Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
On Wed, Nov 26, 2008 at 2:32 AM, Karl Weckstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I totally disagree. I have (or currently do) host(ed) those games. There > are sample configs with documented cvars, particularly in the case of COD4. > All cvars for Quake3 were documented well (though some didn't work). Ut2k > had all SORTS of documented configs, like Instagib, Onslaught, etc. Not sure > how you can say this L4D business is "on par" with any of those releases. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Gottlieb > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:19 PM > To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server > instructions and server.cfg) > > Documentation for Source Dedicated Server has always been bad. > What makes you think that valve is hiding something? > If you need help, talk to the community. Both this listserv and > srcds.comare great tools. > > Get used to it. Documentation is bad. Releases are never smooth. Plugins > break. > > Do you know of another Dedicated Server community that has better official > documentation? Because it's not any better for CoD4 or UT2k4 or Quake3. > > ~ Matt > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Karl Weckstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > It isn't my job to start a wiki page or write valve's documentation. It's > > THEIR job. Not ours. To defend their lack of documentation is simply > absurd. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike O'Laughlen > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:57 PM > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server > > instructions and server.cfg) > > > > Yeah this thread has become unhelpful to anyone but yourself. I don't > even > > see what your problem is except complaining that the Internets aren't > > structured enough for you. > > > > Furthermore, some of these new cvars such as sv_steamgroup and > > sv_steamgroup_exclusive were added to the product just before release, so > > any documentation would have be kept up to date. Admins are typically > > technically savvy and able to google for this information. And the > > attitude > > that you need to be compensated to create the appropriate documentation > is > > bollocks. > > > > Here's a document on all the cvars (sans sv_steamgroup) > > http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf > > > > If that doesn't help, start a wiki page for l4d cvars/guide. You can > even > > add a link from the Valve developer wiki (not sure if it's the > appropriate > > wiki since its geared towards the SDK devs... but whatever): > > > > http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Left_4_dead > > > > > > > > > > I'm *not* supporting L4D until Valve gets their act together. I made > > the > > > > decision a day or two after release and numerous frustrating attempts > > to > > > get > > > > it behaving the way I wanted. > > > > > > > > To say "If you can't figure it out, then you shouldn't be a server > > > > operator" doesn't carry *ANY* weight with me. That's simply a > childish > > > jab > > > > at best and an excuse for valve at worst. > > > > > > > > There is no substitute for proper documentation. <---Read that. Now > > read > > > it > > > > again. Keep reading it until you understand what it means. > > > > > > > > Everyone on this list should be *EXPECTING* proper documentation for > > this > > > > product. Not begging for it or relying on the few people who managed > to > > > > kinda-sorta figure it out. It's half-assed, and I expect better from > > > Valve. > > > > I blindly believed that Valve would do right by server ops. I won't > > > blindly > > > > believe that anymore. > > > > > > > > Call me a whiner. Call me an attention-craver. I don't care. I *will* > > > voice > > > > my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it. > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > __
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
I totally disagree. I have (or currently do) host(ed) those games. There are sample configs with documented cvars, particularly in the case of COD4. All cvars for Quake3 were documented well (though some didn't work). Ut2k had all SORTS of documented configs, like Instagib, Onslaught, etc. Not sure how you can say this L4D business is "on par" with any of those releases. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Matthew Gottlieb Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 6:19 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg) Documentation for Source Dedicated Server has always been bad. What makes you think that valve is hiding something? If you need help, talk to the community. Both this listserv and srcds.comare great tools. Get used to it. Documentation is bad. Releases are never smooth. Plugins break. Do you know of another Dedicated Server community that has better official documentation? Because it's not any better for CoD4 or UT2k4 or Quake3. ~ Matt On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Karl Weckstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It isn't my job to start a wiki page or write valve's documentation. It's > THEIR job. Not ours. To defend their lack of documentation is simply absurd. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike O'Laughlen > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:57 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server > instructions and server.cfg) > > Yeah this thread has become unhelpful to anyone but yourself. I don't even > see what your problem is except complaining that the Internets aren't > structured enough for you. > > Furthermore, some of these new cvars such as sv_steamgroup and > sv_steamgroup_exclusive were added to the product just before release, so > any documentation would have be kept up to date. Admins are typically > technically savvy and able to google for this information. And the > attitude > that you need to be compensated to create the appropriate documentation is > bollocks. > > Here's a document on all the cvars (sans sv_steamgroup) > http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf > > If that doesn't help, start a wiki page for l4d cvars/guide. You can even > add a link from the Valve developer wiki (not sure if it's the appropriate > wiki since its geared towards the SDK devs... but whatever): > > http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Left_4_dead > > > > > > I'm *not* supporting L4D until Valve gets their act together. I made > the > > > decision a day or two after release and numerous frustrating attempts > to > > get > > > it behaving the way I wanted. > > > > > > To say "If you can't figure it out, then you shouldn't be a server > > > operator" doesn't carry *ANY* weight with me. That's simply a childish > > jab > > > at best and an excuse for valve at worst. > > > > > > There is no substitute for proper documentation. <---Read that. Now > read > > it > > > again. Keep reading it until you understand what it means. > > > > > > Everyone on this list should be *EXPECTING* proper documentation for > this > > > product. Not begging for it or relying on the few people who managed to > > > kinda-sorta figure it out. It's half-assed, and I expect better from > > Valve. > > > I blindly believed that Valve would do right by server ops. I won't > > blindly > > > believe that anymore. > > > > > > Call me a whiner. Call me an attention-craver. I don't care. I *will* > > voice > > > my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it. > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
Let's all do that. On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 6:47 PM, James McKenna <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > How about everyone shuts up? > > Sounds good. > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
How about everyone shuts up? Sounds good. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
Funny how you guys are the ones telling others to shut up about this...yet you are the ones that started a new thread, childishly renamed it and are STILL harping on about it. If you don't want to help solve problems, or provide feedback on problems so they can be fixed, then stop posting. The same goes for the folks that are excessively ranting/whining on the server functionality shortfalls and not being constructive with their criticisms. Sean On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 3:28 PM, msleeper <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Thank you. > > http://www.msleeper.com/files/hi5.gif > > On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 17:19 -0600, Matthew Gottlieb wrote: > > Documentation for Source Dedicated Server has always been bad. > > What makes you think that valve is hiding something? > > If you need help, talk to the community. Both this listserv and > > srcds.comare great tools. > > > > Get used to it. Documentation is bad. Releases are never smooth. > Plugins > > break. > > > > Do you know of another Dedicated Server community that has better > official > > documentation? Because it's not any better for CoD4 or UT2k4 or Quake3. > > > > ~ Matt > > > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Karl Weckstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > wrote: > > > > > It isn't my job to start a wiki page or write valve's documentation. > It's > > > THEIR job. Not ours. To defend their lack of documentation is simply > absurd. > > > > > > -Original Message- > > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike O'Laughlen > > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:57 PM > > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server > > > instructions and server.cfg) > > > > > > Yeah this thread has become unhelpful to anyone but yourself. I don't > even > > > see what your problem is except complaining that the Internets aren't > > > structured enough for you. > > > > > > Furthermore, some of these new cvars such as sv_steamgroup and > > > sv_steamgroup_exclusive were added to the product just before release, > so > > > any documentation would have be kept up to date. Admins are typically > > > technically savvy and able to google for this information. And the > > > attitude > > > that you need to be compensated to create the appropriate documentation > is > > > bollocks. > > > > > > Here's a document on all the cvars (sans sv_steamgroup) > > > http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf > > > > > > If that doesn't help, start a wiki page for l4d cvars/guide. You can > even > > > add a link from the Valve developer wiki (not sure if it's the > appropriate > > > wiki since its geared towards the SDK devs... but whatever): > > > > > > http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Left_4_dead > > > > > > > > > > > > > > I'm *not* supporting L4D until Valve gets their act together. I > made > > > the > > > > > decision a day or two after release and numerous frustrating > attempts > > > to > > > > get > > > > > it behaving the way I wanted. > > > > > > > > > > To say "If you can't figure it out, then you shouldn't be a server > > > > > operator" doesn't carry *ANY* weight with me. That's simply a > childish > > > > jab > > > > > at best and an excuse for valve at worst. > > > > > > > > > > There is no substitute for proper documentation. <---Read that. Now > > > read > > > > it > > > > > again. Keep reading it until you understand what it means. > > > > > > > > > > Everyone on this list should be *EXPECTING* proper documentation > for > > > this > > > > > product. Not begging for it or relying on the few people who > managed to > > > > > kinda-sorta figure it out. It's half-assed, and I expect better > from > > > > Valve. > > > > > I blindly believed that Valve would do right by server ops. I won't > > > > blindly > > > > > believe that anymore. > > > > > > > > > > Call me a whiner. Call me an attention-craver. I don't care. I > *will* > > > > voice > > > > > my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it. > > > _
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
Thank you. http://www.msleeper.com/files/hi5.gif On Tue, 2008-11-25 at 17:19 -0600, Matthew Gottlieb wrote: > Documentation for Source Dedicated Server has always been bad. > What makes you think that valve is hiding something? > If you need help, talk to the community. Both this listserv and > srcds.comare great tools. > > Get used to it. Documentation is bad. Releases are never smooth. Plugins > break. > > Do you know of another Dedicated Server community that has better official > documentation? Because it's not any better for CoD4 or UT2k4 or Quake3. > > ~ Matt > > On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Karl Weckstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > It isn't my job to start a wiki page or write valve's documentation. It's > > THEIR job. Not ours. To defend their lack of documentation is simply absurd. > > > > -Original Message- > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike O'Laughlen > > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:57 PM > > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > > Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server > > instructions and server.cfg) > > > > Yeah this thread has become unhelpful to anyone but yourself. I don't even > > see what your problem is except complaining that the Internets aren't > > structured enough for you. > > > > Furthermore, some of these new cvars such as sv_steamgroup and > > sv_steamgroup_exclusive were added to the product just before release, so > > any documentation would have be kept up to date. Admins are typically > > technically savvy and able to google for this information. And the > > attitude > > that you need to be compensated to create the appropriate documentation is > > bollocks. > > > > Here's a document on all the cvars (sans sv_steamgroup) > > http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf > > > > If that doesn't help, start a wiki page for l4d cvars/guide. You can even > > add a link from the Valve developer wiki (not sure if it's the appropriate > > wiki since its geared towards the SDK devs... but whatever): > > > > http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Left_4_dead > > > > > > > > > > I'm *not* supporting L4D until Valve gets their act together. I made > > the > > > > decision a day or two after release and numerous frustrating attempts > > to > > > get > > > > it behaving the way I wanted. > > > > > > > > To say "If you can't figure it out, then you shouldn't be a server > > > > operator" doesn't carry *ANY* weight with me. That's simply a childish > > > jab > > > > at best and an excuse for valve at worst. > > > > > > > > There is no substitute for proper documentation. <---Read that. Now > > read > > > it > > > > again. Keep reading it until you understand what it means. > > > > > > > > Everyone on this list should be *EXPECTING* proper documentation for > > this > > > > product. Not begging for it or relying on the few people who managed to > > > > kinda-sorta figure it out. It's half-assed, and I expect better from > > > Valve. > > > > I blindly believed that Valve would do right by server ops. I won't > > > blindly > > > > believe that anymore. > > > > > > > > Call me a whiner. Call me an attention-craver. I don't care. I *will* > > > voice > > > > my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it. > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
Documentation for Source Dedicated Server has always been bad. What makes you think that valve is hiding something? If you need help, talk to the community. Both this listserv and srcds.comare great tools. Get used to it. Documentation is bad. Releases are never smooth. Plugins break. Do you know of another Dedicated Server community that has better official documentation? Because it's not any better for CoD4 or UT2k4 or Quake3. ~ Matt On Tue, Nov 25, 2008 at 2:48 PM, Karl Weckstrom <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > It isn't my job to start a wiki page or write valve's documentation. It's > THEIR job. Not ours. To defend their lack of documentation is simply absurd. > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike O'Laughlen > Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:57 PM > To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server > instructions and server.cfg) > > Yeah this thread has become unhelpful to anyone but yourself. I don't even > see what your problem is except complaining that the Internets aren't > structured enough for you. > > Furthermore, some of these new cvars such as sv_steamgroup and > sv_steamgroup_exclusive were added to the product just before release, so > any documentation would have be kept up to date. Admins are typically > technically savvy and able to google for this information. And the > attitude > that you need to be compensated to create the appropriate documentation is > bollocks. > > Here's a document on all the cvars (sans sv_steamgroup) > http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf > > If that doesn't help, start a wiki page for l4d cvars/guide. You can even > add a link from the Valve developer wiki (not sure if it's the appropriate > wiki since its geared towards the SDK devs... but whatever): > > http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Left_4_dead > > > > > > I'm *not* supporting L4D until Valve gets their act together. I made > the > > > decision a day or two after release and numerous frustrating attempts > to > > get > > > it behaving the way I wanted. > > > > > > To say "If you can't figure it out, then you shouldn't be a server > > > operator" doesn't carry *ANY* weight with me. That's simply a childish > > jab > > > at best and an excuse for valve at worst. > > > > > > There is no substitute for proper documentation. <---Read that. Now > read > > it > > > again. Keep reading it until you understand what it means. > > > > > > Everyone on this list should be *EXPECTING* proper documentation for > this > > > product. Not begging for it or relying on the few people who managed to > > > kinda-sorta figure it out. It's half-assed, and I expect better from > > Valve. > > > I blindly believed that Valve would do right by server ops. I won't > > blindly > > > believe that anymore. > > > > > > Call me a whiner. Call me an attention-craver. I don't care. I *will* > > voice > > > my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it. > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
It isn't my job to start a wiki page or write valve's documentation. It's THEIR job. Not ours. To defend their lack of documentation is simply absurd. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike O'Laughlen Sent: Tuesday, November 25, 2008 1:57 PM To: hlds@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg) Yeah this thread has become unhelpful to anyone but yourself. I don't even see what your problem is except complaining that the Internets aren't structured enough for you. Furthermore, some of these new cvars such as sv_steamgroup and sv_steamgroup_exclusive were added to the product just before release, so any documentation would have be kept up to date. Admins are typically technically savvy and able to google for this information. And the attitude that you need to be compensated to create the appropriate documentation is bollocks. Here's a document on all the cvars (sans sv_steamgroup) http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf If that doesn't help, start a wiki page for l4d cvars/guide. You can even add a link from the Valve developer wiki (not sure if it's the appropriate wiki since its geared towards the SDK devs... but whatever): http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Left_4_dead > > I'm *not* supporting L4D until Valve gets their act together. I made the > > decision a day or two after release and numerous frustrating attempts to > get > > it behaving the way I wanted. > > > > To say "If you can't figure it out, then you shouldn't be a server > > operator" doesn't carry *ANY* weight with me. That's simply a childish > jab > > at best and an excuse for valve at worst. > > > > There is no substitute for proper documentation. <---Read that. Now read > it > > again. Keep reading it until you understand what it means. > > > > Everyone on this list should be *EXPECTING* proper documentation for this > > product. Not begging for it or relying on the few people who managed to > > kinda-sorta figure it out. It's half-assed, and I expect better from > Valve. > > I blindly believed that Valve would do right by server ops. I won't > blindly > > believe that anymore. > > > > Call me a whiner. Call me an attention-craver. I don't care. I *will* > voice > > my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
Re: [hlds] Lame Bitching (a.k.a. Re: How about some server instructions and server.cfg)
Yeah this thread has become unhelpful to anyone but yourself. I don't even see what your problem is except complaining that the Internets aren't structured enough for you. Furthermore, some of these new cvars such as sv_steamgroup and sv_steamgroup_exclusive were added to the product just before release, so any documentation would have be kept up to date. Admins are typically technically savvy and able to google for this information. And the attitude that you need to be compensated to create the appropriate documentation is bollocks. Here's a document on all the cvars (sans sv_steamgroup) http://www.left4dead411.com/l4d_cvar_list.pdf If that doesn't help, start a wiki page for l4d cvars/guide. You can even add a link from the Valve developer wiki (not sure if it's the appropriate wiki since its geared towards the SDK devs... but whatever): http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Left_4_dead > > I'm *not* supporting L4D until Valve gets their act together. I made the > > decision a day or two after release and numerous frustrating attempts to > get > > it behaving the way I wanted. > > > > To say "If you can't figure it out, then you shouldn't be a server > > operator" doesn't carry *ANY* weight with me. That's simply a childish > jab > > at best and an excuse for valve at worst. > > > > There is no substitute for proper documentation. <---Read that. Now read > it > > again. Keep reading it until you understand what it means. > > > > Everyone on this list should be *EXPECTING* proper documentation for this > > product. Not begging for it or relying on the few people who managed to > > kinda-sorta figure it out. It's half-assed, and I expect better from > Valve. > > I blindly believed that Valve would do right by server ops. I won't > blindly > > believe that anymore. > > > > Call me a whiner. Call me an attention-craver. I don't care. I *will* > voice > > my opinion if I feel strongly enough about it. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds
