Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
im accually running a 1.6 server on a 450 MHZ box now... seems to do just fine. Gonna retire the old thing someday hehe. - Original Message - From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 9:25 PM Subject: RE: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs Its amazing how much more resources these servers take now days. My first CS server ran on a PII450...I thought it was great to upgrade to a dual PIII 800 box LOL! Crazy_One -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric (Deacon) Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 11:05 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs In a bold display of creativity, DLinkOZ wrote: Whatever happened to the, at the time, monster server you ran "way back when"? Wasn't it some 8 way that ran an insane number of hlds instances (back when about 350mhz of a cpu is all any single instance needed)? It was shut down sometime around the end of 2001 or early 2002. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
Its amazing how much more resources these servers take now days. My first CS server ran on a PII450...I thought it was great to upgrade to a dual PIII 800 box LOL! Crazy_One -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric (Deacon) Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 11:05 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs In a bold display of creativity, DLinkOZ wrote: > Whatever happened to the, at the time, monster server you ran "way > back when"? Wasn't it some 8 way that ran an insane number of hlds > instances (back when about 350mhz of a cpu is all any single instance > needed)? It was shut down sometime around the end of 2001 or early 2002. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
Its amazing how much more resources these servers take now days. My first CS server ran on a PII450...I thought it was great to upgrade to a dual PIII 800 box LOL! Crazy_One -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric (Deacon) Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 11:05 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs In a bold display of creativity, DLinkOZ wrote: > Whatever happened to the, at the time, monster server you ran "way > back when"? Wasn't it some 8 way that ran an insane number of hlds > instances (back when about 350mhz of a cpu is all any single instance > needed)? It was shut down sometime around the end of 2001 or early 2002. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
In a bold display of creativity, DLinkOZ wrote: Whatever happened to the, at the time, monster server you ran "way back when"? Wasn't it some 8 way that ran an insane number of hlds instances (back when about 350mhz of a cpu is all any single instance needed)? It was shut down sometime around the end of 2001 or early 2002. -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
Yes, I believe you are the Eric he remembers. The Eric that's had an "on again, off again" affair with my kill filter :) Whatever happened to the, at the time, monster server you ran "way back when"? Wasn't it some 8 way that ran an insane number of hlds instances (back when about 350mhz of a cpu is all any single instance needed)? -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric (Deacon) Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 5:42 PM To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs In a bold display of creativity, Ook wrote: > Hmm, I think I remember you. I was here 4 years ago when you left (has > it really been that long?). If you are the Eric I remember, you had > (still > have?) a sharp tongue, and half of us missed you while the other half > of us were glad you left LOL. That's probably me you're thinking of :) -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
That's probably me you're thinking of :) Heh. It could be me as well, but I don't think I was that vocal. :) -- Erik Hollensbe [EMAIL PROTECTED] hee hee, don't take it personally. I'm not as active here as I used to be, but I'm sure when I'm gone there will be those glad to see me gone as well :P ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
On Oct 16, 2005, at 3:41 PM, Eric (Deacon) wrote: In a bold display of creativity, Ook wrote: Hmm, I think I remember you. I was here 4 years ago when you left (has it really been that long?). If you are the Eric I remember, you had (still have?) a sharp tongue, and half of us missed you while the other half of us were glad you left LOL. That's probably me you're thinking of :) Heh. It could be me as well, but I don't think I was that vocal. :) -- Erik Hollensbe [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
In a bold display of creativity, Ook wrote: Hmm, I think I remember you. I was here 4 years ago when you left (has it really been that long?). If you are the Eric I remember, you had (still have?) a sharp tongue, and half of us missed you while the other half of us were glad you left LOL. That's probably me you're thinking of :) -- Eric (the Deacon remix) ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
Hmm, I think I remember you. I was here 4 years ago when you left (has it really been that long?). If you are the Eric I remember, you had (still have?) a sharp tongue, and half of us missed you while the other half of us were glad you left LOL. Yes, not much has changed here. The ratio of good stuff to crap is pretty much the same, only the total volume has gone up a bit. And we still whine and cry about the littlest thing. Valve does not censor this list, and that is a good thing. I've been on moderated forums, and the moderators almost always get to anal and heavy handed with their censoring until good people leave and there is not enough volume left to sustain the list. I can handle the crap. I learn a lot from the OT posts, and there is entertainment value from some of the ... um...people ... here. Let's keep this list the way it is. Since I've been spending the last 20 minutes or so adjusting my filters to help me weed out this noisy conversation, I feel inclined to make a comment. I was on this list probably about 4 years ago. Since I rejoined it a week ago I see there's not much difference, only more people. The bickering and whining over topics that are best left ignored (such as, "what is the purpose of this list?") still dominate the list while the actual goals of the list, such as helping people with hlds on linux are drowned in a sea of meta-"planning" and ... crap. What I would like to get out of this list is a place to mingle with fellow game server administrators, be they GSP's or not (I work for a GSP, to disclaim), and let moderators decide if they want to shape the list in a certain way. There is no need to reply to every single little thing on the list. If someone wants to fan the flames, do all of us a favor by NOT replying to them and creating even more spam. That said, I'm going to go back to lurking through this crap and wishing it stops plaguing my inbox. If someone wants to propose a list or newsgroup with stronger moderation and focus and can guarantee cross posts from the valve people, I'm all ears and am willing to provide servers, administration, and moderation help. I am not interested in running a gamer community (been there, done that, got the t-shirt and burned it), but am more than willing to help. Thanks for letting me vent, -- Erik Hollensbe [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
IMHO is this Thread as unreasonably as the "GSP only list" Thread. We can produce tonns of traffic by talking about the sense of mailing lists, particularly this list, or we can use this list to receive and give help! Arris ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
On Oct 16, 2005, at 1:57 PM, Ian mu wrote: -- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] By definition if the only people allowed on the list are those who know the server side inside out, they will probably have nothing to ask and nothing to learn. The whole point (imo) of having these e-mail lists is to help those who don't know some things, not by creating elite lists. Since I've been spending the last 20 minutes or so adjusting my filters to help me weed out this noisy conversation, I feel inclined to make a comment. I was on this list probably about 4 years ago. Since I rejoined it a week ago I see there's not much difference, only more people. The bickering and whining over topics that are best left ignored (such as, "what is the purpose of this list?") still dominate the list while the actual goals of the list, such as helping people with hlds on linux are drowned in a sea of meta-"planning" and ... crap. What I would like to get out of this list is a place to mingle with fellow game server administrators, be they GSP's or not (I work for a GSP, to disclaim), and let moderators decide if they want to shape the list in a certain way. There is no need to reply to every single little thing on the list. If someone wants to fan the flames, do all of us a favor by NOT replying to them and creating even more spam. That said, I'm going to go back to lurking through this crap and wishing it stops plaguing my inbox. If someone wants to propose a list or newsgroup with stronger moderation and focus and can guarantee cross posts from the valve people, I'm all ears and am willing to provide servers, administration, and moderation help. I am not interested in running a gamer community (been there, done that, got the t-shirt and burned it), but am more than willing to help. Thanks for letting me vent, -- Erik Hollensbe [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
when I see a plugin that's worth paying for, i'll pay for it. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] By definition if the only people allowed on the list are those who know the server side inside out, they will probably have nothing to ask and nothing to learn. The whole point (imo) of having these e-mail lists is to help those who don't know some things, not by creating elite lists. On 10/16/05, DJ (e-Plutonia Inc.) <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Being through the GSP market, and at all other levels around it, I > understand the point made here, of arrogance and such, and I can say 90% > of > all existant GSPs (Legal or Illegal) honestly don't have a clue. As for > the > development, well I personally have put amxmodx and other little plugins > into pre-installation distributions before, and happened to have linked to > amxmodx directly. I also offered BailOpen access to some of the resources > which I have, to aid him with costs of running his projects, however he > was > not interested at the time. If I see worthy developments, I would > definatly > put my efforts into supporting them. However most GSPs have things to > worry > about, and not every GSP is stable enough to be giving away resources. > However I definatly agree that good developers deserve more credit. I was > actually thinking of opening a mailing list myself, but not for GSPs, but > rather a group of people who know the server side inside out, by > invitation, > anyone who is actually interested in that list, please e-mail me: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] , if enough people support this, I shall create > this > list. > > On 10/16/05, Ian mu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > -- > > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > > Yup, the effort I've seen people like Steve put into things like Qstat > > which > > so many use I think is a fair example tbh. Seen so many people use that > > from > > GSPs to gamers in irc etc. I just don't think you can make statements > like > > have been made. I try and help on lists in a small way when I can, and > > more > > so in common irc channels for absolutely no gain (apart from me learning > > from others just as others learn from me which is the main motivation of > > many). Even given competing GSPs help, just many have that ethos of what > > goes around comes around. > > -- > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > > -- > DJ Fadyeyev > Founder - e-Plutonia > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Being through the GSP market, and at all other levels around it, I understand the point made here, of arrogance and such, and I can say 90% of all existant GSPs (Legal or Illegal) honestly don't have a clue. As for the development, well I personally have put amxmodx and other little plugins into pre-installation distributions before, and happened to have linked to amxmodx directly. I also offered BailOpen access to some of the resources which I have, to aid him with costs of running his projects, however he was not interested at the time. If I see worthy developments, I would definatly put my efforts into supporting them. However most GSPs have things to worry about, and not every GSP is stable enough to be giving away resources. However I definatly agree that good developers deserve more credit. I was actually thinking of opening a mailing list myself, but not for GSPs, but rather a group of people who know the server side inside out, by invitation, anyone who is actually interested in that list, please e-mail me: [EMAIL PROTECTED] , if enough people support this, I shall create this list. On 10/16/05, Ian mu <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > -- > [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] > Yup, the effort I've seen people like Steve put into things like Qstat > which > so many use I think is a fair example tbh. Seen so many people use that > from > GSPs to gamers in irc etc. I just don't think you can make statements like > have been made. I try and help on lists in a small way when I can, and > more > so in common irc channels for absolutely no gain (apart from me learning > from others just as others learn from me which is the main motivation of > many). Even given competing GSPs help, just many have that ethos of what > goes around comes around. > -- > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > -- DJ Fadyeyev Founder - e-Plutonia -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
I started a page and GSPs that feel they have given back to the community are welcome to add their company to the list, with a description. If your GSP hasn't contributed anything to the community, I urge you to find someway that you can. I'll try and start another page listing possible ways a GSP can give back to the community in addition to what has been mentioned on this list. http://www.serverwiki.org/index.php/GSP_Community_Involvement Please don't look at this as an advertising opportunity, but as a way to show the community that you have been contributing back. Maybe a page like this will help ease tensions between the gaming community and GSPs. -- HoundDawg > > In fact, I think that I'll start a GSP Community Involvement page on > > ServerWiki.org later. Then, those that actually give back, can have a > > place of recognition for all to see. > > Wiki's are all well and good but there are so many and not all provide > useful info. Be interesting to see what sort of thing you are looking for > though :) > ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] Yup, the effort I've seen people like Steve put into things like Qstat which so many use I think is a fair example tbh. Seen so many people use that from GSPs to gamers in irc etc. I just don't think you can make statements like have been made. I try and help on lists in a small way when I can, and more so in common irc channels for absolutely no gain (apart from me learning from others just as others learn from me which is the main motivation of many). Even given competing GSPs help, just many have that ethos of what goes around comes around. -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
- Original Message - From: "HoundDawg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> IMO, GSPs have gained a tarnished image among those in the community, and it'll be up to them to help turn it around. So, it doesn't surprise me when I see negative responses toward GSPs on this list. There are a large amount kiddy GSP's, run out bedroom, out there I'll give you that. Even some of the larger ones seem to have very little knowledge about really running games. But others like ourselves actively support all the communities we are envolved in, from participation on lists like this, to writing the very pluggins that have been discussed and making them available free for all. In fact, I think that I'll start a GSP Community Involvement page on ServerWiki.org later. Then, those that actually give back, can have a place of recognition for all to see. Wiki's are all well and good but there are so many and not all provide useful info. Be interesting to see what sort of thing you are looking for though :) Steve / K This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone (023) 8024 3137 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
Yes, some GSPs allow full control by those renting the servers, but many of your bigger GSPs provide more secured and locked down servers that are even pre-configured with software. I also disagree with thinking that those that can support do. I wouldn't be far off if the figure was 5% or less of those that can support actually do. One of the reasons why the GSP model is so popular is because if done right, there's a lot of profit to be made. Unfortunately, most don't even think about all those that helped make their network run more efficient, field admin issues, or even provide utilities for their clients (for those that are pre-installed). Throw on the fact that they run 10+ servers, all of a sudden they have this arrogance that they deserve special treatment, despite that they're making money on those servers while many other admins are paying. IMO, GSPs have gained a tarnished image among those in the community, and it'll be up to them to help turn it around. So, it doesn't surprise me when I see negative responses toward GSPs on this list. In fact, I think that I'll start a GSP Community Involvement page on ServerWiki.org later. Then, those that actually give back, can have a place of recognition for all to see. -- HoundDawg > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:hlds_linux- > [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Steven Hartland > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 10:25 AM > To: hlds_linux@list.valvesoftware.com > Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs > > You could actually look at it the other way. GPS's themselves > dont use the pluggins its the gamers and the admins that do. > > Its actually more hassle for them to support more pluggins especially > when they dont work properly or are overly complicated for users > hence they lead to more support work. > > All in all I find this both sides to this argument null an void. As the > over all balance of support vs none support evens out across the > board. Those that can do and those that cant dont. > > Steve / K ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
You could actually look at it the other way. GPS's themselves dont use the pluggins its the gamers and the admins that do. Its actually more hassle for them to support more pluggins especially when they dont work properly or are overly complicated for users hence they lead to more support work. All in all I find this both sides to this argument null an void. As the over all balance of support vs none support evens out across the board. Those that can do and those that cant dont. Steve / K - Original Message - From: "HoundDawg" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> I think what Frash and others in the community often feel, is just a little more support, especially from the GSPs. Yes, some GSPs do offer a server or 2, which I saw at UnitedAdmins often enough. Even then, at least 50% of the resources donated, didn't come from GSPs, but rather individuals and teams/guilds. Not to mention, there are still those groups that provide a lot to the community and don't even get a server offer at all. One of the most disappointing approaches I've seen by GSPs to community groups like UnitedAdmins (pre-LTD), is that they wanted free advertising for a deal that amounted to just a kickback percentage on initial server rentals. This is hardly what I consider community support or any sort of donation and just makes the GSP look bad. Many of these development groups have PayPal donation buttons setup, yet the main donators are from users. Out of everyone that use these freely offered products, GSPs tend to benefit the most and are actually generating revenue in the process. The least they can do, is help support those that support them by donating a little of these funds back to these groups. A little can go a long way. I'm sure most of these groups would be happy to inform their community and website visitors of the contributions made by particular GSPs. Sure, it may not be a legal issue, but it is a community issue that has been around for many years. I do have to agree that those GSPs wanting a separate list and expecting different/better treatment from Valve, should really do a re-evaluation of their business and community model. It even took some nerve to even request such a thing on a list where many of the admins here are probably renting servers from these GSPs. This e.mail is private and confidential between Multiplay (UK) Ltd. and the person or entity to whom it is addressed. In the event of misdirection, the recipient is prohibited from using, copying, printing or otherwise disseminating it or any information contained in it. In the event of misdirection, illegible or incomplete transmission please telephone (023) 8024 3137 or return the E.mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
I think what Frash and others in the community often feel, is just a little more support, especially from the GSPs. Yes, some GSPs do offer a server or 2, which I saw at UnitedAdmins often enough. Even then, at least 50% of the resources donated, didn't come from GSPs, but rather individuals and teams/guilds. Not to mention, there are still those groups that provide a lot to the community and don't even get a server offer at all. One of the most disappointing approaches I've seen by GSPs to community groups like UnitedAdmins (pre-LTD), is that they wanted free advertising for a deal that amounted to just a kickback percentage on initial server rentals. This is hardly what I consider community support or any sort of donation and just makes the GSP look bad. Many of these development groups have PayPal donation buttons setup, yet the main donators are from users. Out of everyone that use these freely offered products, GSPs tend to benefit the most and are actually generating revenue in the process. The least they can do, is help support those that support them by donating a little of these funds back to these groups. A little can go a long way. I'm sure most of these groups would be happy to inform their community and website visitors of the contributions made by particular GSPs. Sure, it may not be a legal issue, but it is a community issue that has been around for many years. I do have to agree that those GSPs wanting a separate list and expecting different/better treatment from Valve, should really do a re-evaluation of their business and community model. It even took some nerve to even request such a thing on a list where many of the admins here are probably renting servers from these GSPs. BTW, not all GSPs are bad, just a few fly-by ones started by teenagers usually have the greed associated with them. Anyway, my 2 cents on the issue. -- HoundDawg ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
RE: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
Frash wrote: > First all GSPs leech the entire developing community. I had a chat > with an insider in the developing world and it turns out he gets > practically no donations for a widely used plugin he made. (Firstly, I'd like to point out that I am a software developer myself, and have been in the commerical arena for several years.) While you are not naming names, I'd like to suggest that many plugins or modifications that people develop for games tend to do it for either fun or educational reasons, or that they wanted a particular functionality for a particular purpose and decide to release it freely. As far as I'm aware, there are no plugins that are under any kind of commercial or business licensing scheme - some plugins do not even have a licence. Some plugins also have no commercial realisation insofar that their plugin may be used by a gaming provider without the author(s) knowing. The modification community generally - for all games, not just Source ones - provides things for free that can be used for any purpose as seen fit. If this isn't correct, developers really should put their commercial hats on, perhaps seek legal advice, and make their intentions known. If this developer that you spoke to is looking for required donations from corporate entities, he really should make this clear, in a language that business people understand (and not developer language, it took me a few years to figure out the difference). Investigate a specific commercial model, a sales tactic and go from there - relying on someone to click a Paypal button is not going to work, no matter how many times you display it on a web page. > GSPs are using knowledge shared by enthusiastic users on the lists > and forums. If they wouldn't be there, most GSPs wouldn't be knowing > what they know now. Then we have to put up with all kinds business > related questions. (Taxes, what boxes need to be bought). While this is true to a degree, typically, GSPs have an understanding of core networking, experience when it comes to running servers and providing a customer service that troubleshoots clients problems. These are the things what clients pay for, not for what can be found on public forums. > Now if that isn't enough we listen to all kinds of crying how VALVe > sucks and how Steam messed up their business and customers are > running away. Steam is a very attractive business model, if GSPs sit down and think about it (which most have by now, I'd have thought). Back when it was launched, requiring a Steam logon for downloading server software was conceptionally an operational nightmare, but thankfully Valve removed this requirement. Myself and a mate have written some custom stuff for our servers, but none of this has been made available publically, largely because we want to keep it to ourselves. There are several other server operators out there that also have server-side mods that they developed themselves. If they choose to release these publically that is entirely their own decision, but distributing software is not as easy as sticking a Zip file on a web site... My two pence. -- Bart King +44 7812 195654 - http://www.bart666.com ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
The man is right, If you'd be an part of a developers crew you'd understand what he talks about. We try stimulate development projects as much as we can with testing servers, databases, webspace etc anything they need. And i can tell you some loved whide spread used stuff came out of it. But not 1 (yes not 1!) of the people using the programs has actually donated for it. All our servers and projects are funded by the PLAYERS on our servers, never a fellow server host showed intrest in backing up a project wich they used. Saint K. - Original Message - From: "aXeR (AmmoBOX)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 1:00 PM Subject: Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs Why thank you for tarnishing us all with the same brush, what a mature and naive person you are. I look forward to many more useful contributions that I'm sure you make to the mailing list. - Original Message - From: "Frash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 11:51 AM Subject: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs First all GSPs leech the entire developing community. I had a chat with an insider in the developing world and it turns out he gets practically no donations for a widely used plugin he made. Then the GSPs are using knowledge shared by enthusiastic users on the lists and forums. If they wouldn't be there, most GSPs wouldn't be knowing what they know now. Then we have to put up with all kinds business related questions. (Taxes, what boxes need to be bought). Now if that isn't enough we listen to all kinds of crying how VALVe sucks and how Steam messed up their business and customers are running away. And now, people have the brutality to ask for a seperate list. You GSP guys sicken me... really. Bunch of ignorant leechers. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.0.344 / Virus Database: 267.12.1/136 - Release Date: 10/15/2005 ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
-- [ Picked text/plain from multipart/alternative ] I help a GSP, we also help developers and typically may give them a free server to host their test platform on if it helps them. There's various people who work for or help GSPs here who also contribute a lot of their knowledge to the list and I see it repeatedly. If someone makes a plugin, then if its a GSP directly related plugin then yes donations may be applicable, if its a general plugin I'm not sure why a GSP has any more reason to donate than the people who play and use it really. I'll personally try and help anyone on these lists if I can. I do disagree with the separate list issue though and think its a bad idea, the rest is kinda irrelevant as no one really knows who is who. Everyone on here that helps may work for a gsp for all I know. On 10/16/05, Kingsley Foreman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > hear hear. > > > > - Original Message - > From: "Frash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: > Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:21 PM > Subject: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs > > > > First all GSPs leech the entire developing community. I had a chat with > an > > insider in the developing world and it turns out he gets practically no > > donations for a widely used plugin he made. Then the GSPs are using > > knowledge shared by enthusiastic users on the lists and forums. If they > > wouldn't be there, most GSPs wouldn't be knowing what they know now. > Then > > we > > have to put up with all kinds business related questions. (Taxes, what > > boxes > > need to be bought). > > > > Now if that isn't enough we listen to all kinds of crying how VALVe > sucks > > and how Steam messed up their business and customers are running away. > > > > And now, people have the brutality to ask for a seperate list. You GSP > > guys > > sicken me... really. > > > > Bunch of ignorant leechers. > > > > > > ___ > > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > > please visit: > > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > > > > ___ > To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, > please visit: > http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux > > -- ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
Why thank you for tarnishing us all with the same brush, what a mature and naive person you are. I look forward to many more useful contributions that I'm sure you make to the mailing list. - Original Message - From: "Frash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 11:51 AM Subject: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs First all GSPs leech the entire developing community. I had a chat with an insider in the developing world and it turns out he gets practically no donations for a widely used plugin he made. Then the GSPs are using knowledge shared by enthusiastic users on the lists and forums. If they wouldn't be there, most GSPs wouldn't be knowing what they know now. Then we have to put up with all kinds business related questions. (Taxes, what boxes need to be bought). Now if that isn't enough we listen to all kinds of crying how VALVe sucks and how Steam messed up their business and customers are running away. And now, people have the brutality to ask for a seperate list. You GSP guys sicken me... really. Bunch of ignorant leechers. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
Re: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs
hear hear. - Original Message - From: "Frash" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: Sent: Sunday, October 16, 2005 8:21 PM Subject: [hlds_linux] Sickened by arrogant GSPs First all GSPs leech the entire developing community. I had a chat with an insider in the developing world and it turns out he gets practically no donations for a widely used plugin he made. Then the GSPs are using knowledge shared by enthusiastic users on the lists and forums. If they wouldn't be there, most GSPs wouldn't be knowing what they know now. Then we have to put up with all kinds business related questions. (Taxes, what boxes need to be bought). Now if that isn't enough we listen to all kinds of crying how VALVe sucks and how Steam messed up their business and customers are running away. And now, people have the brutality to ask for a seperate list. You GSP guys sicken me... really. Bunch of ignorant leechers. ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux ___ To unsubscribe, edit your list preferences, or view the list archives, please visit: http://list.valvesoftware.com/mailman/listinfo/hlds_linux
