RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology
TeriI think you are right about the promotion of the status quo, and this is a definate concern for me in staying in this field. There seems to be so much change resistance. Also, it is my understanding that many MT programs used to require histology rotations in histology here as well, but it seems many now do not. It seems to me that many MT programs are 2 +1 or 3 +1, which is fine by me, but I never thought this was the same as doing a full undergrad curriculum, and never understood why it offers MT gradstrumping for any advanced lab roles, over any other similarly educated lab person with equal or greater education and training? I have concluded that we are fighting a perception, and that is not going to be easy. Personally, I have no issue with an MT doing histology if they want to learn it sincerely by whatever means, but some seem to think that since they know clinical lab, that it does not take any additional learning, formal or otherwise. I often wonder why it seems outrageous to the same, if it were to be worked the other way? I believe that I would be ignored completely or scoffed at, if I tried to apply, or walked into a clinical lab to work. Also, I think some people in histology have put considerable effort into dialogue about our field and its needs for well prepared staff in the main-stream media, but I agree that it is far below the level of communication that will be needed to change the aforementioned perceptions. Interestingly, most histotechs I have encountered are unwilling to dedicate much time, since it is rarely for any pay, to any activities like these- since it often involves a lot of work and preparation to construct/publish an article or give a presentation out in the public arena. I know that over time, I have donated probably hundreds of hours, and most of the time it is a fight just to be allowed to do this ( such as take time off from work with your own vacation to travel or attend). If anything in my current environment, people roll their eyes at me for doing anything of this sort. If you want to encourage people to participate, we will have to work to see it supported within organizations and applauded within the group. So what usually is a frustration/dissappointment for me is when people will complain, but most won't bother to take any action ( not directed at you or anyone in particular, just expressing frustration with general lack of initiative)...anyhow your points are well taken. If we are to move forward as a group, we are going to have to get on the same page ourselves and put forth some consistent and concentrated efforts. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC From: tjohn...@gnf.org To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:06:37 + Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Ok, my workplace blocks Facebook, so here is the article for those of you who can't read it from the original link provided: http://www.clpmag.com/issues/articles/2012-09_04.asp Many good points have already been raised and discussed and I will not rehash them here. Here are my thoughts on the matter: - First - kudos for the NSH, state societies, committee members and histology professionals for working their butts off to provide us with information and training opportunities, and for promoting our profession. They are doing what they can to provide the water for us to drink. It is up to us to partake in it. - Why are we keeping this information in laboratory-centric publications? How in the world are we ever going to get the word out about our shortages and challenges unless we move outside of our own little box? Advance, Laboratory Medicine, NSH, etc are only read by personnel currently involved in laboratory testing. Sorry but we've been talking about this for YEARS and almost always in Lab publications. Is anything happening? What about People Magazine, or USA Today, or Sunday Morning or Good Morning America? - We have long fought to keep Med Techs from coming into the histology lab and taking over the higher complexity testing because they have a 4-year degree and most of us don't. To say that it is a mistake to bring them in because only histologists fully understand the preparation process and its effects of the variation of results and can effectively work, partner with the pathologist to provide the information and testing results required to make personalized medicine a reality is like trying to hide behind a shield made of aluminum foil. If we can learn it on the job (as most of us have), then so can they. Encroachment by MTs might be the single biggest factor in promoting education in our field. - I'm wondering if anyone(in clinical laboratory education) has started thinking about putting a histology component into Med Tech training. I know their schools are in trouble as well, but maybe the answer isn't to stay
Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology
Very interesting topics being discussed here by everyone!!! Laboratory automation has dramatically transformed the lab., specifically the clinical environment, but not on the same scale for the research based histology labs., - particularly those individuals working with larger free-floating sections. The big disadvantages I see with automation in the lab. is 1st. - the price 2nd - improved design precision. I agree with Tim, there are various aspects to histology where automation will not be replacing the extensive hands-on used by histotechs anytime soon. Saying this, at the corporate level particularly for firms involved in drug discovery clinical diagnostics, automation robotics have significantly increased productivity lowered costs. Histology is the kind of profession that is incredibly challenging, it's always changing it's...an innovative experience! Your mind has to be sharp focused all the time because there's so much as stake. Histologists have always been very self-motivated, driven determined! We have always had to be - it's a way to taking care of ourselves! I like the fact that often there is always another way of doing something, not just one way - histology is very much like that - discovering, imagining learning - it pushes us to other possibilities regardless of the task - this is how we teach inspire others into the field. I agree with Teri, lets start telling the world about histology the people who work in this profession through articles essays placed in wider publications like those mentioned by Teri. Maria Mejia San Francisco, CA On Sep 17, 2012, at 2:00 PM, Morken, Timothy wrote: Histology is going to have a huge manual component for a long time. Even though embedding has been automated to a certain extent it has not been accepted by many...yet. Automated sectioning is a long way off - and who would have the money to buy sectioning robots that could do as well as a human? Would it even be cost effective (and that IS the question!)? Much of this could be made much easier by proper application of grossing/processing/embedding procedures. But we can't even get pathologists to agree how long any particular tissue should be fixed - no matter what the literature says. Good luck standardizing grossing and tissue processing across a single large department, let alone the entire industry (though I know Bill has done wonders with this in his company). Simply due to that lack of standardization manual work will be with us for a LONG time since every block requires individual care and decision making by the person sectioning it. IHC is bread and butter to the lab now. ISH is coming along but still too rare to make much money off of it, if any at all. I don't think we do much more of it percentage wise than 20 years ago. The best IHC techs take interest in the cases, learn what the antibodies are for and pay attention to the staining they get (if they have time before the TAT deadline!). They do research on diseases and can converse with pathologist about the results. Molecular methods (ie, DNA/RNA, besides ISH) is quite different than histology. Completely different training required, though I have no doubt histotechs could do it, why would they hire a histotech when there are umpteen biochemists applying for every biology job advertised (including histology!!)? Digital pathology is still promising, just as it was 10 years ago, and will be promising 5 or 10 years from now unless a technology comes along to scan slides FAST - ie 10 seconds, not 5 minutes. Maybe someone will adapt the Lytro Light Field Camera to slide scanning. Seems a perfect match (google it!). Barcoding is on the way in. We are going to have a system by June 2013. But it is in the growing stage and there are lots of tradeoffs. The hardware has just become available in the last 5 years to make it reliable. Now the vendors have to get going. Some have with great systems - Ventana, possibly Leica, Omnitrax. The LIS vendors have fallen flat on their faces on this - totally missed the boat and ceded the specimen tracking space to histology and IHC vendors. Shows what happens when your company is too big and you don't pay attention to the possibilities. As recently as 3 years ago I had an LIS vendor technical person ask me what on earth I would use bar coding for in histology. I hope that guy has been fired by now for ignorance! Of course one huge disadvantage to having histology and IHC vendors providing barcoding/tracking systems is some want to limit your choices to their instruments. That is a big bugaboo right now. But I understand Clinical Chemistry is dealing with the same issue - instrument vendors forcing certain parameters on the lab. Training of histotechs is and always will be a problem. 95+% of histotechs are trained OJT. I think there is only one program on the
[Histonet] job in Georgia
Here is a job I am posting for Pat... A P Laboratories, Statesboro Georgia is seeking ASCP Histology Technician for full time, start date October 15,2012, competive salary and benefits. Please call email resume to pbrigg...@gmail.commailto:pbrigg...@gmail.com or call 843-300-3001 ext 213. Pat Briggs A P Laboratories Director of Institutional Development ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology
Honey! We have been trying to get this group on the same page since the 70s. We're a bit closer but we're still singing different songs... fa la la la, la la la la... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager 678-843-7376 Phone 678-843-7831 Fax joyce.we...@emoryhealthcare.org www.saintjosephsatlanta.org 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Road Atlanta, GA 30342 This e-mail, including any attachments is the property of Saint Joseph's Hospital and is intended for the sole use of the intended recipient(s). It may contain information that is privileged and confidential. Any unauthorized review, use, disclosure, or distribution is prohibited. If you are not the intended recipient, please delete this message, and reply to the sender regarding the error in a separate email. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of joelle weaver Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:58 AM To: tjohn...@gnf.org; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology TeriI think you are right about the promotion of the status quo, and this is a definate concern for me in staying in this field. There seems to be so much change resistance. Also, it is my understanding that many MT programs used to require histology rotations in histology here as well, but it seems many now do not. It seems to me that many MT programs are 2 +1 or 3 +1, which is fine by me, but I never thought this was the same as doing a full undergrad curriculum, and never understood why it offers MT gradstrumping for any advanced lab roles, over any other similarly educated lab person with equal or greater education and training? I have concluded that we are fighting a perception, and that is not going to be easy. Personally, I have no issue with an MT doing histology if they want to learn it sincerely by whatever means, but some seem to think that since they know clinical lab, that it does not take any additional learning, formal or otherwise. I often wonder why it seems outrageous to the same, if it were to be worked the other way? I believe that I would be ignored completely or scoffed at, if I tried to apply, or walked into a clinical lab to work. Also, I think some people in histology have put considerable effort into dialogue about our field and its needs for well prepared staff in the main-stream media, but I agree that it is far below the level of communication that will be needed to change the aforementioned perceptions. Interestingly, most histotechs I have encountered are unwilling to dedicate much time, since it is rarely for any pay, to any activities like these- since it often involves a lot of work and preparation to construct/publish an article or give a presentation out in the public arena. I know that over time, I have donated probably hundreds of hours, and most of the time it is a fight just to be allowed to do this ( such as take time off from work with your own vacation to travel or attend). If anything in my current environment, people roll their eyes at me for doing anything of this sort. If you want to encourage people to participate, we will have to work to see it supported within organizations and applauded within the group. So what usually is a frustration/dissappointment for me is when people will complain, but most won't bother to take any action ( not directed at you or anyone in particular, just expressing frustration with general lack of initiative)...anyhow your points are well taken. If we are to move forward as a group, we are going to have to get on the same page ourselves and put forth some consistent and concentrated efforts. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC From: tjohn...@gnf.org To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:06:37 + Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Ok, my workplace blocks Facebook, so here is the article for those of you who can't read it from the original link provided: http://www.clpmag.com/issues/articles/2012-09_04.asp Many good points have already been raised and discussed and I will not rehash them here. Here are my thoughts on the matter: - First - kudos for the NSH, state societies, committee members and histology professionals for working their butts off to provide us with information and training opportunities, and for promoting our profession. They are doing what they can to provide the water for us to drink. It is up to us to partake in it. - Why are we keeping this information in laboratory-centric publications? How in the world are we ever going to get the word out about our shortages and challenges unless we move outside of our own little box? Advance, Laboratory Medicine, NSH, etc are only read by personnel currently involved in laboratory testing. Sorry but we've been talking about this for YEARS and almost always in Lab
Re: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology
Teri, A few thoughts about your post: I totally agree with you about putting our name out there in publications other than lab-centric journals. I once had a bizarre idea that the president of NSH could appear with Matt Lauer on the Today show to promote Histo Professionals Day. Why not? Having gone thru a MLT program back in the 60's (I'm old) I can tell you that there once was a histology component in the training. I loved that part of the program. Maybe it would be good idea to welcome them into histology but have they done a really good job in promoting their profession? I think that the histotechs have done a much better job but we just don't have a very loud voice...yet. Andrea Grantham, HT (ASCP) Senior Research Specialist University of Arizona Cellular and Molecular Medicine Histology Service Laboratory P.O.Box 245044 Tucson, AZ 85724 algra...@email.arizona.edumailto:algra...@email.arizona.edu Tel: 520.626.4415 Fax: 520.626.2097 ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
[Histonet] World Record Happy Birthday
World.Record. It's been 2+ weeks since I saw a Please Remove WOW To all the active and former Air Force Histo Techs. Happy 65th B-Day Air Force. Joe Maslanka BS, CT,HT (ASCP) Anatomical Pathology Technical Supervisor St Peter's Hospital,MT 59601 (P)(406) 447-2406 (F)(406)444-2126 Give thanks for ALL things. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
[Histonet] RE: Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology
Histology was taken out of the US med tech programs decades ago. At that time histo was all cutting, HE and special stains. Since histotechs don't report out results they thought it was not really the same level as med techs so out it went. Most other countries have it as part of the med tech program and then the person specializes in their last year. That certainly makes for a more well-rounded tech. When I worked in Saudi the US techs were the least educated among all the techs from other countries working there. It was actually kind of embarrassing to see how far behind US techs were compared to their counterparts in other countries. Histotechnology is now pretty much similar to med tech in technological terms but we still don't report out anything. Of course, most of what med techs report out is just numbers from a machine. They are primarily responsible for ensuring the machine works correctly so are far more concerned about QC/QA and statistics. During lab week next year try getting a TV station into the lab for some shots. They always like tech stuff and just the mention of jobs may bring them in! (of course, the next question is, exactly how does a person get into histotechnology if there are no programs around?). Tim Morken Supervisor, Electron Microscopy/Neuromuscular Special Studies Department of Pathology UC San Francisco Medical Center tim.mor...@ucsfmedctr.org -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Teri Johnson Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:07 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Ok, my workplace blocks Facebook, so here is the article for those of you who can't read it from the original link provided: http://www.clpmag.com/issues/articles/2012-09_04.asp Many good points have already been raised and discussed and I will not rehash them here. Here are my thoughts on the matter: - First - kudos for the NSH, state societies, committee members and histology professionals for working their butts off to provide us with information and training opportunities, and for promoting our profession. They are doing what they can to provide the water for us to drink. It is up to us to partake in it. - Why are we keeping this information in laboratory-centric publications? How in the world are we ever going to get the word out about our shortages and challenges unless we move outside of our own little box? Advance, Laboratory Medicine, NSH, etc are only read by personnel currently involved in laboratory testing. Sorry but we've been talking about this for YEARS and almost always in Lab publications. Is anything happening? What about People Magazine, or USA Today, or Sunday Morning or Good Morning America? - We have long fought to keep Med Techs from coming into the histology lab and taking over the higher complexity testing because they have a 4-year degree and most of us don't. To say that it is a mistake to bring them in because only histologists fully understand the preparation process and its effects of the variation of results and can effectively work, partner with the pathologist to provide the information and testing results required to make personalized medicine a reality is like trying to hide behind a shield made of aluminum foil. If we can learn it on the job (as most of us have), then so can they. Encroachment by MTs might be the single biggest factor in promoting education in our field. - I'm wondering if anyone(in clinical laboratory education) has started thinking about putting a histology component into Med Tech training. I know their schools are in trouble as well, but maybe the answer isn't to stay separate but to consolidate? I know, some of you are howling right now because this is an emotional issue for us. But take a moment to consider that other countries require folks who do Histology to be biomedical scientists, proficient in many laboratory disciplines including Histology. If we cannot adapt and educate ourselves with or without the assistance of the NSH, local Histo groups, pathologist support or employer support then I consider this may be a potential answer to the staffing issues. - Having said all this - I like being separate from Med Techs. I like what makes us different. We make a decent wage considering the current lack of formal education requirement. I'm often surprised our profession doesn't make the list of higher paying jobs without advanced degree requirement. I am thinking that it's probably a good thing it hasn't as it might inadvertently promote the status quo. Teri Johnson HT(ASCP),QIHC Disclaimer: The thoughts conveyed above are strictly my own and do not reflect in any way on my employer, co-workers, family members, deceased pets, and future ex-husbands. ___ Histonet mailing list
[Histonet] RE:Changing dynamics in histotechnology (Jesus Ellin)
Being in HTL education I truly would love to expose, teach, and train entry level techs in the new and upcoming procedures. I am willing and ready to embark on this myself to assure my students get a good foundation in these areas, because they are the future. Alas, we have to remember that programs teach and train what is in Carson's text, because the BOC is based on that. In order to get the educational programs to teach those new and wonderful techniques, we first have to get it into the text, and then onto the exam. Our students come thinking that they will have the opportunity to learn these new techniques, but in reality the lab staff is too territorial to do this. Few want to train a new tech in these technique's, because they don't want to lose their job to them. Employers should also push continuing education for the employees, this would encourage them to learn new skills. If it is a part of the annual evaluation, then the ee's will have to complete it to get their annual raise. Get the info in Carson's and on the BOC and then the HTL trainees can learn this in a program. That would be the way to push this along, because if not then we will lose it to other areas. Toysha Message: 5 Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 19:22:19 + From: Jesus Ellin jel...@yumaregional.org Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology To: Judy O'Rourke jorou...@allied360.com Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: a589e087-ae28-4f06-9438-62b1e9b51...@yumaregional.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future. I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: 1. Digital Pathology 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3. Automation Semi to complete 4. Barcoding A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, Judy O'Rourke jorou...@allied360.com wrote: Hello... In Clinical Lab Products? just-released September issue, the article ?Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology? addresses the challenges and trends you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH Quality Control Committee, is quoted. Please share comments on CLP?s Facebook page, where I?ve just posted the article: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/pages/Clin ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 Thank you! Judy JUDY O?ROURKE | Editor Clinical Lab Products 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 office 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 jorou...@allied360.com | www.clpmag.com ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
Re: [Histonet] RE:Changing dynamics in histotechnology (Jesus Ellin)
Well said Toysha. I don't think they have even really incorporated IHC into the histology programs and that IS a routine technique now. We cannot promote in a field what we do not teach! Colleen Forster HT(ASCP)QIHC U of MN On 9/18/2012 12:06 PM, Mayer,Toysha N wrote: Being in HTL education I truly would love to expose, teach, and train entry level techs in the new and upcoming procedures. I am willing and ready to embark on this myself to assure my students get a good foundation in these areas, because they are the future. Alas, we have to remember that programs teach and train what is in Carson's text, because the BOC is based on that. In order to get the educational programs to teach those new and wonderful techniques, we first have to get it into the text, and then onto the exam. Our students come thinking that they will have the opportunity to learn these new techniques, but in reality the lab staff is too territorial to do this. Few want to train a new tech in these technique's, because they don't want to lose their job to them. Employers should also push continuing education for the employees, this would encourage them to learn new skills. If it is a part of the annual evaluation, then the ee's will have to complete it to get their annual raise. Get the info in Carson's and on the BOC and then the HTL trainees can learn this in a program. That would be the way to push this along, because if not then we will lose it to other areas. Toysha Message: 5 Date: Mon, 17 Sep 2012 19:22:19 + From: Jesus Ellin jel...@yumaregional.org Subject: Re: [Histonet] Changing dynamics in histotechnology To: Judy O'Rourke jorou...@allied360.com Cc: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Message-ID: a589e087-ae28-4f06-9438-62b1e9b51...@yumaregional.org Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252 With mixed emotions I read this article, not because of its context or information, but rather the outlook for our future. I would like to pole on the histonet today, who is enter in: 1. Digital Pathology 2. Molecular Testing (ISH, PCR, Next Gene Sequencing) 3. Automation Semi to complete 4. Barcoding A good question to ask is, are we, as Histology professionals, positioned to make this change. Case in point, how many people are signed up and preparing for this transition at the NSH convention this year? Sent from my iPad On Sep 17, 2012, at 8:29 AM, Judy O'Rourke jorou...@allied360.com wrote: Hello... In Clinical Lab Products? just-released September issue, the article ?Changing Dynamics in Histotechnology? addresses the challenges and trends you face daily. William DeSalvo, B.S., HTL(ASCP), chair, NSH Quality Control Committee, is quoted. Please share comments on CLP?s Facebook page, where I?ve just posted the article: http://www.facebook.com/pages/Clinical-Lab-Products/56624886500#!/pages/Clin ical-Lab-Products/56624886500 Thank you! Judy JUDY O?ROURKE | Editor Clinical Lab Products 6100 Center Drive, Suite 1020, Los Angeles, CA 90045 office 619.659.1065 | fax 619.659.1065 jorou...@allied360.com | www.clpmag.com ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
[Histonet] thickness of slides
Can you tell me what thickness you cut your routine slides for HE and immuno (in particular lymph nodes). Also, your protocol for cutting prostate needle core biopsies.how many spares you cut and do you designate the level on the slide label if multiple levels are submitted on one slide? Thanks Diana ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology
Well, this honey has been on the same page since the EARLY 1960'S. I crossed over from the MT side into histology and never looked back. It was obvious very early on that histology was far more interesting than working as an MT, poor pay or otherwise. Way back in the Dark Ages, our MT training included histology and the ASCP MT registry exam tested us on histology. Becoming an MT simply led to histology, and the MT training in clinical chemistry, microbiology, parasitology, virology, hematology, etc., enhanced our knowledge for working in histology. Your (plural) discourses have been interesting, to the point and certainly no offense is taken about being an MT! It is admirable when histotechnicians go above and beyond their jobs and take the time pass on their expertise to present workshops, teleconferences, presentations and writing articles with hopes the written word is actually being read. Don't stop! Ignore the critics, the complacent! Educate! Gayle M. Callis MT, HT, HTL (ASCP) -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce K. Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:16 AM To: 'joelle weaver'; tjohn...@gnf.org; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Honey! We have been trying to get this group on the same page since the 70s. We're a bit closer but we're still singing different songs... fa la la la, la la la la... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager 678-843-7376 Phone 678-843-7831 Fax joyce.we...@emoryhealthcare.org www.saintjosephsatlanta.org 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Road Atlanta, GA 30342 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of joelle weaver Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:58 AM To: tjohn...@gnf.org; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology TeriI think you are right about the promotion of the status quo, and this is a definate concern for me in staying in this field. There seems to be so much change resistance. Also, it is my understanding that many MT programs used to require histology rotations in histology here as well, but it seems many now do not. It seems to me that many MT programs are 2 +1 or 3 +1, which is fine by me, but I never thought this was the same as doing a full undergrad curriculum, and never understood why it offers MT gradstrumping for any advanced lab roles, over any other similarly educated lab person with equal or greater education and training? I have concluded that we are fighting a perception, and that is not going to be easy. Personally, I have no issue with an MT doing histology if they want to learn it sincerely by whatever means, but some seem to think that since they know clinical lab, that it does not take any additional learning, formal or otherwise. I often wonder why it seems outrageous to the same, if it were to be worked the other way? I believe that I would be ignored completely or scoffed at, if I tried to apply, or walked into a clinical lab to work. Also, I think some people in histology have put considerable effort into dialogue about our field and its needs for well prepared staff in the main-stream media, but I agree that it is far below the level of communication that will be needed to change the aforementioned perceptions. Interestingly, most histotechs I have encountered are unwilling to dedicate much time, since it is rarely for any pay, to any activities like these- since it often involves a lot of work and preparation to construct/publish an article or give a presentation out in the public arena. I know that over time, I have donated probably hundreds of hours, and most of the time it is a fight just to be allowed to do this ( such as take time off from work with your own vacation to travel or attend). If anything in my current environment, people roll their eyes at me for doing anything of this sort. If you want to encourage people to participate, we will have to work to see it supported within organizations and applauded within the group. So what usually is a frustration/dissappointment for me is when people will complain, but most won't bother to take any action ( not directed at you or anyone in particular, just expressing frustration with general lack of initiative)...anyhow your points are well taken. If we are to move forward as a group, we are going to have to get on the same page ourselves and put forth some consistent and concentrated efforts. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC From: tjohn...@gnf.org To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 00:06:37 + Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Ok, my workplace blocks Facebook, so here is the article for those of you who can't read it from the original link provided:
[Histonet] RE: thickness of slides
4 microns and 3 for lymph nodes. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Diana McCaig Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 2:00 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] thickness of slides Can you tell me what thickness you cut your routine slides for HE and immuno (in particular lymph nodes). Also, your protocol for cutting prostate needle core biopsies.how many spares you cut and do you designate the level on the slide label if multiple levels are submitted on one slide? Thanks Diana ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology
Thank you Gayle, I appreciate your comments. And no, I definately did not mean any disrespect to MT's now or ever. I know they work hard too, and they have the same hurdles in many ways. We all deserve more recognition. I just wish all us laboratorians could unite and we would be a force to be reckoned with for sure. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC From: gayle.cal...@bresnan.net To: joyce.we...@emoryhealthcare.org; joellewea...@hotmail.com; tjohn...@gnf.org; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Date: Tue, 18 Sep 2012 12:00:31 -0600 RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Well, this honey has been on the same page since the EARLY 1960'S. I crossed over from the MT side into histology and never looked back. It was obvious very early on that histology was far more interesting than working as an MT, poor pay or otherwise. Way back in the Dark Ages, our MT training included histology and the ASCP MT registry exam tested us on histology. Becoming an MT simply led to histology, and the MT training in clinical chemistry, microbiology, parasitology, virology, hematology, etc., enhanced our knowledge for working in histology. Your (plural) discourses have been interesting, to the point and certainly no offense is taken about being an MT! It is admirable when histotechnicians go above and beyond their jobs and take the time pass on their expertise to present workshops, teleconferences, presentations and writing articles with hopes the written word is actually being read. Don't stop! Ignore the critics, the complacent! Educate! Gayle M. Callis MT, HT, HTL (ASCP) -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Weems, Joyce K. Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 8:16 AM To: 'joelle weaver'; tjohn...@gnf.org; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Honey! We have been trying to get this group on the same page since the 70s. We're a bit closer but we're still singing different songs... fa la la la, la la la la... Joyce Weems Pathology Manager 678-843-7376 Phone 678-843-7831 Fax joyce.we...@emoryhealthcare.org www.saintjosephsatlanta.org 5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Road Atlanta, GA 30342 -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of joelle weaver Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:58 AM To: tjohn...@gnf.org; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: RE: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology TeriI think you are right about the promotion of the status quo, and this is a definate concern for me in staying in this field. There seems to be so much change resistance. Also, it is my understanding that many MT programs used to require histology rotations in histology here as well, but it seems many now do not. It seems to me that many MT programs are 2 +1 or 3 +1, which is fine by me, but I never thought this was the same as doing a full undergrad curriculum, and never understood why it offers MT gradstrumping for any advanced lab roles, over any other similarly educated lab person with equal or greater education and training? I have concluded that we are fighting a perception, and that is not going to be easy. Personally, I have no issue with an MT doing histology if they want to learn it sincerely by whatever means, but some seem to think that since they know clinical lab, that it does not take any additional learning, formal or otherwise. I often wonder why it seems outrageous to the same, if it were to be worked the other way? I believe that I would be ignored completely or scoffed at, if I tried to apply, or walked into a clinical lab to work. Also, I think some people in histology have put considerable effort into dialogue about our field and its needs for well prepared staff in the main-stream media, but I agree that it is far below the level of communication that will be needed to change the aforementioned perceptions. Interestingly, most histotechs I have encountered are unwilling to dedicate much time, since it is rarely for any pay, to any activities like these- since it often involves a lot of work and preparation to construct/publish an article or give a presentation out in the public arena. I know that over time, I have donated probably hundreds of hours, and most of the time it is a fight just to be allowed to do this ( such as take time off from work with your own vacation to travel or attend). If anything in my current environment, people roll their eyes at me for doing anything of this sort. If you want to encourage people to participate, we will have to work to see it supported within organizations and applauded within the group. So what usually is a
[Histonet] RE: thickness of slides
Routine at 4, lymph nodes/bone marrows at 2, GI/prostate at 3 Prostate we cut 3 shallow levels. pick up 2 extra slides from the second level as unstained which get used for p63/PIN cocktail (p504s/p63) if requested Each slide has one level...2 sections per slide Vanessa -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Diana McCaig Sent: Tuesday, September 18, 2012 1:00 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] thickness of slides Can you tell me what thickness you cut your routine slides for HE and immuno (in particular lymph nodes). Also, your protocol for cutting prostate needle core biopsies.how many spares you cut and do you designate the level on the slide label if multiple levels are submitted on one slide? Thanks Diana ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
[Histonet] RE: Changing dynamics in histotechnology
I worked as a generalist for 4 yrs and then was in Microbiology for 8 yrs prior to moving to Histology in 1990. I have always felt the experience of working in the other areas of lab helped me understand the entire process, especially those involving fluids which were shared between multiple disciplines within clinical laboratory. We have an MT school and many of those students ask to spend time in Histology to observe. I appreciate their interest and willingness to learn how AP and Clinical Lab fit together. I have promoted the field by encouraging tours with local high school students taking Anatomy, Advanced Chemistry and Advanced Biology classes. Several of these students are now working as MTs, CTs and HTs. I now have a daughter interested in Histology because of the many trips to the lab to visit me. She will be moving to the KC area and will be completing her AS there. I just hope she can find a hospital willing to teach her Histology as there are no schools in the area. If anyone has a contact or would be willing to mentor please let me know. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Teri Johnson Sent: Monday, September 17, 2012 5:07 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Re: Changing dynamics in histotechnology Ok, my workplace blocks Facebook, so here is the article for those of you who can't read it from the original link provided: http://www.clpmag.com/issues/articles/2012-09_04.asp Many good points have already been raised and discussed and I will not rehash them here. Here are my thoughts on the matter: - First - kudos for the NSH, state societies, committee members and histology professionals for working their butts off to provide us with information and training opportunities, and for promoting our profession. They are doing what they can to provide the water for us to drink. It is up to us to partake in it. - Why are we keeping this information in laboratory-centric publications? How in the world are we ever going to get the word out about our shortages and challenges unless we move outside of our own little box? Advance, Laboratory Medicine, NSH, etc are only read by personnel currently involved in laboratory testing. Sorry but we've been talking about this for YEARS and almost always in Lab publications. Is anything happening? What about People Magazine, or USA Today, or Sunday Morning or Good Morning America? - We have long fought to keep Med Techs from coming into the histology lab and taking over the higher complexity testing because they have a 4-year degree and most of us don't. To say that it is a mistake to bring them in because only histologists fully understand the preparation process and its effects of the variation of results and can effectively work, partner with the pathologist to provide the information and testing results required to make personalized medicine a reality is like trying to hide behind a shield made of aluminum foil. If we can learn it on the job (as most of us have), then so can they. Encroachment by MTs might be the single biggest factor in promoting education in our field. - I'm wondering if anyone(in clinical laboratory education) has started thinking about putting a histology component into Med Tech training. I know their schools are in trouble as well, but maybe the answer isn't to stay separate but to consolidate? I know, some of you are howling right now because this is an emotional issue for us. But take a moment to consider that other countries require folks who do Histology to be biomedical scientists, proficient in many laboratory disciplines including Histology. If we cannot adapt and educate ourselves with or without the assistance of the NSH, local Histo groups, pathologist support or employer support then I consider this may be a potential answer to the staffing issues. - Having said all this - I like being separate from Med Techs. I like what makes us different. We make a decent wage considering the current lack of formal education requirement. I'm often surprised our profession doesn't make the list of higher paying jobs without advanced degree requirement. I am thinking that it's probably a good thing it hasn't as it might inadvertently promote the status quo. Teri Johnson HT(ASCP),QIHC Disclaimer: The thoughts conveyed above are strictly my own and do not reflect in any way on my employer, co-workers, family members, deceased pets, and future ex-husbands. ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet Cindi Robinson HT(ASCP) Mercy Medical Center Dunes Medical Laboratories 350
