Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback?
Why argue about it? Valves not going to change it. Just let them slowly kill their game and then they will realize eventually when its too late. Valve has and always will slap server admins in the face, when we are players too, they just don't like catering to the more intelligent gamer. James McKenna wrote: Can we run 64 player dod:s servers yet? ;) On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Timothy L Havener [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amen, brother. Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Not this bullshit again. The custom tab has to be scratched, all servers should be displayed by default. Players should then be allowed to filter tags they like or do not like. If a player learns to use tags, great. If they don't, they see all options. This is what's important, if you by default HIDE 'custom' servers, the majority of the players who don't care will never see the so called custom servers. The whole tag system is flawed, let's say I run a 24 server without fast respawn. No tags are added by valve without any kind of mods manipulating the tags. But I add a grapple hook for all players. What server operator in their right mind would voluntarily add a tag that results in their server effectively being delisted? NOBODY. And then what is valve going to do about that? Are they going to come tell server ops hey you HAVE to list tags. Is valve going to hire a bunch of people to look for servers to make sure they aren't modded? Doubtful. In its current implementation server operators have an incentive to avoid tags, if all servers are shown by default with their respective tags, server operators would have an incentive to SHOW their tags. It's basically saying hey! Look what we got!, but if players don't see this by default, it will be worthless. How hard is it to understand this? Valve probably realized their mistake and might be correcting it. At least I hope so. The custom tab will be an eternal cat and mouse game between server operators and valve. Valve can very easily solve the problem and make everyone happy just by having the servers all visible by default. Players who want custom, can find it. Players who want vanilla, can find it. Players who don't care or don't know what they want, or don't know how to use the filters, have all options shown to them so they can make their mind on the fly. If you go to a restaurant and the waiter gives you a menu, and without you knowing, there is two different menus, but they give you the standard menu, chances are, very few people will ever ask hey what's on the other menu Also, increased_maxplayers is probably one of the stupidest tags ever. It's like a bag of peanuts with the warning: Warning: contains peanuts. Like players can't tell it's a 32 player server without reading the tags. - voogru. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SakeFox Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:57 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback? Well just because you pay for your servers doesn't give you rights to do whatever with there programs. Valve has been good about allowing people to modify there games, but i can see there point in what they are doing. They want people that are getting into the game to be able to play it as it was created and not with modified settings. There not limiting anyone from running there servers how they want. They are just looking at how new people experience the game. Now the game was designed for 24players in a server, so if you have a 32 person complaining about balancing issues in a game, that information is kinda scewed because the game is not played as intended. I really didn't want to create the bullshit from a few weeks ago either, however i think it was a few months ago, but since no one else has been calling Valve out on there short comings and completely ignoring issues with there games I thought I might as well start somewhere. This really wasn't intended to start the flame back up, but thought it to bring this bit up of there idle threats first and get it out of the way since its the most touchy of things. tgnwells wrote: I think the problem is valve set up the rules without thinking much about them, or more obviously, how the community would react to being forced to have to adapt to these changes when there's really no reason to. And a lot of people pay good money for their hosted servers, I don't think Valve should be moderating the servers people put up and start punishing people for something that doesn't really matter either way, I especially hope they don't think they should as well. And to think this whole custom tags argument bullshit
Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback?
I'd like to think Valve is smarter than that. - voogru. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [??R] The-/iller Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 11:12 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback? Why argue about it? Valves not going to change it. Just let them slowly kill their game and then they will realize eventually when its too late. Valve has and always will slap server admins in the face, when we are players too, they just don't like catering to the more intelligent gamer. James McKenna wrote: Can we run 64 player dod:s servers yet? ;) On Fri, Jul 25, 2008 at 7:25 PM, Timothy L Havener [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Amen, brother. Spencer 'voogru' MacDonald wrote: Not this bullshit again. The custom tab has to be scratched, all servers should be displayed by default. Players should then be allowed to filter tags they like or do not like. If a player learns to use tags, great. If they don't, they see all options. This is what's important, if you by default HIDE 'custom' servers, the majority of the players who don't care will never see the so called custom servers. The whole tag system is flawed, let's say I run a 24 server without fast respawn. No tags are added by valve without any kind of mods manipulating the tags. But I add a grapple hook for all players. What server operator in their right mind would voluntarily add a tag that results in their server effectively being delisted? NOBODY. And then what is valve going to do about that? Are they going to come tell server ops hey you HAVE to list tags. Is valve going to hire a bunch of people to look for servers to make sure they aren't modded? Doubtful. In its current implementation server operators have an incentive to avoid tags, if all servers are shown by default with their respective tags, server operators would have an incentive to SHOW their tags. It's basically saying hey! Look what we got!, but if players don't see this by default, it will be worthless. How hard is it to understand this? Valve probably realized their mistake and might be correcting it. At least I hope so. The custom tab will be an eternal cat and mouse game between server operators and valve. Valve can very easily solve the problem and make everyone happy just by having the servers all visible by default. Players who want custom, can find it. Players who want vanilla, can find it. Players who don't care or don't know what they want, or don't know how to use the filters, have all options shown to them so they can make their mind on the fly. If you go to a restaurant and the waiter gives you a menu, and without you knowing, there is two different menus, but they give you the standard menu, chances are, very few people will ever ask hey what's on the other menu Also, increased_maxplayers is probably one of the stupidest tags ever. It's like a bag of peanuts with the warning: Warning: contains peanuts. Like players can't tell it's a 32 player server without reading the tags. - voogru. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of SakeFox Sent: Wednesday, July 23, 2008 9:57 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback? Well just because you pay for your servers doesn't give you rights to do whatever with there programs. Valve has been good about allowing people to modify there games, but i can see there point in what they are doing. They want people that are getting into the game to be able to play it as it was created and not with modified settings. There not limiting anyone from running there servers how they want. They are just looking at how new people experience the game. Now the game was designed for 24players in a server, so if you have a 32 person complaining about balancing issues in a game, that information is kinda scewed because the game is not played as intended. I really didn't want to create the bullshit from a few weeks ago either, however i think it was a few months ago, but since no one else has been calling Valve out on there short comings and completely ignoring issues with there games I thought I might as well start somewhere. This really wasn't intended to start the flame back up, but thought it to bring this bit up of there idle threats first and get it out of the way since its the most touchy of things. tgnwells wrote: I think the problem is valve set up the rules without thinking much about them, or more obviously, how the community would react to being forced to have to adapt to these changes when there's really no reason to. And a lot of people pay good
Re: [hlds] valve, some feedback?
[??R] The-/iller wrote: Valve has and always will slap server admins in the face, when we are players too, they just don't like catering to the more intelligent gamer. I see what you did there. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
[hlds] Sourcetv and DoD:S
Running a 32 player dod:s server with sourcetv seems to present my players with the bogus slot 33 error and kick them. Is there a workaround? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Sourcetv and DoD:S
It has been fixed on TF2. On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, SakeFox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I help run a few public TF2 servers. We had added sourcetv to the servers mainly for administrative reasons. its easier to get in that then in a full server. also we have found that our members like to go on there and watch while they wait for a open slot to get in the server. There are many other reasons for sourcetv other then matches. Heck at times i like to turn sourcetv on the projector and just watch it. Yes i know sad. About the issue on the topic, maybe someone can double check on this, but didn't we have this exact same problem on the TF2 servers a few months ago? Neonicacid wrote: Is there a particular reason why you need SourceTV active on a 32-slot (public?) server? As far as I know the only time you need it is for match servers and such.. I don't think a public server would ever really get that much SourceTV attention, so you could probably just fix it by removing the seemingly unneeded SourceTV option (tv_enable 0).. However, I may be mistaken, since I am primarily a Counterstrike: Source server administrator, not Day of Defeat: Source.. Hope this helps! ~Neonicacid On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 5:19 PM, James McKenna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Running a 32 player dod:s server with sourcetv seems to present my players with the bogus slot 33 error and kick them. Is there a workaround? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Sourcetv and DoD:S
Neon, We use it to spectate reported cheaters. It allows us to watch them undetected. On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 8:09 PM, 1nsane [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It has been fixed on TF2. On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 9:58 PM, SakeFox [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I help run a few public TF2 servers. We had added sourcetv to the servers mainly for administrative reasons. its easier to get in that then in a full server. also we have found that our members like to go on there and watch while they wait for a open slot to get in the server. There are many other reasons for sourcetv other then matches. Heck at times i like to turn sourcetv on the projector and just watch it. Yes i know sad. About the issue on the topic, maybe someone can double check on this, but didn't we have this exact same problem on the TF2 servers a few months ago? Neonicacid wrote: Is there a particular reason why you need SourceTV active on a 32-slot (public?) server? As far as I know the only time you need it is for match servers and such.. I don't think a public server would ever really get that much SourceTV attention, so you could probably just fix it by removing the seemingly unneeded SourceTV option (tv_enable 0).. However, I may be mistaken, since I am primarily a Counterstrike: Source server administrator, not Day of Defeat: Source.. Hope this helps! ~Neonicacid On Sat, Jul 26, 2008 at 5:19 PM, James McKenna [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Running a 32 player dod:s server with sourcetv seems to present my players with the bogus slot 33 error and kick them. Is there a workaround? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
