Re: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world
You didn't mention what your current cutting speed is, nor what speed they want you to be at. Ask your supervisor to set up goals for you to meet, with time frames. Each week, work on getting faster, not fast today, just faster each week. At the School where I taught, we had goals set up during the time the students were learning, and also time when they were doing their histology lab rotation. When they were learning in the School, they would microtome 1-3 times a week for the first 2 months, and nearly daily the last 2 months, about 2 hours a day (for total of 120+ hours microtoming before their histology rotation). The first couple of months, emphasis was on quality, and then it shifted to quantity (speed) and quality. Every 4-6 weeks, they were reassessed as to whether they were meeting quality and quantity (speed) goals. When they did their 1 month rotation through histology lab, they were full time in the lab, and microtomed about 2-3 hours a day (total about an additional 100 hours microtoming). They were expected to keep the quality up, and still improve their quantity (speed). When they graduated, no, they were not as fast as experienced techs, but they were close. At any time (school or rotations), if they didn't measure up to the goals, they knew they had to repeat the evaluation and/or rotation. If they still could not meet the goals, they would be let go from the program. So they had to pass the academic part (tests for what they know) as well as psychomotor (DOING the sectioning, staining, embedding, etc.), and the affective (showing up on time, getting along with people, willing to volunteer, etc.). This is the same as any histotech job. There are goals (quality and quantity (speed)) that everyone must be able to meet. You have been microtoming at your second job for 2 months, 8 hours a day, and 2-3 hours a day since April (up to 2 months) at your current job. That's about 400 hours of microtoming while at jobs. At this point, you should have quality down pat, and should be able to concentrate on speed. So have your supervisor set specific speed goals and dates, and then you use those time intervals to keep improving your speed. Have your supervisor watch you, and see where you are being slowed down by unnecessary movements. And if you are the only histotech responding to the data entry person, then explain it to your supervisor, and get that responsibility on a rotating basis amongst all of you. Peggy Wenk HTL (ASCP) SLS -Original Message- From: Alpha Histotech Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 4:34 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world Hi everyone, I wouldn't give too much detail information as the histology world is very small and everyone knows everyone. I am in a dilemma. I have been a histotech (ASCP HT) for almost 6-7 yrs. I went to a NAACLS school and have a Associate in Science in Histology. In the 6-7 yrs I have changed jobs 3 times. All the jobs were graveyard shifts. The first place I worked for was Quest Diagnostics and I did a good 3 yrs. The other 2 places I won't mention and I currently still have a histology job. My problem is all the places I worked were factory style lab work and they all did derm work. In my career I really only embedded most of the time. I did occasional other stuff like special stains both by hand and using Dako Artisan and other things like cytology cytospin. But I never got to develop in cutting. My first job in quest..I maybe cutted one time for 2 or 3 weeks before they yanked me and put me back to embed. My 2nd job put me to cut the last 2 months (full 8hrs) I was working there. My current job I have been cutting since April 2014 ( but only 2-3hrs in the day and then I embed, I have been here now 1 yr, I was embedding most of the time before th cutting started). I was told by my director I need to speed up in cutting because corporate is asking why I am not increasing in speed. And if I don't speed up eventually then they will have to demote me to a lab aid and give me a pay cut. (where I work and the state I work in they have lab aids doing alot of stuff without being certified, it wasn't like that in the other state I am original from as you have to be state licensed and ascp) I sometimes laugh inside my head because before my director hired me I told him I don't have alot experience in cutting. Now everywhere I have gone...speed is the name of the game. They say they care about quality but in the end if you can't put up then you will be put out! So I am just thinking I should just get out of histology world all together. Every where I have worked unfortunately have management who believe quantity over quality. OR Do you guys think I need more time cutting to develop speed? Beforehand I did need a little learning curve to cut and I have gotten through that now. It's just the speed that is killing me. And I als
Re: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world
As someone who has been in research (basically being a histologist), I can say that there are NO jobs out there for you. The market is saturated with PhDs. Do not leave your job for a research position unless they can guarantee your salary for years. This will be very unlikely, as getting a grant is super hard nowadays. I actually have to be ceritifed to work in a clinical lab, but I know that after 15 years in a lab, I definitely have the skills, just not the certification to be in a clinical lab. I am working in the office now, and in the lab one day a week after having an R01 for ten years and being the lab manager in a research lab. I'm going to get certification in case this office/lab thing doesn't work out in a few years. I wish there was more money in science but there isn't. So the main point is, either get some skills, or go a different path. Research is not where it's at right now. Although, I am assuming you're in the US, this might not be the case in other countries. Emily "By bitching and bitching and bitching, they could exhaust the drama of their own horror stories. Grow bored. Only then could they accept a new story for their lives. Move forward." -Chuck Palahniuk, "Haunted" On Wed, Jun 4, 2014 at 7:45 AM, joelle weaver wrote: > Yes thanks for the perspective. I have a bias towards my own experience, > and this seems to be good advice. I work in a molecular based lab now and > they are very unaware of what it typically is like in a clinical > histopathology lab. Good to point other environments are out there that are > clinical, and also that research in general can be very different than > clinical settings. Some people are just more suited to certain environments > over the other. > > > > > Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > > Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 01:32:11 + > From: koelli...@comcast.net > To: joellewea...@hotmail.com > CC: timothy.mor...@ucsfmedctr.org; optimusprimehistot...@hotmail.com; > histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: Re: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world > > Alpha Histotech- > > I'll put in my few words even though I'm not active anymore and possibly > from different perspective. But also using a few assumptions and if my > assumptions are wrong then the rest of what I say is probably meaningless. > Not IDíng your e-mail address but if you've worked 3 jobs nightshift > including a large reference lab, do you live near a big city? And if so is > it a city close to a college or university. > > Research histology should not be overlooked. You will find many molecular > or other such non-histo labs that actually do some or even a lot of > histology by non-histology personnel or lab workers. Sometimes it is OK, > sometimes even great. Sometimes, and I witnessed it, it is at an > embarrassing histo level. I can walk up or down university hallways and > see a "genetics lab" or some other "molecular lab" and see a microtome or > cryostat in there. Sometimes those PI's will send histo work to a core > lab. Sometimes they don't want to pay per block so do it (and staining and > IHC and FISH) themselves. Someone with even minimal wide-ranging histo > experience might be welcomed. > > No timed block cutting counts. Learn some immunology, genetics, molecular > techniques, comparative medicine, physiology, etc, etc along the way. Many > places even pay for college level courses while employed there. > > Just a thought if you are near that kind of area. > > Ray in Seattle > > > > > > From: "joelle weaver" > To: "Timothy Morken" , "Alpha Histotech" < > optimusprimehistot...@hotmail.com>, histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 5:55:09 PM > Subject: RE: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world > > > It would be a shame to get discouraged now after all the time you have > already put into histology. If you still want to work in histology, I might > suggest you try to have a conversation with a manager, supervisor or lead > tech and see if they are willing to support you. Tell them you want to > spend more time cuting to be able to section with high quality at the rate > that works for their productivity standards. If you present it as a > win-win proposition, see what resources, people and time they are willing > to "chip in" to help get where they would like you to be. Make some metric > or rate to achieve in microtomy your goal for the year, and put it into > writing ( good for all goals:). > Or if that is too uncomfortable , approach someone individually whose > microtomy skills you admire , and see if they are willing to provide some > tips and guidance off wo
RE: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world
Rene is right that everyone needs to find what they are good at. We had a guy who was so-so in cutting speed and always getting flack for not doing enough. And had such a hard time coordinating specials and immunos that he just slowed things down. Then we started doing Mega blocks of whole mount eyes and prostate and it turns out this guy is a savant at cutting large blocks. The pathologists were raving about how good the sections were. He had a job as long as he wanted in that lab just for that! Tim Morken -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Rene J Buesa Sent: Wednesday, June 04, 2014 7:41 AM To: Alpha Histotech; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world You describe a common situation in histology where the pressure to finish the work on time (the TAT) reigns but that does not necessarily mean that quality has to be sacrificed, although sometimes it does. On the other hand, not all histotechs are "created equal" and some have abilities others don't. Manual dexterity is a most and while some can section at the "normal" rate of 24 blocks/hour, other take twice the time, and it seems that you belong to the later group. For what you wrote it seems that your embedding productivity (about 60 blocks/hour) is the "norm" and, again, others are less or more productive. You also point out that you have worked in 3 places in 6-7 years and that is a quite high turnover never conducent to improve your work and that can be hold "against you" in your Resumé when looking for another position. A histology supervisor has to assure the slides are ready for the pathologists on a timely basis so one of the things that have to be done is to identify amongst the staff "who does what best" meaning who can deliver quality in a timely basis. I think that you, already in your late 20's, should start trying to answer several questions: 1- why did you in the first place decided to become a histotech and if that was a "wise" selection? 2- if you are experiencing the same problems in the 3 places where you worked, it seems clear to me that the issue is with you and not with the trade. It will be the same at least in these types of high volume labs where higher productivity are required. If you really like histology and think that you need more training to achieve sectioning speed, you have to switch to another type of lab. Try to solicit work in a research or university lab where you will have enough time to train properly and where finishing the work "yesterday" is no usually a concern. Also think that not all histotechs have the same ability or speed. I had supervised along my career as supervisor scores of histotechs and some just cannot section fast, it is not within their abilities but can excel in some other tasks. My duty was to detect the task that they could complete best and, without totally frustrating their lives, assign them to those tasks. Also you could try to improve your speed on your own time, and demonstrate that you are also willing to try to improve. So I think that it is time for you to do one of the following: 1- change career 2- change type of lab 3- adapt and adquire sectioning speed or 4- find amongst the many tasks that histology provide, the one where you can excel and at the same find satisfaction. What you cannot do is to keep doing the same and expect to find satisfaction or obtain a different result given your ability. Think hard and honestly what you want to do for the rest of your life that most likely will be long. René J. On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 4:35 PM, Alpha Histotech wrote: Hi everyone, I wouldn't give too much detail information as the histology world is very small and everyone knows everyone. I am in a dilemma. I have been a histotech (ASCP HT) for almost 6-7 yrs. I went to a NAACLS school and have a Associate in Science in Histology. In the 6-7 yrs I have changed jobs 3 times. All the jobs were graveyard shifts. The first place I worked for was Quest Diagnostics and I did a good 3 yrs. The other 2 places I won't mention and I currently still have a histology job. My problem is all the places I worked were factory style lab work and they all did derm work. In my career I really only embedded most of the time. I did occasional other stuff like special stains both by hand and using Dako Artisan and other things like cytology cytospin. But I never got to develop in cutting. My first job in quest..I maybe cutted one time for 2 or 3 weeks before they yanked me and put me back to embed. My 2nd job put me to cut the last 2 months (full 8hrs) I was working there. My current job I have been cutting since April 2014 ( but only 2-3hrs in the day and then I embed, I have been here now 1 yr, I was e
Re: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world
You describe a common situation in histology where the pressure to finish the work on time (the TAT) reigns but that does not necessarily mean that quality has to be sacrificed, although sometimes it does. On the other hand, not all histotechs are "created equal" and some have abilities others don't. Manual dexterity is a most and while some can section at the "normal" rate of 24 blocks/hour, other take twice the time, and it seems that you belong to the later group. For what you wrote it seems that your embedding productivity (about 60 blocks/hour) is the "norm" and, again, others are less or more productive. You also point out that you have worked in 3 places in 6-7 years and that is a quite high turnover never conducent to improve your work and that can be hold "against you" in your Resumé when looking for another position. A histology supervisor has to assure the slides are ready for the pathologists on a timely basis so one of the things that have to be done is to identify amongst the staff "who does what best" meaning who can deliver quality in a timely basis. I think that you, already in your late 20's, should start trying to answer several questions: 1- why did you in the first place decided to become a histotech and if that was a "wise" selection? 2- if you are experiencing the same problems in the 3 places where you worked, it seems clear to me that the issue is with you and not with the trade. It will be the same at least in these types of high volume labs where higher productivity are required. If you really like histology and think that you need more training to achieve sectioning speed, you have to switch to another type of lab. Try to solicit work in a research or university lab where you will have enough time to train properly and where finishing the work "yesterday" is no usually a concern. Also think that not all histotechs have the same ability or speed. I had supervised along my career as supervisor scores of histotechs and some just cannot section fast, it is not within their abilities but can excel in some other tasks. My duty was to detect the task that they could complete best and, without totally frustrating their lives, assign them to those tasks. Also you could try to improve your speed on your own time, and demonstrate that you are also willing to try to improve. So I think that it is time for you to do one of the following: 1- change career 2- change type of lab 3- adapt and adquire sectioning speed or 4- find amongst the many tasks that histology provide, the one where you can excel and at the same find satisfaction. What you cannot do is to keep doing the same and expect to find satisfaction or obtain a different result given your ability. Think hard and honestly what you want to do for the rest of your life that most likely will be long. René J. On Tuesday, June 3, 2014 4:35 PM, Alpha Histotech wrote: Hi everyone, I wouldn't give too much detail information as the histology world is very small and everyone knows everyone. I am in a dilemma. I have been a histotech (ASCP HT) for almost 6-7 yrs. I went to a NAACLS school and have a Associate in Science in Histology. In the 6-7 yrs I have changed jobs 3 times. All the jobs were graveyard shifts. The first place I worked for was Quest Diagnostics and I did a good 3 yrs. The other 2 places I won't mention and I currently still have a histology job. My problem is all the places I worked were factory style lab work and they all did derm work. In my career I really only embedded most of the time. I did occasional other stuff like special stains both by hand and using Dako Artisan and other things like cytology cytospin. But I never got to develop in cutting. My first job in quest..I maybe cutted one time for 2 or 3 weeks before they yanked me and put me back to embed. My 2nd job put me to cut the last 2 months (full 8hrs) I was working there. My current job I have been cutting since April 2014 ( but only 2-3hrs in the day and then I embed, I have been here now 1 yr, I was embedding most of the time before th cutting started). I was told by my director I need to speed up in cutting because corporate is asking why I am not increasing in speed. And if I don't speed up eventually then they will have to demote me to a lab aid and give me a pay cut. (where I work and the state I work in they have lab aids doing alot of stuff without being certified, it wasn't like that in the other state I am original from as you have to be state licensed and ascp) I sometimes laugh inside my head because before my director hired me I told him I don't have alot experience in cutting. Now everywhere I have gone...speed is the name of the game. They say they care about quality but in the end if you can't put up then you will be put out! So I am just thinking I should just get out of histology world all together. Every where I have worked unfortunately have management who believe quantity
RE: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world
Yes thanks for the perspective. I have a bias towards my own experience, and this seems to be good advice. I work in a molecular based lab now and they are very unaware of what it typically is like in a clinical histopathology lab. Good to point other environments are out there that are clinical, and also that research in general can be very different than clinical settings. Some people are just more suited to certain environments over the other. Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC Date: Wed, 4 Jun 2014 01:32:11 + From: koelli...@comcast.net To: joellewea...@hotmail.com CC: timothy.mor...@ucsfmedctr.org; optimusprimehistot...@hotmail.com; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: Re: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world Alpha Histotech- I'll put in my few words even though I'm not active anymore and possibly from different perspective. But also using a few assumptions and if my assumptions are wrong then the rest of what I say is probably meaningless. Not IDíng your e-mail address but if you've worked 3 jobs nightshift including a large reference lab, do you live near a big city? And if so is it a city close to a college or university. Research histology should not be overlooked. You will find many molecular or other such non-histo labs that actually do some or even a lot of histology by non-histology personnel or lab workers. Sometimes it is OK, sometimes even great. Sometimes, and I witnessed it, it is at an embarrassing histo level. I can walk up or down university hallways and see a "genetics lab" or some other "molecular lab" and see a microtome or cryostat in there. Sometimes those PI's will send histo work to a core lab. Sometimes they don't want to pay per block so do it (and staining and IHC and FISH) themselves. Someone with even minimal wide-ranging histo experience might be welcomed. No timed block cutting counts. Learn some immunology, genetics, molecular techniques, comparative medicine, physiology, etc, etc along the way. Many places even pay for college level courses while employed there. Just a thought if you are near that kind of area. Ray in Seattle From: "joelle weaver" To: "Timothy Morken" , "Alpha Histotech" , histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 5:55:09 PM Subject: RE: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world It would be a shame to get discouraged now after all the time you have already put into histology. If you still want to work in histology, I might suggest you try to have a conversation with a manager, supervisor or lead tech and see if they are willing to support you. Tell them you want to spend more time cuting to be able to section with high quality at the rate that works for their productivity standards. If you present it as a win-win proposition, see what resources, people and time they are willing to "chip in" to help get where they would like you to be. Make some metric or rate to achieve in microtomy your goal for the year, and put it into writing ( good for all goals:). Or if that is too uncomfortable , approach someone individually whose microtomy skills you admire , and see if they are willing to provide some tips and guidance off work time. I also went through a NAACLS program. Still at my first "real" histology job , the realization that this was the actual training became apparent very quickly. I had moments of exhaustion and feeling overwhelmed, but I now feel I was also fortunate to work initially at a pretty high volume place. It was a great "breaking in" for embedding and microtomy. Luckily there were also some experienced techs there who saw how much I wanted to learn, and were willing to help me get better. The "constructive" criticism stung sometimes, but they did me a huge service. But believe me, not everyone was helpful or supportive along the way. Try to ignore those kind of people as much as possible. And I still get criticized sometimes, make mistakes, and I still have more to learn. But here are a couple of other options for you to consider before you decide to leave, and what I did to get more experience when in your situation more quickly; Take on a second histology job that targets specific skills, tissue, or techniques you want more experience in. Believe me I have been criticized and misunderstood for this choice s well many times, but personally I do not regret any of those experiences now. I also feel that small labs are nice to build well rounded skills since you are usually more of a "jack of all trades" and have less tendency to do one task over your whole shift from day to day. Sometimes you just have to identify the environment that is the right fit for you. Best of luck to you- and let us know how things turn out! Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > From: tim
Re: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world
Alpha Histotech- I'll put in my few words even though I'm not active anymore and possibly from different perspective. But also using a few assumptions and if my assumptions are wrong then the rest of what I say is probably meaningless. Not IDíng your e-mail address but if you've worked 3 jobs nightshift including a large reference lab, do you live near a big city? And if so is it a city close to a college or university. Research histology should not be overlooked. You will find many molecular or other such non-histo labs that actually do some or even a lot of histology by non-histology personnel or lab workers. Sometimes it is OK, sometimes even great. Sometimes, and I witnessed it, it is at an embarrassing histo level. I can walk up or down university hallways and see a "genetics lab" or some other "molecular lab" and see a microtome or cryostat in there. Sometimes those PI's will send histo work to a core lab. Sometimes they don't want to pay per block so do it (and staining and IHC and FISH) themselves. Someone with even minimal wide-ranging histo experience might be welcomed. No timed block cutting counts. Learn some immunology, genetics, molecular techniques, comparative medicine, physiology, etc, etc along the way. Many places even pay for college level courses while employed there. Just a thought if you are near that kind of area. Ray in Seattle - Original Message - From: "joelle weaver" To: "Timothy Morken" , "Alpha Histotech" , histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 5:55:09 PM Subject: RE: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world It would be a shame to get discouraged now after all the time you have already put into histology. If you still want to work in histology, I might suggest you try to have a conversation with a manager, supervisor or lead tech and see if they are willing to support you. Tell them you want to spend more time cuting to be able to section with high quality at the rate that works for their productivity standards. If you present it as a win-win proposition, see what resources, people and time they are willing to "chip in" to help get where they would like you to be. Make some metric or rate to achieve in microtomy your goal for the year, and put it into writing ( good for all goals:). Or if that is too uncomfortable , approach someone individually whose microtomy skills you admire , and see if they are willing to provide some tips and guidance off work time. I also went through a NAACLS program. Still at my first "real" histology job , the realization that this was the actual training became apparent very quickly. I had moments of exhaustion and feeling overwhelmed, but I now feel I was also fortunate to work initially at a pretty high volume place. It was a great "breaking in" for embedding and microtomy. Luckily there were also some experienced techs there who saw how much I wanted to learn, and were willing to help me get better. The "constructive" criticism stung sometimes, but they did me a huge service. But believe me, not everyone was helpful or supportive along the way. Try to ignore those kind of people as much as possible. And I still get criticized sometimes, make mistakes, and I still have more to learn. But here are a couple of other options for you to consider before you decide to leave, and what I did to get more experience when in your situation more quickly; Take on a second histology job that targets specific skills, tissue, or techniques you want more experience in. Believe me I have been criticized and misunderstood for this choice s well many times, but personally I do not regret any of those experiences now. I also feel that small labs are nice to build well rounded skills since you are usually more of a "jack of all trades" and have less tendency to do one task over your whole shift from day to day. Sometimes you just have to identify the environment that is the right fit for you. Best of luck to you- and let us know how things turn out! Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > From: timothy.mor...@ucsfmedctr.org > To: optimusprimehistot...@hotmail.com; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 22:51:31 + > Subject: RE: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world > CC: > > Alpha, it is clear to me, after 30+ years in the field, that some are born > with the ability to cut fast AND do well at it. The rest of us just have to > work harder at developing that skill. But it does take bench time to do it. A > recent cache is that it takes 10,000 hours to become an absolute expert at > something - that's about 5 years full time work. And that's just one skill. > > It sounds like you need some good teachers (ie, those
RE: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world
It would be a shame to get discouraged now after all the time you have already put into histology. If you still want to work in histology, I might suggest you try to have a conversation with a manager, supervisor or lead tech and see if they are willing to support you. Tell them you want to spend more time cuting to be able to section with high quality at the rate that works for their productivity standards. If you present it as a win-win proposition, see what resources, people and time they are willing to "chip in" to help get where they would like you to be. Make some metric or rate to achieve in microtomy your goal for the year, and put it into writing ( good for all goals:). Or if that is too uncomfortable , approach someone individually whose microtomy skills you admire , and see if they are willing to provide some tips and guidance off work time. I also went through a NAACLS program. Still at my first "real" histology job , the realization that this was the actual training became apparent very quickly. I had moments of exhaustion and feeling overwhelmed, but I now feel I was also fortunate to work initially at a pretty high volume place. It was a great "breaking in" for embedding and microtomy. Luckily there were also some experienced techs there who saw how much I wanted to learn, and were willing to help me get better. The "constructive" criticism stung sometimes, but they did me a huge service. But believe me, not everyone was helpful or supportive along the way. Try to ignore those kind of people as much as possible. And I still get criticized sometimes, make mistakes, and I still have more to learn. But here are a couple of other options for you to consider before you decide to leave, and what I did to get more experience when in your situation more quickly; Take on a second histology job that targets specific skills, tissue, or techniques you want more experience in. Believe me I have been criticized and misunderstood for this choice s well many times, but personally I do not regret any of those experiences now. I also feel that small labs are nice to build well rounded skills since you are usually more of a "jack of all trades" and have less tendency to do one task over your whole shift from day to day. Sometimes you just have to identify the environment that is the right fit for you. Best of luck to you- and let us know how things turn out! Joelle Weaver MAOM, HTL (ASCP) QIHC > From: timothy.mor...@ucsfmedctr.org > To: optimusprimehistot...@hotmail.com; histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Date: Tue, 3 Jun 2014 22:51:31 +0000 > Subject: RE: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world > CC: > > Alpha, it is clear to me, after 30+ years in the field, that some are born > with the ability to cut fast AND do well at it. The rest of us just have to > work harder at developing that skill. But it does take bench time to do it. A > recent cache is that it takes 10,000 hours to become an absolute expert at > something - that's about 5 years full time work. And that's just one skill. > > It sounds like you need some good teachers (ie, those who like to teach and > like having their students do well). That would be the highest priority if > you want to stay in the field as a bench tech. > > If the factory job isn't working out why not look for a smaller lab in which > you can get more extensive experience? I really value the fact that spent my > first 11 years in a 4- person lab in which we did everything from grossing to > histo to immunos to EM. It may pay less initially but may add more value to > your lifetime career. > > > Tim Morken > Supervisor, Histology, Electron Microscopy and Neuromuscular Special Studies > UC San Francisco Medical Center > San Francisco, CA > > -Original Message- > From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Alpha > Histotech > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 1:35 PM > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world > > Hi everyone, > > I wouldn't give too much detail information as the histology world is very > small and everyone knows everyone. > > I am in a dilemma. I have been a histotech (ASCP HT) for almost 6-7 yrs. I > went to a NAACLS school and have a Associate in Science in Histology. In the > 6-7 yrs I have changed jobs 3 times. All the jobs were graveyard shifts. The > first place I worked for was Quest Diagnostics and I did a good 3 yrs. The > other 2 places I won't mention and I currently still have a histology job. My > problem is all the places I worked were factory style lab work and they all > did derm work. In my career I really only embedd
RE: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world
Alpha, it is clear to me, after 30+ years in the field, that some are born with the ability to cut fast AND do well at it. The rest of us just have to work harder at developing that skill. But it does take bench time to do it. A recent cache is that it takes 10,000 hours to become an absolute expert at something - that's about 5 years full time work. And that's just one skill. It sounds like you need some good teachers (ie, those who like to teach and like having their students do well). That would be the highest priority if you want to stay in the field as a bench tech. If the factory job isn't working out why not look for a smaller lab in which you can get more extensive experience? I really value the fact that spent my first 11 years in a 4- person lab in which we did everything from grossing to histo to immunos to EM. It may pay less initially but may add more value to your lifetime career. Tim Morken Supervisor, Histology, Electron Microscopy and Neuromuscular Special Studies UC San Francisco Medical Center San Francisco, CA -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Alpha Histotech Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 1:35 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world Hi everyone, I wouldn't give too much detail information as the histology world is very small and everyone knows everyone. I am in a dilemma. I have been a histotech (ASCP HT) for almost 6-7 yrs. I went to a NAACLS school and have a Associate in Science in Histology. In the 6-7 yrs I have changed jobs 3 times. All the jobs were graveyard shifts. The first place I worked for was Quest Diagnostics and I did a good 3 yrs. The other 2 places I won't mention and I currently still have a histology job. My problem is all the places I worked were factory style lab work and they all did derm work. In my career I really only embedded most of the time. I did occasional other stuff like special stains both by hand and using Dako Artisan and other things like cytology cytospin. But I never got to develop in cutting. My first job in quest..I maybe cutted one time for 2 or 3 weeks before they yanked me and put me back to embed. My 2nd job put me to cut the last 2 months (full 8hrs) I was working there. My current job I have been cutting since April 2014 ( but only 2-3hrs in the day and then I embed, I have been here now 1 yr, I was embedding most of the time before th cutting started). I was told by my director I need to speed up in cutting because corporate is asking why I am not increasing in speed. And if I don't speed up eventually then they will have to demote me to a lab aid and give me a pay cut. (where I work and the state I work in they have lab aids doing alot of stuff without being certified, it wasn't like that in the other state I am original from as you have to be state licensed and ascp) I sometimes laugh inside my head because before my director hired me I told him I don't have alot experience in cutting. Now everywhere I have gone...speed is the name of the game. They say they care about quality but in the end if you can't put up then you will be put out! So I am just thinking I should just get out of histology world all together. Every where I have worked unfortunately have management who believe quantity over quality. OR Do you guys think I need more time cutting to develop speed? Beforehand I did need a little learning curve to cut and I have gotten through that now. It's just the speed that is killing me. And I also see if anyone at my work detours me for any reason like for example data entry person from front desk ask for missing gross dictation, then that lost time is very hard to recover as I am not s fast to recover. I feel I may have to become very rude(not help) with everyone I work around in order to stay glued to my seat when I am cutting my blocks. One thing I want to say also...until this day I never been written up for quality issues and I never lost any tissue while embedding. Embedding I am fast as most histotech (1 block a min or most times 30-45 secs 1 block) with proper embedding techniques demonstrated (tissue on same plane, tissue embedded with proper orientation and follow any other necessary embedding instructions. ) I just feel I haven't done my time in cutting as I did in embedding to become a fast cutter. I don't know if its because of working in a derm lab that management won't wait too long for you to develop like maybe a hospital lab may do. I was also thinking to find another histo job but not mention any of my experience so expectation won't be so high and I can get more time to develop. All of this also causes alot of stress and anxiety as it gets hard to coop with. What do you guys think and how I should go about with this. I am also not limited to histology. I have expertise in 2 other major fie
Re: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world
Bill very well put and I agree with you. Sent from my iPhone > On Jun 3, 2014, at 4:07 PM, WILLIAM DESALVO wrote: > > Do not give up and try not to blame a process or someone else for your lack > of developed skill at microtomy, but dedicate yourself to personal > improvement. You have 6+ years invested in a career, and if your reasons for > embarking on that career remain, then bear down and find a way to improve > your microtomy technique. Work w/ a mentor, ask for help, demand helpful > criticism, cut extra blocks after your scheduled work period and find a way > to improve. If consistent and quality microtomy was as easy as it sounds, we > would not have the shortage of technicians that exist. > > > I look at your problem from another perspective, lack of training and > competency standards. From your description, I do not think this is about > quantity over quality, but one of functionality and commitment to excellence. > I often hear from newly graduated students, I teach in a Histotechnology > program, that they consider themselves trained and ready Histotechnologists > and often expect to be highly paid without always being highly skilled. > Unfortunately, new graduates are only beginners, or apprentices if you will, > and must, as Felton states, work on their craftsmanship. Histotechnology has > two sides, educational and functional, and the individual technicians must > take responsibility for the functional side. The lab/company your work at to > develop your skill is responsible for training and support. > > > It is counter productive to resist metrics, they are hear to stay and they > can be very useful. When metrics are properly used, quality and quantity are > married together to develop the acceptable productivity level. Always > remember that the ultimate judge of the slide quality is the person creating > the slide. A pathologist may have a wide scale of acceptance, but only > through a skilled technician can patient care be directly affected and the > quality improved. The best path to process improvement in the Histology lab > is through a trained, competent and skilled technologist/technician. > Graduating from a NAACLS program is a start not the finish. > > > > > > > Sent from Windows Mail > > > > > > From: Nails, Felton > Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:00 PM > To: Alpha Histotech, histonet > > > > > > I always tell my students if you can cut, you can get a job. It appears that > you school did not properly prepare you for the demands of an average > histology job. > You need to take every opportunity to work on your craft and the major focus > of histology is cutting. With 6 to 7 years of experience you are expected to > know the basics and cutting is basic. > > -Original Message- > From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Alpha > Histotech > Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 3:35 PM > To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu > Subject: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world > > Hi everyone, > > I wouldn't give too much detail information as the histology world is very > small and everyone knows everyone. > > I am in a dilemma. I have been a histotech (ASCP HT) for almost 6-7 yrs. I > went to a NAACLS school and have a Associate in Science in Histology. In the > 6-7 yrs I have changed jobs 3 times. All the jobs were graveyard shifts. The > first place I worked for was Quest Diagnostics and I did a good 3 yrs. The > other 2 places I won't mention and I currently still have a histology job. My > problem is all the places I worked were factory style lab work and they all > did derm work. In my career I really only embedded most of the time. I did > occasional other stuff like special stains both by hand and using Dako > Artisan and other things like cytology cytospin. But I never got to develop > in cutting. My first job in quest..I maybe cutted one time for 2 or 3 weeks > before they yanked me and put me back to embed. My 2nd job put me to cut the > last 2 months (full 8hrs) I was working there. My current job I have been > cutting since April 2014 ( but only 2-3hrs in the day and then I embed, I > have been here now 1 yr, I was embedding most of the time before th cutting > started). I was told by my director I need to speed up in cutting because > corporate is asking why I am not increasing in speed. And if I don't speed up > eventually then they will have to demote me to a lab aid and give me a pay > cut. (where I work and the state I work in they have lab aids doing alot of > stuff without being certified, it wasn't like that in the other state I am > original from as you have to be state licensed and ascp) I sometimes laugh > inside my head because before my director hired me I told him I don't have > alot experience in cutting. > > Now everywhere I have gone...speed is the name of the game. They say they
Re: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world
Do not give up and try not to blame a process or someone else for your lack of developed skill at microtomy, but dedicate yourself to personal improvement. You have 6+ years invested in a career, and if your reasons for embarking on that career remain, then bear down and find a way to improve your microtomy technique. Work w/ a mentor, ask for help, demand helpful criticism, cut extra blocks after your scheduled work period and find a way to improve. If consistent and quality microtomy was as easy as it sounds, we would not have the shortage of technicians that exist. I look at your problem from another perspective, lack of training and competency standards. From your description, I do not think this is about quantity over quality, but one of functionality and commitment to excellence. I often hear from newly graduated students, I teach in a Histotechnology program, that they consider themselves trained and ready Histotechnologists and often expect to be highly paid without always being highly skilled. Unfortunately, new graduates are only beginners, or apprentices if you will, and must, as Felton states, work on their craftsmanship. Histotechnology has two sides, educational and functional, and the individual technicians must take responsibility for the functional side. The lab/company your work at to develop your skill is responsible for training and support. It is counter productive to resist metrics, they are hear to stay and they can be very useful. When metrics are properly used, quality and quantity are married together to develop the acceptable productivity level. Always remember that the ultimate judge of the slide quality is the person creating the slide. A pathologist may have a wide scale of acceptance, but only through a skilled technician can patient care be directly affected and the quality improved. The best path to process improvement in the Histology lab is through a trained, competent and skilled technologist/technician. Graduating from a NAACLS program is a start not the finish. Sent from Windows Mail From: Nails, Felton Sent: Tuesday, June 3, 2014 2:00 PM To: Alpha Histotech, histonet I always tell my students if you can cut, you can get a job. It appears that you school did not properly prepare you for the demands of an average histology job. You need to take every opportunity to work on your craft and the major focus of histology is cutting. With 6 to 7 years of experience you are expected to know the basics and cutting is basic. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Alpha Histotech Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 3:35 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world Hi everyone, I wouldn't give too much detail information as the histology world is very small and everyone knows everyone. I am in a dilemma. I have been a histotech (ASCP HT) for almost 6-7 yrs. I went to a NAACLS school and have a Associate in Science in Histology. In the 6-7 yrs I have changed jobs 3 times. All the jobs were graveyard shifts. The first place I worked for was Quest Diagnostics and I did a good 3 yrs. The other 2 places I won't mention and I currently still have a histology job. My problem is all the places I worked were factory style lab work and they all did derm work. In my career I really only embedded most of the time. I did occasional other stuff like special stains both by hand and using Dako Artisan and other things like cytology cytospin. But I never got to develop in cutting. My first job in quest..I maybe cutted one time for 2 or 3 weeks before they yanked me and put me back to embed. My 2nd job put me to cut the last 2 months (full 8hrs) I was working there. My current job I have been cutting since April 2014 ( but only 2-3hrs in the day and then I embed, I have been here now 1 yr, I was embedding most of the time before th cutting started). I was told by my director I need to speed up in cutting because corporate is asking why I am not increasing in speed. And if I don't speed up eventually then they will have to demote me to a lab aid and give me a pay cut. (where I work and the state I work in they have lab aids doing alot of stuff without being certified, it wasn't like that in the other state I am original from as you have to be state licensed and ascp) I sometimes laugh inside my head because before my director hired me I told him I don't have alot experience in cutting. Now everywhere I have gone...speed is the name of the game. They say they care about quality but in the end if you can't put up then you will be put out! So I am just thinking I should just get out of histology world all together. Every where I have worked unfortunately have management who believe quantity over quality. OR Do you guys think I need more time cutting to develop speed
Re: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world
Felton, I disagree! The training this tech underwent must obviously have covered basic histology but you cannot guarantee that a trained student will find a laboratory that will give him/her the opportunity to develop speed while not sacrificing quality. Having the training does not warrant that the new tech will be able to cut a certain number of blocks per hour to satisfy the demands of an employer's spreadsheet mentality. A good laboratory manager will make it possible for that "newbie" to have the time at the microtome (or the embedding station, etc.) to develop the speed that comes with an experienced eye. Providing that newly-minted tech the time necessary just makes sense to the employer and the tech. Realizing full well (after 40+ years as an HT) that this is not a perfect world and that other factors weigh heavily, encouragement pays off in quality, quantity and loyalty. Perhaps what Alpha Histotech needs to do (if the lab manager is an open-minded, logical individual) is to discuss this issue with that manager and allow the manager to understand that this new tech has the enthusiasm but needs "time in grade". This is too critical an issue to begin to lose techs (as few as there are coming into the field) by an employer's requirement to produce quantity without the absolute necessity of quality. Regards to all! ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet
RE: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world
I always tell my students if you can cut, you can get a job. It appears that you school did not properly prepare you for the demands of an average histology job. You need to take every opportunity to work on your craft and the major focus of histology is cutting. With 6 to 7 years of experience you are expected to know the basics and cutting is basic. -Original Message- From: histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu [mailto:histonet-boun...@lists.utsouthwestern.edu] On Behalf Of Alpha Histotech Sent: Tuesday, June 03, 2014 3:35 PM To: histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu Subject: [Histonet] Should I leave histology world Hi everyone, I wouldn't give too much detail information as the histology world is very small and everyone knows everyone. I am in a dilemma. I have been a histotech (ASCP HT) for almost 6-7 yrs. I went to a NAACLS school and have a Associate in Science in Histology. In the 6-7 yrs I have changed jobs 3 times. All the jobs were graveyard shifts. The first place I worked for was Quest Diagnostics and I did a good 3 yrs. The other 2 places I won't mention and I currently still have a histology job. My problem is all the places I worked were factory style lab work and they all did derm work. In my career I really only embedded most of the time. I did occasional other stuff like special stains both by hand and using Dako Artisan and other things like cytology cytospin. But I never got to develop in cutting. My first job in quest..I maybe cutted one time for 2 or 3 weeks before they yanked me and put me back to embed. My 2nd job put me to cut the last 2 months (full 8hrs) I was working there. My current job I have been cutting since April 2014 ( but only 2-3hrs in the day and then I embed, I have been here now 1 yr, I was embedding most of the time before th cutting started). I was told by my director I need to speed up in cutting because corporate is asking why I am not increasing in speed. And if I don't speed up eventually then they will have to demote me to a lab aid and give me a pay cut. (where I work and the state I work in they have lab aids doing alot of stuff without being certified, it wasn't like that in the other state I am original from as you have to be state licensed and ascp) I sometimes laugh inside my head because before my director hired me I told him I don't have alot experience in cutting. Now everywhere I have gone...speed is the name of the game. They say they care about quality but in the end if you can't put up then you will be put out! So I am just thinking I should just get out of histology world all together. Every where I have worked unfortunately have management who believe quantity over quality. OR Do you guys think I need more time cutting to develop speed? Beforehand I did need a little learning curve to cut and I have gotten through that now. It's just the speed that is killing me. And I also see if anyone at my work detours me for any reason like for example data entry person from front desk ask for missing gross dictation, then that lost time is very hard to recover as I am not s fast to recover. I feel I may have to become very rude(not help) with everyone I work around in order to stay glued to my seat when I am cutting my blocks. One thing I want to say also...until this day I never been written up for quality issues and I never lost any tissue while embedding. Embedding I am fast as most histotech (1 block a min or most times 30-45 secs 1 block) with proper embedding techniques demonstrated (tissue on same plane, tissue embedded with proper orientation and follow any other necessary embedding instructions. ) I just feel I haven't done my time in cutting as I did in embedding to become a fast cutter. I don't know if its because of working in a derm lab that management won't wait too long for you to develop like maybe a hospital lab may do. I was also thinking to find another histo job but not mention any of my experience so expectation won't be so high and I can get more time to develop. All of this also causes alot of stress and anxiety as it gets hard to coop with. What do you guys think and how I should go about with this. I am also not limited to histology. I have expertise in 2 other major fields that I wont mention because I don't want to be identified. I am also in my late 20's. Thanks for reading my post and I await your opinions as some of you all are veterans in the field of histology. Thank you Alpha Histotech (ASCP HT) ___ Histonet mailing list Histonet@lists.utsouthwestern.edu http://lists.utsouthwestern.edu/mailman/listinfo/histonet __ CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: The information in this e-mail may be confidential and/or privileged. If you are not the intended recipient or an authorized representative of the intended
