
>   includes:
>  - A short (one-line) summary of this series
>  - A reminder of the integration constraints for this series
>  - A section about the main changes in this release. I only wrote
>  something for the 5.8 series for now, and I basically
>copy/pasted sections
>  from various blog posts.
>  - A list of all releases in this series.
>
>What I didn't do, but could make sense:
>
>   - add a sub-menu element under "Releases" for each series
>   - link to the documentation for each of the latest releases from the
>   "Releases" page
>   - link to the latest documentation and to the migration guides from each
>   series' page
>
>What do you all think? Emmanuel, would this address your concerns? Steve,
>would this be a good fit for ORM?
>
>Yoann Rodière
>Hibernate NoORM Team
>yo...@hibernate.org
>
>On 6 September 2017 at 17:16, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
>
>> This is something I brought up ages ago wrt ORM.  I wanted something
>> (although ideally integrated with the "more version friendly"
>> hibernate.org design) similar to what I did atm on the ORM GitHub wiki.
>> For example, for 5.2 we have:
>>
>>
>>- https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Roadmap5.2
>>- https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Migration-Guide---5.2
>>- https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/ReleaseNotes5.2
>>
>>
>> The format could be better and some of this information could be combined
>> (release notes and migration guide e.g.).  But bear in mind that this was
>> just what I put together to illustrate what I was wanted to do, generally
>> speaking - so its a bit "rough"
>>
>>
>> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:17 AM Sanne Grinovero 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks for that Emmanuel.
>>>
>>> I'll fix the one-liner describing the release, I believe we had
>>> already noticed this in the past: they need to describe the whole
>>> minor not the micro update.
>>> The Search roadmap actually also needs a little re-touch, I'll propose
>>> a PR for that too.
>>>
>>> Regarding past roadmaps: I don't like to clutter the roadmap page with
>>> the previous copies, especially as they should have a different nature
>>> of not being a plan but being a record of what was actually done.
>>> Also, we did agree in past meetings to remove all the old ones. e.g.
>>> we never ported the release notes for version 3.x and 4.x as back then
>>> we decided this was no place for that. Happy to revisit this decision
>>> but let's separate them:
>>>
>>> What about a "past releases" page at the same level of roadmap, and
>>> linking to it both from the main Search menu and the roadmap?
>>>
>>> +1 for Yoann's proposal to re-introduce the compatibility matrix
>>> (there was one ~6 years ago). I also had proposed to reintroduce it
>>> more recently, and was not done on the grounds that it gets out of
>>> date quickly.
>>> Still users badly need it so unless someone has a better idea, let's
>>> agree on trying to keep it up to date manually. Let's try structure it
>>> in such a way that it won't need to be updated for every single
>>> release.
>>>
>>> Thanks,
>>> Sanne
>>>
>>>
>>> On 6 September 2017 at 08:37, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>>> > Hey,
>>> >
>>> > About Search, true, the information is somewhat hidden in many blog
>>> posts.
>>> > I'm not sure 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

On 8 September 2017 at 14:46, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
> Sanne, I addressed both your comments. Is it better?

I love it, definitely a step forward!
But we'll need to find some compromise with the requirements of the
other projects - e.g. Steve's feedback - :  it should be consistent
across them for people to not get confused.

Minor nitpicking: the compatibility matrix isn't very visible when we
have >=4 releases.

> I also addressed Guillaume's comment on HipChat, and made the compatibility
> matrix a bit... fuzzier, so that we won't have to update it as often. We can
> still make it very specific if we want to, but we won't be limited by the
> layout anymore.
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
> On 8 September 2017 at 15:11, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:
>>
>> Thanks Yoann!
>> Looks great.
>>
>> Two minor suggestions:
>>  - could the two links we have for each release on search/releases/ on
>> two separate lines? Or something else to make it clear that there are
>> two linkes.
>>  - Regarding the "Compatibility matrix", the header line (the one in
>> black) .. I think we need to clarify in some way that you're referring
>> to Hibernate Search releases. Possibly just link to the page
>> describing the family?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sanne
>>
>>
>> On 8 September 2017 at 13:53, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>> > Hey,
>> >
>> > I pushed an update to staging. I only converted the "Search" part for
>> > now.
>> > What changes:
>> >
>> > The _data folder structured changed a bit, so that we can introduces a
>> > YAML
>> > file for each series (5.5, 5.6, 5.6, 5.8, ...), containing a summary of
>> > this
>> > series and a list of integration constraints (ORM > 5.2, etc.)
>> > The "Downloads" page is renamed to "Releases", since, well, it's about
>> > more
>> > than just downloads. See http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/
>> > The "Releases" page now includes a "Compatibilty matrix" section based
>> > on
>> > the new data I mentioned above
>> > The "Releases" page now includes links to one page for each series
>> > ("More on
>> > the 5.8 series")
>> > There is now one page for each series (see
>> > http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/series/5.8/). This page
>> > includes:
>> >
>> > A short (one-line) summary of this series
>> > A reminder of the integration constraints for this series
>> > A section about the main changes in this release. I only wrote something
>> > for
>> > the 5.8 series for now, and I basically copy/pasted sections from
>> > various
>> > blog posts.
>> > A list of all releases in this series.
>> >
>> > What I didn't do, but could make sense:
>> >
>> > add a sub-menu element under "Releases" for each series
>> > link to the documentation for each of the latest releases from the
>> > "Releases" page
>> > link to the latest documentation and to the migration guides from each
>> > series' page
>> >
>> > What do you all think? Emmanuel, would this address your concerns?
>> > Steve,
>> > would this be a good fit for ORM?
>> >
>> > Yoann Rodière
>> > Hibernate NoORM Team
>> > yo...@hibernate.org
>> >
>> > On 6 September 2017 at 17:16, Steve Ebersole 
>> > wrote:
>> >>
>> >> This is something I brought up ages ago wrt ORM.  I wanted something
>> >> (although ideally integrated with the "more version friendly"
>> >> hibernate.org
>> >> design) similar to what I did atm on the ORM GitHub wiki.  For example,
>> >> for
>> >> 5.2 we have:
>> >>
>> >> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Roadmap5.2
>> >> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Migration-Guide---5.2
>> >> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/ReleaseNotes5.2
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> The format could be better and some of this information could be
>> >> combined
>> >> (release notes and migration guide e.g.).  But bear in mind that this
>> >> was
>> >> just what I put together to illustrate what I was wanted to do,
>> >> generally
>> >> speaking - so its a bit "rough"
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:17 AM Sanne Grinovero 
>> >> wrote:
>> >>>
>> >>> Thanks for that Emmanuel.
>> >>>
>> >>> I'll fix the one-liner describing the release, I believe we had
>> >>> already noticed this in the past: they need to describe the whole
>> >>> minor not the micro update.
>> >>> The Search roadmap actually also needs a little re-touch, I'll propose
>> >>> a PR for that too.
>> >>>
>> >>> Regarding past roadmaps: I don't like to clutter the roadmap page with
>> >>> the previous copies, especially as they should have a different nature
>> >>> of not being a plan but being a record of what was actually done.
>> >>> Also, we did agree in past meetings to remove all the old ones. e.g.
>> >>> we never ported the release notes for version 3.x and 4.x as back then
>> >>> we decided this was no place for that. Happy to revisit this decision
>> >>> but let's separate them:
>> >>>
>> >>> What about a "past 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

Following Steve's comments, I made another few changes for the sake of
usability:

   - Moved the series-specific pages so that the path is more consistent
   with ORM documentation; the series-specific page for Search 5.8, for
   instance, is now http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/
   - Changed the list of releases in the "releases" page: renamed "Latest
   releases" to "Maintained series", and made the series version more
   prominent, on the left, while the latest release version is a bit less
   prominent, on the right. That way the list should be a bit less confusing.
   - Added links to the reference from the "Releases" page:
   http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/
   - Added a hero-unit at the top of the series-specific pages, with a few
   links: http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/


Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 8 September 2017 at 16:44, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:

> Steve,
>
> If I understood correctly, the main difference between what I did and what
> you want is you don't want a "hub" pointing to different versions, you want
> to redirect to the page for the latest version, and from there allow to
> move to another version using drop-down.
> While I can understand you'd want that for ORM, I'm not sure it's such a
> good idea for projects such as Search or OGM, where the difference between
> two families is not only about features, but also (and in some cases,
> mainly) about which versions of other components it can integrate with. In
> this case, I'm not sure a drop-down would be enough to guide users to the
> correct version...
>
> As for your other concerns:
>
>- I'll try to add a links to the "documentation" page specific to each
>series, both in the main "releases" page and in each series-specific page.
>- The list of all micro/bugfix releases is already there, at the
>bottom of the page: http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/
>I'll see if I can add some sort of table of contents at the top to
>make it more visible.
>- The link to the full changelog is already there, though maybe it's
>not very visible.
>
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
> On 8 September 2017 at 16:05, Steve Ebersole  wrote:
>
>> For me the real problem is that its not just Downloads/Releases that
>> should be (need to be really) treated in this manner - our documentation is
>> also family specific.
>>
>> So for ORM I had envisioned a "versions" (although "releases" works just
>> as well) component to the url scheme.  Vlad did this for documentation (see
>> the version drop down), but we have not yet tackled this for versions - too
>> many other more pressing tasks.  Also, I am not sure yet the best overall
>> structure for this - some of the project related information is not
>> version-specific (FAQ, Books, Paid Support, etc) while others are.
>>
>> To me personally, I think the "Documentation" and
>> Downloads/Versions/Releases should not be on the left nav.  Or, leave them
>> on the nav and have them implicitly direct to the
>> most-recent-prod-release-family.  But overall I had envisioned a
>> release-specific page - specific to release families (5.0, 5.1, etc) as
>> opposed to specific micro/bugfix releases (5.0.1, 5.0.2, etc).  This
>> release page would include:
>>
>>1. General description - what were the main points or developments
>>for this family?
>>2. Links to its documentation
>>3. List of all micro/bugfix releases as a sort-of simplified
>>changelog.  This part is still unclear in my head as to the best way to
>>represent this information, but ultimately each entry in this list would
>>need to include:
>>   1. announcement URL
>>   2. sysopsis of the main fixes/changes
>>   3. link to the full changelog
>>
>> For the most part, the information I listed for the micro/bugfix release
>> entries is covered in the release announcement so one option is to simply
>> link to each announcement for that family - possibly driven by the release
>> yaml files.
>>
>> This also fixes what I find to be a very confusing list of "latest"
>> releases.  I think that works much better as a single entry on the release
>> family page.
>>
>> Will what you did "work" for ORM?  Sure.  What I describe is just what I
>> personally think would be better in terms of ORM needs, but I have
>> absolutely no resources to do that atm.  So for now, whatever y'all deem is
>> best is probably the best way to go.
>>
>>
>> On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 8:11 AM Sanne Grinovero 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Thanks Yoann!
>>> Looks great.
>>>
>>> Two minor suggestions:
>>>  - could the two links we have for each release on search/releases/ on
>>> two separate lines? Or something else to make it clear that there are
>>> two linkes.
>>>  - Regarding the "Compatibility matrix", the header line (the one in
>>> black) .. I think we need 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Steve Ebersole]

On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 9:45 AM Yoann Rodiere  wrote:

> Steve,
>
> If I understood correctly, the main difference between what I did and what
> you want is you don't want a "hub" pointing to different versions, you want
> to redirect to the page for the latest version, and from there allow to
> move to another version using drop-down.
>

That's not what I was saying.  You can even see that in what the wikis I
pointed to.

I pointed out the drop down to illustrate that this information is all
version-specific (as is release information obviously).  Vlad did it that
way because the way hibernate.org is currently defined made that by far
easier to do this just for ORM.  A real solution (which you are trying)
would require much larger "infrastructure" changes than we have resources
to tackle.  So no, that's not my ideal set up - I've already said that my
ideal set up would be that hibernate.org itself was built to just handle
this because it is true for every multi-release sub-project and its silly
for each sub-project to devise different ways to manage this.  You
obviously thought the same since that is what you are trying to do.

In terms of my ideal, let's look in terms of URLs...  Essentially I want to
move hibernate.org/{project}/documentation and
hibernate.org/{project}/downloads under a "version scheme", so
hibernate.org/{project}/release/{version}.  "version" here means family
(5.0, 5.1, etc).  There would also be 2 extra version related urls:

   1. hibernate.org/{project}/release/latest - latest-stable-release
   2. hibernate.org/orm/release - your "hub", similar to my wikis (
   https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Release-Notes,
   https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Migration-Guides, etc)

What I was saying with redirects is that we'd have the left nav links point
to "hibernate.org/{project}/release/latest".  IMO that matches what most
people would expect.

Each release's page (hibernate.org/orm/release/5.2 e.g.) would contain:

   1. synopsis - the purpose of and high-level changes in the release
   2. links to its documentation
   3. some form of list of its specific micro releases.


I never said your work did or did not have any of these specifics.

As you said, most of this information is currently spread over blog post
announcing the release.
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

Steve,

If I understood correctly, the main difference between what I did and what
you want is you don't want a "hub" pointing to different versions, you want
to redirect to the page for the latest version, and from there allow to
move to another version using drop-down.
While I can understand you'd want that for ORM, I'm not sure it's such a
good idea for projects such as Search or OGM, where the difference between
two families is not only about features, but also (and in some cases,
mainly) about which versions of other components it can integrate with. In
this case, I'm not sure a drop-down would be enough to guide users to the
correct version...

As for your other concerns:

   - I'll try to add a links to the "documentation" page specific to each
   series, both in the main "releases" page and in each series-specific page.
   - The list of all micro/bugfix releases is already there, at the bottom
   of the page: http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/5.8/
   I'll see if I can add some sort of table of contents at the top to make
   it more visible.
   - The link to the full changelog is already there, though maybe it's not
   very visible.


Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 8 September 2017 at 16:05, Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> For me the real problem is that its not just Downloads/Releases that
> should be (need to be really) treated in this manner - our documentation is
> also family specific.
>
> So for ORM I had envisioned a "versions" (although "releases" works just
> as well) component to the url scheme.  Vlad did this for documentation (see
> the version drop down), but we have not yet tackled this for versions - too
> many other more pressing tasks.  Also, I am not sure yet the best overall
> structure for this - some of the project related information is not
> version-specific (FAQ, Books, Paid Support, etc) while others are.
>
> To me personally, I think the "Documentation" and
> Downloads/Versions/Releases should not be on the left nav.  Or, leave them
> on the nav and have them implicitly direct to the 
> most-recent-prod-release-family.
> But overall I had envisioned a release-specific page - specific to release
> families (5.0, 5.1, etc) as opposed to specific micro/bugfix releases
> (5.0.1, 5.0.2, etc).  This release page would include:
>
>1. General description - what were the main points or developments for
>this family?
>2. Links to its documentation
>3. List of all micro/bugfix releases as a sort-of simplified
>changelog.  This part is still unclear in my head as to the best way to
>represent this information, but ultimately each entry in this list would
>need to include:
>   1. announcement URL
>   2. sysopsis of the main fixes/changes
>   3. link to the full changelog
>
> For the most part, the information I listed for the micro/bugfix release
> entries is covered in the release announcement so one option is to simply
> link to each announcement for that family - possibly driven by the release
> yaml files.
>
> This also fixes what I find to be a very confusing list of "latest"
> releases.  I think that works much better as a single entry on the release
> family page.
>
> Will what you did "work" for ORM?  Sure.  What I describe is just what I
> personally think would be better in terms of ORM needs, but I have
> absolutely no resources to do that atm.  So for now, whatever y'all deem is
> best is probably the best way to go.
>
>
> On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 8:11 AM Sanne Grinovero 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks Yoann!
>> Looks great.
>>
>> Two minor suggestions:
>>  - could the two links we have for each release on search/releases/ on
>> two separate lines? Or something else to make it clear that there are
>> two linkes.
>>  - Regarding the "Compatibility matrix", the header line (the one in
>> black) .. I think we need to clarify in some way that you're referring
>> to Hibernate Search releases. Possibly just link to the page
>> describing the family?
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sanne
>>
>>
>> On 8 September 2017 at 13:53, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>> > Hey,
>> >
>> > I pushed an update to staging. I only converted the "Search" part for
>> now.
>> > What changes:
>> >
>> > The _data folder structured changed a bit, so that we can introduces a
>> YAML
>> > file for each series (5.5, 5.6, 5.6, 5.8, ...), containing a summary of
>> this
>> > series and a list of integration constraints (ORM > 5.2, etc.)
>> > The "Downloads" page is renamed to "Releases", since, well, it's about
>> more
>> > than just downloads. See http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/
>> > The "Releases" page now includes a "Compatibilty matrix" section based
>> on
>> > the new data I mentioned above
>> > The "Releases" page now includes links to one page for each series
>> ("More on
>> > the 5.8 series")
>> > There is now one page for each series (see
>> > 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Steve Ebersole]

For me the real problem is that its not just Downloads/Releases that should
be (need to be really) treated in this manner - our documentation is also
family specific.

So for ORM I had envisioned a "versions" (although "releases" works just as
well) component to the url scheme.  Vlad did this for documentation (see
the version drop down), but we have not yet tackled this for versions - too
many other more pressing tasks.  Also, I am not sure yet the best overall
structure for this - some of the project related information is not
version-specific (FAQ, Books, Paid Support, etc) while others are.

To me personally, I think the "Documentation" and
Downloads/Versions/Releases should not be on the left nav.  Or, leave them
on the nav and have them implicitly direct to the
most-recent-prod-release-family.  But overall I had envisioned a
release-specific page - specific to release families (5.0, 5.1, etc) as
opposed to specific micro/bugfix releases (5.0.1, 5.0.2, etc).  This
release page would include:

   1. General description - what were the main points or developments for
   this family?
   2. Links to its documentation
   3. List of all micro/bugfix releases as a sort-of simplified changelog.
   This part is still unclear in my head as to the best way to represent this
   information, but ultimately each entry in this list would need to include:
  1. announcement URL
  2. sysopsis of the main fixes/changes
  3. link to the full changelog

For the most part, the information I listed for the micro/bugfix release
entries is covered in the release announcement so one option is to simply
link to each announcement for that family - possibly driven by the release
yaml files.

This also fixes what I find to be a very confusing list of "latest"
releases.  I think that works much better as a single entry on the release
family page.

Will what you did "work" for ORM?  Sure.  What I describe is just what I
personally think would be better in terms of ORM needs, but I have
absolutely no resources to do that atm.  So for now, whatever y'all deem is
best is probably the best way to go.


On Fri, Sep 8, 2017 at 8:11 AM Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> Thanks Yoann!
> Looks great.
>
> Two minor suggestions:
>  - could the two links we have for each release on search/releases/ on
> two separate lines? Or something else to make it clear that there are
> two linkes.
>  - Regarding the "Compatibility matrix", the header line (the one in
> black) .. I think we need to clarify in some way that you're referring
> to Hibernate Search releases. Possibly just link to the page
> describing the family?
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
>
>
> On 8 September 2017 at 13:53, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
> > Hey,
> >
> > I pushed an update to staging. I only converted the "Search" part for
> now.
> > What changes:
> >
> > The _data folder structured changed a bit, so that we can introduces a
> YAML
> > file for each series (5.5, 5.6, 5.6, 5.8, ...), containing a summary of
> this
> > series and a list of integration constraints (ORM > 5.2, etc.)
> > The "Downloads" page is renamed to "Releases", since, well, it's about
> more
> > than just downloads. See http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/
> > The "Releases" page now includes a "Compatibilty matrix" section based on
> > the new data I mentioned above
> > The "Releases" page now includes links to one page for each series
> ("More on
> > the 5.8 series")
> > There is now one page for each series (see
> > http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/series/5.8/). This page
> > includes:
> >
> > A short (one-line) summary of this series
> > A reminder of the integration constraints for this series
> > A section about the main changes in this release. I only wrote something
> for
> > the 5.8 series for now, and I basically copy/pasted sections from various
> > blog posts.
> > A list of all releases in this series.
> >
> > What I didn't do, but could make sense:
> >
> > add a sub-menu element under "Releases" for each series
> > link to the documentation for each of the latest releases from the
> > "Releases" page
> > link to the latest documentation and to the migration guides from each
> > series' page
> >
> > What do you all think? Emmanuel, would this address your concerns? Steve,
> > would this be a good fit for ORM?
> >
> > Yoann Rodière
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yo...@hibernate.org
> >
> > On 6 September 2017 at 17:16, Steve Ebersole 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> This is something I brought up ages ago wrt ORM.  I wanted something
> >> (although ideally integrated with the "more version friendly"
> hibernate.org
> >> design) similar to what I did atm on the ORM GitHub wiki.  For example,
> for
> >> 5.2 we have:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Roadmap5.2
> >> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Migration-Guide---5.2
> >> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/ReleaseNotes5.2
> >>
> >>
> >> The 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

Sanne, I addressed both your comments. Is it better?
I also addressed Guillaume's comment on HipChat, and made the compatibility
matrix a bit... fuzzier, so that we won't have to update it as often. We
can still make it very specific if we want to, but we won't be limited by
the layout anymore.

Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 8 September 2017 at 15:11, Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> Thanks Yoann!
> Looks great.
>
> Two minor suggestions:
>  - could the two links we have for each release on search/releases/ on
> two separate lines? Or something else to make it clear that there are
> two linkes.
>  - Regarding the "Compatibility matrix", the header line (the one in
> black) .. I think we need to clarify in some way that you're referring
> to Hibernate Search releases. Possibly just link to the page
> describing the family?
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
>
>
> On 8 September 2017 at 13:53, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
> > Hey,
> >
> > I pushed an update to staging. I only converted the "Search" part for
> now.
> > What changes:
> >
> > The _data folder structured changed a bit, so that we can introduces a
> YAML
> > file for each series (5.5, 5.6, 5.6, 5.8, ...), containing a summary of
> this
> > series and a list of integration constraints (ORM > 5.2, etc.)
> > The "Downloads" page is renamed to "Releases", since, well, it's about
> more
> > than just downloads. See http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/
> > The "Releases" page now includes a "Compatibilty matrix" section based on
> > the new data I mentioned above
> > The "Releases" page now includes links to one page for each series
> ("More on
> > the 5.8 series")
> > There is now one page for each series (see
> > http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/series/5.8/). This page
> > includes:
> >
> > A short (one-line) summary of this series
> > A reminder of the integration constraints for this series
> > A section about the main changes in this release. I only wrote something
> for
> > the 5.8 series for now, and I basically copy/pasted sections from various
> > blog posts.
> > A list of all releases in this series.
> >
> > What I didn't do, but could make sense:
> >
> > add a sub-menu element under "Releases" for each series
> > link to the documentation for each of the latest releases from the
> > "Releases" page
> > link to the latest documentation and to the migration guides from each
> > series' page
> >
> > What do you all think? Emmanuel, would this address your concerns? Steve,
> > would this be a good fit for ORM?
> >
> > Yoann Rodière
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yo...@hibernate.org
> >
> > On 6 September 2017 at 17:16, Steve Ebersole 
> wrote:
> >>
> >> This is something I brought up ages ago wrt ORM.  I wanted something
> >> (although ideally integrated with the "more version friendly"
> hibernate.org
> >> design) similar to what I did atm on the ORM GitHub wiki.  For example,
> for
> >> 5.2 we have:
> >>
> >> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Roadmap5.2
> >> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Migration-Guide---5.2
> >> https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/ReleaseNotes5.2
> >>
> >>
> >> The format could be better and some of this information could be
> combined
> >> (release notes and migration guide e.g.).  But bear in mind that this
> was
> >> just what I put together to illustrate what I was wanted to do,
> generally
> >> speaking - so its a bit "rough"
> >>
> >>
> >> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:17 AM Sanne Grinovero 
> >> wrote:
> >>>
> >>> Thanks for that Emmanuel.
> >>>
> >>> I'll fix the one-liner describing the release, I believe we had
> >>> already noticed this in the past: they need to describe the whole
> >>> minor not the micro update.
> >>> The Search roadmap actually also needs a little re-touch, I'll propose
> >>> a PR for that too.
> >>>
> >>> Regarding past roadmaps: I don't like to clutter the roadmap page with
> >>> the previous copies, especially as they should have a different nature
> >>> of not being a plan but being a record of what was actually done.
> >>> Also, we did agree in past meetings to remove all the old ones. e.g.
> >>> we never ported the release notes for version 3.x and 4.x as back then
> >>> we decided this was no place for that. Happy to revisit this decision
> >>> but let's separate them:
> >>>
> >>> What about a "past releases" page at the same level of roadmap, and
> >>> linking to it both from the main Search menu and the roadmap?
> >>>
> >>> +1 for Yoann's proposal to re-introduce the compatibility matrix
> >>> (there was one ~6 years ago). I also had proposed to reintroduce it
> >>> more recently, and was not done on the grounds that it gets out of
> >>> date quickly.
> >>> Still users badly need it so unless someone has a better idea, let's
> >>> agree on trying to keep it up to date manually. Let's try structure it
> >>> in such a way that it won't need to be 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

Hey,

I pushed an update to staging. I only converted the "Search" part for now.
What changes:

   - The _data folder structured changed a bit, so that we can introduces a
   YAML file for each series (5.5, 5.6, 5.6, 5.8, ...), containing a summary
   of this series and a list of integration constraints (ORM > 5.2, etc.)
   - The "Downloads" page is renamed to "Releases", since, well, it's about
   more than just downloads. See
   http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/
   - The "Releases" page now includes a "Compatibilty matrix" section based
   on the new data I mentioned above
   - The "Releases" page now includes links to one page for each series
   ("More on the 5.8 series")
   - There is now one page for each series (see
   http://staging.hibernate.org/search/releases/series/5.8/). This page
   includes:
  - A short (one-line) summary of this series
  - A reminder of the integration constraints for this series
  - A section about the main changes in this release. I only wrote
  something for the 5.8 series for now, and I basically
copy/pasted sections
  from various blog posts.
  - A list of all releases in this series.

What I didn't do, but could make sense:

   - add a sub-menu element under "Releases" for each series
   - link to the documentation for each of the latest releases from the
   "Releases" page
   - link to the latest documentation and to the migration guides from each
   series' page

What do you all think? Emmanuel, would this address your concerns? Steve,
would this be a good fit for ORM?

Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 6 September 2017 at 17:16, Steve Ebersole  wrote:

> This is something I brought up ages ago wrt ORM.  I wanted something
> (although ideally integrated with the "more version friendly"
> hibernate.org design) similar to what I did atm on the ORM GitHub wiki.
> For example, for 5.2 we have:
>
>
>- https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Roadmap5.2
>- https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Migration-Guide---5.2
>- https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/ReleaseNotes5.2
>
>
> The format could be better and some of this information could be combined
> (release notes and migration guide e.g.).  But bear in mind that this was
> just what I put together to illustrate what I was wanted to do, generally
> speaking - so its a bit "rough"
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:17 AM Sanne Grinovero 
> wrote:
>
>> Thanks for that Emmanuel.
>>
>> I'll fix the one-liner describing the release, I believe we had
>> already noticed this in the past: they need to describe the whole
>> minor not the micro update.
>> The Search roadmap actually also needs a little re-touch, I'll propose
>> a PR for that too.
>>
>> Regarding past roadmaps: I don't like to clutter the roadmap page with
>> the previous copies, especially as they should have a different nature
>> of not being a plan but being a record of what was actually done.
>> Also, we did agree in past meetings to remove all the old ones. e.g.
>> we never ported the release notes for version 3.x and 4.x as back then
>> we decided this was no place for that. Happy to revisit this decision
>> but let's separate them:
>>
>> What about a "past releases" page at the same level of roadmap, and
>> linking to it both from the main Search menu and the roadmap?
>>
>> +1 for Yoann's proposal to re-introduce the compatibility matrix
>> (there was one ~6 years ago). I also had proposed to reintroduce it
>> more recently, and was not done on the grounds that it gets out of
>> date quickly.
>> Still users badly need it so unless someone has a better idea, let's
>> agree on trying to keep it up to date manually. Let's try structure it
>> in such a way that it won't need to be updated for every single
>> release.
>>
>> Thanks,
>> Sanne
>>
>>
>> On 6 September 2017 at 08:37, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
>> > Hey,
>> >
>> > About Search, true, the information is somewhat hidden in many blog
>> posts.
>> > I'm not sure the roadmap is the right place, though, since we probably
>> want
>> > the format to be different for past and future releases: information for
>> > past releases is typically more precise and more verbose, with code
>> > examples and so on. See for instance this blog post:
>> http://in.relation.to/
>> > 2017/06/13/hibernate-search-5-8-0-Beta3/ . I'm afraid the future
>> roadmap
>> > would be drowned in the past releases.
>> >
>> > I was thinking about another problem: we don't have a compatibility
>> matrix.
>> > We only have a few dependencies (mainly ORM and Lucene), but it's really
>> > hard to know which versions of the dependencies to use with which
>> version
>> > of Search, and users frequently use the wrong versions.
>> > With that in mind, I would rather see a "Versions" page, with a summary
>> at
>> > the top (including a one-liner for each minor and the compatibilty
>> matrix),
>> > 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Steve Ebersole]

This is something I brought up ages ago wrt ORM.  I wanted something
(although ideally integrated with the "more version friendly" hibernate.org
design) similar to what I did atm on the ORM GitHub wiki.  For example, for
5.2 we have:


   - https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Roadmap5.2
   - https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/Migration-Guide---5.2
   - https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate-orm/wiki/ReleaseNotes5.2


The format could be better and some of this information could be combined
(release notes and migration guide e.g.).  But bear in mind that this was
just what I put together to illustrate what I was wanted to do, generally
speaking - so its a bit "rough"


On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 4:17 AM Sanne Grinovero  wrote:

> Thanks for that Emmanuel.
>
> I'll fix the one-liner describing the release, I believe we had
> already noticed this in the past: they need to describe the whole
> minor not the micro update.
> The Search roadmap actually also needs a little re-touch, I'll propose
> a PR for that too.
>
> Regarding past roadmaps: I don't like to clutter the roadmap page with
> the previous copies, especially as they should have a different nature
> of not being a plan but being a record of what was actually done.
> Also, we did agree in past meetings to remove all the old ones. e.g.
> we never ported the release notes for version 3.x and 4.x as back then
> we decided this was no place for that. Happy to revisit this decision
> but let's separate them:
>
> What about a "past releases" page at the same level of roadmap, and
> linking to it both from the main Search menu and the roadmap?
>
> +1 for Yoann's proposal to re-introduce the compatibility matrix
> (there was one ~6 years ago). I also had proposed to reintroduce it
> more recently, and was not done on the grounds that it gets out of
> date quickly.
> Still users badly need it so unless someone has a better idea, let's
> agree on trying to keep it up to date manually. Let's try structure it
> in such a way that it won't need to be updated for every single
> release.
>
> Thanks,
> Sanne
>
>
> On 6 September 2017 at 08:37, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
> > Hey,
> >
> > About Search, true, the information is somewhat hidden in many blog
> posts.
> > I'm not sure the roadmap is the right place, though, since we probably
> want
> > the format to be different for past and future releases: information for
> > past releases is typically more precise and more verbose, with code
> > examples and so on. See for instance this blog post:
> http://in.relation.to/
> > 2017/06/13/hibernate-search-5-8-0-Beta3/ . I'm afraid the future roadmap
> > would be drowned in the past releases.
> >
> > I was thinking about another problem: we don't have a compatibility
> matrix.
> > We only have a few dependencies (mainly ORM and Lucene), but it's really
> > hard to know which versions of the dependencies to use with which version
> > of Search, and users frequently use the wrong versions.
> > With that in mind, I would rather see a "Versions" page, with a summary
> at
> > the top (including a one-liner for each minor and the compatibilty
> matrix),
> > and one section for each minor (with anchors, so that we can link to them
> > from other pages such as the downloads). Or maybe even one page for the
> > detail of each minor, if there's too much text.
> > I think it would make sense to have all that information gathered in a
> > single place, because all of that is needed for users to pick the version
> > they want: they need to know the benefits of upgrading (features) but
> also
> > the constraints (compatibility matrix).
> > Maybe I can give it a try at the end of the week?
> >
> >
> > Yoann Rodière
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yo...@hibernate.org
> >
> > On 6 September 2017 at 09:21, Emmanuel Bernard 
> > wrote:
> >
> >> Hey all,
> >>
> >> I was trying to answer the following question, what is roughly new
> between
> >> 5.6, 5.7 and 5.8 (minor releases)?
> >>
> >> My first reflex was to go to http://hibernate.org/search/downloads/ <
> >> http://hibernate.org/search/downloads/> to read about the onliner per
> >> release. Except it’s a onliner per micro release and “minor adjustments”
> >> for 5.6.3.Final gave me literally no info whatsoever.
> >>
> >> My second reflex was to go to http://hibernate.org/search/roadmap/ <
> >> http://hibernate.org/search/roadmap/> to find a historical entry about
> >> older versions and the main changes in bullet points. No luck. It only
> >> talks about the future.
> >>
> >> My third reflex was to go to http://in.relation.to/hibernate-search/ <
> >> http://in.relation.to/hibernate-search/> I ended up giving up midway
> page
> >> 2 of the list of blog entries. It’s a mix of simultaneous parallel
> releases
> >> with what’s new since the last CR or the last micro kind of reports and
> >> gave up in dismay at the energy I would have to spend to extract what’s
> 

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Sanne Grinovero]

Thanks for that Emmanuel.

I'll fix the one-liner describing the release, I believe we had
already noticed this in the past: they need to describe the whole
minor not the micro update.
The Search roadmap actually also needs a little re-touch, I'll propose
a PR for that too.

Regarding past roadmaps: I don't like to clutter the roadmap page with
the previous copies, especially as they should have a different nature
of not being a plan but being a record of what was actually done.
Also, we did agree in past meetings to remove all the old ones. e.g.
we never ported the release notes for version 3.x and 4.x as back then
we decided this was no place for that. Happy to revisit this decision
but let's separate them:

What about a "past releases" page at the same level of roadmap, and
linking to it both from the main Search menu and the roadmap?

+1 for Yoann's proposal to re-introduce the compatibility matrix
(there was one ~6 years ago). I also had proposed to reintroduce it
more recently, and was not done on the grounds that it gets out of
date quickly.
Still users badly need it so unless someone has a better idea, let's
agree on trying to keep it up to date manually. Let's try structure it
in such a way that it won't need to be updated for every single
release.

Thanks,
Sanne


On 6 September 2017 at 08:37, Yoann Rodiere  wrote:
> Hey,
>
> About Search, true, the information is somewhat hidden in many blog posts.
> I'm not sure the roadmap is the right place, though, since we probably want
> the format to be different for past and future releases: information for
> past releases is typically more precise and more verbose, with code
> examples and so on. See for instance this blog post: http://in.relation.to/
> 2017/06/13/hibernate-search-5-8-0-Beta3/ . I'm afraid the future roadmap
> would be drowned in the past releases.
>
> I was thinking about another problem: we don't have a compatibility matrix.
> We only have a few dependencies (mainly ORM and Lucene), but it's really
> hard to know which versions of the dependencies to use with which version
> of Search, and users frequently use the wrong versions.
> With that in mind, I would rather see a "Versions" page, with a summary at
> the top (including a one-liner for each minor and the compatibilty matrix),
> and one section for each minor (with anchors, so that we can link to them
> from other pages such as the downloads). Or maybe even one page for the
> detail of each minor, if there's too much text.
> I think it would make sense to have all that information gathered in a
> single place, because all of that is needed for users to pick the version
> they want: they need to know the benefits of upgrading (features) but also
> the constraints (compatibility matrix).
> Maybe I can give it a try at the end of the week?
>
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
> On 6 September 2017 at 09:21, Emmanuel Bernard 
> wrote:
>
>> Hey all,
>>
>> I was trying to answer the following question, what is roughly new between
>> 5.6, 5.7 and 5.8 (minor releases)?
>>
>> My first reflex was to go to http://hibernate.org/search/downloads/ <
>> http://hibernate.org/search/downloads/> to read about the onliner per
>> release. Except it’s a onliner per micro release and “minor adjustments”
>> for 5.6.3.Final gave me literally no info whatsoever.
>>
>> My second reflex was to go to http://hibernate.org/search/roadmap/ <
>> http://hibernate.org/search/roadmap/> to find a historical entry about
>> older versions and the main changes in bullet points. No luck. It only
>> talks about the future.
>>
>> My third reflex was to go to http://in.relation.to/hibernate-search/ <
>> http://in.relation.to/hibernate-search/> I ended up giving up midway page
>> 2 of the list of blog entries. It’s a mix of simultaneous parallel releases
>> with what’s new since the last CR or the last micro kind of reports and
>> gave up in dismay at the energy I would have to spend to extract what’s new
>> for a full minor release.
>>
>> I did exaggerate a bit the third point but I did give up. We need
>> somewhere a summary page of what’s new per minor releases. I think the
>> roadmap page could be the host.
>> Likewise, we might need a oneliner entry in the download section (per
>> release) that points to this minor release summary.
>>
>> Thoughts?
>>
>> Speaking of roadmap:
>> - HV roadmap is massively out of date
>> - OGM is lying a bit on the future but at least has the past summary I was
>> talking about
>> - Search has a good future roadmap but no past
>>
>> Emmanuek
>> ___
>> hibernate-dev mailing list
>> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
>> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> ___
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev

Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Guillaume Smet]

@Marko,

Yes, I plan to review them this week and add additional things to it!

On Wed, Sep 6, 2017 at 9:55 AM, Marko Bekhta 
wrote:

> Hi Emmanuel,
>
> I did some updates to HV roadmap with this PR [1]. There's also some
> updates to
> HV contribute page. Maybe somebody could check those changes and if needed
> add
> more to what is present, if what is already there is fine.
>
> Have a nice day,
> Marko
>
> [1] https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate.org/pull/123.
>
> 2017-09-06 9:37 GMT+02:00 Yoann Rodiere :
>
> > Hey,
> >
> > About Search, true, the information is somewhat hidden in many blog
> posts.
> > I'm not sure the roadmap is the right place, though, since we probably
> want
> > the format to be different for past and future releases: information for
> > past releases is typically more precise and more verbose, with code
> > examples and so on. See for instance this blog post:
> > http://in.relation.to/
> > 2017/06/13/hibernate-search-5-8-0-Beta3/ . I'm afraid the future roadmap
> > would be drowned in the past releases.
> >
> > I was thinking about another problem: we don't have a compatibility
> matrix.
> > We only have a few dependencies (mainly ORM and Lucene), but it's really
> > hard to know which versions of the dependencies to use with which version
> > of Search, and users frequently use the wrong versions.
> > With that in mind, I would rather see a "Versions" page, with a summary
> at
> > the top (including a one-liner for each minor and the compatibilty
> matrix),
> > and one section for each minor (with anchors, so that we can link to them
> > from other pages such as the downloads). Or maybe even one page for the
> > detail of each minor, if there's too much text.
> > I think it would make sense to have all that information gathered in a
> > single place, because all of that is needed for users to pick the version
> > they want: they need to know the benefits of upgrading (features) but
> also
> > the constraints (compatibility matrix).
> > Maybe I can give it a try at the end of the week?
> >
> >
> > Yoann Rodière
> > Hibernate NoORM Team
> > yo...@hibernate.org
> >
> > On 6 September 2017 at 09:21, Emmanuel Bernard 
> > wrote:
> >
> > > Hey all,
> > >
> > > I was trying to answer the following question, what is roughly new
> > between
> > > 5.6, 5.7 and 5.8 (minor releases)?
> > >
> > > My first reflex was to go to http://hibernate.org/search/downloads/ <
> > > http://hibernate.org/search/downloads/> to read about the onliner per
> > > release. Except it’s a onliner per micro release and “minor
> adjustments”
> > > for 5.6.3.Final gave me literally no info whatsoever.
> > >
> > > My second reflex was to go to http://hibernate.org/search/roadmap/ <
> > > http://hibernate.org/search/roadmap/> to find a historical entry about
> > > older versions and the main changes in bullet points. No luck. It only
> > > talks about the future.
> > >
> > > My third reflex was to go to http://in.relation.to/hibernate-search/ <
> > > http://in.relation.to/hibernate-search/> I ended up giving up midway
> > page
> > > 2 of the list of blog entries. It’s a mix of simultaneous parallel
> > releases
> > > with what’s new since the last CR or the last micro kind of reports and
> > > gave up in dismay at the energy I would have to spend to extract what’s
> > new
> > > for a full minor release.
> > >
> > > I did exaggerate a bit the third point but I did give up. We need
> > > somewhere a summary page of what’s new per minor releases. I think the
> > > roadmap page could be the host.
> > > Likewise, we might need a oneliner entry in the download section (per
> > > release) that points to this minor release summary.
> > >
> > > Thoughts?
> > >
> > > Speaking of roadmap:
> > > - HV roadmap is massively out of date
> > > - OGM is lying a bit on the future but at least has the past summary I
> > was
> > > talking about
> > > - Search has a good future roadmap but no past
> > >
> > > Emmanuek
> > > ___
> > > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Marko Bekhta]

Hi Emmanuel,

I did some updates to HV roadmap with this PR [1]. There's also some
updates to
HV contribute page. Maybe somebody could check those changes and if needed
add
more to what is present, if what is already there is fine.

Have a nice day,
Marko

[1] https://github.com/hibernate/hibernate.org/pull/123.

2017-09-06 9:37 GMT+02:00 Yoann Rodiere :

> Hey,
>
> About Search, true, the information is somewhat hidden in many blog posts.
> I'm not sure the roadmap is the right place, though, since we probably want
> the format to be different for past and future releases: information for
> past releases is typically more precise and more verbose, with code
> examples and so on. See for instance this blog post:
> http://in.relation.to/
> 2017/06/13/hibernate-search-5-8-0-Beta3/ . I'm afraid the future roadmap
> would be drowned in the past releases.
>
> I was thinking about another problem: we don't have a compatibility matrix.
> We only have a few dependencies (mainly ORM and Lucene), but it's really
> hard to know which versions of the dependencies to use with which version
> of Search, and users frequently use the wrong versions.
> With that in mind, I would rather see a "Versions" page, with a summary at
> the top (including a one-liner for each minor and the compatibilty matrix),
> and one section for each minor (with anchors, so that we can link to them
> from other pages such as the downloads). Or maybe even one page for the
> detail of each minor, if there's too much text.
> I think it would make sense to have all that information gathered in a
> single place, because all of that is needed for users to pick the version
> they want: they need to know the benefits of upgrading (features) but also
> the constraints (compatibility matrix).
> Maybe I can give it a try at the end of the week?
>
>
> Yoann Rodière
> Hibernate NoORM Team
> yo...@hibernate.org
>
> On 6 September 2017 at 09:21, Emmanuel Bernard 
> wrote:
>
> > Hey all,
> >
> > I was trying to answer the following question, what is roughly new
> between
> > 5.6, 5.7 and 5.8 (minor releases)?
> >
> > My first reflex was to go to http://hibernate.org/search/downloads/ <
> > http://hibernate.org/search/downloads/> to read about the onliner per
> > release. Except it’s a onliner per micro release and “minor adjustments”
> > for 5.6.3.Final gave me literally no info whatsoever.
> >
> > My second reflex was to go to http://hibernate.org/search/roadmap/ <
> > http://hibernate.org/search/roadmap/> to find a historical entry about
> > older versions and the main changes in bullet points. No luck. It only
> > talks about the future.
> >
> > My third reflex was to go to http://in.relation.to/hibernate-search/ <
> > http://in.relation.to/hibernate-search/> I ended up giving up midway
> page
> > 2 of the list of blog entries. It’s a mix of simultaneous parallel
> releases
> > with what’s new since the last CR or the last micro kind of reports and
> > gave up in dismay at the energy I would have to spend to extract what’s
> new
> > for a full minor release.
> >
> > I did exaggerate a bit the third point but I did give up. We need
> > somewhere a summary page of what’s new per minor releases. I think the
> > roadmap page could be the host.
> > Likewise, we might need a oneliner entry in the download section (per
> > release) that points to this minor release summary.
> >
> > Thoughts?
> >
> > Speaking of roadmap:
> > - HV roadmap is massively out of date
> > - OGM is lying a bit on the future but at least has the past summary I
> was
> > talking about
> > - Search has a good future roadmap but no past
> >
> > Emmanuek
> > ___
> > hibernate-dev mailing list
> > hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> > https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
> ___
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> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
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Re: [hibernate-dev] [Search and more] What is new in a give release

[Yoann Rodiere]

Hey,

About Search, true, the information is somewhat hidden in many blog posts.
I'm not sure the roadmap is the right place, though, since we probably want
the format to be different for past and future releases: information for
past releases is typically more precise and more verbose, with code
examples and so on. See for instance this blog post: http://in.relation.to/
2017/06/13/hibernate-search-5-8-0-Beta3/ . I'm afraid the future roadmap
would be drowned in the past releases.

I was thinking about another problem: we don't have a compatibility matrix.
We only have a few dependencies (mainly ORM and Lucene), but it's really
hard to know which versions of the dependencies to use with which version
of Search, and users frequently use the wrong versions.
With that in mind, I would rather see a "Versions" page, with a summary at
the top (including a one-liner for each minor and the compatibilty matrix),
and one section for each minor (with anchors, so that we can link to them
from other pages such as the downloads). Or maybe even one page for the
detail of each minor, if there's too much text.
I think it would make sense to have all that information gathered in a
single place, because all of that is needed for users to pick the version
they want: they need to know the benefits of upgrading (features) but also
the constraints (compatibility matrix).
Maybe I can give it a try at the end of the week?


Yoann Rodière
Hibernate NoORM Team
yo...@hibernate.org

On 6 September 2017 at 09:21, Emmanuel Bernard 
wrote:

> Hey all,
>
> I was trying to answer the following question, what is roughly new between
> 5.6, 5.7 and 5.8 (minor releases)?
>
> My first reflex was to go to http://hibernate.org/search/downloads/ <
> http://hibernate.org/search/downloads/> to read about the onliner per
> release. Except it’s a onliner per micro release and “minor adjustments”
> for 5.6.3.Final gave me literally no info whatsoever.
>
> My second reflex was to go to http://hibernate.org/search/roadmap/ <
> http://hibernate.org/search/roadmap/> to find a historical entry about
> older versions and the main changes in bullet points. No luck. It only
> talks about the future.
>
> My third reflex was to go to http://in.relation.to/hibernate-search/ <
> http://in.relation.to/hibernate-search/> I ended up giving up midway page
> 2 of the list of blog entries. It’s a mix of simultaneous parallel releases
> with what’s new since the last CR or the last micro kind of reports and
> gave up in dismay at the energy I would have to spend to extract what’s new
> for a full minor release.
>
> I did exaggerate a bit the third point but I did give up. We need
> somewhere a summary page of what’s new per minor releases. I think the
> roadmap page could be the host.
> Likewise, we might need a oneliner entry in the download section (per
> release) that points to this minor release summary.
>
> Thoughts?
>
> Speaking of roadmap:
> - HV roadmap is massively out of date
> - OGM is lying a bit on the future but at least has the past summary I was
> talking about
> - Search has a good future roadmap but no past
>
> Emmanuek
> ___
> hibernate-dev mailing list
> hibernate-dev@lists.jboss.org
> https://lists.jboss.org/mailman/listinfo/hibernate-dev
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