Re: [hlds_linux] Multithreaded
In 2001 there was an faq that stated that hlds did not support smp (symmetric multi-processing), but that valve was considering it. I don't know what happened to this old faq, I wasn't able to find a copy of it. I pretty sure Valve never got around to doing anything about this, since to reverse engineer multicore support into a program like hlds would be a huge amount of work and would probably result in a nasty hair-ball of code unless you re-engineered the entire source base, and that would have been way more work than it was worth. June 2003 our good friend Alfred Reynolds said: "HLDS is a tightly couple system which won't benefit from the loosely coupled threading available in SMP machines. The server is very serial, it collects data from everyone for a frame, calculates the results and then sends them out (this is obviously a simplification). Adding another thread would be useless, it would probably end up lessening performance due to the overheads require for synchronisation." I don't remember anyone from valve commenting on hlds being multithreaded since then, but if you want to search the archives you might find it. Most of the discussions back then were just us server operators talking back and forth about it. Back then SMP was pretty new, and to further confuse the issue there were SMT cpus, I vaguely recall the old PIII cpus could be ran in dual thread mode or was it the PIVs? So we spent some time talking about what good this new fangled technology would do us. On 03/11/2012 12:04 AM, Timo Schrappe wrote: Considering that there is no search in the archive, can you post the link to that conversation, please? I want an official statement from a valve developer. In Germany, the host companies are promoting that they have that option to "bind" the daemon on multiple core. Is this bullshit? Timo On 11.03.2012, at 01:14, Ook wrote: Several years ago this topic was brought up, and IIRC someone from Valve said it just wasn't going to happen because of all of the work it would take. Hlds was developed back when cpus did not have multiple cores and a PIII 450MHz was a hot machine. Reverse engineering the code to add concurrency just isn't worth the effort. I think my first OP4 server was run on a PIII 800MHz, and then got moved to an Athlon. And even on those relatively old and slow boxes it did not use a significant amount of cpu. On 03/10/2012 12:26 PM, Timo Schrappe wrote: Nobody can say what exactly is right? Is there no documentation? How long does this game exist?... Timo On 10.03.2012, at 09:06, hlds wrote: For HLDS? Are you sure? I know that SRCDS can use multiple cores and the feature is actually enabled by default since few months, but HLDS is single-threaded as far as I know. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Garcia Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:13 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Multithreaded There is a command parameter that allows multicore support. However, this is **not** recommended, and it's for the best to stay within one single core. Cheers mate! - B On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Timo Schrappe wrote: Hello together, is it true that hlds is multithreaded? hl.exe is not, right? I mean there is no multicore support at all... Timo ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Multithreaded
They can set the cpu affinity of hlds to multiple cores, so that the OS scheduler will choose between only those cores when processing hlds CPU bound tasks. Since it's singlethreaded though it will still only be executing in a single core at any given point in time. Not sure why they would promote that for hlds, unless they're using that to claim they don't overload their servers. Still a meaningless statement in that case though. On 3/11/2012 12:04 AM, Timo Schrappe wrote: Considering that there is no search in the archive, can you post the link to that conversation, please? I want an official statement from a valve developer. In Germany, the host companies are promoting that they have that option to "bind" the daemon on multiple core. Is this bullshit? Timo ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Multithreaded
Considering that there is no search in the archive, can you post the link to that conversation, please? I want an official statement from a valve developer. In Germany, the host companies are promoting that they have that option to "bind" the daemon on multiple core. Is this bullshit? Timo On 11.03.2012, at 01:14, Ook wrote: > Several years ago this topic was brought up, and IIRC someone from Valve said > it just wasn't going to happen because of all of the work it would take. Hlds > was developed back when cpus did not have multiple cores and a PIII 450MHz > was a hot machine. Reverse engineering the code to add concurrency just isn't > worth the effort. > > I think my first OP4 server was run on a PIII 800MHz, and then got moved to > an Athlon. And even on those relatively old and slow boxes it did not use a > significant amount of cpu. > > > > > On 03/10/2012 12:26 PM, Timo Schrappe wrote: >> Nobody can say what exactly is right? >> >> Is there no documentation? How long does this game exist?... >> >> Timo >> >> >> On 10.03.2012, at 09:06, hlds wrote: >> >>> For HLDS? Are you sure? >>> >>> I know that SRCDS can use multiple cores and the feature is actually enabled >>> by default since few months, but HLDS is single-threaded as far as I know. >>> >>> -Original Message- >>> From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com >>> [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Garcia >>> Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:13 AM >>> To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list >>> Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Multithreaded >>> >>> There is a command parameter that allows multicore support. >>> However, this is **not** recommended, and it's for the best to stay within >>> one single core. >>> >>> Cheers mate! >>> - B >>> >>> On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Timo Schrappe wrote: >>> >>>> Hello together, >>>> >>>> is it true that hlds is multithreaded? hl.exe is not, right? >>>> >>>> I mean there is no multicore support at all... >>>> >>>> >>>> Timo >>>> >>>> ___ >>>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>>> please visit: >>>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >>>> >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >>> >>> >>> ___ >>> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >>> please visit: >>> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >>> >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Multithreaded
Several years ago this topic was brought up, and IIRC someone from Valve said it just wasn't going to happen because of all of the work it would take. Hlds was developed back when cpus did not have multiple cores and a PIII 450MHz was a hot machine. Reverse engineering the code to add concurrency just isn't worth the effort. I think my first OP4 server was run on a PIII 800MHz, and then got moved to an Athlon. And even on those relatively old and slow boxes it did not use a significant amount of cpu. On 03/10/2012 12:26 PM, Timo Schrappe wrote: Nobody can say what exactly is right? Is there no documentation? How long does this game exist?... Timo On 10.03.2012, at 09:06, hlds wrote: For HLDS? Are you sure? I know that SRCDS can use multiple cores and the feature is actually enabled by default since few months, but HLDS is single-threaded as far as I know. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Garcia Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:13 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Multithreaded There is a command parameter that allows multicore support. However, this is **not** recommended, and it's for the best to stay within one single core. Cheers mate! - B On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Timo Schrappe wrote: Hello together, is it true that hlds is multithreaded? hl.exe is not, right? I mean there is no multicore support at all... Timo ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Multithreaded
Nobody can say what exactly is right? Is there no documentation? How long does this game exist?... Timo On 10.03.2012, at 09:06, hlds wrote: > For HLDS? Are you sure? > > I know that SRCDS can use multiple cores and the feature is actually enabled > by default since few months, but HLDS is single-threaded as far as I know. > > -Original Message- > From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com > [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Garcia > Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:13 AM > To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Multithreaded > > There is a command parameter that allows multicore support. > However, this is **not** recommended, and it's for the best to stay within > one single core. > > Cheers mate! > - B > > On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Timo Schrappe wrote: > >> Hello together, >> >> is it true that hlds is multithreaded? hl.exe is not, right? >> >> I mean there is no multicore support at all... >> >> >> Timo >> >> ___ >> To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, >> please visit: >> https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux >> > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please > visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Multithreaded
For HLDS? Are you sure? I know that SRCDS can use multiple cores and the feature is actually enabled by default since few months, but HLDS is single-threaded as far as I know. -Original Message- From: hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com [mailto:hlds_linux-boun...@list.valvesoftware.com] On Behalf Of Bruno Garcia Sent: Saturday, March 10, 2012 3:13 AM To: Half-Life dedicated Linux server mailing list Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Multithreaded There is a command parameter that allows multicore support. However, this is **not** recommended, and it's for the best to stay within one single core. Cheers mate! - B On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Timo Schrappe wrote: > Hello together, > > is it true that hlds is multithreaded? hl.exe is not, right? > > I mean there is no multicore support at all... > > > Timo > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Multithreaded
There is a command parameter that allows multicore support. However, this is **not** recommended, and it's for the best to stay within one single core. Cheers mate! - B On Fri, Mar 9, 2012 at 5:27 PM, Timo Schrappe wrote: > Hello together, > > is it true that hlds is multithreaded? hl.exe is not, right? > > I mean there is no multicore support at all... > > > Timo > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
[hlds_linux] Multithreaded
Hello together, is it true that hlds is multithreaded? hl.exe is not, right? I mean there is no multicore support at all... Timo ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: https://list.valvesoftware.com/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
