RE: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
Hello,
Game servers which run games that run in a 3D environment (on the
client) generally have one version of the environment that all connected
clients see maintained in memory.
As Alfred has already mentioned, at server level, this is the game level
(or "map") but in its utmost binary format. In order for the server to
run the simulation (i.e. the game level, environment, the players, the
weapons, collision detection, physics... everything that requires "think
time") it must keep a constant track on what happens and where.
So, yes, the server maintains a pure 3D version - if you want to think
that way - of the level in memory (read up on BSP trees if you want to
know how levels are generally stored in memory,
http://www.symbolcraft.com/graphics/bsp/ is a fun toy - requires Java).
As well as this, it also maintains huge lists ("look-up tables") that
correspond to things like players (models, bones, hotspots, linkage,
physical dimensions, properties, and so on), weapons, socket
connections, physics data, and loads of other stuff.
The one thing the server doesn't need are things like textures (it
generally just needs to know about them, so it can tell game clients
things), effects (that's what a graphics renderer is for), and all those
other things that make games look pretty.
To answer the original question, it is very important for the server to
maintain how the world is "rendered", but that's rendered in theory, not
actually drawn with a video renderer. If the server didn't do this, the
server wouldn't have anything to serve!
(This is an extremely generalised summary about how 3D game logic works,
your mileage may vary :)
--
Bart King
http://www.bart666.com -- +44 781 219 5654
-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of David
Syers
Sent: 29 December 2006 18:46
To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com
Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS
Source server
--
[ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] How much of a 3d
version? does it do textures and all of the "eye candy" that are just
pure overhead? does it render hdr??
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Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
On Dec 29, 2006, at 10:46 AM, David Syers wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] How much of a 3d version? does it do textures and all of the "eye candy" that are just pure overhead? does it render hdr?? Alfred Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No, it doesn't do a raw render. It does maintain a 3d version of the world for collision detection between players and the world (and other players). I'm just taking a shot in the dark here, but it probably just holds enough information to ensure that players are inside the legal playing field, which would include nothing but the most basic of structural data. -- Erik Hollensbe [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] How much of a 3d version? does it do textures and all of the "eye candy" that are just pure overhead? does it render hdr?? Alfred Reynolds <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: No, it doesn't do a raw render. It does maintain a 3d version of the world for collision detection between players and the world (and other players). k-mystik wrote: > Does the server really need to care about how the world is rendered? > > I read on a french post it was actually the case... server do render > frames as it was a simple game-client (without displaying them of > course). > That may explain why servers need more and more power when the game > gets > better! > > This needs of course to be confirmed by a Valve technician ;-) > > -- > k-mystik! -- get2play administrator > web: www.get2play.com > irc: #get2play > > > Regime wrote: >> A while back on the cod mailing list it was noticed that cod uses a >> 'weird' way of getting it's processor cycles, taking them from in >> between the ticks of your OS. I am not a programmer (at least not to >> the extent of understanding a thing like this fully), so I do not >> comprehend how or why this is done. However, I do know that the >> values you see for you COD2 server, in things like 'top' are not the >> _real_ amount of resources your server is using. In the past I have >> witnessed this behavior first hand as well. So not only this is a >> reason to say the comparison is not really valid, but also something >> for you to consider when running (a) COD2 server(s). >> >> As for the srcds server using up a lot of resources; I'd say it's the >> same as for the client part to games, isn't it? In a year, today's >> most top-notch system, will be outdated again as well. That's just >> the way it works. Probably with things like HDR and more entities >> and other things for the server to compute being added, the server >> just needs more 'power'.. Don't get me wrong.. I don't like this >> fact either, but it is just the way of the world I suppose. --- >> Regime >> >> Evaldas Zilinskas wrote: >>> Try runing a DODs server, where maps have more corners, houses, HDR >>> t.t... 24slot dod_donner, 66tick can't even run on pentium 3ghz :). >>> (something like css with de_inferno) fps are below 30.. the code >>> needs to be >>> optimised! look >>> at COD2. 24slot server runing COD2(DM) use ~20-30% of same 3ghz >>> pentium. >>> >> >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
No, it doesn't do a raw render. It does maintain a 3d version of the world for collision detection between players and the world (and other players). k-mystik wrote: > Does the server really need to care about how the world is rendered? > > I read on a french post it was actually the case... server do render > frames as it was a simple game-client (without displaying them of > course). > That may explain why servers need more and more power when the game > gets > better! > > This needs of course to be confirmed by a Valve technician ;-) > > -- > k-mystik! -- get2play administrator > web: www.get2play.com > irc: #get2play > > > Regime wrote: >> A while back on the cod mailing list it was noticed that cod uses a >> 'weird' way of getting it's processor cycles, taking them from in >> between the ticks of your OS. I am not a programmer (at least not to >> the extent of understanding a thing like this fully), so I do not >> comprehend how or why this is done. However, I do know that the >> values you see for you COD2 server, in things like 'top' are not the >> _real_ amount of resources your server is using. In the past I have >> witnessed this behavior first hand as well. So not only this is a >> reason to say the comparison is not really valid, but also something >> for you to consider when running (a) COD2 server(s). >> >> As for the srcds server using up a lot of resources; I'd say it's the >> same as for the client part to games, isn't it? In a year, today's >> most top-notch system, will be outdated again as well. That's just >> the way it works. Probably with things like HDR and more entities >> and other things for the server to compute being added, the server >> just needs more 'power'.. Don't get me wrong.. I don't like this >> fact either, but it is just the way of the world I suppose. --- >> Regime >> >> Evaldas Zilinskas wrote: >>> Try runing a DODs server, where maps have more corners, houses, HDR >>> t.t... 24slot dod_donner, 66tick can't even run on pentium 3ghz :). >>> (something like css with de_inferno) fps are below 30.. the code >>> needs to be >>> optimised! look >>> at COD2. 24slot server runing COD2(DM) use ~20-30% of same 3ghz >>> pentium. >>> >> >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list >> archives, please visit: >> http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list > archives, please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
Does the server really need to care about how the world is rendered? I read on a french post it was actually the case... server do render frames as it was a simple game-client (without displaying them of course). That may explain why servers need more and more power when the game gets better! This needs of course to be confirmed by a Valve technician ;-) -- k-mystik! -- get2play administrator web: www.get2play.com irc: #get2play Regime wrote: A while back on the cod mailing list it was noticed that cod uses a 'weird' way of getting it's processor cycles, taking them from in between the ticks of your OS. I am not a programmer (at least not to the extent of understanding a thing like this fully), so I do not comprehend how or why this is done. However, I do know that the values you see for you COD2 server, in things like 'top' are not the _real_ amount of resources your server is using. In the past I have witnessed this behavior first hand as well. So not only this is a reason to say the comparison is not really valid, but also something for you to consider when running (a) COD2 server(s). As for the srcds server using up a lot of resources; I'd say it's the same as for the client part to games, isn't it? In a year, today's most top-notch system, will be outdated again as well. That's just the way it works. Probably with things like HDR and more entities and other things for the server to compute being added, the server just needs more 'power'.. Don't get me wrong.. I don't like this fact either, but it is just the way of the world I suppose. --- Regime Evaldas Zilinskas wrote: Try runing a DODs server, where maps have more corners, houses, HDR t.t... 24slot dod_donner, 66tick can't even run on pentium 3ghz :). (something like css with de_inferno) fps are below 30.. the code needs to be optimised! look at COD2. 24slot server runing COD2(DM) use ~20-30% of same 3ghz pentium. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
End of the day, without us - Valve wouldn't suceed, there would be no servers - therefore no players, so keep us happy and we'll keep your business in retrospect. Evaldas Zilinskas wrote: Does the source code (serverside) have SSE3 support? Maybe the code is out of the limits nowadays? I mean, that you can get yourself a super CPU, but CPU usage will be quite disappointing. And how about multicore / multitreath support from the source? Splitting one process on few treaths should lower the usage 2x? Anyway, growing the CPU usage after every update (like strawberries in the garden) doesn't mean that server providers buy better CPUs. I Wish luck for Valve fighting against server providers :) Pagarbiai, Evaldas Zilinskas, Lemita UAB Tel.: 8~37 312 999, 8~679 26 812 - Original Message - From: "Cc2iscooL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:16 AM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I'm not sure if many of the people on this list exactly understand what they're talking about. While we do not like the fact that the CPU usage of the servers continues to increase, taking down a few servers for 24 hours is not going to ruin anyone's day...not Valve's, not the players, not really anyone besides the people who commonly play on your server(s). Right now, as of 4:12 PM CST (GMT -6) there are *Total Players/Max*: 51,953 / 257,076 (20.21%). These are all public servers with sv_password set to zero. (1) (1) Source - http://www.game-monitor.com/search.php?game=cstrike2&country=&qry_w=3&qry=&ip=&player_w=1&player=&map_w=3&map=&rulename=sv_password&ruleval=0&rulename2=&ruleval2=&user=&showFull=&showEmpty= That is only for Counter Strike: Source. 20% of all slots in the world are being useddo you really think that shutting down a few servers is going to change it so that there are more players than slots? I think not. Again, I'd like to clarify that I am also not very happy about the CPU usage going up, but shutting down a few servers for 24 hours isn't going to do much impact unless you can take down Valve's master server. Maybe you can create another huge storm off the coast of Washington? Personally, my servers will be staying online. On 12/28/06, Rónai György <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Then lets see, how big the project can be. I dont think, that because of 24 hours outage we will loose that much players. And they will be informed too. As of my part, i can inform most of the hungarian servers, and they will join us. Who is with us, with the 24 Hours server shut down next week? Locutus ics írta: Nah dont do that mate, you just lose your own players because they dont care that much and just swap to another server. Minority may care but players are sheeps. They want to play and so on. However, i wrote a previous post to this mailing list after that steam outage and i didnt include the lag spikes into that post. Seems that i should have. This issue will propably be left alone once again with no comment from Valve. We have a problem, we try to report it and all we get is ignored. Many people have this problem so clearly it isnt made up. Lets see how long the community will maintain its current people as im sure that at this rate, it wont grow. -ics Rónai György wrote: How does this sound: Lets speak together, and STOP all of our SRCDS processes for 24 hours. For example, from 04. january 13:00 to 05. january 13:00. (and if they are not doing anything - at least an answer to our performance questions, we will do another shutdown later for 48 hours...) Just to get Valve a feeling, how it is, to loose people. We will inform people about the outage before this date, and let everyone know, why we are doing this. I am sure, that every player will understand it. Locutus ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux[1] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux[2] ===References:=== 1. http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux 2. http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- No virus found in t
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
Does the source code (serverside) have SSE3 support? Maybe the code is out of the limits nowadays? I mean, that you can get yourself a super CPU, but CPU usage will be quite disappointing. And how about multicore / multitreath support from the source? Splitting one process on few treaths should lower the usage 2x? Anyway, growing the CPU usage after every update (like strawberries in the garden) doesn't mean that server providers buy better CPUs. I Wish luck for Valve fighting against server providers :) Pagarbiai, Evaldas Zilinskas, Lemita UAB Tel.: 8~37 312 999, 8~679 26 812 - Original Message - From: "Cc2iscooL" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Friday, December 29, 2006 12:16 AM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I'm not sure if many of the people on this list exactly understand what they're talking about. While we do not like the fact that the CPU usage of the servers continues to increase, taking down a few servers for 24 hours is not going to ruin anyone's day...not Valve's, not the players, not really anyone besides the people who commonly play on your server(s). Right now, as of 4:12 PM CST (GMT -6) there are *Total Players/Max*: 51,953 / 257,076 (20.21%). These are all public servers with sv_password set to zero. (1) (1) Source - http://www.game-monitor.com/search.php?game=cstrike2&country=&qry_w=3&qry=&ip=&player_w=1&player=&map_w=3&map=&rulename=sv_password&ruleval=0&rulename2=&ruleval2=&user=&showFull=&showEmpty= That is only for Counter Strike: Source. 20% of all slots in the world are being useddo you really think that shutting down a few servers is going to change it so that there are more players than slots? I think not. Again, I'd like to clarify that I am also not very happy about the CPU usage going up, but shutting down a few servers for 24 hours isn't going to do much impact unless you can take down Valve's master server. Maybe you can create another huge storm off the coast of Washington? Personally, my servers will be staying online. On 12/28/06, Rónai György <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Then lets see, how big the project can be. I dont think, that because of 24 hours outage we will loose that much players. And they will be informed too. As of my part, i can inform most of the hungarian servers, and they will join us. Who is with us, with the 24 Hours server shut down next week? Locutus ics írta: Nah dont do that mate, you just lose your own players because they dont care that much and just swap to another server. Minority may care but players are sheeps. They want to play and so on. However, i wrote a previous post to this mailing list after that steam outage and i didnt include the lag spikes into that post. Seems that i should have. This issue will propably be left alone once again with no comment from Valve. We have a problem, we try to report it and all we get is ignored. Many people have this problem so clearly it isnt made up. Lets see how long the community will maintain its current people as im sure that at this rate, it wont grow. -ics Rónai György wrote: How does this sound: Lets speak together, and STOP all of our SRCDS processes for 24 hours. For example, from 04. january 13:00 to 05. january 13:00. (and if they are not doing anything - at least an answer to our performance questions, we will do another shutdown later for 48 hours...) Just to get Valve a feeling, how it is, to loose people. We will inform people about the outage before this date, and let everyone know, why we are doing this. I am sure, that every player will understand it. Locutus ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux[1] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux[2] ===References:=== 1. http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux 2. http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/606 - Release Date: 2006.12.28 00:22 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I'm not sure if many of the people on this list exactly understand what they're talking about. While we do not like the fact that the CPU usage of the servers continues to increase, taking down a few servers for 24 hours is not going to ruin anyone's day...not Valve's, not the players, not really anyone besides the people who commonly play on your server(s). Right now, as of 4:12 PM CST (GMT -6) there are *Total Players/Max*: 51,953 / 257,076 (20.21%). These are all public servers with sv_password set to zero. (1) (1) Source - http://www.game-monitor.com/search.php?game=cstrike2&country=&qry_w=3&qry=&ip=&player_w=1&player=&map_w=3&map=&rulename=sv_password&ruleval=0&rulename2=&ruleval2=&user=&showFull=&showEmpty= That is only for Counter Strike: Source. 20% of all slots in the world are being useddo you really think that shutting down a few servers is going to change it so that there are more players than slots? I think not. Again, I'd like to clarify that I am also not very happy about the CPU usage going up, but shutting down a few servers for 24 hours isn't going to do much impact unless you can take down Valve's master server. Maybe you can create another huge storm off the coast of Washington? Personally, my servers will be staying online. On 12/28/06, Rónai György <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [ Converted text/html to text/plain ] > Then lets see, how big the project can be. > I dont think, that because of 24 hours outage we will loose that much > players. > And they will be informed too. > As of my part, i can inform most of the hungarian servers, and they will > join > us. > Who is with us, with the 24 Hours server shut down next week? > Locutus > ics írta: > > Nah dont do that mate, you just lose your own players because they dont > care that much and just swap to another server. Minority may care but > players are sheeps. > They want to play and so on. However, i wrote a previous post to this > mailing list after that steam outage and i didnt include the lag spikes > into that post. Seems that i should have. > This issue will propably be left alone once again with no comment from > Valve. We have a problem, we try to report it and all we get is ignored. > Many people have this problem > so clearly it isnt made up. Lets see how long the community will > maintain its current people as im sure that at this rate, it wont grow. > -ics > Rónai György wrote: > > How does this sound: > Lets speak together, and STOP all of our SRCDS processes for 24 hours. > For example, from 04. january 13:00 to 05. january 13:00. > (and if they are not doing anything - at least an answer to our > performance questions, we will do another shutdown later for 48 hours...) > Just to get Valve a feeling, how it is, to loose people. > We will inform people about the outage before this date, and let > everyone know, why we are doing this. I am sure, that every player will > understand it. > Locutus > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux[1] > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please > visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux[2] > > ===References:=== > 1. http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > 2. http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
[ Converted text/html to text/plain ] Then lets see, how big the project can be. I dont think, that because of 24 hours outage we will loose that much players. And they will be informed too. As of my part, i can inform most of the hungarian servers, and they will join us. Who is with us, with the 24 Hours server shut down next week? Locutus ics írta: Nah dont do that mate, you just lose your own players because they dont care that much and just swap to another server. Minority may care but players are sheeps. They want to play and so on. However, i wrote a previous post to this mailing list after that steam outage and i didnt include the lag spikes into that post. Seems that i should have. This issue will propably be left alone once again with no comment from Valve. We have a problem, we try to report it and all we get is ignored. Many people have this problem so clearly it isnt made up. Lets see how long the community will maintain its current people as im sure that at this rate, it wont grow. -ics Rónai György wrote: How does this sound: Lets speak together, and STOP all of our SRCDS processes for 24 hours. For example, from 04. january 13:00 to 05. january 13:00. (and if they are not doing anything - at least an answer to our performance questions, we will do another shutdown later for 48 hours...) Just to get Valve a feeling, how it is, to loose people. We will inform people about the outage before this date, and let everyone know, why we are doing this. I am sure, that every player will understand it. Locutus ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux[1] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux[2] ===References:=== 1. http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux 2. http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
Nah dont do that mate, you just lose your own players because they dont care that much and just swap to another server. Minority may care but players are sheeps. They want to play and so on. However, i wrote a previous post to this mailing list after that steam outage and i didnt include the lag spikes into that post. Seems that i should have. This issue will propably be left alone once again with no comment from Valve. We have a problem, we try to report it and all we get is ignored. Many people have this problem so clearly it isnt made up. Lets see how long the community will maintain its current people as im sure that at this rate, it wont grow. -ics Rónai György wrote: How does this sound: Lets speak together, and STOP all of our SRCDS processes for 24 hours. For example, from 04. january 13:00 to 05. january 13:00. (and if they are not doing anything - at least an answer to our performance questions, we will do another shutdown later for 48 hours...) Just to get Valve a feeling, how it is, to loose people. We will inform people about the outage before this date, and let everyone know, why we are doing this. I am sure, that every player will understand it. Locutus ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
A while back on the cod mailing list it was noticed that cod uses a 'weird' way of getting it's processor cycles, taking them from in between the ticks of your OS. I am not a programmer (at least not to the extent of understanding a thing like this fully), so I do not comprehend how or why this is done. However, I do know that the values you see for you COD2 server, in things like 'top' are not the _real_ amount of resources your server is using. In the past I have witnessed this behavior first hand as well. So not only this is a reason to say the comparison is not really valid, but also something for you to consider when running (a) COD2 server(s). As for the srcds server using up a lot of resources; I'd say it's the same as for the client part to games, isn't it? In a year, today's most top-notch system, will be outdated again as well. That's just the way it works. Probably with things like HDR and more entities and other things for the server to compute being added, the server just needs more 'power'.. Don't get me wrong.. I don't like this fact either, but it is just the way of the world I suppose. --- Regime Evaldas Zilinskas wrote: Try runing a DODs server, where maps have more corners, houses, HDR t.t... 24slot dod_donner, 66tick can't even run on pentium 3ghz :). (something like css with de_inferno) fps are below 30.. the code needs to be optimised! look at COD2. 24slot server runing COD2(DM) use ~20-30% of same 3ghz pentium. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
[ Converted text/html to text/plain ] I know that here are GSP-s too, but its not you, who must do this. >From your viewpoint its the customer, who should terminate (or ask you to terminate it for him) the process. Or, simply password their servers so that no one can join in, if you can not terminate them. Thats probably the most simple way. Locutus DEPRE Gaetan írta: LOL. Some of us are GSP. Sorry but for my customers that pay, I'll never do that !... (in fact legally I can't) I don't think this way is the good one. Valve will probably have an real answer to this problem (& I hope a solution...) G.DEPRE www.ngservers.com[1] -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Rónai György Envoyé : jeudi 28 décembre 2006 20:15 Ŕ : [EMAIL PROTECTED] Objet : Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server How does this sound: Lets speak together, and STOP all of our SRCDS processes for 24 hours. For example, from 04. january 13:00 to 05. january 13:00. (and if they are not doing anything - at least an answer to our performance questions, we will do another shutdown later for 48 hours...) Just to get Valve a feeling, how it is, to loose people. We will inform people about the outage before this date, and let everyone know, why we are doing this. I am sure, that every player will understand it. Locutus ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux[5] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux[6] ===References:=== 1. http://www.ngservers.com 2. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 3. mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] 4. mailto:hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com 5. http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux 6. http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
i agree with that. and also if the players get why there is a shut down they may actually bring some more weight to the argument. In saying that tho there will inevitably be a few players that don't care and will complain bitterly but in fairness those are the same people that should be banned from using pc's due to a distinct lack of intelligence. Rónai György wrote: > How does this sound: > > Lets speak together, and STOP all of our SRCDS processes for 24 hours. > > For example, from 04. january 13:00 to 05. january 13:00. > > (and if they are not doing anything - at least an answer to our > performance questions, we will do another shutdown later for 48 hours...) > > Just to get Valve a feeling, how it is, to loose people. > > We will inform people about the outage before this date, and let > everyone know, why we are doing this. I am sure, that every player will > understand it. > > Locutus > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
LOL. Some of us are GSP. Sorry but for my customers that pay, I'll never do that !... (in fact legally I can't) I don't think this way is the good one. Valve will probably have an real answer to this problem (& I hope a solution...) G.DEPRE www.ngservers.com -Message d'origine- De : [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] De la part de Rónai György Envoyé : jeudi 28 décembre 2006 20:15 À : hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Objet : Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server How does this sound: Lets speak together, and STOP all of our SRCDS processes for 24 hours. For example, from 04. january 13:00 to 05. january 13:00. (and if they are not doing anything - at least an answer to our performance questions, we will do another shutdown later for 48 hours...) Just to get Valve a feeling, how it is, to loose people. We will inform people about the outage before this date, and let everyone know, why we are doing this. I am sure, that every player will understand it. Locutus ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
How does this sound: Lets speak together, and STOP all of our SRCDS processes for 24 hours. For example, from 04. january 13:00 to 05. january 13:00. (and if they are not doing anything - at least an answer to our performance questions, we will do another shutdown later for 48 hours...) Just to get Valve a feeling, how it is, to loose people. We will inform people about the outage before this date, and let everyone know, why we are doing this. I am sure, that every player will understand it. Locutus ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
Try runing a DODs server, where maps have more corners, houses, HDR t.t... 24slot dod_donner, 66tick can't even run on pentium 3ghz :). (something like css with de_inferno) fps are below 30.. the code needs to be optimised! look at COD2. 24slot server runing COD2(DM) use ~20-30% of same 3ghz pentium. - Original Message - From: "Dennis Overskov" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, December 28, 2006 7:29 PM Subject: SV: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server 2 of them is 16 slot, and 2 is 12 Dennis -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Whisper Sendt: 28. december 2006 16:32 Til: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Emne: Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] How many players per SRCDS though? On 12/29/06, Dennis Overskov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hmmm are you sure everthing is ok then. I run 4 css (3 reg game and 1 gungame) tick 66 When they all are bussy, they only use 50% cpu and I have 2GB ram in. It is a Athlon dual cpu. +4200 Dennis -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Tristan Morris Sendt: 28. december 2006 10:33 Til: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Emne: RE: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server Yes this is quite a problem. We were testing out some configurations for SRCDS, and at the default tick rates and Kernel Hz, an empty server chews between 1-2% of a 3Ghz CPU. With 10 people in a 66 tick rate server, the server load increases to around 40-50%. Some optimisation is required fairly quickly! We are looking into supporting other games prior to SRCDS due to this high CPU usage. It would be great to hear some comments back from Valve on this issue! Cheers, Tristan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Thursday, 28 December 2006 3:02 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is a problem on Windows SRCDS as well. We used to be able to run 40 player 100 tickrate servers, that is just a long lost dream now. On 12/28/06, Arne Guski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This is a serious issue, i agree with all of the above posters. > SRCDS is such a bunch of crap-code when it comes to linux servers, we > are serious considering dropping gameswitch to source because it just > burns cpu for no reason. > When you look at q3 or other ID games you can get an idear what a proper > performing dedicated server has to look like. > > Valve ... Alfred you have to look into the source server code and start > optimizations for linux ... else you will end up loosing hosters and > gamers. > It goes agains every sense of programming and is pure nonsense to > increase cpu load with every update instead of decreasing it. > If you expect us to host servers you are planning on making money on > (ingame ads) at a close to zero cost-effective basis ... you got another > thing coming. > > ... And it wont help to just ignore every1 that posted on this thread in > the good old valve way you _will_ see. > > -- > Arne Guski > www.server-sales.de > Forum: http://forum.server-sales.de > Qnet: #server-sales.de > Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ICQ: 48395948 > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.28/606 - Release Date: 2006.12.28 00:22 ___
SV: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
2 of them is 16 slot, and 2 is 12 Dennis -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Whisper Sendt: 28. december 2006 16:32 Til: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Emne: Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] How many players per SRCDS though? On 12/29/06, Dennis Overskov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hmmm are you sure everthing is ok then. > > I run 4 css (3 reg game and 1 gungame) tick 66 > When they all are bussy, they only use 50% cpu and I have 2GB ram in. > It is a Athlon dual cpu. +4200 > > Dennis > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Tristan > Morris > Sendt: 28. december 2006 10:33 > Til: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > Emne: RE: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source > server > > Yes this is quite a problem. > > We were testing out some configurations for SRCDS, and at the default tick > rates and Kernel Hz, an empty server chews between 1-2% of a 3Ghz CPU. > With > 10 people in a 66 tick rate server, the server load increases to around > 40-50%. > > Some optimisation is required fairly quickly! We are looking into > supporting > other games prior to SRCDS due to this high CPU usage. > > It would be great to hear some comments back from Valve on this issue! > > > Cheers, > > > > Tristan > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper > Sent: Thursday, 28 December 2006 3:02 PM > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS > Source server > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is a problem on Windows SRCDS as > well. > > We used to be able to run 40 player 100 tickrate servers, that is just a > long lost dream now. > > On 12/28/06, Arne Guski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > This is a serious issue, i agree with all of the above posters. > > SRCDS is such a bunch of crap-code when it comes to linux servers, we > > are serious considering dropping gameswitch to source because it just > > burns cpu for no reason. > > When you look at q3 or other ID games you can get an idear what a proper > > performing dedicated server has to look like. > > > > Valve ... Alfred you have to look into the source server code and start > > optimizations for linux ... else you will end up loosing hosters and > > gamers. > > It goes agains every sense of programming and is pure nonsense to > > increase cpu load with every update instead of decreasing it. > > If you expect us to host servers you are planning on making money on > > (ingame ads) at a close to zero cost-effective basis ... you got another > > thing coming. > > > > ... And it wont help to just ignore every1 that posted on this thread in > > the good old valve way you _will_ see. > > > > -- > > Arne Guski > > www.server-sales.de > > Forum: http://forum.server-sales.de > > Qnet: #server-sales.de > > Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ICQ: 48395948 > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] How many players per SRCDS though? On 12/29/06, Dennis Overskov <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hmmm are you sure everthing is ok then. > > I run 4 css (3 reg game and 1 gungame) tick 66 > When they all are bussy, they only use 50% cpu and I have 2GB ram in. > It is a Athlon dual cpu. +4200 > > Dennis > > -Oprindelig meddelelse- > Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Tristan > Morris > Sendt: 28. december 2006 10:33 > Til: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > Emne: RE: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source > server > > Yes this is quite a problem. > > We were testing out some configurations for SRCDS, and at the default tick > rates and Kernel Hz, an empty server chews between 1-2% of a 3Ghz CPU. > With > 10 people in a 66 tick rate server, the server load increases to around > 40-50%. > > Some optimisation is required fairly quickly! We are looking into > supporting > other games prior to SRCDS due to this high CPU usage. > > It would be great to hear some comments back from Valve on this issue! > > > Cheers, > > > > Tristan > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper > Sent: Thursday, 28 December 2006 3:02 PM > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS > Source server > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is a problem on Windows SRCDS as > well. > > We used to be able to run 40 player 100 tickrate servers, that is just a > long lost dream now. > > On 12/28/06, Arne Guski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > This is a serious issue, i agree with all of the above posters. > > SRCDS is such a bunch of crap-code when it comes to linux servers, we > > are serious considering dropping gameswitch to source because it just > > burns cpu for no reason. > > When you look at q3 or other ID games you can get an idear what a proper > > performing dedicated server has to look like. > > > > Valve ... Alfred you have to look into the source server code and start > > optimizations for linux ... else you will end up loosing hosters and > > gamers. > > It goes agains every sense of programming and is pure nonsense to > > increase cpu load with every update instead of decreasing it. > > If you expect us to host servers you are planning on making money on > > (ingame ads) at a close to zero cost-effective basis ... you got another > > thing coming. > > > > ... And it wont help to just ignore every1 that posted on this thread in > > the good old valve way you _will_ see. > > > > -- > > Arne Guski > > www.server-sales.de > > Forum: http://forum.server-sales.de > > Qnet: #server-sales.de > > Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > ICQ: 48395948 > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
SV: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
Hmmm are you sure everthing is ok then. I run 4 css (3 reg game and 1 gungame) tick 66 When they all are bussy, they only use 50% cpu and I have 2GB ram in. It is a Athlon dual cpu. +4200 Dennis -Oprindelig meddelelse- Fra: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] På vegne af Tristan Morris Sendt: 28. december 2006 10:33 Til: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Emne: RE: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server Yes this is quite a problem. We were testing out some configurations for SRCDS, and at the default tick rates and Kernel Hz, an empty server chews between 1-2% of a 3Ghz CPU. With 10 people in a 66 tick rate server, the server load increases to around 40-50%. Some optimisation is required fairly quickly! We are looking into supporting other games prior to SRCDS due to this high CPU usage. It would be great to hear some comments back from Valve on this issue! Cheers, Tristan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Thursday, 28 December 2006 3:02 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is a problem on Windows SRCDS as well. We used to be able to run 40 player 100 tickrate servers, that is just a long lost dream now. On 12/28/06, Arne Guski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This is a serious issue, i agree with all of the above posters. > SRCDS is such a bunch of crap-code when it comes to linux servers, we > are serious considering dropping gameswitch to source because it just > burns cpu for no reason. > When you look at q3 or other ID games you can get an idear what a proper > performing dedicated server has to look like. > > Valve ... Alfred you have to look into the source server code and start > optimizations for linux ... else you will end up loosing hosters and > gamers. > It goes agains every sense of programming and is pure nonsense to > increase cpu load with every update instead of decreasing it. > If you expect us to host servers you are planning on making money on > (ingame ads) at a close to zero cost-effective basis ... you got another > thing coming. > > ... And it wont help to just ignore every1 that posted on this thread in > the good old valve way you _will_ see. > > -- > Arne Guski > www.server-sales.de > Forum: http://forum.server-sales.de > Qnet: #server-sales.de > Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ICQ: 48395948 > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
I concur, there was an optimization for srcds but that was almost over 1,5 years ago. After that there has been many changes which eat more and more cpu. The most interesting problem there seem to be is the sudden cpu spikes. For example on 2,4GHz @ 33 tickrate on 24 players, CPU usage stays around 40-60% but suddenly it may spike up to 100%. These spikes occur on every server i run. Not as rapid as this one but if average is 60%-70%, it spikes up to 100% for no reason for a second and everyone will notice it. Even if the server is little over half full, spikes still occur. -ics Tristan Morris kirjoitti: Yes this is quite a problem. We were testing out some configurations for SRCDS, and at the default tick rates and Kernel Hz, an empty server chews between 1-2% of a 3Ghz CPU. With 10 people in a 66 tick rate server, the server load increases to around 40-50%. Some optimisation is required fairly quickly! We are looking into supporting other games prior to SRCDS due to this high CPU usage. It would be great to hear some comments back from Valve on this issue! Cheers, Tristan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Thursday, 28 December 2006 3:02 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is a problem on Windows SRCDS as well. We used to be able to run 40 player 100 tickrate servers, that is just a long lost dream now. On 12/28/06, Arne Guski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: This is a serious issue, i agree with all of the above posters. SRCDS is such a bunch of crap-code when it comes to linux servers, we are serious considering dropping gameswitch to source because it just burns cpu for no reason. When you look at q3 or other ID games you can get an idear what a proper performing dedicated server has to look like. Valve ... Alfred you have to look into the source server code and start optimizations for linux ... else you will end up loosing hosters and gamers. It goes agains every sense of programming and is pure nonsense to increase cpu load with every update instead of decreasing it. If you expect us to host servers you are planning on making money on (ingame ads) at a close to zero cost-effective basis ... you got another thing coming. ... And it wont help to just ignore every1 that posted on this thread in the good old valve way you _will_ see. -- Arne Guski www.server-sales.de Forum: http://forum.server-sales.de Qnet: #server-sales.de Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 48395948 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
Yes this is quite a problem. We were testing out some configurations for SRCDS, and at the default tick rates and Kernel Hz, an empty server chews between 1-2% of a 3Ghz CPU. With 10 people in a 66 tick rate server, the server load increases to around 40-50%. Some optimisation is required fairly quickly! We are looking into supporting other games prior to SRCDS due to this high CPU usage. It would be great to hear some comments back from Valve on this issue! Cheers, Tristan -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Whisper Sent: Thursday, 28 December 2006 3:02 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is a problem on Windows SRCDS as well. We used to be able to run 40 player 100 tickrate servers, that is just a long lost dream now. On 12/28/06, Arne Guski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This is a serious issue, i agree with all of the above posters. > SRCDS is such a bunch of crap-code when it comes to linux servers, we > are serious considering dropping gameswitch to source because it just > burns cpu for no reason. > When you look at q3 or other ID games you can get an idear what a proper > performing dedicated server has to look like. > > Valve ... Alfred you have to look into the source server code and start > optimizations for linux ... else you will end up loosing hosters and > gamers. > It goes agains every sense of programming and is pure nonsense to > increase cpu load with every update instead of decreasing it. > If you expect us to host servers you are planning on making money on > (ingame ads) at a close to zero cost-effective basis ... you got another > thing coming. > > ... And it wont help to just ignore every1 that posted on this thread in > the good old valve way you _will_ see. > > -- > Arne Guski > www.server-sales.de > Forum: http://forum.server-sales.de > Qnet: #server-sales.de > Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ICQ: 48395948 > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Sorry to burst your bubble, but this is a problem on Windows SRCDS as well. We used to be able to run 40 player 100 tickrate servers, that is just a long lost dream now. On 12/28/06, Arne Guski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > This is a serious issue, i agree with all of the above posters. > SRCDS is such a bunch of crap-code when it comes to linux servers, we > are serious considering dropping gameswitch to source because it just > burns cpu for no reason. > When you look at q3 or other ID games you can get an idear what a proper > performing dedicated server has to look like. > > Valve ... Alfred you have to look into the source server code and start > optimizations for linux ... else you will end up loosing hosters and > gamers. > It goes agains every sense of programming and is pure nonsense to > increase cpu load with every update instead of decreasing it. > If you expect us to host servers you are planning on making money on > (ingame ads) at a close to zero cost-effective basis ... you got another > thing coming. > > ... And it wont help to just ignore every1 that posted on this thread in > the good old valve way you _will_ see. > > -- > Arne Guski > www.server-sales.de > Forum: http://forum.server-sales.de > Qnet: #server-sales.de > Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ICQ: 48395948 > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Where have they been confined? On 12/27/06, Arne Guski <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > else you will end up loosing hosters and gamers -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
At 05:52 PM 12/27/2006, Arne Guski wrote: This is a serious issue, i agree with all of the above posters. SRCDS is such a bunch of crap-code when it comes to linux servers, we are serious considering dropping gameswitch to source because it just burns cpu for no reason. When you look at q3 or other ID games you can get an idear what a proper performing dedicated server has to look like. Valve ... Alfred you have to look into the source server code and start optimizations for linux ... else you will end up loosing hosters and gamers. It goes agains every sense of programming and is pure nonsense to increase cpu load with every update instead of decreasing it. If you expect us to host servers you are planning on making money on (ingame ads) at a close to zero cost-effective basis ... you got another thing coming. ... And it wont help to just ignore every1 that posted on this thread in the good old valve way you _will_ see. sv_preload leaks memory (1.5G in 2 hours w/ 12 people playing) Of course, high tickrate/hz burns cpu :) G. Stanley Engineering (AS36352) Velocity Servers, INC [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://leaf.dragonflybsd.org/~gary ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
srcds isn't the ads serving version..hlds is..:( Arne Guski wrote: This is a serious issue, i agree with all of the above posters. SRCDS is such a bunch of crap-code when it comes to linux servers, we are serious considering dropping gameswitch to source because it just burns cpu for no reason. When you look at q3 or other ID games you can get an idear what a proper performing dedicated server has to look like. Valve ... Alfred you have to look into the source server code and start optimizations for linux ... else you will end up loosing hosters and gamers. It goes agains every sense of programming and is pure nonsense to increase cpu load with every update instead of decreasing it. If you expect us to host servers you are planning on making money on (ingame ads) at a close to zero cost-effective basis ... you got another thing coming. ... And it wont help to just ignore every1 that posted on this thread in the good old valve way you _will_ see. -- Arne Guski www.server-sales.de Forum: http://forum.server-sales.de Qnet: #server-sales.de Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 48395948 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- My "Foundation" verse: Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. -- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape" CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician) Linux user #322099 Machines: 206822 256638 276825 http://counter.li.org/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
I have already dropped my source server due to not being able to properly protect it against hackers. Arne Guski wrote: This is a serious issue, i agree with all of the above posters. SRCDS is such a bunch of crap-code when it comes to linux servers, we are serious considering dropping gameswitch to source because it just burns cpu for no reason. When you look at q3 or other ID games you can get an idear what a proper performing dedicated server has to look like. Valve ... Alfred you have to look into the source server code and start optimizations for linux ... else you will end up loosing hosters and gamers. It goes agains every sense of programming and is pure nonsense to increase cpu load with every update instead of decreasing it. If you expect us to host servers you are planning on making money on (ingame ads) at a close to zero cost-effective basis ... you got another thing coming. ... And it wont help to just ignore every1 that posted on this thread in the good old valve way you _will_ see. -- Arne Guski www.server-sales.de Forum: http://forum.server-sales.de Qnet: #server-sales.de Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 48395948 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- My "Foundation" verse: Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. -- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape" CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician) Linux user #322099 Machines: 206822 256638 276825 http://counter.li.org/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
This is a serious issue, i agree with all of the above posters. SRCDS is such a bunch of crap-code when it comes to linux servers, we are serious considering dropping gameswitch to source because it just burns cpu for no reason. When you look at q3 or other ID games you can get an idear what a proper performing dedicated server has to look like. Valve ... Alfred you have to look into the source server code and start optimizations for linux ... else you will end up loosing hosters and gamers. It goes agains every sense of programming and is pure nonsense to increase cpu load with every update instead of decreasing it. If you expect us to host servers you are planning on making money on (ingame ads) at a close to zero cost-effective basis ... you got another thing coming. ... And it wont help to just ignore every1 that posted on this thread in the good old valve way you _will_ see. -- Arne Guski www.server-sales.de Forum: http://forum.server-sales.de Qnet: #server-sales.de Mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ICQ: 48395948 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Actually, I meant restarting the process, not the box. Sorry for the confusion :) On 12/7/06, William Warren <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Cc2iscooL wrote: > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > Windows isn't too terrible with memory unless you never reboot the > servers > > at all. (Actually, same thing would go for Linux.) > > > > You don't have to ever reboot Linux unless a driver has a memory leak or > it causes the kernel to act weird. The only time i have to reboot my CS > server(1 14 slot hlds and one 14 slot srcds) is for kernel > updates...otherwise the machine never slows down. Some of my hlds > plugins have memory leaks but that is solved by restarting the > process..not the whole box. > > -- > My "Foundation" verse: > Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and > every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt > condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their > righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. > > -- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape" > CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician) > > Linux user #322099 > Machines: > 206822 > 256638 > 276825 > http://counter.li.org/ > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
After the lots of updates Source Dedicated server gone crazy at all :). Clean Linux, 2GB of ram (ECC) and 3GHz Pentium CPU get a 90% CPU usage with 20players on DODS runing 66tiks. Nowdays you have to buy a Core2 system (Xeon 51xx / Core2 2.4Ghz model) or sotmething like AMD Opteron :). Even a HLDS server runing CS and de_inferno wiith 32 players can get your Pentium mad. I see, that now servers need real server CPU's. And... I dont see any difference in what OS you chose . The main thing is server's calculations. Your, Evaldas Zilinskas, Lemita JSC Call.: 8~37 312 999, 8~679 26 812 - Original Message - From: "William Warren" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Thursday, December 07, 2006 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server Cc2iscooL wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Windows isn't too terrible with memory unless you never reboot the servers at all. (Actually, same thing would go for Linux.) You don't have to ever reboot Linux unless a driver has a memory leak or it causes the kernel to act weird. The only time i have to reboot my CS server(1 14 slot hlds and one 14 slot srcds) is for kernel updates...otherwise the machine never slows down. Some of my hlds plugins have memory leaks but that is solved by restarting the process..not the whole box. -- My "Foundation" verse: Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. -- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape" CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician) Linux user #322099 Machines: 206822 256638 276825 http://counter.li.org/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.432 / Virus Database: 268.15.14/578 - Release Date: 2006.12.07 01:27 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
Cc2iscooL wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Windows isn't too terrible with memory unless you never reboot the servers at all. (Actually, same thing would go for Linux.) You don't have to ever reboot Linux unless a driver has a memory leak or it causes the kernel to act weird. The only time i have to reboot my CS server(1 14 slot hlds and one 14 slot srcds) is for kernel updates...otherwise the machine never slows down. Some of my hlds plugins have memory leaks but that is solved by restarting the process..not the whole box. -- My "Foundation" verse: Isa 54:17 No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD. -- carpe ductum -- "Grab the tape" CDTT (Certified Duct Tape Technician) Linux user #322099 Machines: 206822 256638 276825 http://counter.li.org/ ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Windows isn't too terrible with memory unless you never reboot the servers at all. (Actually, same thing would go for Linux.) The only thing I don't like about Windows is the fact that you have to defrag...but to be honest I'd be willing to buy a few Windows licenses if I could put double the stuff on it. The only problem is trying to get the timer up...unfortunately it doesn't go past a certain point...and I'm pretty sure you won't ever see a Windows 1000fps server like you do with Linux (at least not stable 1000fps.) I am really sick, though, of being able to run any other games and get quite a few slots, but as soon as you hit the source engine it goes downhill. The box gets overloaded by one 24 slot server at even 66 tick. Try running two servers over 50% CPU utilization (total, not divided by processor) and the FPS will sharply drop. If you try to renice the services they don't like that, and eventually will hit 99% and just lock up completely. I heard a long time ago that you can instead renice the SSH service to -20 and then the programs will take a nice of -20, but who wants to login and do that every single time? Most of us just have game panels or some sort of auto start/stop script so we don't have to bother with it. Maybe Alfred can comment on some of these things as he's the most active Valve representative I've seen on the mailing list. Is there any chance that you guys are going to try to make the Linux binary well...better? It almost makes me cringe to say this, but if not, I'll probably be moving all my servers to Windows. (God I think I need to go bash my head against the wall now.) :D On 12/7/06, David Syers <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > I have to agree entirely, it is about time that the linux build was looked > into. > > I mean twice now they have released a linux build that just would not run > - do they even test the linux side? If so they would see how much worse it > performs over windows, which is bad when you think how bad windows is with > memory and all the GUI taking up memory as well. > > Richard Fennell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > There has been an increasing utilization difference between SRCDS > Windows and SRCDS Linux. I think the reason is due to Valve using the MS > Visual C++ to code the engine (but i'm not sure). Personally i think > this should be one of Valve's top issues because currently it is > seriously effecting the amount of servers being run and the price of the > servers. Providers will have to continually put prices up as the SRCDS > Linux performance slides. This needs to be addressed ASAP as the online > community is suffering. > > As an example, I moved a customers servers from a Windows installation > to a Linux installation, the hardware stayed the same. > Windows the customer was able to run 1 x 40 man server and 1 x 100 tick > 12 man server with 1 slot SrcTV. > Linux the customer struggled to run 1 x 32 man server (standard Fedora > 4/5 with 1000hz kernel). > > The CPU is a AMD 3700 and has 1gig of DDR Memory. > > An AMD64 3500 will now not run 2 x 100 tick servers on Linux. Not being > able to run 2 match servers on a 3500 is a little bit wrong surely? > > There are pro's and con's for running on each platform with many > hoster's preferring Linux as their core OS. Windows 2003 server is too > expensive and to host services on windows XP is illegal. We run console > only stripped down versions of Fedora and see performance gains in all > other games over the windows platform. > > Valve can you let us know why the performance is so different on the > different platforms and is there any chance of it being looked into? > I for one would be very happy to help beta test if required. > > Thanks > > Richy > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I have to agree entirely, it is about time that the linux build was looked into. I mean twice now they have released a linux build that just would not run - do they even test the linux side? If so they would see how much worse it performs over windows, which is bad when you think how bad windows is with memory and all the GUI taking up memory as well. Richard Fennell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: There has been an increasing utilization difference between SRCDS Windows and SRCDS Linux. I think the reason is due to Valve using the MS Visual C++ to code the engine (but i'm not sure). Personally i think this should be one of Valve's top issues because currently it is seriously effecting the amount of servers being run and the price of the servers. Providers will have to continually put prices up as the SRCDS Linux performance slides. This needs to be addressed ASAP as the online community is suffering. As an example, I moved a customers servers from a Windows installation to a Linux installation, the hardware stayed the same. Windows the customer was able to run 1 x 40 man server and 1 x 100 tick 12 man server with 1 slot SrcTV. Linux the customer struggled to run 1 x 32 man server (standard Fedora 4/5 with 1000hz kernel). The CPU is a AMD 3700 and has 1gig of DDR Memory. An AMD64 3500 will now not run 2 x 100 tick servers on Linux. Not being able to run 2 match servers on a 3500 is a little bit wrong surely? There are pro's and con's for running on each platform with many hoster's preferring Linux as their core OS. Windows 2003 server is too expensive and to host services on windows XP is illegal. We run console only stripped down versions of Fedora and see performance gains in all other games over the windows platform. Valve can you let us know why the performance is so different on the different platforms and is there any chance of it being looked into? I for one would be very happy to help beta test if required. Thanks Richy ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] [Question to Valve] High system load with CS Source server
Back in the CS Betas, I could run a 16 player server on a AMD k6. Try running 1.6 on that now. It's nothing new, it royally sucks but unfortunately that's how the cookie crumbles for a variety of reasons. Some of them you can point at valve for, but not all of them. -- Erik Hollensbe [EMAIL PROTECTED] There has been an increasing utilization difference between SRCDS Windows and SRCDS Linux. I think the reason is due to Valve using the MS Visual C++ to code the engine (but i'm not sure). Personally i think this should be one of Valve's top issues because currently it is seriously effecting the amount of servers being run and the price of the servers. Providers will have to continually put prices up as the SRCDS Linux performance slides. This needs to be addressed ASAP as the online community is suffering. As an example, I moved a customers servers from a Windows installation to a Linux installation, the hardware stayed the same. Windows the customer was able to run 1 x 40 man server and 1 x 100 tick 12 man server with 1 slot SrcTV. Linux the customer struggled to run 1 x 32 man server (standard Fedora 4/5 with 1000hz kernel). The CPU is a AMD 3700 and has 1gig of DDR Memory. An AMD64 3500 will now not run 2 x 100 tick servers on Linux. Not being able to run 2 match servers on a 3500 is a little bit wrong surely? There are pro's and con's for running on each platform with many hoster's preferring Linux as their core OS. Windows 2003 server is too expensive and to host services on windows XP is illegal. We run console only stripped down versions of Fedora and see performance gains in all other games over the windows platform. Valve can you let us know why the performance is so different on the different platforms and is there any chance of it being looked into? I for one would be very happy to help beta test if required. Thanks Richy ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
