[Histonet] RE: Leica Bond III Opinions

2013-02-07 Thread Michelle Lamphere
I would love to hear any feedback that you get from this query. 


Michelle M Lamphere, HT (ASCP)
Senior Tech, Histology
Children's Medical Center 
1935 Medical District Drive
Dallas, TX  75235
Office :214-456-2798
Histology: 214-456-2318
Fax:  214-456-0779




Could I get the opinions of any labs using the Leica Bond III for IHC staining? 
I'm especially 
interested to hear from those that switched from Ventana to Leica, but any 
feedback is appreciated.
 
Few questions that come to mind:
Are you happy with the quality of the stains you're performing on the Bond III? 
Are there antibodies that you were not able to run on the Bond III?
Is the machine reliable, or does it break down often, requiring technical 
service?
How arduous is cleaning and managing the cover tiles?
Are the three black slide drawers durable?
 
 
Thank you,
Roger Heyna
Maywood, IL



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[Histonet] RE: High complexity test

2013-02-07 Thread Tim Higgins

Hey Kathy,

 

It is not considered a High Complexity test on the staining side of it.  You 
don't need any special degree or certification, I know we all want our 
profession to fetch more money and respect and a good way is make a mountain 
out of molehill to use an old saying.  

Now here is the gray area, the high complexity could come with the resulting of 
the stains, such as ER, PR, HER2 using an semi-quantitative detection and 
algorithms.  

The simple robotics of staining is not considered high complexity, you do 
need knowledge and understanding of how detection kits work and antibodies 
react so and so forth, but its still not considered high complexity.

 

Best way is to call CAP or whatever governing body your under and ask the 
question and document who you spoke with if there is nothing in writing.

 

Tim H.

 

 

 

   From: Sara Baldwin/mhhcc.org sbald...@mhhcc.org
   To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
   Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 2:54 PM
   Subject: [Histonet] High complexity test
  
   Hi histonetters
   Is ventana Ultra IHC only doing antibodies no FISH or CISH is this
  considered High complexity testing? We are doing ER/PR and some others.
  
   Thanks
   Histology/Cytology Supervisor
   S. Kathy Baldwin, SCT (ASCP)
   Memorial Hospital and Health Care Center sbald...@mhhcc.org Ph
   812-996-0210, 0216, Fax 812-996-0232, Pager 812-481-0897, Cell
   812-887-3357 ___
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[Histonet] Processor dehydration cycles..

2013-02-07 Thread Tom McNemar
Hello all,

I was wondering what most people use as the first reagent after the formalins 
on their tissue processor?  We have always used a sequence of 70%, 80%, 95%, 
and 100% but is anyone using 80% or even 95% to start their dehydration?

Thanks in advance.

Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP)
Histology Co-ordinator
Licking Memorial Health Systems
(740) 348-4163
(740) 348-4166
tmcne...@lmhealth.orgmailto:tmcne...@lmhealth.org
www.LMHealth.orgfile:///C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\TMCNEMAR\Application%20Data\Microsoft\Signatures\www.LMHealth.org


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[Histonet] embedding problem

2013-02-07 Thread Baker, John
I had to sign up again for the Histonet so I am not sure if this question went 
out so will resend.  thanks
Hello Histonetters,  We are trying to embed a polycarbonate device with soft 
tissue attached to look at the implant interface.  The problem is that with 
several standard protocols for pmma processing the clearing agent (methyl 
salicylate or xylene) and the methacrylate monomer dissolves the polycarbonate. 
 Does anyone have any experience trying process such a thing, an embedding 
media (pmma, OCT for cryo, etc.), and then a method of sectioning it keeping 
the interface intact?  Thanks in advance for any suggestions! John

John A. Baker
The University of Michigan
Orthopaedic Research Laboratories
Histology Unit
109 Zina Pitcher Place, 2218 BSRB
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2200
734-936-1635

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Re: [Histonet] High complexity test

2013-02-07 Thread Rene J Buesa
I only hope that Tim's posting sets this issue to rest. The histotech doing 
IHC, FISH, or grossing and some other complex tasks has to have special 
training and studies because all those are high complexity tests.
Even those histotechs reading FISH results (counting the reactive nuclei for 
latter signing by the pathologist) have to receive special training.
I will just point out again that some administrators try to underrate these 
tests in order to train their monkeys and pay less even when the ratio 
billing/cost is extremely high.
Management greed drives sometimes these issues.
René J.

From: Morken, Timothy timothy.mor...@ucsfmedctr.org
To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 5:47 PM
Subject: RE: [Histonet] High complexity test

The CLIA definition of High Complexity testing is not absolute, rather High 
Complexity Testing is determined by a scored algorithm of the entire Test 
System (preanalytical through Post Analytical).

As such, it clearly takes into account the laboratory or other personnel 
performing all the specimen collection, grossing, processing, cutting in the 
pre-analytical phase, and the Testing Personnel (CLIA Definition) performing 
the analytical phase (preparing slides, reagents, applying reagents, quality 
control, etc) and post analytical phase(interpretation) .

The Pathologist's role is only part of that and is scored accordingly. CLIA 
clearly considers the IHC Test System as High Complexity and requires a 
technologist for the IHC portion with at least and Associates degree (or 
equivalent, including course and experience in appropriate science and testing) 
for Testing Personnel.

So, I don't think it is correct to dismiss any personnel standards as 
irrelevant simply because a pathologist will do the interpretation.

Note that if ANY High Complexity tests are performed in the lab then the lab 
must have a CLIA certification for High Complexity Testing.


References: 

CLIA website with the personnel regulations:  
http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/subpart_m.aspx

CAP QA about personnel standards for IHC, ISH and IF  
http://www.cap.org/apps/docs/education/lapaudio/pdf/031710_qa.pdf

Relevant IHC question reproduced below:
Q 17. My question refers more specifically to 
immunofluorescence, in situ 
hybridization and 
immunohistochemistry. Are the techs 
that perform these tests considered 
high complexity testing personnel?  If 
the techs are reporting any kind of 
preliminary result, they must be 
qualified to do high complexity testing.  
If all they are doing is applying the 
stain, then that is considered 
processing.
A: Personnel performing immunofluorescence, 
immunohistochemistry and in-situ hybridization 
techniques require qualifications applicable to high 
complexity testing. Personnel performing histology 
processing using routine standardized staining 
procedures (not classified as molecular) do not fall 
under CLIA as testing personnel and do not have 
qualification requirements define


CLIA website detailing test categorization: 
http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/subpart_a.aspx#493.17

Excerpt here about High vs Moderate complexity (low complexity are basically 
home use tests)

    Sec. 493.17  Test categorization.
      
    (a) Categorization by criteria. Notices will be published in the
      Federal Register which list each specific test system, assay, and
      examination categorized by complexity. Using the seven criteria
      specified in this paragraph for categorizing tests of moderate or high
      complexity, each specific laboratory test system, assay, and examination
      will be graded for level of complexity by assigning scores of 1, 2, or 3
      within each criteria. The score of 1 indicates the lowest level of
      complexity, and the score of 3 indicates the highest level. These
      scores will be totaled. Test systems, assays or examinations receiving
      scores of 12 or less will be categorized as moderate complexity, while
      those receiving scores above 12 will be categorized as high complexity.
      
    Note: A score of 2 will be assigned to a criteria heading when
      the characteristics for a particular test are intermediate between the
      descriptions listed for scores of 1 and 3.
      
    (1) Knowledge.
    (i) Score 1. (A) Minimal scientific and technical knowledge is
      required to perform the test; and
    (B) Knowledge required to perform the test may be obtained through
      on-the-job instruction.
    (ii) Score 3. Specialized scientific and technical knowledge is
      essential to perform preanalytic, analytic or postanalytic phases of the
      testing.
    (2) Training and experience.
    (i) Score 1. (A) Minimal training is required for preanalytic,
      analytic and postanalytic phases of the testing process; and
    (B) Limited experience is required to perform the test.
    (ii) Score 3. (A) Specialized training is essential to 

[Histonet] Xylene/Paint Thinner

2013-02-07 Thread White, Lisa M.
If you look on the paint thinner isle at your local Lowe's.  You will
find Xylene on the shelf.  The first time I saw it was a shock.  Wonder
if the home improvement  weekend warriors know what they are getting all
over their hands?

 

Lisa White, HT(ASCP)

Supervisory HT

James H. Quillen VAMC

PO Box 4000

Corner of Veterans Way and Lamont

PLMS 113

Mountain Home, TN 37684

423-979-3567

423-979-3401 fax

 

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[Histonet] RE: Processor dehydration cycles..

2013-02-07 Thread Weems, Joyce K.
You have to be careful or the salts will precipitate out of the formalin if you 
start too high. I wouldn't go any higher than 70.

Joyce Weems
Pathology Manager
678-843-7376 Phone
678-843-7831 Fax
joyce.we...@emoryhealthcare.org



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5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Road
Atlanta, GA 30342

This e-mail, including any attachments is the property of Saint Joseph's 
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-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tom McNemar
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 10:15 AM
To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] Processor dehydration cycles..

Hello all,

I was wondering what most people use as the first reagent after the formalins 
on their tissue processor?  We have always used a sequence of 70%, 80%, 95%, 
and 100% but is anyone using 80% or even 95% to start their dehydration?

Thanks in advance.

Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP)
Histology Co-ordinator
Licking Memorial Health Systems
(740) 348-4163
(740) 348-4166
tmcne...@lmhealth.orgmailto:tmcne...@lmhealth.org
www.LMHealth.orgfile:///C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\TMCNEMAR\Application%20Data\Microsoft\Signatures\www.LMHealth.org


This e-mail, including attachments, is intended for the sole use of the 
individual and/or entity to whom it is addressed, and contains information from 
Licking Memorial Health Systems which is confidential or privileged. If you are 
not the intended recipient, nor authorized to receive for the intended 
recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the 
contents of this e-mail and attachments is prohibited. If you have received 
this in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message 
immediately. You may also contact the LMH Process Improvement Center at 
740-348-4641. E-mail transmissions cannot be guaranteed to be secure or 
error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, 
arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not 
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Re: [Histonet] Processor dehydration cycles..

2013-02-07 Thread Rene J Buesa
I usually started with 80%EthOL but it does not harm starting with 70%EthOL 
and it is even better, from the theoretically view point. So if you have the 
space in your protocol, keep the 70%EthOL
René J.

From: Tom McNemar tmcne...@lmhealth.org
To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 10:14 AM
Subject: [Histonet] Processor dehydration cycles..

Hello all,

I was wondering what most people use as the first reagent after the formalins 
on their tissue processor?  We have always used a sequence of 70%, 80%, 95%, 
and 100% but is anyone using 80% or even 95% to start their dehydration?

Thanks in advance.

Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP)
Histology Co-ordinator
Licking Memorial Health Systems
(740) 348-4163
(740) 348-4166
tmcne...@lmhealth.orgmailto:tmcne...@lmhealth.org
www.LMHealth.orgfile:///C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\TMCNEMAR\Application%20Data\Microsoft\Signatures\www.LMHealth.org


This e-mail, including attachments, is intended for the sole use of the 
individual and/or entity to whom it is addressed, and contains information from 
Licking Memorial Health Systems which is confidential or privileged. If you are 
not the intended recipient, nor authorized to receive for the intended 
recipient, be aware that any disclosure, copying, distribution or use of the 
contents of this e-mail and attachments is prohibited. If you have received 
this in error, please advise the sender by reply e-mail and delete the message 
immediately. You may also contact the LMH Process Improvement Center at 
740-348-4641. E-mail transmissions cannot be guaranteed to be secure or 
error-free as information could be intercepted, corrupted, lost, destroyed, 
arrive late or incomplete, or contain viruses. The sender therefore does not 
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[Histonet] RE: embedding problem

2013-02-07 Thread Elizabeth Chlipala
John

Have you tried paraffin?  I know that we have been able to section some plastic 
devices with paraffin sections, it may be worth a try.  Looks like the device 
you are working with is compatable with xylene, we have found in some cases 
that we need to use a xylene subsititute.

Liz

Elizabeth A. Chlipala, BS, HTL(ASCP)QIHC
Premier Laboratory, LLC
PO Box 18592
Boulder, CO 80308
(303) 682-3949 office
(303) 881-0763 cell
(303) 682-9060 fax
l...@premierlab.com

Ship to address:

Premier Laboratory, LLC
1567 Skyway Drive, Unit E
Longmont, CO 80504

From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Baker, John 
[bak...@med.umich.edu]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 8:19 AM
To: Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] embedding problem

I had to sign up again for the Histonet so I am not sure if this question went 
out so will resend.  thanks
Hello Histonetters,  We are trying to embed a polycarbonate device with soft 
tissue attached to look at the implant interface.  The problem is that with 
several standard protocols for pmma processing the clearing agent (methyl 
salicylate or xylene) and the methacrylate monomer dissolves the polycarbonate. 
 Does anyone have any experience trying process such a thing, an embedding 
media (pmma, OCT for cryo, etc.), and then a method of sectioning it keeping 
the interface intact?  Thanks in advance for any suggestions! John

John A. Baker
The University of Michigan
Orthopaedic Research Laboratories
Histology Unit
109 Zina Pitcher Place, 2218 BSRB
Ann Arbor, MI 48109-2200
734-936-1635

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Re: [Histonet] Xylene/Paint Thinner

2013-02-07 Thread Rene J Buesa
For sure they do not know, I have asked a few painters. As many histotechs, 
they have told me that the like the smell of xylene.
René J.

From: White, Lisa M. lisa.whi...@va.gov
To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 10:23 AM
Subject: [Histonet] Xylene/Paint Thinner

If you look on the paint thinner isle at your local Lowe's.  You will
find Xylene on the shelf.  The first time I saw it was a shock.  Wonder
if the home improvement  weekend warriors know what they are getting all
over their hands?



Lisa White, HT(ASCP)

Supervisory HT

James H. Quillen VAMC

PO Box 4000

Corner of Veterans Way and Lamont

PLMS 113

Mountain Home, TN 37684

423-979-3567

423-979-3401 fax



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Re: [Histonet] Xylene/Paint Thinner

2013-02-07 Thread Adrienne Anderson
I have to admit, I don't mind the smell:) But I also like the smell of 
gasoline, and I know both are bad for me!

Thanks again to everyone who has offered feedback on this topic. Rene, I have 
printed out a few of the articles you've written and am anxious to research 
these methods more. Thanks a bunch!

Best,
Adrienne


On Feb 7, 2013, at 10:36 AM, Rene J Buesa wrote:

 For sure they do not know, I have asked a few painters. As many histotechs, 
 they have told me that the like the smell of xylene.
 René J.
 
 From: White, Lisa M. lisa.whi...@va.gov
 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
 Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 10:23 AM
 Subject: [Histonet] Xylene/Paint Thinner
 
 If you look on the paint thinner isle at your local Lowe's.  You will
 find Xylene on the shelf.  The first time I saw it was a shock.  Wonder
 if the home improvement  weekend warriors know what they are getting all
 over their hands?
 
 
 
 Lisa White, HT(ASCP)
 
 Supervisory HT
 
 James H. Quillen VAMC
 
 PO Box 4000
 
 Corner of Veterans Way and Lamont
 
 PLMS 113
 
 Mountain Home, TN 37684
 
 423-979-3567
 
 423-979-3401 fax
 
 
 
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[Histonet] RE: Xylene/Paint Thinner

2013-02-07 Thread Victor A. Tobias
I don't know if the auto parts stores carry xylene, but it is an awesome 
degreaser. Learned that from my mentor back in the 70's.

Victor

Victor Tobias HT(ASCP)
Clinical Applications Analyst
Harborview Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room NJB244
Seattle, WA 98104
vtob...@u.washington.edu
206-744-2735
206-744-8240 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be contained 
in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the intended 
recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the message has been 
addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, 
disseminate or otherwise use this 
transmission. Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then 
destroy all copies of the message and any attachments.

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of White, Lisa M.
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 7:24 AM
To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] Xylene/Paint Thinner

If you look on the paint thinner isle at your local Lowe's.  You will
find Xylene on the shelf.  The first time I saw it was a shock.  Wonder
if the home improvement  weekend warriors know what they are getting all
over their hands?

 

Lisa White, HT(ASCP)

Supervisory HT

James H. Quillen VAMC

PO Box 4000

Corner of Veterans Way and Lamont

PLMS 113

Mountain Home, TN 37684

423-979-3567

423-979-3401 fax

 

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RE: [Histonet] RE: Xylene/Paint Thinner

2013-02-07 Thread Victor A. Tobias
I'm sure my wife would love that.

Victor Tobias HT(ASCP)
Clinical Applications Analyst
Harborview Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room NJB244
Seattle, WA 98104
vtob...@u.washington.edumailto:vtob...@u.washington.edu
206-744-2735
206-744-8240 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be contained 
in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the intended 
recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the message has been 
addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, 
disseminate or otherwise use this
transmission. Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then 
destroy all copies of the message and any attachments.

From: Rene J Buesa [mailto:rjbu...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 8:14 AM
To: Victor A. Tobias; 'White, Lisa M.'; 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'
Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: Xylene/Paint Thinner

If you ever need to degrease any auto part, just place it in water, add liquid 
soap to about 5% conc., and heat it until boiling and let them in boiling water 
during 5 minutes. Wash with running tap water and dry.
They will degrease even better tan with xylene.
René J.

From: Victor A. Tobias vtob...@uw.edu
To: 'White, Lisa M.' lisa.whi...@va.gov; 
'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu' histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 11:06 AM
Subject: [Histonet] RE: Xylene/Paint Thinner

I don't know if the auto parts stores carry xylene, but it is an awesome 
degreaser. Learned that from my mentor back in the 70's.

Victor

Victor Tobias HT(ASCP)
Clinical Applications Analyst
Harborview Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room NJB244
Seattle, WA 98104
vtob...@u.washington.edumailto:vtob...@u.washington.edu
206-744-2735
206-744-8240 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be contained 
in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the intended 
recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the message has been 
addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, 
disseminate or otherwise use this
transmission. Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then 
destroy all copies of the message and any attachments.

-Original Message-
From: 
histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edumailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edumailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu]
 On Behalf Of White, Lisa M.
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 7:24 AM
To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edumailto:histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] Xylene/Paint Thinner

If you look on the paint thinner isle at your local Lowe's.  You will
find Xylene on the shelf.  The first time I saw it was a shock.  Wonder
if the home improvement  weekend warriors know what they are getting all
over their hands?



Lisa White, HT(ASCP)

Supervisory HT

James H. Quillen VAMC

PO Box 4000

Corner of Veterans Way and Lamont

PLMS 113

Mountain Home, TN 37684

423-979-3567

423-979-3401 fax



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Re: [Histonet] RE: Xylene/Paint Thinner

2013-02-07 Thread Rene J Buesa
If you ever need to degrease any auto part, just place it in water, add liquid 
soap to about 5% conc., and heat it until boiling and let them in boiling water 
during 5 minutes. Wash with running tap water and dry.
They will degrease even better tan with xylene.
René J.

From: Victor A. Tobias vtob...@uw.edu
To: 'White, Lisa M.' lisa.whi...@va.gov; 
'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu' histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 11:06 AM
Subject: [Histonet] RE: Xylene/Paint Thinner

I don't know if the auto parts stores carry xylene, but it is an awesome 
degreaser. Learned that from my mentor back in the 70's.

Victor

Victor Tobias HT(ASCP)
Clinical Applications Analyst
Harborview Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room NJB244
Seattle, WA 98104
vtob...@u.washington.edu
206-744-2735
206-744-8240 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be contained 
in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the intended 
recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the message has been 
addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, 
disseminate or otherwise use this 
transmission. Instead, please notify the sender by reply e-mail, and then 
destroy all copies of the message and any attachments.

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of White, Lisa M.
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 7:24 AM
To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] Xylene/Paint Thinner

If you look on the paint thinner isle at your local Lowe's.  You will
find Xylene on the shelf.  The first time I saw it was a shock.  Wonder
if the home improvement  weekend warriors know what they are getting all
over their hands?



Lisa White, HT(ASCP)

Supervisory HT

James H. Quillen VAMC

PO Box 4000

Corner of Veterans Way and Lamont

PLMS 113

Mountain Home, TN 37684

423-979-3567

423-979-3401 fax



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[Histonet] FW: Processor dehydration cycles..

2013-02-07 Thread PRESZLER, JEREMIAH C MSgt USAF AETC 59 LSQ/SGVLH

I agree with Joyce on this: Formalin salt precipitate tends to become more 
common if you start above 70%. WE use a 70%, then 80% and two 95% in our 
process here.


Very Respectfully,

Jeremiah C. Preszler, MSgt, USAF HT (ASCP)
Flight Chief, Anatomic Pathology
959 CSPS/ SGVLH
WHASC
JBSA-Lackland AFB, TX 78236
(210) 292-5519
DSN: 662-5519




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RE: [Histonet] RE: Xylene/Paint Thinner

2013-02-07 Thread Weems, Joyce K.
And Dawn is the best...

And I am in no way linked to this product!!

Joyce Weems
Pathology Manager
678-843-7376 Phone
678-843-7831 Fax
joyce.we...@emoryhealthcare.org



www.saintjosephsatlanta.org
5665 Peachtree Dunwoody Road
Atlanta, GA 30342

This e-mail, including any attachments is the property of Saint Joseph's 
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-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 11:14 AM
To: Victor A. Tobias; 'White, Lisa M.'; 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'
Subject: Re: [Histonet] RE: Xylene/Paint Thinner

If you ever need to degrease any auto part, just place it in water, add liquid 
soap to about 5% conc., and heat it until boiling and let them in boiling water 
during 5 minutes. Wash with running tap water and dry.
They will degrease even better tan with xylene.
René J.

From: Victor A. Tobias vtob...@uw.edu
To: 'White, Lisa M.' lisa.whi...@va.gov; 
'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu' histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Sent: Thursday, February 7, 2013 11:06 AM
Subject: [Histonet] RE: Xylene/Paint Thinner

I don't know if the auto parts stores carry xylene, but it is an awesome 
degreaser. Learned that from my mentor back in the 70's.

Victor

Victor Tobias HT(ASCP)
Clinical Applications Analyst
Harborview Medical Center
Dept of Pathology Room NJB244
Seattle, WA 98104
vtob...@u.washington.edu
206-744-2735
206-744-8240 Fax
=
Privileged, confidential or patient identifiable information may be contained 
in this message. This information is meant only for the use of the intended 
recipients. If you are not the intended recipient, or if the message has been 
addressed to you in error, do not read, disclose, reproduce, distribute, 
disseminate or otherwise use this transmission. Instead, please notify the 
sender by reply e-mail, and then destroy all copies of the message and any 
attachments.

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of White, Lisa M.
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 7:24 AM
To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] Xylene/Paint Thinner

If you look on the paint thinner isle at your local Lowe's.  You will find 
Xylene on the shelf.  The first time I saw it was a shock.  Wonder if the home 
improvement  weekend warriors know what they are getting all over their 
hands?



Lisa White, HT(ASCP)

Supervisory HT

James H. Quillen VAMC

PO Box 4000

Corner of Veterans Way and Lamont

PLMS 113

Mountain Home, TN 37684

423-979-3567

423-979-3401 fax



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[Histonet] RE: Processor dehydration cycles..

2013-02-07 Thread Morken, Timothy
Tom, We start at 80%.

Tim Morken
UCSF Pathology

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tom McNemar
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 7:15 AM
To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] Processor dehydration cycles..

Hello all,

I was wondering what most people use as the first reagent after the formalins 
on their tissue processor?  We have always used a sequence of 70%, 80%, 95%, 
and 100% but is anyone using 80% or even 95% to start their dehydration?

Thanks in advance.

Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP)
Histology Co-ordinator
Licking Memorial Health Systems
(740) 348-4163
(740) 348-4166
tmcne...@lmhealth.orgmailto:tmcne...@lmhealth.org
www.LMHealth.orgfile:///C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\TMCNEMAR\Application%20Data\Microsoft\Signatures\www.LMHealth.org


This e-mail, including attachments, is intended for the sole use of the 
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Re: [Histonet] High complexity test

2013-02-07 Thread Mark Tarango
FISH is definitely high complexity.  The tech who scores the slide must
meet the qualifications to perform high complexity testing.  I understood
Kathy's question to be about the person who loads and runs the
slide stainer.

I still say give CAP or whomever you accrediting agency is a call and see
what they say.  Histonet advice is just that.

Mark

On Thu, Feb 7, 2013 at 7:22 AM, Rene J Buesa rjbu...@yahoo.com wrote:

 I only hope that Tim's posting sets this issue to rest. The histotech
 doing IHC, FISH, or grossing and some other complex tasks has to have
 special training and studies because all those are high complexity tests.
 Even those histotechs reading FISH results (counting the reactive nuclei
 for latter signing by the pathologist) have to receive special training.
 I will just point out again that some administrators try to underrate
 these tests in order to train their monkeys and pay less even when the
 ratio billing/cost is extremely high.
 Management greed drives sometimes these issues.
 René J.

 From: Morken, Timothy timothy.mor...@ucsfmedctr.org
 To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
 
 Sent: Wednesday, February 6, 2013 5:47 PM
 Subject: RE: [Histonet] High complexity test

 The CLIA definition of High Complexity testing is not absolute, rather
 High Complexity Testing is determined by a scored algorithm of the entire
 Test System (preanalytical through Post Analytical).

 As such, it clearly takes into account the laboratory or other personnel
 performing all the specimen collection, grossing, processing, cutting in
 the pre-analytical phase, and the Testing Personnel (CLIA Definition)
 performing the analytical phase (preparing slides, reagents, applying
 reagents, quality control, etc) and post analytical phase(interpretation) .

 The Pathologist's role is only part of that and is scored accordingly.
 CLIA clearly considers the IHC Test System as High Complexity and requires
 a technologist for the IHC portion with at least and Associates degree (or
 equivalent, including course and experience in appropriate science and
 testing) for Testing Personnel.

 So, I don't think it is correct to dismiss any personnel standards as
 irrelevant simply because a pathologist will do the interpretation.

 Note that if ANY High Complexity tests are performed in the lab then the
 lab must have a CLIA certification for High Complexity Testing.


 References:

 CLIA website with the personnel regulations:
 http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/subpart_m.aspx

 CAP QA about personnel standards for IHC, ISH and IF
 http://www.cap.org/apps/docs/education/lapaudio/pdf/031710_qa.pdf

 Relevant IHC question reproduced below:
 Q 17. My question refers more specifically to
 immunofluorescence, in situ
 hybridization and
 immunohistochemistry. Are the techs
 that perform these tests considered
 high complexity testing personnel?  If
 the techs are reporting any kind of
 preliminary result, they must be
 qualified to do high complexity testing.
 If all they are doing is applying the
 stain, then that is considered
 processing.
 A: Personnel performing immunofluorescence,
 immunohistochemistry and in-situ hybridization
 techniques require qualifications applicable to high
 complexity testing. Personnel performing histology
 processing using routine standardized staining
 procedures (not classified as molecular) do not fall
 under CLIA as testing personnel and do not have
 qualification requirements define


 CLIA website detailing test categorization:
 http://wwwn.cdc.gov/clia/regs/subpart_a.aspx#493.17

 Excerpt here about High vs Moderate complexity (low complexity are
 basically home use tests)

 Sec. 493.17  Test categorization.

 (a) Categorization by criteria. Notices will be published in the
   Federal Register which list each specific test system, assay, and
   examination categorized by complexity. Using the seven criteria
   specified in this paragraph for categorizing tests of moderate or
 high
   complexity, each specific laboratory test system, assay, and
 examination
   will be graded for level of complexity by assigning scores of 1, 2,
 or 3
   within each criteria. The score of 1 indicates the lowest level of
   complexity, and the score of 3 indicates the highest level. These
   scores will be totaled. Test systems, assays or examinations
 receiving
   scores of 12 or less will be categorized as moderate complexity,
 while
   those receiving scores above 12 will be categorized as high
 complexity.

 Note: A score of 2 will be assigned to a criteria heading when
   the characteristics for a particular test are intermediate between
 the
   descriptions listed for scores of 1 and 3.

 (1) Knowledge.
 (i) Score 1. (A) Minimal scientific and technical knowledge is
   required to perform the test; and
 (B) Knowledge required to perform the test may be obtained through
   on-the-job instruction.
 

[Histonet] Processor dehydration cycles

2013-02-07 Thread Tim Wheelock

Hi Tom:

I deal exclusively with post-mortum brain tissue, so my situation may 
not apply to you.
I do not use formalin on my processor, since the half brain used for 
brain-cutting has already been thoroughly fixed.
So, I have the luxury of using 30%, 50%, 80%, 95%, then three 100% 
Isopropanols.

They used this protocol when I was at a different neuropathology laboratory.
I believe the rational for this was that starting with a lower 
concentration of alcohol, and then more gradually increasing the 
concentrations, would reduce the concentration gradient between the 
cells and the solution, and so avoid strong currents from harming the cells.

Also, brain tissue may be more delicate that say prostate, skin or uterus.
By the way, I actually do not know whether this rational is correct or 
not.

However, in general, if you can start at 70%, it can't do any harm.

Tim

Tim Wheelock
Harvard Brain Bank
McLean Hospital
Belmont, MA
(617) 855-359


Tom McNemar wrote:
 Hello all,

 I was wondering what most people use as the first reagent after the 
formalins on their tissue processor?  We have always used a sequence of 
70%, 80%, 95%, and 100% but is anyone using 80% or even 95% to start 
their dehydration?


 Thanks in advance.

 Tom McNemar, HT(ASCP)
 Histology Co-ordinator
 Licking Memorial Health Systems
 (740) 348-4163
 (740) 348-4166
 tmcne...@lmhealth.orgmailto:tmcne...@lmhealth.org
 
www.LMHealth.orgfile:///C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\TMCNEMAR\Application%20Data\Microsoft\Signatures\www.LMHealth.org 



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[Histonet] Disposal of old blocks Slides

2013-02-07 Thread JMaslanka
How do you dispose of old tissue blocks after the 10 year hold period? Can 
old glass tissue slides be sent for recycling?
Thanks in advance


Joe Maslanka BS, CT,HT (ASCP)
Anatomical Pathology Technical Supervisor
St Peter's Hospital,MT 59601
(P)(406) 447-2406
(F)(406)444-2126 

Give thanks for ALL things.
Kindness is the language the blind can see  the deaf can hear- Mark 
Twain
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[Histonet] Re: Leica Bond III Opinions

2013-02-07 Thread Roger Heyna
Forwarding a message I received:
 
Hi Roger,
I've been using the Lieca Bonds for about 4 years now and I wouldn't trade for 
anything. The lab I am currently at changed everything from Ventana over to 
Bonds about a year and a half ago, and we have NO regrets!
Bonds are faster, more flexible with protocols, and have been producing higher 
quality staining. The test is also cheaper on Bonds than on Ventana. For me, I 
think the flexibility with protocols and the reliable, consistent, good 
staining is the real bonus.
Your questions:
Are you happy with the quality of the stains you're performing on the Bond III? 
- ABSOLUTELY, NO REGRETS

Are there antibodies that you were not able to run on the Bond III? - NONE SO 
FAR. I USE ANTIBODIES FROM VARIOUS SUPPLIERS, I DON'T LIMIT MYSELF TO JUST 
LEICA ANTIBODIES

Is the machine reliable, or does it break down often, requiring technical 
service? - RARELY NEEDS TECHNICAL SERVICE, I DO NOTE THAT KEEPING THE SLIDE 
ASSEMBLY PADS CLEAN (ESPECIALLY THE DRAIN HOLES) IS IMPORTANT FOR OPTIMAL 
STAINING. WE DO A GOOD CLEANING MONTHLY

How arduous is cleaning and managing the cover tiles? SIMPLE ENOUGH. USED TILES 
ARE SLID INTO A RACK SITTING IN DISTILLED WATER AFTER USE. WHEN THE RACK IS 
FILLED, WE ADD SOME BLEACH, LET SIT FOR 20 - 3O MINUTES, RINSE THE WHOLE RACK 
WELL IN DISTILLED, RINSE IN ABSOLUTE ALCOHOL, SIT OUT TO DRY
.
Are the three black slide drawers durable? I'VE NEVER HAD ONE BREAK OR WARP.
Anything else I can answer?
Beth Cox, HTL/SCT(ASCP)QIHC
Message: 7
Date: Wed, 06 Feb 2013 13:15:35 -0600
From: Roger Heyna rhe...@lumc.edu
Subject: [Histonet] Leica Bond III Opinions
To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Message-ID: 51125777022300049...@gwgwia1.luhs.org
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Could I get the opinions of any labs using the Leica Bond III for IHC staining? 
I'm especially
interested to hear from those that switched from Ventana to Leica, but any 
feedback is appreciated.
Few questions that come to mind:
Are you happy with the quality of the stains you're performing on the Bond III?
Are there antibodies that you were not able to run on the Bond III?
Is the machine reliable, or does it break down often, requiring technical 
service?
How arduous is cleaning and managing the cover tiles?
Are the three black slide drawers durable?

Thank you,
Roger Heyna
Maywood, IL
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[Histonet] Processor dehydration cycles

2013-02-07 Thread Parker, Helayne

-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Tom McNemar
Hello all,

I was wondering what most people use as the first reagent after the 
formalins on their tissue processor?  We have always used a sequence of 70%, 
80%, 95%, and 100% but is anyone using 80% or even 95% to start their 
dehydration?

We use start at 95%, but we have two Pen Fix (alcohol fixative) steps between 
our Formalin and alcohols.  10% NBF, 10% NBF, PenFix, PenFix and then the 
alcohols starting at 95%.  

Speaking of 10% NBF has anyone ever used un-buffered formalin for routine 
processing?  I heard of a place using un-buffered formalin and wondered if 1) 
would that be okay or is it harsh on tissue and 2) would it keep the salt 
deposits down?  


Helayne Parker, H.T. (ASCP)
Pathology Section Head
Cox Medical Center Branson
P.O. Box 650, Branson, MO 65615
Phone:  417-335-7254
Fax:  417-335-7127
Email:  hpar...@skaggs.net
Web:  www.coxhealth.com/branson

CoxHealth – ranked one of Missouri's Best Hospitals by U.S. News  World Report
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[Histonet] cryostat decontamination

2013-02-07 Thread Kolman, Kimberly D.
Has anyone come up with a documented and referenced procedure for
decontamination of a cryostat using 37% Formaldehyde?  

 

I pulled up old notes in the Histonet archives and saw that Tim Morken
was working on this but that was a number of years ago.

 

Thanks, Kim

 

 

Kimberly D. Kolman, HT, (ASCP)

Diagnostics 115 

VA Eastern Kansas Health Care System

4101 S. 4th St. Trfwy.

Leavenworth, KS 66048

ph: 913-682-2000 x 52537/52539

 

 

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[Histonet] Double staining with IF/IHC - chromogenic

2013-02-07 Thread Swartwood, Steven J
Hello everyone,

I have a co-worker in the research department that would like to know if anyone 
has ever combined and IF stain with chromogenic IHC staining. His theory for 
this is that IF shows better nuclear staining from an image analysis stand 
point. If you have heard of this can you send me literature on it, or if you've 
done this what is your protocol? It would seem that doing IF first than IHC 
might cause quenching of the IF, but then again doing chromogenic staining 
first might cover the IF antigen. I suspect that only an chromogenic 
cytoplasmic IHC stain can be combined with a nuclear IF marker with IHC first. 
Any ideas? Again this is specifically from an image analysis stand point.

Steven Swartwood HT(ASCP)
Cedars Sinai Medical Center
steven.swartw...@cshs.org

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[Histonet] Disposal of old blocks Slides

2013-02-07 Thread PRESZLER, JEREMIAH C MSgt USAF AETC 59 LSQ/SGVLH
Joe,

We redbag all paraffin blocks for medical waste disposal.

We use large sharps containers for disposal of glass slides.





Very Respectfully,



Jeremiah C. Preszler, MSgt, USAF HT (ASCP)

Flight Chief, Anatomic Pathology

959 CSPS/ SGVLH

WHASC

JBSA-Lackland AFB, TX 78236

(210) 292-5519

DSN: 662-5519







-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of 
jmasla...@stpetes.org
Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2013 11:29 AM
To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] Disposal of old blocks  Slides



How do you dispose of old tissue blocks after the 10 year hold period? Can

old glass tissue slides be sent for recycling?

Thanks in advance





Joe Maslanka BS, CT,HT (ASCP)

Anatomical Pathology Technical Supervisor

St Peter's Hospital,MT 59601

(P)(406) 447-2406

(F)(406)444-2126



Give thanks for ALL things.

Kindness is the language the blind can see  the deaf can hear- Mark

Twain


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[Histonet] PIN4 staining

2013-02-07 Thread jsjurczak

Anybody else having problems with PIN 4 staining (Biocare)? We are getting 
brown background staining, even on the glass itself where there is no tissue. 
After many years of fantastic results, this problem has occurred recently. Our 
AMACR is also a lot fainter than it used to be. We've switched out all lots of 
reagents involved, even bought distilled water. Still no movement towards 
solving this problem. Any ideas? 
Jeff Jurczak 
Uropartners Laboratory 
Westchester, IL 
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[Histonet] Re: Histonet Digest, Vol 111, Issæue 8

2013-02-07 Thread Becky Orr

Sent from my Verizon Wireless BlackBerry

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Sender: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Reply-To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: Histonet Digest, Vol 111, Issue 8

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than Re: Contents of Histonet digest...


Today's Topics:

   1. RE: Xylene Substitutes (Blazek, Linda)
   2. Graveyard Histotech Position in Spokane, Washington
  (Miranda Giorgi)
   3. RE: Histonet Digest, Vol 111, Issue 7 (Parker, Helayne)


--

Message: 1
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 12:13:40 -0500
From: Blazek, Linda lbla...@digestivespecialists.com
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Xylene Substitutes
To: Adrienne Anderson rennie1...@yahoo.com,
histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Message-ID:

5a2bd13465e061429d6455c8d6b40e3916490a9...@ibmb7exchange.digestivespecialists.com

Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

We have used Formula 83 from CBG for years with excellent results.  We use it 
for processing and staining.  We also recycle it making the cost very low.


-Original Message-
From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu 
[mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Dessoye, 
Michael J
Sent: Wednesday, February 06, 2013 11:47 AM
To: Adrienne Anderson; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: RE: [Histonet] Xylene Substitutes

We used SubX but have switched to Clear-Rite 3 from Thermo Fisher with 
excellent results as well as cost savings.

Michael J. Dessoye, M.S. | Histology Supervisor | Wilkes-Barre General Hospital 
| An Affiliate of Commonwealth Health | mjdess...@commonwealthhealth.net | 575 
N. River Street | Wilkes Barre, PA 18764 | Tel: 570-552-1432 | Fax: 
570-552-1526 
 

-Original Message-
From: Adrienne Anderson [mailto:rennie1...@yahoo.com]
Sent: Tuesday, February 05, 2013 4:58 PM
To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Subject: [Histonet] Xylene Substitutes

Hello all,

My lab is looking into xylene substitutes, and I'd love some feedback on what 
other labs are using. We currently use SubX, but are there other items out 
there more economical?

Thanks,
Adrienne
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--

Message: 2
Date: Wed, 6 Feb 2013 17:18:22 +
From: Miranda Giorgi mgio...@icplab.com
Subject: [Histonet] Graveyard Histotech Position in Spokane,
Washington
To: 'histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu'
histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Message-ID:
46bb82e6fc36e44fb454e00c82dbdc56cd1...@icpmail.pai.e-pathology.com
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii

Hello All,

Please see the job posting below for a Histotech position at InCyte Pathology 
in Spokane, WA.  Only interested candidates should reply.  Please do not 
respond if you are from a recruitment service.  Thank you!

Histology Analyst, Graveyard Shift (M-F)
InCyte Pathology is a full-service, pathologist-owned anatomic pathology 
laboratory.  Our one-hundred employees and twenty-one board-certified 
pathologists provide exceptional laboratory services to hospitals and physician 
offices throughout the Pacific Northwest, Montana, and Alaska from our 
state-of-the-art facility located in Spokane Valley, Washington.  We are just a 
short drive from five major ski resorts, several beautiful lakes, and a variety 
of outdoor activities.

Qualifications:  HT certified or HTL registry eligible, and two years of 
laboratory experience.  This position performs all routine procedures in 

[Histonet] best fixative for eyes

2013-02-07 Thread Robin Dean
What are people's thoughts/experience with different fixatives for eyes
(rat, mouse and rabbit mostly).

We currently use modified Davidson's solution, but the pathologist is
considering going to Davidson's.

I guess there has been some difficulty with cutting due to the lens not
getting fixed well and causing problems.

 

Thank you for sharing

 

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Re: [Histonet] best fixative for eyes

2013-02-07 Thread Jackie O'Connor

How long are you leaving the eyes in the mDavidsons?  We have found 24 hours 
works extremely well.


-Original Message-
From: Robin Dean robin_d...@compbio.com
To: histonet histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
Sent: Thu, Feb 7, 2013 6:52 pm
Subject: [Histonet] best fixative for eyes


What are people's thoughts/experience with different fixatives for eyes
(rat, mouse and rabbit mostly).

We currently use modified Davidson's solution, but the pathologist is
considering going to Davidson's.

I guess there has been some difficulty with cutting due to the lens not
getting fixed well and causing problems.

 

Thank you for sharing

 

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Re: [Histonet] Leica Bond III Opinions

2013-02-07 Thread Patsy Ruegg
Love the bond it does not break down very often for me and service is great i 
can run all the antibodies i want for me even research animal because i have a 
more open research unit cleaning the covertiles is a little tedious but we make 
it work and replace them with new ones often beats disposing of all the waste 
from liquid cs generated by ventana in my experience ___
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Re: [Histonet] P16 on Leica Bond

2013-02-07 Thread Patsy Ruegg
Really 1:4?___
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[Histonet] PFA, postfixing and GalC MBP antibodies

2013-02-07 Thread Tyrone Genade
Hello,

I have previously cut frozen sections and post-fixed in methanol for 2
minutes and got OK staining using mono- and polyclonal antibodies to
the lipid galactocerebroside (Galc). This has also been the case with
MBP (myelin basic protein). I am now using PFA fixed tissue and then
washing in acetone. This has given me much better tissue structure but
now GalC (and I suppose MBP but I haven't tested it yet)
immunoreactivity has been lost. I have used the antigen retrieval
method of Inoue  Wittbrodt
(http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21603650) but this antigen has not
been rescued. I have washed in acetone for 2 and 5 minutes.

Do you think this is an antigen retrieval/obliteration issue or the
galactocerebroside simply being washed out by the acetone? If anyone
has had any success with GalC antibodies and PFA fixation I would like
to know about it! So far my searches haven't turned up anything
useful.

Thanks
-- 
Dr Tyrone Genade
Department of Human Biology
University of Cape Town
South Africa

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Re: [Histonet] Leica Bond III Opinions

2013-02-07 Thread Kim Tournear
The bond is great. A lot less waste to deal with and the maintenance is s 
easy. Less than 10 minutes. No tubing to unclog and disinfect. And the 
operating cost is much cheaper. 

And to top it off, it won't even give you the option to start a run until 
everything is right. No going back and forth to fix this, that, and whatever. 
It's truly a walk away system once you click start. 

Sent from the iPhone of Kim Tournear  

On Feb 6, 2013, at 8:56 PM, Patsy Ruegg pru...@ihctech.net wrote:

 Love the bond it does not break down very often for me and service is great i 
 can run all the antibodies i want for me even research animal because i have 
 a more open research unit cleaning the covertiles is a little tedious but we 
 make it work and replace them with new ones often beats disposing of all the 
 waste from liquid cs generated by ventana in my experience
 ___
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 Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu
 http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet

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