AW: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque
Hello Steve, these are natural horns with the D-crook. Some of the horns have a tuning slide built in. You can hear, that the big bunch of horns (3 parts, but multiplied) covers all the cracks & clams graciously with a "coat of mercy", as some soft trombone chords will do for the strings so often. The performance is quite nice, but lacks the "real bite". Nothing is "festive". One can fall to sleep easily. It is the conductor. Just watch him. Nothing broad & baroque large. But with good intentions. Still enjoyable. === -Ursprüngliche Nachricht- Von: horn-bounces+hans=pizka...@music.memphis.edu [mailto:horn-bounces+hans=pizka...@music.memphis.edu] Im Auftrag von Steve Freides Gesendet: Dienstag, 19. Mai 2009 04:46 An: The Horn List Betreff: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque Anyone care to enlighten and inform about these instruments? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXjY6w1KQMo Thanks. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka.de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque
On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 15:12, Kit Wolf wrote: > > The trumpets seemed to have holes to correct the intonation, which > probably isn't terribly 'period'. > > Kit > The horns in this clip have them as well. (except maybe the one in the middle which looks like it has a tuning slide) ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque
> Thank you, everyone. I did get that this is a period instrument > group, but I confess that this is the closest look I've ever had at a > period horn. Most of the "natural" horns I've seen look much closer > to modern horns than those in this video. There are some good websites with close-up photos of historic instruments - e.g. http://www.usd.edu/smm/Brass/Trumpets/NaturalTrumpets/Hainlein/3873/HainleinTrumpet3873.html http://www.music.ed.ac.uk/euchmi/ucj/ucjth06.html has a picture of a horn somewhat similar to those being used in the performance. The trumpets seemed to have holes to correct the intonation, which probably isn't terribly 'period'. Kit ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque
Steve Freides wrote: Thank you, everyone. I did get that this is a period instrument group, but I confess that this is the closest look I've ever had at a period horn. Most of the "natural" horns I've seen look much closer to modern horns than those in this video. Is that Raul Diaz in the middle of the horn section? He looks about the right age then if so - I remember doing a Handel Concerto for Double Orchestra (can't remember which one) with him on 1st and me on 3rd (and with Tony Halstead conducting) round about 1991 when that video was shot: he was an undergraduate at the Guildhall School of Music at the time and has since gone on to become a fantastic period instrument player. I however have not :-( Tim Costen ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque
In the Baroque years the horn was much more closer to its hunting horn roots than it later became. The hoops were much wider as they were the direct consequent to having them looped around yoiur shoulder as you rode your horse, leaving your hands free to control the animal. The trumpets look more like trombones because they are an octave lower than todays' "D" trumpets and they don't loop them more than once. For example, using Bb: today's regular Bb trumpet is 4.5 feet [or so] and thus a baroque trumpet in Bb would be 9 feet, the equivalent length of a modern Bb horn or Bb side of a double. I am not sure about the tuniing slide crook/issues involved in the horns. I noticed that they seemed to be using terminal crooks, which go between the mouthpiece and the leadpipe, and a couple seemed to have tuning slides or crooks in the center of the instruments, whither I know not. Paxmaha From: Steve Freides To: The Horn List horn@music.memphis.edu Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 8:38:19 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque Thank you, everyone. I did get that this is a period instrument group, but I confess that this is the closest look I've ever had at a period horn. Most of the "natural" horns I've seen look much closer to modern horns than those in this video. I know it is, at least in some circles, up for discussion as to exactly what instrument is to be used at times in Baroque scores, another reason I asked - very interesting about the doubling as well. This is not music with which I am familiar at all - thank you all again. -S- On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:02 AM, David A. Jewell wrote: > It appears to me that it is a "period instruments" group and that they are > going by some of the contemporary accounts of how many of each instrument > were actually involved in the original performance. It was performed outside > so Handel wanted more winds to make the sound bigger. There are only 3 > trumpet parts, and only two horn parts if I recall correctly. All of the > extra winds are doubling, a really not uncommon practice for such a work. > Paxmaha > > > > > > From: LOTP > To: The Horn List > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:51:44 AM > Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque > > Steve, > A cursory glance at the score seems to indicate Horns in "D" , 3 parts, 3 to > a part. > > Paul Truszkowski > > > ----- Original Message - From: "Steve Freides" > To: "The Horn List" > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 10:45 PM > Subject: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque > > >> Anyone care to enlighten and inform about these instruments? >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXjY6w1KQMo >> >> Thanks. >> >> -S- >> ___ >> post: horn@music.memphis.edu >> unsubscribe or set options at >> http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/lotp%40comcast.net > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/paxmaha%40yahoo.com > > > > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve.freides%40gmail.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/paxmaha%40yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque
The original amount of instruments was, if I recall correctly (I don't have access to something te verify it here): 24 oboes 12 bassoons (could be 16 as in this performance) contrabassoon 9 trumpets (3 players per part) 9 horns (3 players per part, in fact these parts are very similar to the trumpet parts) 3 timpanists side drums ìt is indeed a period instrument group, probably assebled especially for the occasion. (I remember seeing the original broadcast on the BBC a dozen or so years ago. It was a proms concert if I'm not mistaken) On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 14:02, David A. Jewell wrote: > It appears to me that it is a "period instruments" group and that they are > going by some of the contemporary accounts of how many of each instrument > were actually involved in the original performance. It was performed outside > so Handel wanted more winds to make the sound bigger. There are only 3 > trumpet parts, and only two horn parts if I recall correctly. All of the > extra winds are doubling, a really not uncommon practice for such a work. > Paxmaha > > > > > > From: LOTP > To: The Horn List > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:51:44 AM > Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque > > Steve, > A cursory glance at the score seems to indicate Horns in "D" , 3 parts, 3 to > a part. > > Paul Truszkowski > > > - Original Message - From: "Steve Freides" > To: "The Horn List" > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 10:45 PM > Subject: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque > > >> Anyone care to enlighten and inform about these instruments? >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXjY6w1KQMo >> >> Thanks. >> >> -S- >> ___ >> post: horn@music.memphis.edu >> unsubscribe or set options at >> http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/lotp%40comcast.net > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/paxmaha%40yahoo.com > > > > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/corbasse%40gmail.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque
Thank you, everyone. I did get that this is a period instrument group, but I confess that this is the closest look I've ever had at a period horn. Most of the "natural" horns I've seen look much closer to modern horns than those in this video. I know it is, at least in some circles, up for discussion as to exactly what instrument is to be used at times in Baroque scores, another reason I asked - very interesting about the doubling as well. This is not music with which I am familiar at all - thank you all again. -S- On Tue, May 19, 2009 at 8:02 AM, David A. Jewell wrote: > It appears to me that it is a "period instruments" group and that they are > going by some of the contemporary accounts of how many of each instrument > were actually involved in the original performance. It was performed outside > so Handel wanted more winds to make the sound bigger. There are only 3 > trumpet parts, and only two horn parts if I recall correctly. All of the > extra winds are doubling, a really not uncommon practice for such a work. > Paxmaha > > > > > > From: LOTP > To: The Horn List > Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:51:44 AM > Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque > > Steve, > A cursory glance at the score seems to indicate Horns in "D" , 3 parts, 3 to > a part. > > Paul Truszkowski > > > - Original Message ----- From: "Steve Freides" > To: "The Horn List" > Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 10:45 PM > Subject: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque > > >> Anyone care to enlighten and inform about these instruments? >> >> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXjY6w1KQMo >> >> Thanks. >> >> -S- >> ___ >> post: horn@music.memphis.edu >> unsubscribe or set options at >> http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/lotp%40comcast.net > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/paxmaha%40yahoo.com > > > > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve.freides%40gmail.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque
It appears to me that it is a "period instruments" group and that they are going by some of the contemporary accounts of how many of each instrument were actually involved in the original performance. It was performed outside so Handel wanted more winds to make the sound bigger. There are only 3 trumpet parts, and only two horn parts if I recall correctly. All of the extra winds are doubling, a really not uncommon practice for such a work. Paxmaha From: LOTP To: The Horn List Sent: Tuesday, May 19, 2009 7:51:44 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque Steve, A cursory glance at the score seems to indicate Horns in "D" , 3 parts, 3 to a part. Paul Truszkowski - Original Message - From: "Steve Freides" To: "The Horn List" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 10:45 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque > Anyone care to enlighten and inform about these instruments? > > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXjY6w1KQMo > > Thanks. > > -S- > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/lotp%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/paxmaha%40yahoo.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque
Steve, A cursory glance at the score seems to indicate Horns in "D" , 3 parts, 3 to a part. Paul Truszkowski - Original Message - From: "Steve Freides" To: "The Horn List" Sent: Monday, May 18, 2009 10:45 PM Subject: [Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque Anyone care to enlighten and inform about these instruments? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXjY6w1KQMo Thanks. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/lotp%40comcast.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] Horns and Trumpets in the Baroque
Anyone care to enlighten and inform about these instruments? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXjY6w1KQMo Thanks. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
