Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?
On 27/01/2013 09:29, Claudio Beretta wrote: It appears that if you don't need or do something then you assume everyone else must doing the same, and when given reasons why one would appreciate getting an update announcement you still don't acknowledge that, so I've got this bad feeling I'm wasting our time here. Not things in general, no. That's absurd logic. We're talking specifically about one thing, and for that thing only, yes, it's not a good solution to any of the problems. As this very thread helps prove. Again, not every server admin has 24/7 access to a PC with TF2 to check updates Again, it's not interesting to talk about hypotheticals when you have a specific person with a specific problem. In this case, however he knew did know it. He knew clients were being updated and said as much. But, you don't need to be Einstein here to read my post that said Client updates are posted to the TF2 wiki to see that you don't need a TF2 client to see if there as been a client update. And as I said, if you don't have access to a server, you shouldn't really care less if the server has been updated or not. But if you do have access to a server, then you know if there's an update or not. Luckily, running a server does not require much nous. so getting timely update notifications on the mailing list is useful. That's exactly what we get though. Think about that. A lot. Now look at this thread again in light of the fact we currently get notifications about updates. Not only when they are released but a message before they are too. My list isn't hypothetical: It was. -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?
On 27/01/2013 13:43, Rudy Bleeker wrote: I feel this discussion is getting a little out of hand over nothing. Since there was no update, the thread was inevitably about nothing :) -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?
It appears that if you don't need or do something then you assume everyone else must doing the same, and when given reasons why one would appreciate getting an update announcement you still don't acknowledge that, so I've got this bad feeling I'm wasting our time here. Again, not every server admin has 24/7 access to a PC with TF2 to check updates, so getting timely update notifications on the mailing list is useful. My list isn't hypothetical: anyone that has been hosting tf2 servers for a while and cares about his community knows those and other issues happened regularly. And there are other ways to know an update has been released, such as a text/skype message on your phone (not hypothetical, happened to me for real). And yes, valve have been posting optional (client) updates to this list. On 26/01/2013 18:51, Claudio Beretta wrote: You can't really blame him for asking this: -no announcement available at release -client updates almost always make the server download the updated files, even if it's optional for them -tf2 history of forgetting to update steam.inf / master servers not sending out the update notification -tf2 history of mandatory updates being shipped as optional, and vice versa -tf2 history of ghost updates When no announcement is made, the only way to reliably figure out if an update is required for servers is having a client update, trying to connect to an outdated server. Not everyone has a PC with tf2 always available. I wasn't blaming him for anything. Just pointing out other ways to see what the client update was in the 45 minutes he must have sat nervously sweating about if there was an update or not. If he observed clients updating and connecting to his server then what I said applied - and if he didn't observe clients updating or servers updating because of the stuff in your hypothetical list then I can't imagine anyone would spontaneously decide to fret about whether there's an update or not. The truth, if you like, is the update process itself. If your server doesn't update or tell you there is an update, then there is no update. All the fluff about ghost updates and so on is a red herring. If your client updates, then it updates - whether the update is real or not is moot - your client is still updating isn't it? So, asking here is there an update makes little sense if you have a server nor if you don't have one. In the former case you can see for yourself if there is one and in the latter case it shouldn't really matter. I've never been sure why they post the updates here, because it has served little useful purpose at all (It's main feature seems to be to enable whoever's turn it is this week to reply to Eric's post moaning about whatever they don't currently like and to point out why that feature or bug will mean the end of TF2 as we know it) or to ask the same question about counterstrike that's asked every time. Now you want Eric to post when there aren't updates too? Because if there's no post saying there is an update you don't think There isn't an update you ask anyway just in case there is one. Sheesh. So yeah I get it, it's like when you get on a train, you know where you want to go, you know where the train is going from all the evidence, but you still start sweating and have to ask someone Is this the train to Greater Frogsbottom? You don't trust any of the numerous things telling you there is no update. In that case you'll just have to sit and sweat and see where the train goes. Or it's like the timestamp some log programs put in syslog to stop admins who decide no error messages can't mean nothing's broken, Eric needs to post once an hour to say No update so we know he's not merely forgotten to post. -- Dan. __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linuxhttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?
I feel this discussion is getting a little out of hand over nothing. What I merely meant in my original reply to wicketplayer494 his question was for people to just have a little patience with the release of stuff like update notes and such, especially when the update is rolled out on a saturday. These days patience is a virtue lost on most people, unfortunately. On Sun, Jan 27, 2013 at 10:29 AM, Claudio Beretta beretta.clau...@gmail.com wrote: It appears that if you don't need or do something then you assume everyone else must doing the same, and when given reasons why one would appreciate getting an update announcement you still don't acknowledge that, so I've got this bad feeling I'm wasting our time here. Again, not every server admin has 24/7 access to a PC with TF2 to check updates, so getting timely update notifications on the mailing list is useful. My list isn't hypothetical: anyone that has been hosting tf2 servers for a while and cares about his community knows those and other issues happened regularly. And there are other ways to know an update has been released, such as a text/skype message on your phone (not hypothetical, happened to me for real). And yes, valve have been posting optional (client) updates to this list. On 26/01/2013 18:51, Claudio Beretta wrote: You can't really blame him for asking this: -no announcement available at release -client updates almost always make the server download the updated files, even if it's optional for them -tf2 history of forgetting to update steam.inf / master servers not sending out the update notification -tf2 history of mandatory updates being shipped as optional, and vice versa -tf2 history of ghost updates When no announcement is made, the only way to reliably figure out if an update is required for servers is having a client update, trying to connect to an outdated server. Not everyone has a PC with tf2 always available. I wasn't blaming him for anything. Just pointing out other ways to see what the client update was in the 45 minutes he must have sat nervously sweating about if there was an update or not. If he observed clients updating and connecting to his server then what I said applied - and if he didn't observe clients updating or servers updating because of the stuff in your hypothetical list then I can't imagine anyone would spontaneously decide to fret about whether there's an update or not. The truth, if you like, is the update process itself. If your server doesn't update or tell you there is an update, then there is no update. All the fluff about ghost updates and so on is a red herring. If your client updates, then it updates - whether the update is real or not is moot - your client is still updating isn't it? So, asking here is there an update makes little sense if you have a server nor if you don't have one. In the former case you can see for yourself if there is one and in the latter case it shouldn't really matter. I've never been sure why they post the updates here, because it has served little useful purpose at all (It's main feature seems to be to enable whoever's turn it is this week to reply to Eric's post moaning about whatever they don't currently like and to point out why that feature or bug will mean the end of TF2 as we know it) or to ask the same question about counterstrike that's asked every time. Now you want Eric to post when there aren't updates too? Because if there's no post saying there is an update you don't think There isn't an update you ask anyway just in case there is one. Sheesh. So yeah I get it, it's like when you get on a train, you know where you want to go, you know where the train is going from all the evidence, but you still start sweating and have to ask someone Is this the train to Greater Frogsbottom? You don't trust any of the numerous things telling you there is no update. In that case you'll just have to sit and sweat and see where the train goes. Or it's like the timestamp some log programs put in syslog to stop admins who decide no error messages can't mean nothing's broken, Eric needs to post once an hour to say No update so we know he's not merely forgotten to post. -- Dan. __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linuxhttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Idleness is not doing nothing. Idleness is being free to do anything. - Floyd Dell ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?
On 26/01/2013 01:49, wickedplayer494 . wrote: Thing is, they weren't available for close to 45 minutes before now. There was more than enough reason to inquire during then. If your client updated and you connect to your non updated server it can't be mandatory. The tf2 wiki usually has an entry for client updates even if valve don't release a changelog. If there's no update, there's no update. The server won't say there's an update, it won't download one etc etc. What specifically about the lack of any evidence for an update made you wonder if there might be one? -- Dan ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?
The main question that I asked was did servers even get it at all? (not was this a mandatory update?). Documentation was merely a secondary question. On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 7:03 AM, dan needa...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 26/01/2013 01:49, wickedplayer494 . wrote: Thing is, they weren't available for close to 45 minutes before now. There was more than enough reason to inquire during then. If your client updated and you connect to your non updated server it can't be mandatory. The tf2 wiki usually has an entry for client updates even if valve don't release a changelog. If there's no update, there's no update. The server won't say there's an update, it won't download one etc etc. What specifically about the lack of any evidence for an update made you wonder if there might be one? -- Dan __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linuxhttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?
You can't really blame him for asking this: -no announcement available at release -client updates almost always make the server download the updated files, even if it's optional for them -tf2 history of forgetting to update steam.inf / master servers not sending out the update notification -tf2 history of mandatory updates being shipped as optional, and vice versa -tf2 history of ghost updates When no announcement is made, the only way to reliably figure out if an update is required for servers is having a client update, trying to connect to an outdated server. Not everyone has a PC with tf2 always available. On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 2:03 PM, dan needa...@ntlworld.com wrote: On 26/01/2013 01:49, wickedplayer494 . wrote: Thing is, they weren't available for close to 45 minutes before now. There was more than enough reason to inquire during then. If your client updated and you connect to your non updated server it can't be mandatory. The tf2 wiki usually has an entry for client updates even if valve don't release a changelog. If there's no update, there's no update. The server won't say there's an update, it won't download one etc etc. What specifically about the lack of any evidence for an update made you wonder if there might be one? -- Dan __**_ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.**com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/**hlds_linuxhttps://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?
On 26/01/2013 18:51, Claudio Beretta wrote: You can't really blame him for asking this: -no announcement available at release -client updates almost always make the server download the updated files, even if it's optional for them -tf2 history of forgetting to update steam.inf / master servers not sending out the update notification -tf2 history of mandatory updates being shipped as optional, and vice versa -tf2 history of ghost updates When no announcement is made, the only way to reliably figure out if an update is required for servers is having a client update, trying to connect to an outdated server. Not everyone has a PC with tf2 always available. I wasn't blaming him for anything. Just pointing out other ways to see what the client update was in the 45 minutes he must have sat nervously sweating about if there was an update or not. If he observed clients updating and connecting to his server then what I said applied - and if he didn't observe clients updating or servers updating because of the stuff in your hypothetical list then I can't imagine anyone would spontaneously decide to fret about whether there's an update or not. The truth, if you like, is the update process itself. If your server doesn't update or tell you there is an update, then there is no update. All the fluff about ghost updates and so on is a red herring. If your client updates, then it updates - whether the update is real or not is moot - your client is still updating isn't it? So, asking here is there an update makes little sense if you have a server nor if you don't have one. In the former case you can see for yourself if there is one and in the latter case it shouldn't really matter. I've never been sure why they post the updates here, because it has served little useful purpose at all (It's main feature seems to be to enable whoever's turn it is this week to reply to Eric's post moaning about whatever they don't currently like and to point out why that feature or bug will mean the end of TF2 as we know it) or to ask the same question about counterstrike that's asked every time. Now you want Eric to post when there aren't updates too? Because if there's no post saying there is an update you don't think There isn't an update you ask anyway just in case there is one. Sheesh. So yeah I get it, it's like when you get on a train, you know where you want to go, you know where the train is going from all the evidence, but you still start sweating and have to ask someone Is this the train to Greater Frogsbottom? You don't trust any of the numerous things telling you there is no update. In that case you'll just have to sit and sweat and see where the train goes. Or it's like the timestamp some log programs put in syslog to stop admins who decide no error messages can't mean nothing's broken, Eric needs to post once an hour to say No update so we know he's not merely forgotten to post. -- Dan. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?
Clients only. -Eric From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of wickedplayer494 . Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:17 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation? cough Forgot to mention this is for TF2. On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 7:15 PM, wickedplayer494 . wickedplayer...@gmail.commailto:wickedplayer...@gmail.com wrote: Clients seem to be getting a new ~40 MBish update. Wanted to check here to see if any server admins got it for their servers too or if it appears to be client-only and any possible word from Valve on what this particular update happens to do. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?
Yeah I saw It download something for dustbowl.. not sure of anything else. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Eric Smith Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 8:21 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation? Clients only. -Eric From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of wickedplayer494 . Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:17 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation? cough Forgot to mention this is for TF2. On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 7:15 PM, wickedplayer494 . wickedplayer...@gmail.commailto:wickedplayer...@gmail.com wrote: Clients seem to be getting a new ~40 MBish update. Wanted to check here to see if any server admins got it for their servers too or if it appears to be client-only and any possible word from Valve on what this particular update happens to do. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?
If you guys would wait a couple of seconds for the release notes to be published, you wouldn't have to jump on the mailinglist right away :-P - Fixed a client crash during demo playback So clearly clients only. On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 2:22 AM, Frank ad...@gamerscrib.net wrote: Yeah I saw It download something for dustbowl.. not sure of anything else. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Eric Smith Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 8:21 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation? Clients only. -Eric From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of wickedplayer494 . Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:17 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation? cough Forgot to mention this is for TF2. On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 7:15 PM, wickedplayer494 . wickedplayer...@gmail.commailto:wickedplayer...@gmail.com wrote: Clients seem to be getting a new ~40 MBish update. Wanted to check here to see if any server admins got it for their servers too or if it appears to be client-only and any possible word from Valve on what this particular update happens to do. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Idleness is not doing nothing. Idleness is being free to do anything. - Floyd Dell ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation?
Thing is, they weren't available for close to 45 minutes before now. There was more than enough reason to inquire during then. On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 7:48 PM, Rudy Bleeker rblee...@gmail.com wrote: If you guys would wait a couple of seconds for the release notes to be published, you wouldn't have to jump on the mailinglist right away :-P - Fixed a client crash during demo playback So clearly clients only. On Sat, Jan 26, 2013 at 2:22 AM, Frank ad...@gamerscrib.net wrote: Yeah I saw It download something for dustbowl.. not sure of anything else. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Eric Smith Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 8:21 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation? Clients only. -Eric From: hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of wickedplayer494 . Sent: Friday, January 25, 2013 5:17 PM To: Half-Life dedicated Win32 server mailing list; Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds] Possible new update that is ~40 MB in size with no documentation? cough Forgot to mention this is for TF2. On Fri, Jan 25, 2013 at 7:15 PM, wickedplayer494 . wickedplayer...@gmail.commailto:wickedplayer...@gmail.com wrote: Clients seem to be getting a new ~40 MBish update. Wanted to check here to see if any server admins got it for their servers too or if it appears to be client-only and any possible word from Valve on what this particular update happens to do. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- Idleness is not doing nothing. Idleness is being free to do anything. - Floyd Dell ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
