[Hornlist] RE: Leadpipes
One thing I have learned for certain in this business is that there are no definites. One man's trash is sometimes another man's treasure - and the same is true for leadpipes. The only way to tell for certain if a pipe (by ANY maker) is going to be better for your horn is to try it. All the claims by makers and players about the way certain pipes play refer only to THAT players experience (or THAT maker's claim). Sincerely Ken Pope "Just Put Your Lips Together And Blow" http://www.poperepair.com US Dealer: Kuhn Horns & Bonna Cases Pope Instrument Repair 80 Wenham Street Jamaica Plain, MA 02130 617-522-0532 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Lead pipes for Conn 8D
This discussion of pipes has been enlightening. I've just purchased a 700k series 8D, which has a Lawson leadpipe, from Dennis Houghton's shop in Texas. Coincidentally, while I was trying this horn, a friend asked me to render a second opinion on a new horn (Kruspe-wrap) he had on trial. While the 8d has no bad notes, everything slotting extremely well and in tune (the low range is a little difficult to open up, however), this other horn (which was not inexpensive) had real problems above the staff, and the written A up there was very, very slippery. Have to think, in light of this discussion, this is likely due to a deficient leadpipe. Fred On 11/28/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > I'm curious to know what your criteria is for judging a leadpipe? What > would you consider that makes a certain pipe better, not > just different? I make > pipes that have a better scale and respond quicker, especially on the Bb > horn, on a Conn 8D, any Conn 8D. Would folks consider that better or > just > different? You mention "a good original one." Walter, myself and others > knew > early on that Conn leadpipes, as with most makes, were inconsistent. I > remember > trying a dozen, new, Elkhart 8D's at a time back in the '60's and all > would > play differently. There would be maybe 1 or 2 "good" ones in the > batch. I > went to the factory once in Elkhart to pick out a new pipe for a 300,000 > series > I had that had been damaged in a car wreck, played 40 pipes that day and > they were all different. I never did find one that made that horn play > as well > as the original one did before it was totaled. Walter figured out a few > years later that this was due to sloppy cutting of the small > end. I don't know > if anyone before Walter had even thought about that. He was, and I am, > very > conscious of the quality control of our pipes. Our designs are unique > and > there are many 8D's, as well as other makes, with Lawson pipes on them > which > are used daily by all sorts of players who are happy with > their results. I > don't think those folks would have switched pipes if they did not think > the > change was for the better. I also have spectrum analysis data from > computer > testing that shows how various changes in leadpipe tapers affect the > instrument, > both in terms of intonation and response. > > I know you didn't call any names, but I couldn't pass up the chance > here for > some free advertising! > > Thanks! > > Kendall Betts > > Steven Mumford [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > ) > wrote: > > Anyone who is getting a new leadpipe for their 8D, please send the old > original one to me!!! I won't call any names, but I've had quite a few > of the > custom pipes come through here and I haven't seen any yet that were > better than > a good original one. Different, yes. Better, no. > > - Steve Mumford > > > > > > > > **Check out AOL's list of 2007's > hottest > products. > (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/fbaucom%40gmail.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Re: Horn Digest, Vol 59, Issue 34
Kendall wrote: Conn leadpipes, as with most makes, were inconsistent. I remember trying a dozen, new, Elkhart 8D's at a time back in the '60's and all would play differently. There would be maybe 1 or 2 "good" ones in the batch. I went to the factory once in Elkhart to pick out a new pipe for a 300,000 seriesI had that had been damaged in a car wreck, played 40 pipes that day and they were all different. This was also my experience. In about 1955 I spent a day at Conn in Elkhart picking out a different leadpipe for my 300,000 series 8D and all were different. They even had one pipe there on which one simply couldn't play one or two notes stably -- I think one may have been the F below the staff. They were trying to figure out why, in an effort to improve their pipes. I ended up with a very good pipe (still on the horn) which made the high A and Ab better in tune than the original, and also improved the focus of the sound. I've tried a few other leadpipes since, but prefer the one I found then -- the pipes I've tried that improved the high register a bit also tightened up the sound more than I liked Chris Earnest ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Lead pipes for horns -- repair or replace?
Hi All, Many years ago, when I was a 'wee horn-playing lass', I had a Holton 179, which was a total dog. However, it was dramatically improved and made into a really fine horn by putting a Lawson FB-210 (if memory serves--it was many years ago) lead pipe on it. Of course it had a valve rebuild too. Currently I have a high school student who has a 179 that is the same vintage as mine was, has had no significant work done on it, and plays better than any Holton I've ever played. The lesson here is that the same model horns, manufactured at the same time, can play amazingly different. A friend of mine has a wonderful Berlin Schmidt horn, which plays like a dream, but you should see the lead pipe on it!!! It's obviously been bent several times, and has been pieced together from at least two other lead pipes. But it works. Eva. [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Re: Lead pipes for Conn 8D
Kendall brings up a great point which is a pet peeve of mine, namely the small end of the leadpipe. I have seen such inconsistent treatments of this part of the pipe from manufacturers that it is scary. I tried a new model horn from a major manufacturer at an IHS Symposium several years back. There were three of that model on the table, one with cut bell and two with fixed bell.?They all played differently, and the technician from the factory told me they were still trying to figure out why the cut bell horn played so much better than the other two. It only took me a couple seconds to figure that one out, as I noted my mouthpiece going into the pipe to three completely different, noticeably different, depths. Not one of those horns had the same pipe on as the others. Of course they were all going to play differently! I don't understand how they can treat such a critically important part of the instrument as the mouthpipe so cavalierly. That's one of the important differences between a custom-made professional horn and a factory-made professional horn - attention to critical details. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 11:28 pm Subject: [Hornlist] Re: Lead pipes for Conn 8D I'm curious to know what your criteria is for judging a leadpipe? What would you consider that makes a certain pipe better, not just different? I make pipes that have a better scale and respond quicker, especially on the Bb horn, on a Conn 8D, any Conn 8D. Would folks consider that better or just different? You mention "a good original one." Walter, myself and others knew early on that Conn leadpipes, as with most makes, were inconsistent. I remember trying a dozen, new, Elkhart 8D's at a time back in the '60's and all would play differently. There would be maybe 1 or 2 "good" ones in the batch. I went to the factory once in Elkhart to pick out a new pipe for a 300,000 series I had that had been damaged in a car wreck, played 40 pipes that day and they were all different. I never did find one that made that horn play as well as the original one did before it was totaled. Walter figured out a few years later that this was due to sloppy cutting of the small end. I don't know if anyone before Walter had even thought about that. He was, and I am, very conscious of the quality control of our pipes. Our designs are unique and there are many 8D's, as well as other makes, with Lawson pipes on them which are used daily by all sorts of players who are happy with their results. I don't think those folks would have switched pipes if they did not think the change was for the better. I also have spectrum analysis data from computer testing that shows how various changes in leadpipe tapers affect the instrument, both in terms of intonation and response. I know you didn't call any names, but I couldn't pass up the chance here for some free advertising! Thanks! Kendall Betts Steven Mumford [EMAIL PROTECTED] (mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]) wrote: Anyone who is getting a new leadpipe for their 8D, please send the old original one to me!!! I won't call any names, but I've had quite a few of the custom pipes come through here and I haven't seen any yet that were better than a good original one. Different, yes. Better, no. - Steve Mumford **Check out AOL's list of 2007's hottest products. (http://money.aol.com/special/hot-products-2007?NCID=aoltop000301) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/brassartsunlim%40aol.com More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp000503 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Lead pipes for horns -- repair or replace?
Valerie, my experience with repairing damaged pipes is that you can make it better, or you can make it worse. A small dent is usually fixed easily because the tubing is simply 'pushed in' at that point and can be 'pushed out' with dent balls. Worse is when the pipe is bent. Then you have an oval profile in the tube which cannot easily be removed, especially by straightening the tube to its original curvature. More often than not a bent pipe which plays poorly should be replaced. The results of a repair are unpredictable and only add to the likely cost of fixing the problem. Sometimes bent pipes play just fine, in which case I say leave it alone until you need to replace it for other reasons. It's a difficult decision because your have to factor in both cost and the performance of the part. Decide what is most important to you and talk to your repair technician about the options. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited -Original Message- From: Valerie WELLS <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: horn1 list Sent: Wed, 28 Nov 2007 2:53 pm Subject: [Hornlist] Lead pipes for horns -- repair or replace? I can't comment on which lead pipe is best for a Conn 8D. But I can comment on how important a leadpipe in good condition is compared to a damaged leadpipe. I recently had the opportunity to play on a Holton 104, the Tuckwell horn, that has two interchangeable leadpipes. One of the lead pipes was slightly bent. I tried this horn with both its damaged leadpipe and an undamaged leadpipe of the same size from another Holton 104. The difference was significant. I had a very difficult time getting the upper register to speak with the damaged leadpipe, but had NO difficulty getting the the upper register to speak w/ the undamaged leadpipe of the same size. So based on my puny limited experience, I believe that replacing or repairing (?), a damaged leadpipe should be a top priority for any horn player. This experience causes me to marvel at the ability to manufacture perfectly fitting interchangeble parts for a fine instrument. But, most importantly, this experience makes me wonder: Can a damaged horn leadpipe be repaired & restored to its original glory or is it best to replace it? Valerie___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/brassartsunlim%40aol.com More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://o.aolcdn.com/cdn.webmail.aol.com/mailtour/aol/en-us/text.htm?ncid=aolcmp000503 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
