[Hornlist] MR. Becker Geryer/Kruspe
Subject: Re: Kruspe and Geyer Wraps To answer your question concerning the physical differences, you need to first look at the bell shape, and size. The Kruspe bell is quite large in the stem, throat, and flair. This makes for a very broad sound, and wide pitch center. To offset the woofiness of large bells, nickel silver is often used. Nickel silver produces a more complex series of overtones (tends to be brighter sounding). On the other hand, Geyer style horns have a narrower medium sized bell that has more focus, and clarity than wider model bells. These are most commonly found in yellow brass. You will find that regional tastes will often dictate which style of horn used in symphony orchestras. Boston, and Chicago are known for prefer the playing characteristics of Geyer type horns. In New York, L.A., and Texas, the larger bell Kruspe style horns find favor. You will also find Kruspe style horns widely used in wind bands. Often the broadness of large bells is not as well suited for chamber settings. This is where you will often see Geyer style models used, due to the ability to play with a lighter, more focused sound. I hope this has been helpful to you in understanding differences between Geyer, and Kruspe style horns. Jim Becker, Senior Technician Osmun Music Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim, A question I have put out to some very smart people and have never gotten an answer. If you started 2 identical bells, 2 identical leadpipes, a mass of pipe of the same bore, and built a Geyer wrap and a Kruspe wrap what would be the difference in playing characteristics between them? Leonard Brown ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] MR. Becker Geryer/Kruspe
I'm a very smart person who knows very little about horns, so I'll give you an answer :-) If you performed the experiment, the two horns would be different, but an Analysis Of Variance would show that the difference between the horns would be same as the difference between two horns of the same wrap, with a confidence of 90%. Also, the difference would be much smaller than the difference between two players. Of course the sample size would have to be a half-dozen or so of each wrap. There are some objective non-playing differences. Because of the location of the change valve, Knopf-Geyer horns have a longer tuning slide. This makes it possible to tune to a wider range of oboe players and temperatures. I find it awkward to use the thumb valve on many, but not all Knopf-Geyer horns. The motion is not down, but at an angle. But then I have little trouble with the Schmidt type piston valve. The Conn 9D is a medium throat version of the 8D. Anyone have any experience withe the 9D? Herb Foster --- Leonard Peggy Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Jim, A question I have put out to some very smart people and have never gotten an answer. If you started 2 identical bells, 2 identical leadpipes, a mass of pipe of the same bore, and built a Geyer wrap and a Kruspe wrap what would be the difference in playing characteristics between them? Leonard Brown ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/herb_foster%40yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] MR. Becker Geryer/Kruspe
Dear Leonard, I would imagine the difference would be minimal, since it is the mouthpipe, and bell have the greatest impact on playing characteristics. It is certainly possible that the openness of a Geyer wrap would contribute to less resistance than the tighter Kruspe wrap. One would have to put together such a pair of identical component horns to really know for sure. Jim Becker,Senior Technician Osmun Music, Inc. - Original Message - From: Leonard Peggy Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: hornlist [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Saturday, October 11, 2003 12:00 PM Subject: [Hornlist] MR. Becker Geryer/Kruspe Subject: Re: Kruspe and Geyer Wraps To answer your question concerning the physical differences, you need to first look at the bell shape, and size. The Kruspe bell is quite large in the stem, throat, and flair. This makes for a very broad sound, and wide pitch center. To offset the woofiness of large bells, nickel silver is often used. Nickel silver produces a more complex series of overtones (tends to be brighter sounding). On the other hand, Geyer style horns have a narrower medium sized bell that has more focus, and clarity than wider model bells. These are most commonly found in yellow brass. You will find that regional tastes will often dictate which style of horn used in symphony orchestras. Boston, and Chicago are known for prefer the playing characteristics of Geyer type horns. In New York, L.A., and Texas, the larger bell Kruspe style horns find favor. You will also find Kruspe style horns widely used in wind bands. Often the broadness of large bells is not as well suited for chamber settings. This is where you will often see Geyer style models used, due to the ability to play with a lighter, more focused sound. I hope this has been helpful to you in understanding differences between Geyer, and Kruspe style horns. Jim Becker, Senior Technician Osmun Music Inc. [EMAIL PROTECTED] Jim, A question I have put out to some very smart people and have never gotten an answer. If you started 2 identical bells, 2 identical leadpipes, a mass of pipe of the same bore, and built a Geyer wrap and a Kruspe wrap what would be the difference in playing characteristics between them? Leonard Brown ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/rosmun%40osmun.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] MR. Becker Geryer/Kruspe
I have played a Patterson 8D conversion that had been fitted with a 9D bell. I found it to be a better suited horn for my preference and taste. More compact in sound and response, without loss of the 8D character. It's worth looking into, if you're so inclined. - Original Message - From: Herbert Foster [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Leonard Peggy Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED]; The Horn List [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Monday, October 13, 2003 10:32 AM Subject: Re: [Hornlist] MR. Becker Geryer/Kruspe I'm a very smart person who knows very little about horns, so I'll give you an answer :-) If you performed the experiment, the two horns would be different, but an Analysis Of Variance would show that the difference between the horns would be same as the difference between two horns of the same wrap, with a confidence of 90%. Also, the difference would be much smaller than the difference between two players. Of course the sample size would have to be a half-dozen or so of each wrap. There are some objective non-playing differences. Because of the location of the change valve, Knopf-Geyer horns have a longer tuning slide. This makes it possible to tune to a wider range of oboe players and temperatures. I find it awkward to use the thumb valve on many, but not all Knopf-Geyer horns. The motion is not down, but at an angle. But then I have little trouble with the Schmidt type piston valve. The Conn 9D is a medium throat version of the 8D. Anyone have any experience withe the 9D? Herb Foster --- Leonard Peggy Brown [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ... Jim, A question I have put out to some very smart people and have never gotten an answer. If you started 2 identical bells, 2 identical leadpipes, a mass of pipe of the same bore, and built a Geyer wrap and a Kruspe wrap what would be the difference in playing characteristics between them? Leonard Brown ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/herb_foster%40yahoo.com __ Do you Yahoo!? The New Yahoo! Shopping - with improved product search http://shopping.yahoo.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/cairnman%40wisetec.com ___ post: [EMAIL PROTECTED] set your options at http://music.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
