Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?

[dan]

On 26/01/2013 18:51, Claudio Beretta wrote:

You can't really blame him for asking this:
-no announcement available at release
-client updates almost always make the server download the updated files,
even if it's optional for them
-tf2 history of forgetting to update steam.inf / master servers not sending
out the update notification
-tf2 history of mandatory updates being shipped as optional, and vice versa
-tf2 history of ghost updates

When no announcement is made, the only way to reliably figure out if an
update is required for servers is having a client update, trying to connect
to an outdated server.  Not everyone has a PC with tf2 always available.


I wasn't blaming him for anything. Just pointing out other ways to see 
what the client update was
in the 45 minutes he must have sat nervously sweating about if there was 
an update or not.


If he observed clients updating and connecting to his server then what I 
said applied - and if he
didn't observe clients updating or servers updating because of the stuff 
in your hypothetical list then
I can't imagine anyone would spontaneously decide to fret about whether 
there's an update or not.


The "truth", if you like, is the update process itself. If your server 
doesn't update or tell you there is an update, then there is no update.


All the fluff about ghost updates and so on is a red herring. If your 
client updates, then it updates - whether

the update is real or not is moot - your client is still updating isn't it?

So, asking here "is there an update" makes little sense if you have a 
server nor if you don't have one. In the former case
you can see for yourself if there is one and in the latter case it 
shouldn't really matter.


I've never been sure why they post the updates here, because it has 
served little useful purpose at all (It's main feature
seems to be to enable whoever's turn it is this week to reply to Eric's 
post moaning about whatever they don't currently like and to
point out why that feature or bug will mean the end of TF2 as we know 
it) or to ask the same question about counterstrike that's asked every time.


Now you want Eric to post when there aren't updates too? Because if 
there's no post saying there is an update
you don't think "There isn't an update" you ask anyway just in case 
there is one. Sheesh.


So yeah I get it, it's like when you get on a train, you know where you 
want to go, you know where the train is going from
all the evidence, but you still start sweating and have to ask someone 
"Is this the train to Greater Frogsbottom?" You don't trust any of the 
numerous things
telling you there is no update. In that case you'll just have to sit and 
sweat and see where the train goes.


Or it's like the timestamp some log programs put in syslog to stop 
admins who decide no error messages can't mean nothing's broken,
Eric needs to post once an hour to say "No update" so we know he's not 
merely forgotten to post.


--
Dan.

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?

[Claudio Beretta]

You can't really blame him for asking this:
-no announcement available at release
-client updates almost always make the server download the updated files,
even if it's optional for them
-tf2 history of forgetting to update steam.inf / master servers not sending
out the update notification
-tf2 history of mandatory updates being shipped as optional, and vice versa
-tf2 history of ghost updates

When no announcement is made, the only way to reliably figure out if an
update is required for servers is having a client update, trying to connect
to an outdated server.  Not everyone has a PC with tf2 always available.


On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 2:03 PM, dan  wrote:

> On 26/01/2013 01:49, wickedplayer494 . wrote:
>
>> Thing is, they weren't available for close to 45 minutes before now. There
>> was more than enough reason to inquire during then.
>>
>
> If your client updated and you connect to your non updated server it can't
> be mandatory.
>
> The tf2 wiki usually has an entry for client updates even if valve don't
> release
> a changelog.
>
> If there's no update, there's no update.  The server won't say there's an
> update, it won't download
> one etc etc.
>
> What specifically about the lack of any evidence for an update made you
> wonder if there might be one?
>
> --
> Dan
>
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?

[wickedplayer494 .]

The main question that I asked was "did servers even get it at all?" (not
"was this a mandatory update?"). Documentation was merely a secondary
question.

On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 7:03 AM, dan  wrote:

> On 26/01/2013 01:49, wickedplayer494 . wrote:
>
>> Thing is, they weren't available for close to 45 minutes before now. There
>> was more than enough reason to inquire during then.
>>
>
> If your client updated and you connect to your non updated server it can't
> be mandatory.
>
> The tf2 wiki usually has an entry for client updates even if valve don't
> release
> a changelog.
>
> If there's no update, there's no update.  The server won't say there's an
> update, it won't download
> one etc etc.
>
> What specifically about the lack of any evidence for an update made you
> wonder if there might be one?
>
> --
> Dan
>
>
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> please visit:
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Re: [hlds_linux] Random server oddities.

[dan]

On 26/01/2013 12:48, Essay Tew Phaun wrote:

I am positive that that is not the case and that walls are see through for
everyone.


Fair enough, but everyone uses the server and the client though :)

Is it specific maps?

FPS 385? Are you all using Billy's Buggy config or something like that?

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Re: [hlds_linux] Random server oddities.

[dan]

On 26/01/2013 12:58, Essay Tew Phaun wrote:

Forgot to mention. Valve responded to me directly that it could be related
to "rdtsc discrepancies"


Yeah, that's the timer thing. Presumably they think it may be going 
forwards and backwards

on different cores?

Do they always use it though? There's ACPI, HPET and TSC, if not other 
ways of getting timing.


No doubt your kernel config, your machine (as well as Valve's code) will 
determine which

are available, enabled and which are used.

Looks like the kernel tries to figure out if the TSC is reliable or not 
for itself :-

http://lxr.linux.no/linux+v2.6.38/arch/x86/kernel/tsc.c#L859

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Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?

[dan]

On 26/01/2013 01:49, wickedplayer494 . wrote:

Thing is, they weren't available for close to 45 minutes before now. There
was more than enough reason to inquire during then.


If your client updated and you connect to your non updated server it can't
be mandatory.

The tf2 wiki usually has an entry for client updates even if valve don't 
release

a changelog.

If there's no update, there's no update.  The server won't say there's 
an update, it won't download

one etc etc.

What specifically about the lack of any evidence for an update made you 
wonder if there might be one?


--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] Random server oddities.

[Essay Tew Phaun]

Forgot to mention. Valve responded to me directly that it could be related
to "rdtsc discrepancies"  and suggested I set each server to use a single
core. So I'm going to do that and see if it resolves the problem.

On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 7:51 AM, dan  wrote:

> On 25/01/2013 22:46, Essay Tew Phaun wrote:
>
>> Any idea what specifically about CentOS causes this? I'd prefer not to
>> switch the distro if at all possible. Could Valve possibly comment on
>> this?
>>
>
> It'll presumably be the kernel or the libraries. Not very specific though.
>
> If you have more than one server, I would switch one (I'd make it vanilla
> too), because finding the cause,
> assuming there even is one, will be far more effort than the half an hour
> it takes to install debian -
> and if it turns out there isn't one you'll have wasted a lot more time.
>
> Plus, if running one Debian machine fixes it you can either switch them
> all or, if you care, find what
> specifically causes it yourself by comparing things on the good and bad
> machines.
>
> My bet is, it won't, as the issues sound a bit too specific.
>
> Unless the payload thing is caused by whatever the engine uses to time
> things
> being different (which is no doubt a kernel config thing)
> I can't see how the game rules would be affected in the way described.
>
> I'd think it far more likely to be a plugin or a game bug.
>
> I've not really played any payload to say anything about those bugs though.
>
> I've certainly never seen through walls. 2fort's spawn door can have a
> glitch
> and refuse to open and let people out if there's a cloaked spy knocking
> around occasionally
> (at least I've attributed it to the presence of the spy, that could be
> coincidence)
>
> I've never had a problem picking up the intel in hundreds of hours of CTF
> - but perhaps the
> rule change to sticky and rocket jumper isn't well known and that explains
> it. Are we talking
> intel that is in the enemy base or that has been dropped somewhere along
> the way?
>
> Intel that is run into a spawn takes a tad longer to pick up as you exit.
>
> --
> Dan
>
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Tips for TF2 bball server config?

[Yun Huang Yong]

Yeah I posted here as a last resort after Googling for ages.

I did manage to find a shotgun limiter[1] but I'm still stumped on the 
2v2/3v3 + spectator thing.  Thought I'd ask here before writing my own.


[1] https://forums.alliedmods.net/showthread.php?p=746026

On 26/01/2013 11:18 PM, Erik-jan Riemers wrote:

Visit forums.alliedmods.net (google what you want) it surely has limiter +
weapon restriction plugins (sourcemod)

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Yun Huang
Yong
Sent: zaterdag 26 januari 2013 6:02
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated
Linux server mailing list
Subject: [hlds_linux] Tips for TF2 bball server config?

Just setup a TF2 bball server in Sydney, Australia.  Am hoping for some
tips (pointers to plugins perhaps) to config it well.

I'd like to limit the teams to 2v2 or 3v3 and have anyone else who joins
the server automatically be pushed to spectator so people can watch whilst
they wait for a turn.

Also, it sounds like people generally frown upon shotgun use. Any
suggestions on how to restrict the weapons usable?

I tried mp_tournament_whitelist but I'm guessing from its name it only
applies in tournament mode... I'd like for players to come and go as they
please so tournament doesn't really work.

Any other tips on running a decent bball server would be welcome too :)

Thanks,
yun

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Re: [hlds_linux] Random server oddities.

[dan]

On 25/01/2013 22:46, Essay Tew Phaun wrote:

Any idea what specifically about CentOS causes this? I'd prefer not to
switch the distro if at all possible. Could Valve possibly comment on this?


It'll presumably be the kernel or the libraries. Not very specific though.

If you have more than one server, I would switch one (I'd make it 
vanilla too), because finding the cause,
assuming there even is one, will be far more effort than the half an 
hour it takes to install debian -

and if it turns out there isn't one you'll have wasted a lot more time.

Plus, if running one Debian machine fixes it you can either switch them 
all or, if you care, find what
specifically causes it yourself by comparing things on the good and bad 
machines.


My bet is, it won't, as the issues sound a bit too specific.

Unless the payload thing is caused by whatever the engine uses to time 
things

being different (which is no doubt a kernel config thing)
I can't see how the game rules would be affected in the way described.

I'd think it far more likely to be a plugin or a game bug.

I've not really played any payload to say anything about those bugs though.

I've certainly never seen through walls. 2fort's spawn door can have a 
glitch
and refuse to open and let people out if there's a cloaked spy knocking 
around occasionally
(at least I've attributed it to the presence of the spy, that could be 
coincidence)


I've never had a problem picking up the intel in hundreds of hours of 
CTF - but perhaps the
rule change to sticky and rocket jumper isn't well known and that 
explains it. Are we talking
intel that is in the enemy base or that has been dropped somewhere along 
the way?


Intel that is run into a spawn takes a tad longer to pick up as you exit.

--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] Random server oddities.

[Essay Tew Phaun]

I am positive that that is not the case and that walls are see through for
everyone. If I hadn't seen it happen to an entire server on multiple
occasions I would have probably thought the same thing.

http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/596977147797869396/DD97BD0D26B24D5EE167F0E7DC7FD471A1F9F767/http://cloud-2.steampowered.com/ugc/594725980421023007/F8361AC3D0AC65E4783A7E681ECBDDAA7FD78A87/


On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 7:29 AM, dan  wrote:

> On 25/01/2013 22:05, Essay Tew Phaun wrote:
>
>> Doorways will turn to flat colors that allow you to see through walls.
>> Everyone experiences this and it's not clientside.
>>
>
> I can't see how this can be anything other than clientside, the
> server doesn't render walls or colours.
>
>
>
>  Randomly you won't be able to pick up the Intel on 2Fort. This may happen
>> elsewhere, this is the only CTF map we run.
>>
>
> Sure this isn't people using the training rocket and sticky jumpers?
>
> --
> Dan
>
>
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Re: [hlds_linux] Random server oddities.

[dan]

On 25/01/2013 22:05, Essay Tew Phaun wrote:

Doorways will turn to flat colors that allow you to see through walls.
Everyone experiences this and it's not clientside.


I can't see how this can be anything other than clientside, the
server doesn't render walls or colours.



Randomly you won't be able to pick up the Intel on 2Fort. This may happen
elsewhere, this is the only CTF map we run.


Sure this isn't people using the training rocket and sticky jumpers?

--
Dan

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Re: [hlds_linux] Tips for TF2 bball server config?

[Erik-jan Riemers]

Visit forums.alliedmods.net (google what you want) it surely has limiter +
weapon restriction plugins (sourcemod)

-Original Message-
From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com
[mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Yun Huang
Yong
Sent: zaterdag 26 januari 2013 6:02
To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated
Linux server mailing list
Subject: [hlds_linux] Tips for TF2 bball server config?

Just setup a TF2 bball server in Sydney, Australia.  Am hoping for some
tips (pointers to plugins perhaps) to config it well.

I'd like to limit the teams to 2v2 or 3v3 and have anyone else who joins
the server automatically be pushed to spectator so people can watch whilst
they wait for a turn.

Also, it sounds like people generally frown upon shotgun use. Any
suggestions on how to restrict the weapons usable?

I tried mp_tournament_whitelist but I'm guessing from its name it only
applies in tournament mode... I'd like for players to come and go as they
please so tournament doesn't really work.

Any other tips on running a decent bball server would be welcome too :)

Thanks,
yun

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