Re: [Hornlist] Valve cleaning
I'm not entirely sure of the tone of this email... and with all due respect, Hans, I respect your playing, your advice, and respect you a great deal. However, I do believe you are mis-judging a few things about me and what I said... and so let me address these individually. First of all, you stated: Dismantling the valves cleaning them in an acidic bath every 4 - 8 weeks, - just asking about this - , seems to be dangerous if not insane. ... well I never said that. I only mentioned a _possible_ acid cleaning every one or two years. Also, most people on this list have only mentioned the same thing, if not less frequently. Most do suggest ultrasonic cleaning of course. So I do agree with you there, and was not sure if you were implying that I do that - which I don't. Now onto the next statement: BECAUSE THIS PROCEDURE IS DANGEROUS FOR THE VALVES, if not done with the proper care. Some repairperson do it also without proper care, as they REFIT the valves DAMAGE them the same time. Every time a bit more. The careful repairperson knows how to dismantle reassemble the valves with the necessary care. They know, that refitting is NOT necessary except very rare cases when the valve has a mechanical problem. The know how to neutralize the acidic bath. They use the acidic bath ONLY, if the ultrasonic process does not remove all dirt. I agree entirely. However while I'm no expert, I do know of the proper care and handling rotors require. Refitting to me only means small micrometer type adjustments of the top bearing plate and possible adjustment of the stop arms to ensure a good lining up of the holes of the valve to the tubing of the slides. It doesn't mean I take a belt sander out and try to re-lap the valve casings or anything silly like that. I'm not sure but judging by the tone of your email, I hope you weren't suggesting that I didn't have a clue what I was doing. I also ONLY used the acidic bath after the ultrasonic process because it didn't remove all the dirt. So I do agree with you, and followed your advice even though it was given after - so I must be on the right track? To the next statement: Do you like the brass-stunk coming out at front end rear of your horn ? Stop it, by not spitting garbage into the horn by rinsing the horn every few months. Do you over oil your valves ? YES, too much oil makes the valves sluggish. Once a week would be enough, but very carefully using a minimum of oil. Do you leave the horn in the case for several days without touching it ? Quite often, instead of practising ? In a quite dry climate ? All causes thge valves to go slow. Actually, I'm very obsessive compulsive when it comes to brushing my teeth. I always keep a travel sized toothbrush and toothpaste in my horn case. I do not over oil my horn, and in fact the only times it needs re-oiling is when I give it an ultrasonic cleaning. I never leave my horn in its case without touching it for more than a few hours, if you want the truth of it. I play a lot around here, and I practice a lot, too. Dry climate though, it's actually a sub-tropical one where I live but that's besides the point. To the next statement: Take up the horn EVERY DAY, may it be just for few minutes. The valves will be thankful, most thankful. AND, DO NOT FORGET TO CLEAN YOUR MOUTH, - NOT ONLY BEFORE PLAYING or because of playing. CLEAN IT AFTER EVERY MEAL, AFTER EVERY FOOD INTAKE. You will save a lot of dentist bills repairman bills. I agree 100%. And finally: And finally: HOW ABOUT GIVING YOUR HORN A COMPLETE CHECK-UP every few years ? At a good repairperson. Done and done. My next check-up is in two years or so. Meanwhile, ultrasonic cleaning of the rotors every month or so won't hurt anything so long as I'm careful, right? The only thing I didn't like was the tone of the email. I'm not sure if you were referring to me or just people in general that do that. If it is the later, I humbly apologize and would like to tell you that despite the tone of it I do agree with you completely. -William In a message dated 3/13/2005 1:08:18 A.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Valve cleaning is something for the repairman. Dismantling the valves cleaning them in an acidic bath every 4 - 8 weeks, - just asking about this - , seems to be dangerous if not insane. I have NEVER done it during over 50 years of playing (nearly 50 years professionally). WHY ? BECAUSE THIS PROCEDURE IS DANGEROUS FOR THE VALVES, if not done with the proper care. Some repairperson do it also without proper care, as they REFIT the valves DAMAGE them the same time. Every time a bit more. The careful repairperson knows how to dismantle reassemble the valves with the necessary care. They know, that refitting is NOT necessary except very rare cases when the valve has a mechanical problem. The know how to neutralize the acidic bath. They use
Re: [Hornlist] From Beethoven to Brahms Violin Concerto
4 in the Brahms fiddle concerto ( 2nd movt. only 1 2 from memory) Cheers, Graeme Evans (Principal Horn, Melbourne Symphony Orchestra) +61 3 9318 0690(H), +61 419 880371(B), +61 3 93180893(Fax) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] - Original Message - From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 5:07 PM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] From Beethoven to Brahms Violin Concerto Hi you got me there I've never done that one, all 4 symphony's yes. John ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/graev%40comcen.com.au ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Valve cleaning
William, my mail was not directed towards you, but towards the many people with their intention to do everything by themselves ruin things instead of bettering, just to save a few bucks. This is really insane. Insane does not mean CRAZY or so what but insane in the original meaning of not healthy. Next: Ultrasonic cleaning of the valves every 4 - 8 weeks is NOT necessary by no means. The dark colour on the rotors is not dirt. It is some kind of oxydation or patina, which converts the outer layers of the metal to oxyd. If you can remove that by ultrasonic bath, hallelujah, you are genius. And the green stuff ? It doesn´t come if you water-empty the horn carefully after playing. And, even the micros shaved away from bearrings will losen the axle bearrings if done severaltimes. Or you have to tighten the bearings again by pushing the plate more in. If the bearrings axle are made properly, they should fit forever, if one does not neglect oiling. Summary: I do not understand, why so many people have this corrosion problem with the valves of their horns . Who is to be blamed ? The manufacturer, the repairperson (often some of them relap the valves ruin them !) - or the user ? I think, the user !!! Finally: why should I smear sugar around ones mouth (or ears), if I can say the things the same way as we talk each other as colleagues - in the pit, in the dressing room or on the phone. World is that like not all with velvet, silk sweat smooth. Live is rather rough. I prefer this way, sorry, but I talk the truth, and I do not care if it hurts. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 9:33 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Valve cleaning I'm not entirely sure of the tone of this email... and with all due respect, Hans, I respect your playing, your advice, and respect you a great deal. However, I do believe you are mis-judging a few things about me and what I said... and so let me address these individually. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Valve cleaning
Just a thought to toss out after Prof. Pizka's advice. The tolerance on horn valves is, I believe, much tighter than on automobile engine pistons. Do you really want to experiment on those things in your own home or rather leave it to someone with an established track record in dealing with horn repair. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] w.a. Mozart sonate in c
I have been asked to play an Easter service and received the music yesterday. One of the pieces is the Mozart Samtliche Kirchensonaten III/IV, Sonata in C, KV329 (317a). The first horn part (in F) is more like a trumpet part. Is this played as written or down an octave? My upper register is good but my endurance needs help. I play a Paxman Bb high F which makes it playable, but difficult. If anybody has played this, I would appreciate your suggestions. Thanks, Steve at [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) First horn City Symphony Chicago Second horn Park Ridge Civic Orchestra First and Second horn da Corneto Opera Company Free-lance Chicago Area ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] w.a. Mozart sonate in c
The horns in this sonata must be in C originally as the piece is in C. As there are two trumpets also, the horns were in C (basso) originally. But remember, there are so many musicologue idiots out there (not able to play a single orchestra instrument, but big mouth !), to transcribe the parts to F oversee the fact, that horns go far too high, often exceeding the oboes running unison with the trumpets. These folks have no idea about Mozart style. So these things happen. Play it an octave lower, not because of feeling comfortable, but for the sake of the music. But play your part light weight Mozartian. Good luck for the performance. We had to clear a similar case with Il Seraglio, when Daniel Harding asked all Bb parts being played alto. But I convinced him before the first rehearsal, that just one number should be alto. He had a look into his score bowed in when he realised that the horns should play higher than the oboes or clarinets when in Bb-alto. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 3:45 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] w.a. Mozart sonate in c I have been asked to play an Easter service and received the music yesterday. One of the pieces is the Mozart Samtliche Kirchensonaten III/IV, Sonata in C, KV329 (317a). The first horn part (in F) is more like a trumpet part. Is this played as written or down an octave? My upper register is good but my endurance needs help. I play a Paxman Bb high F which makes it playable, but difficult. If anybody has played this, I would appreciate your suggestions. Thanks, Steve at [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) First horn City Symphony Chicago Second horn Park Ridge Civic Orchestra First and Second horn da Corneto Opera Company Free-lance Chicago Area ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Valve cleaning
The danger of valve disassembly for cleaning is that it exposes the delicate rotor body and interior valve casing to possible accidental damage. Also excessive 'cleaning' of the exterior of the rotor can cause leaking. Another point is that the removable bearing plate is a simple friction-fit to the casing - frequent removal and re-install will eventually cause the fit to loosen. The small screws that attach the bumper-plate, and the swing arm are also delicate and can easily be broken or lost. When valves become sluggish, I suggest just pouring about a teaspoon of light weight valve oil (or unscented lamp oil) into the leadpipe and turn the horn so the oil reaches all the rotors. Then just empty the oil the same way as emptying water. Several treatments might be needed, but this is still much quicker and safer than disassembly of the rotors. I find it useful to clean the interior of the leadpipe with a small cloth patch and a 'pull-thru' every month or so - be ready to catch the goo that comes out - you will probably be surprised Jay Kosta Endwell NY Amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] w.a. Mozart sonate in c
Thank you, very much for the advice and the quick response! I'm feeling better now. Steve ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Valve cleaning
Perfect Jay, perfect ! But why not inserting the oil through the first valve slide ? It is a shorter run. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jay Kosta Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 4:00 PM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Valve cleaning The danger of valve disassembly for cleaning is that it exposes the delicate rotor body and interior valve casing to possible accidental damage. Also excessive 'cleaning' of the exterior of the rotor can cause leaking. Another point is that the removable bearing plate is a simple friction-fit to the casing - frequent removal and re-install will eventually cause the fit to loosen. The small screws that attach the bumper-plate, and the swing arm are also delicate and can easily be broken or lost. When valves become sluggish, I suggest just pouring about a teaspoon of light weight valve oil (or unscented lamp oil) into the leadpipe and turn the horn so the oil reaches all the rotors. Then just empty the oil the same way as emptying water. Several treatments might be needed, but this is still much quicker and safer than disassembly of the rotors. I find it useful to clean the interior of the leadpipe with a small cloth patch and a 'pull-thru' every month or so - be ready to catch the goo that comes out - you will probably be surprised Jay Kosta Endwell NY Amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] re: Beauty and the Beast performances
William, The First and Second horn parts work in tandum as the main two horns. The Third horn book splits its attention between actting as 3rd trumpet and as another trombone. Several spots to be concerend about- in the Beast's solo before the end of the first act, the three horns play little snipets of a chorale in between the soloists phrases. Choose wisely which parts you play, wouldn't want a whole bunch of fiths and no thirds. Also, at the end of the Third act; the third horn has several solos. I can't really describe those solos here, but rest assured that one of them is a complete solo. I just got done playing this three hour show last month. I did it's whole 2 month run; take care of your face. Mike Rogers ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Where's Bruce?
Hello horn list folks- Does anyone have an e-mail address for Bruce Gifford? Please e-mail me privately at [EMAIL PROTECTED] if you have this information. Thank you. Jill Wilson Associate Principal/3rd horn, Memphis Symphony Instructor, University of Mississippi ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Brahms und Mozart
Graeme E let us know how many horns play in Brahms' concerto: 4 in the Brahms fiddle concerto ( 2nd movt. only 1 2 from memory) *** I'm curious, Graeme, do you have any idea why Brahms wanted horns 12 to play from memory in this movement? Und Hans P was giving Antwort about whether to transpose to C basso or to C alto in the Mozart sonate in C: The horns in this sonata must be in C originally as the piece is in C. As there are two trumpets also, the horns were in C (basso) originally. But remember, there are so many musicologue idiots out there (not able to play a single orchestra instrument, but big mouth !), to transcribe the parts to F oversee the fact, that horns go far too high, often exceeding the oboes running unison with the trumpets. These folks have no idea about Mozart style. So these things happen. * So, if you have any doubts which transposition is called for, wait until just before the first downbeat, then ask your conductor if he (or she) is a musicological idiot. gotta go, Cabbage ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] New spam?
Who can believe it? I just received an email telling me that I've won 2 million Euros in a lottery I didn't enter. Could this possibly be another scheme to bilk ordinary people into sending money for free to a boiler room project? All who believe this is true and on the Up and Up, raise your hands! Paul Mansur, who definitely was not born yesterday nor did I just fall off the turnip truck. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Brahms und Mozart
Graeme E let us know how many horns play in Brahms' concerto: 4 in the Brahms fiddle concerto ( 2nd movt. only 1 2 from memory) *** I'm curious, Graeme, do you have any idea why Brahms wanted horns 12 to play from memory in this movement? Nice to see Cabbage still in top form!! Cheers, Graeme Evans (Principal Horn, Melbourne Symphony Orchestra) +61 3 9318 0690(H), +61 419 880371(B), +61 3 93180893(Fax) E-mail: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] My first Acid cleaning of valves
William writes, Of course the acid was diluted :) If you use Muriatic, it's usually diluted to 33.3% down to 20% HCl. It would be best to dilute it down even further. If the fumes are so strong they make you cough and choke, that's overkill (in many ways). Take the hardware store stuff and dilute it about half and half. Remember, do as you oughter, add acid to water . Keep any acid in an air-tight container. Lemon juice, toilet bowl cleaner, vinegar etc. are acids too, so they're essentially the same deal. The newer Yamaha horns have hollow rotors which can really mess up your informed plans if you're acid dipping rotors. There's a small hole both in the top and bottom of each rotor and the rotor can fill up with your acid solution as it soaks. Then when you put it back in the horn, the acid leaks out little by little right into the bearings and siezes everything up in a big beautiful bright green festival of color. Also note that baking soda doesn't always do the trick. Look a few weeks later and you might still see that lovely green effect. I'd certainly not put any abrasive pumice, Brasso, construction sand etc. into my valves. Getting it back out is the problem. Leave just a trace and you'll continue to grind away every time you play high G#. Which reminds me, the major manufacturers are STILL leaving handfuls of abrasive crap in their new horns. Dammit! More work for me! - Steve Mumford ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] IHS2005 Small Horn Ensembles?
Greetings - I looked at the IHS2005 web site, but didn't see information about small reading ensembles. Does anyone know who's in charge of organizing these sessions or have any information at all about them? Thanks, Carlberg Carlberg Jones Guanajuato, Gto. MEXICO ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Valve cleaning
Hello Hans, I suggest inserting the oil throught the leadpipe because that is the easiest and most safe way. Sometimes removing the 1st valve slide can be ackward, for example if the valves suddenly become slow just before a rehearsal or at a performance. Oiling through the valve slide is fine, but requires a little more concentration and can be done best when a proper 'work surface' is available to hold the oil, slide, horn body, etc. Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards ... Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player -- hans at pizka.de wrote: Perfect Jay, perfect ! But why not inserting the oil through the first valve slide ? It is a shorter run. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] New spam?
definitely -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Mansur Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 10:34 PM To: Memphis Hornlist; [EMAIL PROTECTED]; Hornlist horn@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Hornlist] New spam? Who can believe it? I just received an email telling me that I've won 2 million Euros in a lottery I didn't enter. Could this possibly be another scheme to bilk ordinary people into sending money for free to a boiler room project? All who believe this is true and on the Up and Up, raise your hands! Paul Mansur, who definitely was not born yesterday nor did I just fall off the turnip truck. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Valve cleaning
I don't agree entirely. Someone told me once that that was a good idea. However why oil the whole horn when only the valves need it? I know that when I tried inserting oil into the leadpipe it made the condensation in my horn that much more difficult to remove. It could be that I have different saliva or something, but at any rate that method doesn't work for me. -William In a message dated 3/13/2005 5:29:13 P.M. Central Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Hello Hans, I suggest inserting the oil throught the leadpipe because that is the easiest and most safe way. Sometimes removing the 1st valve slide can be ackward, for example if the valves suddenly become slow just before a rehearsal or at a performance. Oiling through the valve slide is fine, but requires a little more concentration and can be done best when a proper 'work surface' is available to hold the oil, slide, horn body, etc. Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards ... Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] Valve cleaning
Just before the rehearsal (when sitting on place allready) would be too late definitely. I had a concert with a semi-pro orchestra few years ago. Interesting, most interesting for me was the fact, when the players appeared to the rehearsal, most interesting. They just arrived between 3 - 5 minutes before the beginning of the rehearsal, in contrary to most professional players, who arrive 15 - 30 minutes before the beginning. And we had talks about warm-up here on the list. Jay, oiling should be done on regular (long) intervals, but not when sitting in the orchestra, where oiling is an awkward task definitely, but how about doing it when unpacking the horn on the table. One grip, slide out, oil in a bit movement with the valves a bit shaking the horn back forth, Slide in, oil can closed, excess oil out of tuning slide. Things will work. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of J. Kosta Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 12:26 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: [Hornlist] Valve cleaning Hello Hans, I suggest inserting the oil throught the leadpipe because that is the easiest and most safe way. Sometimes removing the 1st valve slide can be ackward, for example if the valves suddenly become slow just before a rehearsal or at a performance. Oiling through the valve slide is fine, but requires a little more concentration and can be done best when a proper 'work surface' is available to hold the oil, slide, horn body, etc. Mit freundlichen Grüßen / Best regards ... Jay Kosta Endwell NY amateur player -- hans at pizka.de wrote: Perfect Jay, perfect ! But why not inserting the oil through the first valve slide ? It is a shorter run. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] fixed bell and airlines
hey listers! Those of you who have fixed bell horns, what do you do when you fly? Do you check it and hope for the best. Do you take your chances getting it on the plane, knowing it might not work? I am in the market for a horn, and I'd like to look at horns with fixed bells, but I also need to fly with the horn. What's your guys advice? tom hunt * NOTE: An attachment named winmail.dat was deleted from this message because it contained a windows executableor other potentially dangerous file type.Contact the system administrator for more information.--_=_NextPart_001_01C5284B.A1F91046-- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] fixed bell and airlines
If possible, book a window seat. Put the flat part under the seat in front of you, hide the bell with your feet. Even better if you have a coat to put over it. If you're flying southwest, check in early so you can get a window seat. Most flight attendants just don't want to bother with making you get back off the plane to check it, etc, even if it isn't 100% FAA OK. The window seat makes it where no one would have to climb over your horn in an emergency. Don't get the emergency exit row. This will upset them. Some planes have closets that you put coats in; the bottom is usually empty and perfect for horns. Most importantly, act like carrying the thing onto the plane is natural and common. Smile, etc. I have a fixed bell horn in a Johnson case. I could check it without being really scared. If you worry about whatever your horn is in, look into Walt Johnson's cases. I once flew on an airline that did make me gate check it, and it was fine. I don't fly on them anymore, and no one else has ever given any trouble about the horn. Good luck. Shane McLaughlin 2nd, Knoxville ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] fixed bell and airlines
when you get to the security check, doesnt everything have to fit through the scanner? I would think that would be the place you get hassled. You are saying that is not the case? thanks for your response tom hunt -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] on behalf of Shane McLaughlin Sent: Sun 3/13/2005 10:22 PM To: The Horn List Cc: Subject:Re: [Hornlist] fixed bell and airlines If possible, book a window seat. Put the flat part under the seat in front of you, hide the bell with your feet. Even better if you have a coat to put over it. If you're flying southwest, check in early so you can get a window seat. Most flight attendants just don't want to bother with making you get back off the plane to check it, etc, even if it isn't 100% FAA OK. The window seat makes it where no one would have to climb over your horn in an emergency. Don't get the emergency exit row. This will upset them. Some planes have closets that you put coats in; the bottom is usually empty and perfect for horns. Most importantly, act like carrying the thing onto the plane is natural and common. Smile, etc. I have a fixed bell horn in a Johnson case. I could check it without being really scared. If you worry about whatever your horn is in, look into Walt Johnson's cases. I once flew on an airline that did make me gate check it, and it was fine. I don't fly on them anymore, and no one else has ever given any trouble about the horn. Good luck. Shane McLaughlin 2nd, Knoxville ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/huntt%40waldorf.edu ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] fixed bell and airlines
It's pretty risky. My horn bell was damaged very badly on a Chicago flight to the Midwest Clinic two years ago. The entire side of the horn rim was bent up...Definitely not a welcoming surprise when I went to play on it when I came home. I'd recommend getting a titanium case made ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] fixed bell and airlines
Don't check it! Get those letters from the AFM (musician's union) that outline the agreement between the Dept of Transportation and the unions as to carrying instruments on board. There are two of them, one from the DOT and the other from the Union, and they should be available on the union site. Fred - Original Message - From: Hunt,Thomas [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Sunday, March 13, 2005 8:09 PM Subject: [Hornlist] fixed bell and airlines hey listers! Those of you who have fixed bell horns, what do you do when you fly? Do you check it and hope for the best. Do you take your chances getting it on the plane, knowing it might not work? I am in the market for a horn, and I'd like to look at horns with fixed bells, but I also need to fly with the horn. What's your guys advice? tom hunt * NOTE: An attachment named winmail.dat was deleted from this message because it contained a windows executableor other potentially dangerous file type.Contact the system administrator for more information.--_=_NextPart_001_01C5284B.A1F91046-- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/fbaucom%40sbcglobal.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] fixed bell and airlines
It is not the strength of the case, which will protect the horn only. Most damage comes from impact. Impact is more on the valve section ist weight will bend the tubesd running to and from the valve section. This would mean a heavy bill from the repairman. To prevent this, you should squeeze a few moss rupper pieces of 2 x 2 between inside the bottom of the case the tubes running to from the valve section, also between slides main tube perhaps flat below the valve tubes. As an impact can occur even you transport the horn in the trunk (no matter if the bell is detached or not) of your car, this support helps to prevent damage. Bell damage occurs often if the horn can move in ist case. Nevertheless, insist that you carry the horn on board as you need this instrument for next days performance, insist that the supervisor is called if you get troubble. It worked for me the few times I got troubble. It is not the check-in personal nor the flight attendance to blame, but the people handling the luggage the luggage-destroying-machines. === -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, March 14, 2005 5:32 AM To: horn@music.memphis.edu Subject: Re: [Hornlist] fixed bell and airlines It's pretty risky. My horn bell was damaged very badly on a Chicago flight to the Midwest Clinic two years ago. The entire side of the horn rim was bent up...Definitely not a welcoming surprise when I went to play on it when I came home. I'd recommend getting a titanium case made ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.d e ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] fixed bell and airlines
The suggestion to get a titanium case built was a sarcastic suggestion, I was just letting him know what had happened to my horn. At least I now know how a horn can be damaged within the case...Thanks Hans Pizka ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
