Re: [hlds] TF2 Stats Service
Yeah, we did the same for a while as well. With 3.2 of PS, though, streaming will be fully supported. So I think using PS will be better since it is still supported publicly. I'm just waiting for it to be released to update all of our servers. -Original Message- From: Rick Payton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:24 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Stats Service See, one of the things HLstats HLStatsX both have over PS is the ability to show in game the real time stats of your account on that server. Yes, in PS you can see your current stats in game as well, but they are stale until the next time the host does a PS run. Unless PS has converted over to a real time strategy as it were, that is one of the major differences between the 2. Aside from that, they both seem to incorporate much of the same features, save for whatever community stuff has been included in PS. Honestly, when I ran stats, I ran both HLStatsX and PS, to give players their choice of how to view their info, as some players are die hard PS fans and vice versa ... I am admittedly more of a hlstats fan then PS (personal preference) but I do think they're BOTH fine pieces of software. As it was said before, there's no need to re-invent the wheel - so how about coming up with a really slick way to integrate either stats package into a clansites blog/website/forum account or something to that effect? Rick Payton, I.T. Manager Morikawa Associates, LLC (808) 572-1745 Office (808) 572-6323 Fax www.mai-hawaii.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] TF2 Stats Service
Depending on your definition of supported publicly, so is HLstatsX. Just not by the original person to make the modification to HLstats. There are still two active communities for HLstatsX. Lart's mod - http://lart2150.com/forums ELstatsNEO - http://forums.elstatsneo.de Both forums are active and both sets of the stats are very close to being on par featurewise with the paid version of HLstatsX by Tobi. Features are still being added and bugs are still being fixed. Isn't much different than psychostats in that regard. Both are community supported in a sense. Keeper wrote: Yeah, we did the same for a while as well. With 3.2 of PS, though, streaming will be fully supported. So I think using PS will be better since it is still supported publicly. I'm just waiting for it to be released to update all of our servers. -Original Message- From: Rick Payton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:24 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Stats Service See, one of the things HLstats HLStatsX both have over PS is the ability to show in game the real time stats of your account on that server. Yes, in PS you can see your current stats in game as well, but they are stale until the next time the host does a PS run. Unless PS has converted over to a real time strategy as it were, that is one of the major differences between the 2. Aside from that, they both seem to incorporate much of the same features, save for whatever community stuff has been included in PS. Honestly, when I ran stats, I ran both HLStatsX and PS, to give players their choice of how to view their info, as some players are die hard PS fans and vice versa ... I am admittedly more of a hlstats fan then PS (personal preference) but I do think they're BOTH fine pieces of software. As it was said before, there's no need to re-invent the wheel - so how about coming up with a really slick way to integrate either stats package into a clansites blog/website/forum account or something to that effect? Rick Payton, I.T. Manager Morikawa Associates, LLC (808) 572-1745 Office (808) 572-6323 Fax www.mai-hawaii.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] TF2 Stats Service
Not to double-post, but i mistyped the link for ELstatsNEO It's http://forum.elstatsneo.de i had forums Keeper wrote: Yeah, we did the same for a while as well. With 3.2 of PS, though, streaming will be fully supported. So I think using PS will be better since it is still supported publicly. I'm just waiting for it to be released to update all of our servers. -Original Message- From: Rick Payton [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 9:24 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Stats Service See, one of the things HLstats HLStatsX both have over PS is the ability to show in game the real time stats of your account on that server. Yes, in PS you can see your current stats in game as well, but they are stale until the next time the host does a PS run. Unless PS has converted over to a real time strategy as it were, that is one of the major differences between the 2. Aside from that, they both seem to incorporate much of the same features, save for whatever community stuff has been included in PS. Honestly, when I ran stats, I ran both HLStatsX and PS, to give players their choice of how to view their info, as some players are die hard PS fans and vice versa ... I am admittedly more of a hlstats fan then PS (personal preference) but I do think they're BOTH fine pieces of software. As it was said before, there's no need to re-invent the wheel - so how about coming up with a really slick way to integrate either stats package into a clansites blog/website/forum account or something to that effect? Rick Payton, I.T. Manager Morikawa Associates, LLC (808) 572-1745 Office (808) 572-6323 Fax www.mai-hawaii.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] TF2 Stats Service
Supported by the person and place where you download the package is what I mean. I brought up a recent security issue that has only been fixed in the premium service. There are so many issues that have been fixed by Tobi over the last year, but not in the available download. He also has removed his forums, so on the whole, it is not supported publicly. There are forums that people have set up, but that will only help the select few that happen across them. Bottom line, PsychoStats is the only one out of the two popular ones that is still supported and updated FOR FREE by the author. That's why I discourage using HLStatsX for any SRCDS server. I guess pigstats is still an option :P Keeper -Original Message- From: Nicholas Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 10:13 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Stats Service Not to double-post, but i mistyped the link for ELstatsNEO It's http://forum.elstatsneo.de i had forums ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] TF2 Stats Service
I understand this. But HLStatsX is in transition at the moment. Most people don't know where to go for support on it so they drop it and go to PsychoStats instead. At some point HLStatsX will have a new name and place on the web, but right now it's in a state of limbo. I hope it survives and gets revamped. We need more than one option out there. -Original Message- From: Nicholas Hastings [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 10:47 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Stats Service The recent security issue you brought up was fixed in version 2.33 of elstatsneo and I believe is in the svn of lart's. These forums are now the preferred place to download HLstatsX if not using the paid service as the one at hlstatsx.com does not even support orangebox games (tf2 and dods). Also, what does it matter if it's the author that supports it or not? Technically Tobi isn't the author of HLstatsX. He just modified HLstats. When working with code that is all open, it's just as easy for others to become knowledgable about the code, especially when there are many working together, rather than one person that knows what's going on. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] TF2 Stats Service
This was touched on already, but PS already has experimental streaming support and 3.2 will have official support. This SM plugin works well for in-game stats: http://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?t=69102 I got tired of keeping both HLstats and Psychostats running, and since PS is more full-featured than HLSx I stayed with it, upped how often we run stats (eagerly waiting for 3.2's streaming support!), and installed that SM plugin. My regulars are happy with this solution... On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 8:24 PM, Rick Payton [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: See, one of the things HLstats HLStatsX both have over PS is the ability to show in game the real time stats of your account on that server. Yes, in PS you can see your current stats in game as well, but they are stale until the next time the host does a PS run. Unless PS has converted over to a real time strategy as it were, that is one of the major differences between the 2. Aside from that, they both seem to incorporate much of the same features, save for whatever community stuff has been included in PS. Honestly, when I ran stats, I ran both HLStatsX and PS, to give players their choice of how to view their info, as some players are die hard PS fans and vice versa ... I am admittedly more of a hlstats fan then PS (personal preference) but I do think they're BOTH fine pieces of software. As it was said before, there's no need to re-invent the wheel - so how about coming up with a really slick way to integrate either stats package into a clansites blog/website/forum account or something to that effect? Rick Payton, I.T. Manager Morikawa Associates, LLC (808) 572-1745 Office (808) 572-6323 Fax www.mai-hawaii.com -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Keeper Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 2:49 PM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Stats Service PsychoStats is customizable in so many ways. Storm has really worked to allow community ideas and to incorporate some into his release packages. HLStatsX was a pretty good second in my book until Tobi got greedy. Now it does not and cannot hold a candle to PS. I agree with chillicane, no need to start from scratch when you can enhance an existing platform. -Original Message- From: chillicane [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, July 21, 2008 7:18 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] TF2 Stats Service My 2 cents, i run phsychostats and i find it to be very feature complete for TF2 and of course can be extended if particular functionality is needed. These projects, HLstatsX, Psychostats etc, have lots of project members and are still very active projects, so if i was personally thinking about adding another to the mix i would have to find a major flaw or missing feature set in an existing project before attempting this rather large undertaking. Perhaps check out what can be done to customize/extend existing solutions? As my mentors always used to tell me, 'no need to reinvent the wheel, just make it better!' On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 7:01 AM, Rian Brooks-Kane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Suggestion: Independant PFF Voicecom channel
As you know, a lot of people use the VoiceCom Play-From-File feature (Heretofore refereed to as PFF) to do things like play music and prerecorded sounds with the assistance of tools like HLSS and HLDJ. While many people find this annoying, others rather enjoy it. Unfortunately for everybody, the sound files used must be converted to a low-quality wave file and altered to prevent distortion, and are played back through the general VoiceCom system. My suggestion is actually quite simple and would improve enjoyment for all players across the board, with the notable exception of people who play the game for the sake of causing others grief. Step 1: Add a second VoiceCom channel. The current voice channel should be renamed to reflect it's status as a sub-channel, such as VoxChan, and this second one should be titled something like PFFChan. Step 2: Force any audio that's played from a file to be broadcast over PFFChan, and any audio from a system input to be broadcast over VoxChan Step 3: Allow people to selectively mute entire channels so that they can (if they so choose) listen exclusively to people talking, to exclusively file-based content, to everything, or to nothing at all. Allow servers to block PFFChan and/or VoxChan via a setting, just as servers can block VoiceCom now. Step 4: Add support streaming precompressed files (MP3 and OGG formats would likely be best), since precompressed files have a much higher quality to bandwidth ratio. This allows for full-quality sound for far less bandwidth. (Limiting it to 96kbps would be acceptable) Step 5: Increase flexibility of sound options to allow players to adjust the three-way balance between the two channels and the game as they see fit. The following are optional, but recommended: Option 1: Support for media information (ie: ID3) so that players could be easily informed as to the source of a file (Via overlay, menu, or HUD message). Option 2: Local buffering options to prevent skips, drops, or desychs in playback. File playback is not as time-sensitive as voice, and so a local buffer could protect against sudden lagspikes or short periods of lessened bandwidth. Although the ability to manage these files in game would be convenient, there are actively maintained third-party packages that would be quickly retrofit for this task. Benefits: *Easier server administration: Many servers disapprove of PFF, but encourage the use of VoiceCom. These servers are often faced with transient players who make use of the PFF feature, often resulting in the admins being forced to take action against them. Blocking PFFChan on a server would preemptively stop most such events. *Increased Difficulty for Griefers: If PFFChan is blocked on a server, then griefers would need to use either an awkward hardware solution or a virtual soundcard driver/software package. *Increased PFF Audio clarity: Currently PFF is limited to 11khz 16bit mono sound, which quite frankly is horrible. Since compression takes far more CPU time than decompression, and is by it's very nature a time/memory trade-off, you can get far better quality for the same bandwidth without increasing CPU load by simply streaming precompressed audio instead of compressing streamed audio under heavy CPU load. *Decreased Bandwidth Consumption: As corollary to the above, the bandwidth consumption is less per quality for precompressed audio than for real-time compression. A carefully chosen KBPS limit would allow both vastly improved quality and reduced bandwidth. Here's a crude flowchart showing the key differences between the current system and the one I propose: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/Baikasu/voicecomflow_MkII-1.gif ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion: Independant PFF Voicecom channel
I highly doubt this is at all a priority for Valve, but some things to consider: Currently, voice is streamed through the game/engine using a speex codec, optimized for voice and bandwidth. This is why music sounds shitty. Basically what you're proposing is leaving voice chat be and adding a music-broadcast system. The vassst majority of servers would disable this *immediately*. People would want admin options for it. There would be issues with most *players* disabling this all the time, so not everyone would be hearing your music *anyway*. Here's a better idea: Enable javascript in the MoTD. DONE! MoTDs can embed windows media objects. This is used on many severs as a 'radio' thing. If they made ajax possible in the motd, it would also be easy to have an admin controlled music channel (and many packages would pop up that let server admins do this). There's no restrictions on a windows media stream, and there's a *lot* that could be done to integrate it with the server and tailor it to different needs. And it wouldn't require any work on valve's part other than enabling javascript and letting the players do it. In terms of realism, this would happen first. Servers could now realistically have a 'Music' system built into them, though it would be admin controlled, not player controlled. And might actually be a good tool to add flavor to servers, other than a tool to make blasting music at each other easier. Not that any of this is ever happening. - Neph On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 2:55 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: As you know, a lot of people use the VoiceCom Play-From-File feature (Heretofore refereed to as PFF) to do things like play music and prerecorded sounds with the assistance of tools like HLSS and HLDJ. While many people find this annoying, others rather enjoy it. Unfortunately for everybody, the sound files used must be converted to a low-quality wave file and altered to prevent distortion, and are played back through the general VoiceCom system. My suggestion is actually quite simple and would improve enjoyment for all players across the board, with the notable exception of people who play the game for the sake of causing others grief. Step 1: Add a second VoiceCom channel. The current voice channel should be renamed to reflect it's status as a sub-channel, such as VoxChan, and this second one should be titled something like PFFChan. Step 2: Force any audio that's played from a file to be broadcast over PFFChan, and any audio from a system input to be broadcast over VoxChan Step 3: Allow people to selectively mute entire channels so that they can (if they so choose) listen exclusively to people talking, to exclusively file-based content, to everything, or to nothing at all. Allow servers to block PFFChan and/or VoxChan via a setting, just as servers can block VoiceCom now. Step 4: Add support streaming precompressed files (MP3 and OGG formats would likely be best), since precompressed files have a much higher quality to bandwidth ratio. This allows for full-quality sound for far less bandwidth. (Limiting it to 96kbps would be acceptable) Step 5: Increase flexibility of sound options to allow players to adjust the three-way balance between the two channels and the game as they see fit. The following are optional, but recommended: Option 1: Support for media information (ie: ID3) so that players could be easily informed as to the source of a file (Via overlay, menu, or HUD message). Option 2: Local buffering options to prevent skips, drops, or desychs in playback. File playback is not as time-sensitive as voice, and so a local buffer could protect against sudden lagspikes or short periods of lessened bandwidth. Although the ability to manage these files in game would be convenient, there are actively maintained third-party packages that would be quickly retrofit for this task. Benefits: *Easier server administration: Many servers disapprove of PFF, but encourage the use of VoiceCom. These servers are often faced with transient players who make use of the PFF feature, often resulting in the admins being forced to take action against them. Blocking PFFChan on a server would preemptively stop most such events. *Increased Difficulty for Griefers: If PFFChan is blocked on a server, then griefers would need to use either an awkward hardware solution or a virtual soundcard driver/software package. *Increased PFF Audio clarity: Currently PFF is limited to 11khz 16bit mono sound, which quite frankly is horrible. Since compression takes far more CPU time than decompression, and is by it's very nature a time/memory trade-off, you can get far better quality for the same bandwidth without increasing CPU load by simply streaming precompressed audio instead of compressing streamed audio under heavy CPU load. *Decreased Bandwidth Consumption: As corollary to the above, the bandwidth consumption is less per quality for precompressed audio than for
Re: [hlds] Suggestion: Independant PFF Voicecom channel
Why not enable use of the mp3 command, I used to always use it and its of high request at the moment since there arent many programs that can do the same ingame. http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_MP3_Player It states you have to edit a dll to get it to work. That would fix one problem. I use a flash mp3 player called flam and it works but not well ingame since its flash. The buttons are all off and hard to actualy press, click to the left many times or to the right of the actual button. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion: Independant PFF Voicecom channel
Are you sure that mp3 still work? AFAIK its not working... On Tue, Jul 22, 2008 at 11:10 PM, DontWannaName! [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Why not enable use of the mp3 command, I used to always use it and its of high request at the moment since there arent many programs that can do the same ingame. http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_MP3_Player It states you have to edit a dll to get it to work. That would fix one problem. I use a flash mp3 player called flam and it works but not well ingame since its flash. The buttons are all off and hard to actualy press, click to the left many times or to the right of the actual button. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion: Independant PFF Voicecom channel
That amounts to facilitating the listening of the music. Whilst the ability is there but not encouraged Valve are probably ok. With tools about to play music over the channels TECHNICALLY the people playing it need to be paying royalties I also doubt it would stop people playing it over the voice channel using the age old method (heh) of sticking their mic against the speaker ;) Still, good idea :)| Tom -- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Tuesday, July 22, 2008 8:55 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: [hlds] Suggestion: Independant PFF Voicecom channel As you know, a lot of people use the VoiceCom Play-From-File feature (Heretofore refereed to as PFF) to do things like play music and prerecorded sounds with the assistance of tools like HLSS and HLDJ. While many people find this annoying, others rather enjoy it. Unfortunately for everybody, the sound files used must be converted to a low-quality wave file and altered to prevent distortion, and are played back through the general VoiceCom system. My suggestion is actually quite simple and would improve enjoyment for all players across the board, with the notable exception of people who play the game for the sake of causing others grief. Step 1: Add a second VoiceCom channel. The current voice channel should be renamed to reflect it's status as a sub-channel, such as VoxChan, and this second one should be titled something like PFFChan. Step 2: Force any audio that's played from a file to be broadcast over PFFChan, and any audio from a system input to be broadcast over VoxChan Step 3: Allow people to selectively mute entire channels so that they can (if they so choose) listen exclusively to people talking, to exclusively file-based content, to everything, or to nothing at all. Allow servers to block PFFChan and/or VoxChan via a setting, just as servers can block VoiceCom now. Step 4: Add support streaming precompressed files (MP3 and OGG formats would likely be best), since precompressed files have a much higher quality to bandwidth ratio. This allows for full-quality sound for far less bandwidth. (Limiting it to 96kbps would be acceptable) Step 5: Increase flexibility of sound options to allow players to adjust the three-way balance between the two channels and the game as they see fit. The following are optional, but recommended: Option 1: Support for media information (ie: ID3) so that players could be easily informed as to the source of a file (Via overlay, menu, or HUD message). Option 2: Local buffering options to prevent skips, drops, or desychs in playback. File playback is not as time-sensitive as voice, and so a local buffer could protect against sudden lagspikes or short periods of lessened bandwidth. Although the ability to manage these files in game would be convenient, there are actively maintained third-party packages that would be quickly retrofit for this task. Benefits: *Easier server administration: Many servers disapprove of PFF, but encourage the use of VoiceCom. These servers are often faced with transient players who make use of the PFF feature, often resulting in the admins being forced to take action against them. Blocking PFFChan on a server would preemptively stop most such events. *Increased Difficulty for Griefers: If PFFChan is blocked on a server, then griefers would need to use either an awkward hardware solution or a virtual soundcard driver/software package. *Increased PFF Audio clarity: Currently PFF is limited to 11khz 16bit mono sound, which quite frankly is horrible. Since compression takes far more CPU time than decompression, and is by it's very nature a time/memory trade-off, you can get far better quality for the same bandwidth without increasing CPU load by simply streaming precompressed audio instead of compressing streamed audio under heavy CPU load. *Decreased Bandwidth Consumption: As corollary to the above, the bandwidth consumption is less per quality for precompressed audio than for real-time compression. A carefully chosen KBPS limit would allow both vastly improved quality and reduced bandwidth. Here's a crude flowchart showing the key differences between the current system and the one I propose: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v247/Baikasu/voicecomflow_MkII-1.gif ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Suggestion: Independant PFF Voicecom channel
That amounts to facilitating the listening of the music. Whilst the ability is there but not encouraged Valve are probably ok. With tools about to play music over the channels TECHNICALLY the people playing it need to be paying royalties There's already HLSS and HLDJ and such; this would basically be improving the support on that end and making it easier to mute people. Royalties aren't any more of a factor than they've always been I also doubt it would stop people playing it over the voice channel using the age old method (heh) of sticking their mic against the speaker ;) True, but about the only think that would stop THAT is tossing the entire audio communication idea out the window. - I highly doubt this is at all a priority for Valve, but some things to consider: Currently, voice is streamed through the game/engine using a speex codec, optimized for voice and bandwidth. Speex is optimized for voice and bandwidth, this is true, but it's also heavily optimized for low CPU usage. It's better than raw waveforms, but it can't hold a candle to precompressed audio. Since this is for HLSS-type usage where you're streaming a file, the time/memory tradeoff for MP3 or OGG files makes the most sense. You can take a bite out of bandwidth and filesize while still getting improved quality. This is why music sounds shitty. Basically what you're proposing is leaving voice chat be and adding a music-broadcast system. The vassst majority of servers would disable this *immediately*. ... and thus block the usage of HLSS and HLDJ. Yea, isn't it nice how that works out? :D People would want admin options for it. There would be issues with most *players* disabling this all the time, so not everyone would be hearing your music *anyway*. More power to them, I say! Here's a better idea: Enable javascript in the MoTD. DONE! That's opening the door for possible security risks, and doesn't solve any problems. There are two basic kinds of HLSS user; there's the kind that is out to cause grief, and there's the kind that enjoys actively participating in a shared experience. The ones out for a shared experience wouldn't benefit from server-side music playing, since it doesn't help them share with others or others share with them. I've found a lot of really nice music through HLSS (Creative Commons, mostly), and that has a very positive effect on my playing experience. The ones that are out to cause grief, however, would be discouraged by being denied the use of tools that makes it easy - to wit, HLSS and HLDJ. While I'm certain that some will resort to a hardware bypass, plenty of them would just give up and find easier ways to be annoying. In terms of realism, this would happen first. Servers could now realistically have a 'Music' system built into them, though it would be admin controlled, not player controlled. I've seen servers doing that already. Popular methods include making the client download music as a file and then using a command to make the client play that file, and embedding the music into the MOTD without javascript and just updating the MOTD when the admin wants to change songs. And might actually be a good tool to add flavor to servers, other than a tool to make blasting music at each other easier. One of the goals here is to have the people who like to blast music and such at each other group-up into servers that are OK with it. That alone would be a great boon to the community, I think. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
