Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Lag/Jitter
How can a high maxrate value choke clients? :/ if they're choking they just need to reduce their rate! On Thursday, 24 February 2011, Björn Rohlén bjorn.roh...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. Having fiddled with this particular issue since the beta-days, sv_maxrate 5 is sufficient for a 20 player server, unless you want to experience choke and weirdness on the clients. I would presume 24 and even 32 player servers would require even more. I'd watch out for going over 80k though, unless you want to choke players with bad internet-connections like 512kbit downstream to death. We actually tested this as well, since we had a 512kbit-player (hi snowie) and 75k was the value we settled on. This, of course, is because you make sv_minrate follow sv_maxrate as to avoid having the default rate of the client (25k) being set. If you are cheap, you could set minrate to 30k and maxrate to 60k and watch the awe of the server population when they suddenly notice a DRASTIC improvement in performance on your server. To put them into awe but still keep within acceptable limits, sv_minrate 45000 and sv_maxrate 75000 would probably do the trick. -TheG On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Vathral vath...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I'd like to work on an issue that members says they've been having. There have been complaints of lag and such that I'd like to look into. What are the default rates to work off? If possible I'd like to see what other admins out there are running as I do not fully understand how to tweak settings like fps, sv_maxrate, maxupdaterate, etc. Running a Xeon 3230 with 4gb of ram, CentOS5, 100 Mbps link. Running Sourcemod/MM with as few plugins as possible. No services like apache, mysql, logging disabled where possible. This is what I have so far on one server fps_max 300 // Frame rate limiter sv_maxreplay 2 sv_minrate 1 // Min bandwidth rate allowed on server, 0 == unlimited sv_maxrate 25000 // Max bandwidth rate allowed on server, 0 == unlimited sv_mincmdrate 33 sv_maxcmdrate 66 sv_minupdaterate 33 // Minimum updates per second that the server will allow sv_maxupdaterate 66 // Maximum updates per second that the server will allow Any suggestions? Yes theres Google but I trust what I've read on here such as with the whole FPS issue. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Thanks, - Saul. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Lag/Jitter
Hello Saul. I believe you are in error. The reason the clients choke, is because the CLIENT RATE of 25k is _not enough_ to accommodate all the delta- and full worldstate- packets sent from the server in intense situations. You can stand in spawn on most servers and be perfectly fine, but as soon as you start to move into areas with action going on (verify this with netgraph 3 or 4), you will notice the client getting chocked. This is everything from a chokevalue of 10 up to 100, which obviously is not good. Now, if you read my post carefully, you'll notice that when _I_ did it, I made the sv_minrate _FOLLOW_ the sv_maxrate, hence FORCING the clients above the default 25k value and also keeping the highraters to the same rate. This gave MUCH better performance on a 20 and 24 player server. As for 32 player servers, I would believe the amount of bandwidth would be quite hefty to make it acceptable, but oh well. My suggestion for REAL WORLD implementation was to NOT do it in this manner, but keep sv_minrate and sv_maxrate apart -- and let the clients who actually can DEAL with the increased number of packets, do so, while also making sure the casuals who could not care less about how things work, would get a fair performance as well. 60-75k is about what a client on a 512kbit connection can handle without getting loss/choke due to get too many packets (mind you, the sv_minrate above 25k is to ensure the client gets ENOUGH packets, since the default is not enough). Go ahead, try it. Go on a well configured server, run around with 25k rate and notice the choke. Set your rate above 50k and notice how the choke dissipates, models move smoother, rockets are not fired behind doors and other totally whack stuff -- magic! I think that about covers it? This has been up on this list about 2 years ago, I would recommend a search in the archives if you want to know more in-depth details. -TheG On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Saul Rennison saul.renni...@gmail.comwrote: How can a high maxrate value choke clients? :/ if they're choking they just need to reduce their rate! On Thursday, 24 February 2011, Björn Rohlén bjorn.roh...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. Having fiddled with this particular issue since the beta-days, sv_maxrate 5 is sufficient for a 20 player server, unless you want to experience choke and weirdness on the clients. I would presume 24 and even 32 player servers would require even more. I'd watch out for going over 80k though, unless you want to choke players with bad internet-connections like 512kbit downstream to death. We actually tested this as well, since we had a 512kbit-player (hi snowie) and 75k was the value we settled on. This, of course, is because you make sv_minrate follow sv_maxrate as to avoid having the default rate of the client (25k) being set. If you are cheap, you could set minrate to 30k and maxrate to 60k and watch the awe of the server population when they suddenly notice a DRASTIC improvement in performance on your server. To put them into awe but still keep within acceptable limits, sv_minrate 45000 and sv_maxrate 75000 would probably do the trick. -TheG On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Vathral vath...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I'd like to work on an issue that members says they've been having. There have been complaints of lag and such that I'd like to look into. What are the default rates to work off? If possible I'd like to see what other admins out there are running as I do not fully understand how to tweak settings like fps, sv_maxrate, maxupdaterate, etc. Running a Xeon 3230 with 4gb of ram, CentOS5, 100 Mbps link. Running Sourcemod/MM with as few plugins as possible. No services like apache, mysql, logging disabled where possible. This is what I have so far on one server fps_max 300 // Frame rate limiter sv_maxreplay 2 sv_minrate 1 // Min bandwidth rate allowed on server, 0 == unlimited sv_maxrate 25000 // Max bandwidth rate allowed on server, 0 == unlimited sv_mincmdrate 33 sv_maxcmdrate 66 sv_minupdaterate 33 // Minimum updates per second that the server will allow sv_maxupdaterate 66 // Maximum updates per second that the server will allow Any suggestions? Yes theres Google but I trust what I've read on here such as with the whole FPS issue. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Thanks, - Saul. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the
Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Lag/Jitter
sv_maxrate 25000 is indeed not enough. Unless you have a too slow uplink (server-side) we have found no disadvantages when using sv_maxrate 0, letting the client choose their own rate limit without arbitrary limits imposed from our side. 2011/2/24 Björn Rohlén bjorn.roh...@gmail.com: Hello Saul. I believe you are in error. The reason the clients choke, is because the CLIENT RATE of 25k is _not enough_ to accommodate all the delta- and full worldstate- packets sent from the server in intense situations. You can stand in spawn on most servers and be perfectly fine, but as soon as you start to move into areas with action going on (verify this with netgraph 3 or 4), you will notice the client getting chocked. This is everything from a chokevalue of 10 up to 100, which obviously is not good. Now, if you read my post carefully, you'll notice that when _I_ did it, I made the sv_minrate _FOLLOW_ the sv_maxrate, hence FORCING the clients above the default 25k value and also keeping the highraters to the same rate. This gave MUCH better performance on a 20 and 24 player server. As for 32 player servers, I would believe the amount of bandwidth would be quite hefty to make it acceptable, but oh well. My suggestion for REAL WORLD implementation was to NOT do it in this manner, but keep sv_minrate and sv_maxrate apart -- and let the clients who actually can DEAL with the increased number of packets, do so, while also making sure the casuals who could not care less about how things work, would get a fair performance as well. 60-75k is about what a client on a 512kbit connection can handle without getting loss/choke due to get too many packets (mind you, the sv_minrate above 25k is to ensure the client gets ENOUGH packets, since the default is not enough). Go ahead, try it. Go on a well configured server, run around with 25k rate and notice the choke. Set your rate above 50k and notice how the choke dissipates, models move smoother, rockets are not fired behind doors and other totally whack stuff -- magic! I think that about covers it? This has been up on this list about 2 years ago, I would recommend a search in the archives if you want to know more in-depth details. -TheG On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Saul Rennison saul.renni...@gmail.comwrote: How can a high maxrate value choke clients? :/ if they're choking they just need to reduce their rate! On Thursday, 24 February 2011, Björn Rohlén bjorn.roh...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. Having fiddled with this particular issue since the beta-days, sv_maxrate 5 is sufficient for a 20 player server, unless you want to experience choke and weirdness on the clients. I would presume 24 and even 32 player servers would require even more. I'd watch out for going over 80k though, unless you want to choke players with bad internet-connections like 512kbit downstream to death. We actually tested this as well, since we had a 512kbit-player (hi snowie) and 75k was the value we settled on. This, of course, is because you make sv_minrate follow sv_maxrate as to avoid having the default rate of the client (25k) being set. If you are cheap, you could set minrate to 30k and maxrate to 60k and watch the awe of the server population when they suddenly notice a DRASTIC improvement in performance on your server. To put them into awe but still keep within acceptable limits, sv_minrate 45000 and sv_maxrate 75000 would probably do the trick. -TheG On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Vathral vath...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I'd like to work on an issue that members says they've been having. There have been complaints of lag and such that I'd like to look into. What are the default rates to work off? If possible I'd like to see what other admins out there are running as I do not fully understand how to tweak settings like fps, sv_maxrate, maxupdaterate, etc. Running a Xeon 3230 with 4gb of ram, CentOS5, 100 Mbps link. Running Sourcemod/MM with as few plugins as possible. No services like apache, mysql, logging disabled where possible. This is what I have so far on one server fps_max 300 // Frame rate limiter sv_maxreplay 2 sv_minrate 1 // Min bandwidth rate allowed on server, 0 == unlimited sv_maxrate 25000 // Max bandwidth rate allowed on server, 0 == unlimited sv_mincmdrate 33 sv_maxcmdrate 66 sv_minupdaterate 33 // Minimum updates per second that the server will allow sv_maxupdaterate 66 // Maximum updates per second that the server will allow Any suggestions? Yes theres Google but I trust what I've read on here such as with the whole FPS issue. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Lag/Jitter
Hi, Sorry it was an early morning email. I don't really know what I was trying to say looking back but I should have said: Changing your minrate value won't affect choke on *properly configured clients*. Setting minrate to about 40,000 will just force all the badly configured clients to a decent rate. However, maxrate on the other hand, will limit your clients ability to be updated often enough to not cause jitter. Thanks, - Saul. 2011/2/24 Björn Rohlén bjorn.roh...@gmail.com Hello Saul. I believe you are in error. The reason the clients choke, is because the CLIENT RATE of 25k is _not enough_ to accommodate all the delta- and full worldstate- packets sent from the server in intense situations. You can stand in spawn on most servers and be perfectly fine, but as soon as you start to move into areas with action going on (verify this with netgraph 3 or 4), you will notice the client getting chocked. This is everything from a chokevalue of 10 up to 100, which obviously is not good. Now, if you read my post carefully, you'll notice that when _I_ did it, I made the sv_minrate _FOLLOW_ the sv_maxrate, hence FORCING the clients above the default 25k value and also keeping the highraters to the same rate. This gave MUCH better performance on a 20 and 24 player server. As for 32 player servers, I would believe the amount of bandwidth would be quite hefty to make it acceptable, but oh well. My suggestion for REAL WORLD implementation was to NOT do it in this manner, but keep sv_minrate and sv_maxrate apart -- and let the clients who actually can DEAL with the increased number of packets, do so, while also making sure the casuals who could not care less about how things work, would get a fair performance as well. 60-75k is about what a client on a 512kbit connection can handle without getting loss/choke due to get too many packets (mind you, the sv_minrate above 25k is to ensure the client gets ENOUGH packets, since the default is not enough). Go ahead, try it. Go on a well configured server, run around with 25k rate and notice the choke. Set your rate above 50k and notice how the choke dissipates, models move smoother, rockets are not fired behind doors and other totally whack stuff -- magic! I think that about covers it? This has been up on this list about 2 years ago, I would recommend a search in the archives if you want to know more in-depth details. -TheG On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 10:25 AM, Saul Rennison saul.renni...@gmail.com wrote: How can a high maxrate value choke clients? :/ if they're choking they just need to reduce their rate! On Thursday, 24 February 2011, Björn Rohlén bjorn.roh...@gmail.com wrote: Hello. Having fiddled with this particular issue since the beta-days, sv_maxrate 5 is sufficient for a 20 player server, unless you want to experience choke and weirdness on the clients. I would presume 24 and even 32 player servers would require even more. I'd watch out for going over 80k though, unless you want to choke players with bad internet-connections like 512kbit downstream to death. We actually tested this as well, since we had a 512kbit-player (hi snowie) and 75k was the value we settled on. This, of course, is because you make sv_minrate follow sv_maxrate as to avoid having the default rate of the client (25k) being set. If you are cheap, you could set minrate to 30k and maxrate to 60k and watch the awe of the server population when they suddenly notice a DRASTIC improvement in performance on your server. To put them into awe but still keep within acceptable limits, sv_minrate 45000 and sv_maxrate 75000 would probably do the trick. -TheG On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:14 PM, Vathral vath...@gmail.com wrote: Well, I'd like to work on an issue that members says they've been having. There have been complaints of lag and such that I'd like to look into. What are the default rates to work off? If possible I'd like to see what other admins out there are running as I do not fully understand how to tweak settings like fps, sv_maxrate, maxupdaterate, etc. Running a Xeon 3230 with 4gb of ram, CentOS5, 100 Mbps link. Running Sourcemod/MM with as few plugins as possible. No services like apache, mysql, logging disabled where possible. This is what I have so far on one server fps_max 300 // Frame rate limiter sv_maxreplay 2 sv_minrate 1 // Min bandwidth rate allowed on server, 0 == unlimited sv_maxrate 25000 // Max bandwidth rate allowed on server, 0 == unlimited sv_mincmdrate 33 sv_maxcmdrate 66 sv_minupdaterate 33 // Minimum updates per second that the server will allow sv_maxupdaterate 66 // Maximum updates per second that the server will allow Any suggestions? Yes theres Google
Re: [hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Lag/Jitter
Then again -- everyone does not have such awesome pipes as Lokalen does! :) On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 5:55 PM, lwf l...@lokalen.nu wrote: sv_maxrate 25000 is indeed not enough. Unless you have a too slow uplink (server-side) we have found no disadvantages when using sv_maxrate 0, letting the client choose their own rate limit without arbitrary limits imposed from our side. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] master server source 1 is down.
Thanks guys. Just working with the steam engineers to figure out what is going on. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Kyle Sanderson Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 11:32 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] master server source 1 is down. Confirming the first (72.165.61.153) is down for me as well. Yes, it is responding to echo requests. Cheers, Kyle. On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 11:08 PM, Eric Riemers riem...@binkey.nl wrote: Ping works fine, the box is up. It's the response that is not working as demonstrated by others. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Milton Ngan Sent: donderdag 24 februari 2011 2:52 To: 'Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list' Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] master server source 1 is down. We looked at this a while back. There are master servers running on all three. Can you ping and traceroute to the host? Can anyone else confirm that one of the master servers is not functioning? -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Eric Riemers Sent: Wednesday, February 23, 2011 6:06 AM To: 'Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list' Subject: [hlds_linux] master server source 1 is down. Milton, I mailed this before on the list but nothing has changed since. lethal@binkey:~/public_html/admin$ host hl2master.steampowered.com hl2master.steampowered.com A 72.165.61.153 hl2master.steampowered.com A 63.234.149.83 hl2master.steampowered.com A 63.234.149.90 The first entry 72.165.61.153 is as far as I can see not working. Has been for some time, it would be wiser to remove it or fix it to cut down on retry's and such. (and I actually prefer to use dns names instead of ip's) Thanks in advance, Eric ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] L4D2 update out
Incase you missed it, like i did, update your servers. -ics ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] L4D2 update out
They updated the master servers version of l4d2 today, while it was out yesterday. Happened last time too.. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of ics Sent: donderdag 24 februari 2011 20:18 To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: [hlds_linux] L4D2 update out Incase you missed it, like i did, update your servers. -ics ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Timeleft bug
Completely off-topic but are there any ways you know of that will force the auto-update if nobody is in the map? On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Eli Witt eliw...@gmail.com wrote: The server won't change maps until someone connects, regardless of mp_timelimit Same with auto-updates. On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 9:33 AM, dsadadsasd adsadasdsa thisisforgot...@mail.ru wrote: Hello, On first map timeleft stucks, until someone connects to server. So if I even have mp_timelimit 10/20, same map can stay few hours. Tested on CSS and HL2DM server, on both operation systems. Does somebody know how to fix it? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Timeleft bug
You can either use Nemrun or the SteamTools SourceMod extension. On Thu, Feb 24, 2011 at 2:41 PM, doc drga...@gmail.com wrote: Completely off-topic but are there any ways you know of that will force the auto-update if nobody is in the map? On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 7:09 AM, Eli Witt eliw...@gmail.com wrote: The server won't change maps until someone connects, regardless of mp_timelimit Same with auto-updates. On Wed, Feb 23, 2011 at 9:33 AM, dsadadsasd adsadasdsa thisisforgot...@mail.ru wrote: Hello, On first map timeleft stucks, until someone connects to server. So if I even have mp_timelimit 10/20, same map can stay few hours. Tested on CSS and HL2DM server, on both operation systems. Does somebody know how to fix it? ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] Team Fortress 2 Update Available
A required update for Team Fortress 2 is now available. Please run hldsupdatetool to receive the update. The specific changes include: Source Engine Changes (CS:S, DoD:S, TF2, HL2:DM) - Fixed another server crash exploit caused by malformed network packets. Team Fortress 2 - Added three new community maps: - Koth_Lakeside - PL_Frontier - PLR_Nightfall Jason ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
