Re: [hlds_linux] [OT] Xeon vs P3

[Matthew Donnon]

- Original Message -
From: "Stan Hoeppner" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Tuesday, December 03, 2002 4:07 PM
Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] [OT] Xeon vs P3


>
> > Xeons could be better.  They're not just an SMP capable P4.
>
> Ahh, but that's exactly what the new Xeon is-- an SMP capable P4.  The
only
> differences are SMP and the optional L3 cache sizes (and hyperthreading,
> although the latest--3Ghz--P4 has it also).  Also keep in mind that the
> XeonDP doesn't have an L3 cache option, and that its L2 cache is the same
> size as the P4.  So, the XeonDP *IS* merely a P4 with 2-way SMP support:
>
> http://developer.intel.com/design/Xeon/prodbref/
>
> And, regarding hyperthreading, is seems safe to assume that no one read
the
> links I posted before.  sigh...  At this point, Intel's Hyperthreading
> (again, generically called Simultaneous Multithreading, or SMT) is nothing
> more than marketing hype.  As Intel plainly states, Linux does not support
> it, nor do any of MS's current server OSs.

ah, not quite true
Linux as of kernel 2.4.18 supports HT
The biggest advantage that HT would give would be better allocation of
resources when dealing with something like IDE overhead (a large matter of
contention in this list)
In some SMP aware applications, the second chip almost doubles the
performance, HT merely ups that by around 20-30%.

Matt


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux

RE: [hlds_linux] [OT] Xeon vs P3

[Anders Vinger]

I have been running a 32 player cs server on one of these.

http://www.euro.dell.com/countries/no/nor/pad/products/model_pedge_3_pedge_2650.htm


I used .net standard server on it. Cpu usage was very low indeed.
Take a look
http://storbonden.uio.no/cgi-bin/iB3/ikonboard.cgi?s=3dec65654339;act=ST;f=9;t=3
at the time of this screenshot the server had 28 users.

Anyways when I added a 14-player ns-server the cpu-usage went up to 40-50%
when both servers where full.

(I had 1.6 ghz cpus, 2 gig Ram, and 100mbit\s)

Now the box is doing its proper job as a domain controller, *sob*


DarkSpawn

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux

RE: [hlds_linux] [OT] Xeon vs P3

[Stan Hoeppner]

> Xeons could be better.  They're not just an SMP capable P4.

Ahh, but that's exactly what the new Xeon is-- an SMP capable P4.  The only
differences are SMP and the optional L3 cache sizes (and hyperthreading,
although the latest--3Ghz--P4 has it also).  Also keep in mind that the
XeonDP doesn't have an L3 cache option, and that its L2 cache is the same
size as the P4.  So, the XeonDP *IS* merely a P4 with 2-way SMP support:

http://developer.intel.com/design/Xeon/prodbref/

And, regarding hyperthreading, is seems safe to assume that no one read the
links I posted before.  sigh...  At this point, Intel's Hyperthreading
(again, generically called Simultaneous Multithreading, or SMT) is nothing
more than marketing hype.  As Intel plainly states, Linux does not support
it, nor do any of MS's current server OSs.  Don't waste any brain cycles on
it.  The 10.0Ghz Xeon (yes, ten, equal to ~2 years) will be out before
hyperthreading enjoys *cough* widespread *cough* support anyway.  By that
time Hammer will be out, and then, well, all bets are off.  Early
indications are that Hammer will run Xeon into the ground, and will only
have serious competetion from Itanium3/4.  Can anyone here afford an Itanium
machine?  I can't.  And I'd bet that AMD will price at least one Hammer
variant in the "mere mortal" category.

The Xeon is an overpriced, under performing (as far as user expectations go)
processor.  It'll cost you ~double a comparable AthlonMP platform, and give
you little or no performance gain for server work.  From PriceScan:

AMD Athlon MP 1900+ 1.60GHz/Socket A/266 FSB/384K (Box) $147.00
AMD Athlon MP 2000+ 1.67/Socket A /266 FSB/384K (Box) $156.00
AMD Athlon MP 2200+ 1.8GHz/Socket A/ 266 FSB/384K (Box) $216.00
Tyan S2460 Tiger MP $159.00
Asus A7M266 DPA Multi Processor $209.00
Giga-Byte GA-7DPXDWP $240.71

Intel Xeon 2.0GHz/Socket 603/400 FST/512K (Box) $218.00
Intel Xeon 2.2GHz/Socket 603/400 FST/512K (Box) $218.00
Intel Xeon 2.4GHz/Socket 603/400 FST/512K (Box) $255.50
Intel Xeon 2.6GHz/Socket 603/400 FST/512K (Box) $367.11
Intel Xeon 2.8GHz/Socket 603/400 FST/512K (Box) $481.05
Intel SE7500CW2 $373.47
SuperMicro P4DCE+ $380.00
Tyan S2720GN $384.87


I'd suggest (since a suggestion is what the original question asked for,
iirc) acquiring a dual AthlonMP 2000+ based on a Tyan S2460/2466 mobo.
You'll get far better performance per clock tic than a Xeon system, and save
a ton of money.  Hell, for some applications, a dual AthlonMP 2000+ may out
perform a dual P4 Xeon 2.8Ghz.

To date, I've never owned an AMD system.  I've been all Intel.  However, any
new system I build will be AMD based, because of the phenomenal
price/performance advantage, ESPECIALLY regarding SMP systems.  Intel shot
itself in the foot when it decided to strip 2-way SMP suppport from the P4,
and force one to go Xeon.  This created an enormous cost hurdle for those of
us who build 2-way boxen from components.  Even if Intel had left regular
P4s with 2-way capability, I'd still go AthlonMP due to price/performance.

StanTheMan
TheHardwareFreak
rcon admin at:
Beer for Breakfast servers
   209.41.98.2:27016 (CS multi-map)   209.41.98.2:27015 (DoD)
   209.41.98.2:27017 (CS militia/dust2)Dallas, TX


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux

RE: [hlds_linux] [OT] Xeon vs P3

[ToP CaT =^..^=]

Yep... Seems to be a limitation that raises when managing huge amounts
of memory (4GB) in such services like Metaframe. But maybe its a
limitation of the 32 bit memory addresing scheme rather than the OS
itself. Yes, it can manage >4GB but its just a patch.

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;q247904

-Mensaje original-
De: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] En nombre de Simon
Garner
Enviado el: martes, 03 de diciembre de 2002 0:14
Para: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Asunto: Re: [hlds_linux] [OT] Xeon vs P3


Sounds like this may be more due to the operating system than the
processor?

"Test results validated HP's belief that, as processor speeds increase,
the System Page Table Entry (PTE)/System Address Pool limitation
inherent in the 32-bit Windows 2000 operating system would be reached.
In this particular test environment, two-way ProLiant DL380 G3 2.8GHz
servers with hyper-threading enabled were limited to 175 users. This is
the first time that a two-way server has been able to sustain such a
workload while demonstrating the impact of the System PTE/System Address
Pool limitation on server performance."

(Somebody want to explain what that means - Stan?)

-Simon

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives,
please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux

Re: [hlds_linux] [OT] Xeon vs P3

[Simon Garner]

ToP CaT =^..^= <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Dual Xeon MP 2,8 vs Dual P3 1,4 Tualatin (that means 0,13 microns and
> 512 L2 cache) its only 22% improvement on Citrix Metaframe (Terminal
> Services). Thats QUITE dissapointing.
>
> See link
>
>
http://activeanswers.compaq.com/ActiveAnswers/Render/1,1027,5684-6-100-2
> 25-1,00.htm
>
> /me waits anxiously for Athlon64 (Clawhammer).
>
> ToP CaT =^..^=
>
>


Sounds like this may be more due to the operating system than the
processor?

"Test results validated HP's belief that, as processor speeds increase,
the System Page Table Entry (PTE)/System Address Pool limitation
inherent in the 32-bit Windows 2000 operating system would be reached.
In this particular test environment, two-way ProLiant DL380 G3 2.8GHz
servers with hyper-threading enabled were limited to 175 users. This is
the first time that a two-way server has been able to sustain such a
workload while demonstrating the impact of the System PTE/System Address
Pool limitation on server performance."

(Somebody want to explain what that means - Stan?)

-Simon

___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux

RE: [hlds_linux] [OT] Xeon vs P3

[ToP CaT =^..^=]

Dual Xeon MP 2,8 vs Dual P3 1,4 Tualatin (that means 0,13 microns and
512 L2 cache) its only 22% improvement on Citrix Metaframe (Terminal
Services). Thats QUITE dissapointing.

See link

http://activeanswers.compaq.com/ActiveAnswers/Render/1,1027,5684-6-100-2
25-1,00.htm

/me waits anxiously for Athlon64 (Clawhammer).

ToP CaT =^..^=


___
To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit:
http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux