RE: [Hornlist] range problems

[hans]

There is no pulling, no "lifting" (pulling all over the
face). The less movement in your face you can see when
looking into the mirror THE BETTER.

The vibrating muscle is is not pulled thin or tight for
playing high notes. The vibrating muscle is SHORTENED by
TENSION or CONCENTRATION, which can be achieved much better
by THICKENING the muscle (cushion effect, which is also very
helpful against mouth piece pressure) than by stretching via
Corner action. Dr.Farkas speaks of the typical "Brass player
face or mask" or making a "serious face".  


===

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Julia Hencken
Sent: Saturday, April 09, 2005 1:23 AM
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] range problems



>From: "Jay Kosta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Reply-To: The Horn List 
>To: horn@music.memphis.edu
>Subject: [Hornlist] range problems
>Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:20:51 -0400 (EDT)
>
>I have a related question for those with a good high range
-
>
>When you tighten your lips (embouchure), is there a
particular 'direction'
>in which you feel (or imagine) the corners of your mouth
pulling ?
>
>For example, does the tightening of the corners feel
directed -
>- straight downward
>- directly inward
>- directly backward
>- downward and inward towards the neck, back of jaw
>- etc.
>
>How do you describe where the 'pull' is aimed ?
>
>If you have another way to explain the proper feeling of
the 'pull', 
>please tell me about it.
>
>Jay Kosta
>Endwell NY
>amateur player
>


I second that question!

JH


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Re: [Hornlist] range problems

[David Goldberg]

In addition to the advice already given, I suggest that Julia may have
damaged her lip severely enough so that a few days of rest is not enough
for it to heal.  If so, then nothing will help before she has adequate
recuperation time, which might be a week or two of no playing.  How else
to explain losing the upper register in a relatively short time - a half
hour - and not regaining any upper register facility for the rest of the
day?  Doesn't that sound like a damaged muscle?

{  David Goldberg:  [EMAIL PROTECTED]  }
{ Math Dept, Washtenaw Community College }
 { Ann Arbor Michigan }

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RE: [Hornlist] range problems

[G]

Hi,

I'm betting that you're going to get as many different
answers as there are players.

You can answer this question for yourself by trying
the following:

Play a third-space C, and while you're holding the
long tone with a good sound, gradually start to pull
the horn away from your face while keeping the pitch
steady. It will become immediately apparent to you as
to what you have to do to your embouchure to keep the
pitch steady.

Gary

--- Julia Hencken <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> 
> >From: "Jay Kosta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> >Reply-To: The Horn List 
> >To: horn@music.memphis.edu
> >Subject: [Hornlist] range problems
> >Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:20:51 -0400 (EDT)
> >
> >I have a related question for those with a good
> high range -
> >
> >When you tighten your lips (embouchure), is there a
> particular 'direction'
> >in which you feel (or imagine) the corners of your
> mouth pulling ? etc...
> >


Get Firefox!!http://www.mozilla.org/products/firefox/central.html
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RE: [Hornlist] Philip Myers Masterclass and Performance

[Steve Freides]

On the subject of Phil Meyers, he'll be in my town of Ridgewood, NJ, the
first weekend in May as featured soloist with the Ridgewood Concert Band.
Tickets are only $20.

The Ridgewood Concert Band is as good as I've ever heard amateurs play, and
better than many professional ensembles.  If you're in NYC or environs, it
might just be worth the time to take the short train ride out here to
suburbia.  We're about 10 miles from the GW Bridge into Manhattan and the
train station is a short cab ride to the concert venue.  Link below:

http://www.ridgewoodband.org/Upcoming.htm

The conductor, Chris, is my son's and my horn teacher as well and has helped
us both make a lot of progress this year.  Link below:

http://www.ridgewoodband.org/MusicDirector.htm

-S-


> -Original Message-
> From: 
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> du] On Behalf Of Alex
> Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 6:27 PM
> To: horn@music.memphis.edu
> Subject: [Hornlist] Philip Myers Masterclass and Performance
> 
> Hello hornlisters,
> 
>  
> 
> Philip Myers (principal horn NY Phil) will be visiting the 
> San Francisco Bay Area in April.  He will be giving a 
> masterclass at the San Francisco Conservatory and performing 
> in the Monterey area.  Here are the details:
> 
>  
> 
> Masterclass:
> 
> Date:  April 27th
> 
> Time:  1:00pm - 2:30pm
> 
> Place:  San Francisco Conservatory, Hellman Hall
> 
> Cost:  Free and open to the public
> 
> Directions, etc:  www.sfcm.edu  
> 
> The Conservatory online calendar does not yet list this event.
> 
>  
> 
> Performance:
> 
> Date:  April 30th
> 
> Time:  8:00pm
> 
> Place:  Pacific Grove First United Methodist Church
> 
> Directions, tickets, etc:  visit www.montereysymphony.org 
>   then click special events
> 
>  
> 
> Alex Camphouse
> 
> Principal horn Monterey & Stockton Symphonies
> 
> Quadre Horn Quartet
> 
>  
> 
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RE: [Hornlist] range problems

[Julia Hencken]

From: "Jay Kosta" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Reply-To: The Horn List 
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Subject: [Hornlist] range problems
Date: Fri, 8 Apr 2005 11:20:51 -0400 (EDT)
I have a related question for those with a good high range -
When you tighten your lips (embouchure), is there a particular 'direction'
in which you feel (or imagine) the corners of your mouth pulling ?
For example, does the tightening of the corners feel directed -
- straight downward
- directly inward
- directly backward
- downward and inward towards the neck, back of jaw
- etc.
How do you describe where the 'pull' is aimed ?
If you have another way to explain the proper feeling of the 'pull',
please tell me about it.
Jay Kosta
Endwell NY
amateur player

I second that question!
JH
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[Hornlist] Philip Myers Masterclass and Performance

[Alex]

Hello hornlisters,

 

Philip Myers (principal horn NY Phil) will be visiting the San Francisco Bay
Area in April.  He will be giving a masterclass at the San Francisco
Conservatory and performing in the Monterey area.  Here are the details:

 

Masterclass:

Date:  April 27th

Time:  1:00pm - 2:30pm

Place:  San Francisco Conservatory, Hellman Hall

Cost:  Free and open to the public

Directions, etc:  www.sfcm.edu  

The Conservatory online calendar does not yet list this event.

 

Performance:

Date:  April 30th

Time:  8:00pm

Place:  Pacific Grove First United Methodist Church

Directions, tickets, etc:  visit www.montereysymphony.org
  then click special events

 

Alex Camphouse

Principal horn Monterey & Stockton Symphonies

Quadre Horn Quartet

 

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RE: [Hornlist] re: CSO

[Simon Twigge]

I think you also meant the Philharmonia not the London Phil(harmonic
Orchestra) which is a different orchestra that neither Richard nor Sinopoli
has had any involvement with. Richard's thoughts could have also had
something to do with Sinopoli indulging so much that I think he added about
an extra 20 minutes to the playing time by the end of the tour - that would
kill Mahler 1 for anyone I think - let alone the lip!

I do appreciate that a month's long tour can be hell, but I think these days
orchestras know they're putting on a performance in every respect - the same
way we don't react to mistakes on stage: we consider it to be unprofessional
to laugh at a mistake in either rehearsals or in concerts let alone pull a
face for making one. We might also want to show the audience some respect by
graciously accepting their applause and also appearing to be enjoying their
accolade. This seems to be the norm with British orchestras now and most
visiting orchestras I've seen.

When I was student we had lessons in stage deportment (yes the RAM did call
it that) before solo recitals, etiquette before Royal concerts and courses
were also offered by the actors Prue Scales (Sybil - Mrs Fawlty in Fawlty
Towers) & her husband Tim West in performance/stage skills/craft. All of
this was to focus your attention on the image you put across and also what
is expected of you on stage, from which buttons to have done up when walking
on a platform to how to shake hands. It sounds odd but it does look awful
(unprofessional) when performers don't know how to behave on stage and look
uncomfortable - I think it's rude not show to the paying public that you
appreciate them.

The CSO is without doubt a wonderful orchestra, I was extremely impressed by
their playing and moved by elements of Barenboim's reading of my favourite
Mahler symphony. I was merely surprised, as I'm not used to seeing an
orchestra look generally so hacked off these days especially when receiving
such an enthusiastic reception. 

Thanks to you all for your input and thoughts.

Simon 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: 08 April 2005 06:22
To: 'The Horn List'
Subject: RE: [Hornlist] re: CSO


The conductors name was "Sinopoli". Yes , orchestras become exhausted during
long tours. Something goes wrong with flight, bus, hotel, etc.  The parties
every day . The hotel bar .. Nothing strange, just regular .


 

-Original Message-
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, April 08, 2005 1:05 AM
To: horn@music.memphis.edu
Subject: [Hornlist] re: CSO

I don't know why the CSO should have reacted like that.
They are such a truly great orchestra.  Maybe it's like what Richard Watkins
told me once about playing Mahler 1 ten days in a row for Sinapolli with the
London Phil.

   He said it was one of the most trying, difficult tours he ever made.
Everyone was just exhausted from all that playing and emotion every night.

   You'd think the CSO players would be used to it, but it could be the same
type of thing.

Just my two won...

William Lynn ___
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Re: [Hornlist] Old wine in new bottles

[Paul Mansur]

On Friday, April 8, 2005, at 03:21 PM, Paul Kampen wrote:
Dear All
This reminds me that the youth orchestra in one of Britain's biggest 
cities
currently has too many horn and bassoon players but is short of 
clarinets
and flutes.

Is this a record?
Regards
Paul A. Kampen (W. Yorks UK)
It may not be a record; but it is certainly unusual.  The real problem 
is that you don't have enough marching bands in your public high 
schools.

Paul Mansur  Chattanooga
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Re: [Hornlist] Old wine in new bottles

[Paul Kampen]

Message text written by The Horn List
> Unfortunately we had to  abandon 
it when one of our bassoonists very selfishly left us to go to  university 
followed soon afterwards by other key members of the group despite my 
efforts to 
sabotage their 'A' level results.<

Dear All

This reminds me that the youth orchestra in one of Britain's biggest cities
currently has too many horn and bassoon players but is short of clarinets
and flutes.

Is this a record?

Regards

Paul A. Kampen (W. Yorks UK)
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[Hornlist] scioperi

[Daniel Canarutto]

Hello friends.
Today, strikes are no more so common and easy in Italy, things have 
changed a lot; however (notwithstanding the nice cases) we have not 
improved our general efficiency so much.

Daniel
--
Daniel Canarutto
mathematical physicist & dedicated amateur hornist
http://www.dma.unifi.it/~canarutto/  (professional home page)
http://www.corno.it  (Il Club del Corno)
http://www.amadeusorchestra.org  (orchestra Amadeus - Firenze)
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[Hornlist] range problems

[Jay Kosta]

I have a related question for those with a good high range -

When you tighten your lips (embouchure), is there a particular 'direction'
in which you feel (or imagine) the corners of your mouth pulling ?

For example, does the tightening of the corners feel directed -
- straight downward
- directly inward
- directly backward
- downward and inward towards the neck, back of jaw
- etc.

How do you describe where the 'pull' is aimed ?

If you have another way to explain the proper feeling of the 'pull',
please tell me about it.

Jay Kosta
Endwell NY
amateur player

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RE: [Hornlist] range problems

[Jonathan West]

Julia,

Hans's comments sound right to me.

I'll supplement them by saying that if you are tiring so quickly and finding
the upper range so unreliable, there is definitely something wrong with the
way you are managing the embouchure. A bad habit of some kind must have
crept in.

I'll add some more questions to those Hans asked:

1. Do you find yourself tensing your throat when attempting high notes?

2. Do you find yourself clenching your jaw when attempting high notes?

3. After playing high notes for a while, does a depression or red ring
appear on your lips where the mouthpiece was?

A "yes" to #1 indicates that you are clenching the throat and restricting
the airflow, with the inevitable effect that you lose control. The solution
is to make a conscious effort to relax your throat and support the air
column from your diaphragm instead. I saw this a while ago in a horn player
on an orchestral course I attended some time ago. His muscles were all
tensed up and consequently the tone in his upper range sounded like a
strangled cow. I pointed out the problem to him and the improvement in his
sound was immediate, and further improved over the following days as he got
used to the new way of playing.

A "yes" to #2 indicates a similar problem to #1. Make a conscious effort to
reduce tension there and provide more air support from below.

A "yes" to #3 indicates you may be using too much pressure on the
mouthpiece, and not enough air support.

In any of these cases, you need to first to get your instructor to confirm
the source of the problem. He can see the state of your muscles, I can't.

Assuming that one of these three problems is the cause, I would recommend
exercising as follows, once you have warmed up

- Start out by playing some long notes on second-space C. Each note should
have a long crescendo and diminuendo. The aim here is to get used to the
feel of providing adequate air support and reducing pressure and/or muscle
tension, and being able to handle this over a wide dynamic range.

- Once you have done that for a few days, instead of doing long notes on C,
take a long breath and do a crescendo and diminuendo lip-slurring slowly
backwards and forwards between C and D. Try very hard to minimise the
additional tension in the lips and do as much as possible by increasing the
diaphragm support to move upwards from C to D. Keep yourself aware of the
sensations of the necessary muscle tensions particularly for the air
support.

- Once you are confident doing C-D-C slurs, try C-D-E-D-C slurs. Every few
days, add one more note to the range until you are at G. Eventually, you can
use the same technique (using fingerings where necessary) to take your range
all the way to high C.

- Once you have slurs sorted, you can then try making tongued entries on the
high notes. Get the note in your mind, ensure that you have the necessary
air support to play the note, and then tongue it as gently as possible. The
tongue should merely be releasing the air column which is already there.
Play each note for 5 seconds, take a five second rest, then play the next
one up. Concentrate all the time on two things. Have a mental picture of the
note you are about to play, and keep in mind the air support and relaxed
embouchure necessary to play it.

When doing all this, stop and do some low-register practice whenever you
start feeling tired and losing control. Push yourself a little into the
fatigue zone but don't overdo it, otherwise you will start slipping into old
bad habits again. They key to this is that you become aware of how to do
this right, that you remain aware of it while you are practicing, and that
you spend your time practicing how to get it right.

Its not enough just to do high-range exercises in the hope that it will all
somehow get better without first understanding the cause of the problem and
what needs to be changed to fix it.

Regards
Jonathan West

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Re: [Hornlist] range problems

[Paul Mansur]

On Thursday, April 7, 2005, at 06:39 PM, Julia Hencken wrote:
 It's to the point where I just don't know what to do about it
anymore because I'm becoming more and more uncomfortable as I play 
with my increasing unreliability in that register.  Any advice and or 
ideas as to what could be the problem would be wonderful.  Thank you!

Julia
Possibly it means you should work on your low register.  Can you play 
the pedal C?  If not, spend some daily time on the low register.  Down 
there you can relax the tension in your embouchure; yet learn how that 
there must be a certain degree of firmness in your lips.  You use lots 
of air, you learn focussing on pitch, you develop the way you project 
the sound, you learn dynamic control at all pitch levels and you don't 
worry about getting to high "q".   Much of what you work on will 
transfer to the problem of pitch production and projection in the 
stratosphere.  Many horn players will tell you that they did not 
acquire a high register until after they learned to play low.  For many 
reasons, it works for most players.

CORdially, Paul Mansur
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[Hornlist] MHR - Rome This Week

[Bill Gross]

Kind of a tangent to the discussion earlier about the odd strikes that pop
up in Italy from time to time.  It appears from reports in the popular press
that Rome has managed quite a feat.  I think it's fair to assume they did
some planning for the death of the Pope, but I'm not sure that anyone
realized the scope of people who would try to get into the city for today's
events.  Either the Roman government and the Italian government had some
very astute planners or they reaction time once the scope of things was
realized was amazing.

I recently retired from municipal government in a large US city.  I ran the
emergency management shop and from my experience getting things done, I'm
not sure we could have done it as well.


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