RE: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
Emory Waters wrote: >The topic of the Haydn and Hummel concerti got me wondering about >the instrument they were written for, so a quick google on "Anton Weidinger" There is clearly still a lot of interest in the keyed trumpet. I find it rather surprising that of all of the Brass Press titles we sell, one of the two or three most requested is the Dahlqvist book "The Keyed Trumpet and Its Greatest Virtuoso, Anton Weidinger". David B. Thompson, President Thompson Edition, Inc. http://www.thompsonedition.com http://www.brasspress.com ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
The topic of the Haydn and Hummel concerti got me wondering about the instrument they were written for, so a quick google on "Anton Weidinger" brought up the following very interesting website: _http://abel.hive.no/trompet/articles/keyed_trumpet/_ (http://abel.hive.no/trompet/articles/keyed_trumpet/) Emory Waters ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
Sorry, Klaus, I have different measures according to Noedls book. Measures might be longer or shorter for a few centimeters according to main intonation, as e.g. Back builts them to a=440, while european instruments are a bit shorter & thus higher. Measures are given for a=440 Trumpet in C = 114 cms Trumpet in Eb = 198 cms Piston in Eb = 94 cms These fine long Eb trumpets were the core of the accompaniment instruments in the Austrian-Hungarian-Bohemian military bands. They sounded great. Unfortunately, they were replaced by the Altohorn in Eb with ist ugly tone. As far as I remember, Helmut Wobisch of the Vienna Phil played the Joseph Haydn concerto using the regular Eb-trumpet not the half length Piston in Eb. And reaching up for a high Db should not be any problem for an excellent soloist never. But the tone quality on the regular Eb is much better than the shorter one. BTW: Ostalgia is a nice verbalhorning of Ost-Nostalgia. -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Klaus Bjerre Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 2:00 PM To: The Horn List Subject: RE: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti Hans , you may know of my interest in brass instruments history, so I will write a few lines why you issue your statement as a logic extension of your and mine common Austrian-German-Danish still alive tradition of natural Eb trumpet, in the length of an alto horn, which in our modern pitch theoretically is just short of 220 cm. When I have seen German (that was West then) military displays (Zapfenstreiche), there always were a couple of Eb&Bb kettle drums standing at one end of the ground. The trumpet players aside from their valved Bb instruments carried Eb natural trumpets hanging across their backs in a spun 2 or 3 colours string. The last item before the exit march would always be the honour fanfares, where a drummer manned the kettles and the trumpet players shifted to the Eb natural trumpets. The chord progression would be very simple, but the woodwinds and the lower brasses would complement the fanfares in a beautiful way (if one accepts German military music, which I do). Only one matter made me red with rage as bad arranging: the trombones doubled the Eb fanfares in the lower octave. They should have acted as a 3 or 4 parts harmony support. I dont know how much the GDR Volksarmee used the Eb natural trumpets, but the Freie Deutsche Jugend (the communist youth) used them extensively. There is a current German term of Ostalgia, the longing for the GDR. In a German TV feature on the old hardcore communists a lady of my age suddenly started singing out the old parole songs. My ears got very big, as the tunes were odd. Suddenly I realised, that they were just Eb fanfares intended to be sung on parades marching behind a front row of trumpets and drums. (As an aside: from what I have seen on old propaganda movies the nazis used Bb bugles). In my country we have a Royal Hussar Regiment providing escort for the Royal Coaches. They always start out in fast trot to calm down the light horses (Danish Warmblood) with only 9 Eb trumpets playing 3 part fanfares. At a certain place on the route the speed is down to pace and the parade is fronted with a huge Frisian horse carrying the kettledrums in Eb and Bb. The Germans have taken the tradition a bit further by putting valves on their long Eb trumpets and forming fanfare bands. The bass line is played on narrow bore Eb helicons, which hardly are anything but circular valved contrabass trombones. Hans and I probably are the only list members owning such monsters. But even on this our shared background, Hans, you are wrong on the Eb trumpets for the Haydn concerto being long. They are a fourth above the Bb trumpet, circa 110 cm long. Weidinger http://courses.wcupa.edu/frichmon/mue332/spring2002/anthonyd ilella/ made a keyed trumpet, which worked like the woodwinds: full scale down to the pedal. As I remember it, the top note in the solo part is a Db. Easily accessible on a short Eb trumpet, very problematic on the long one for anybody not specialising in clarino playing. I have heard the 2nd movement of the Haydn concerto played on an original keyed period instrument (the modern strings had their parts written out in D). Marvellously played by the now retired Danish RSO solo trumpeter Ole Andersen. I also heard the last concert of Maurice André in Denmark in 1990, where he played the Haydn on his Schilke Eb trumpet. He played it almost like a flugelhorn, and the result was serene beauty of God-given dimensions. There is a horn related tinge to that performance: the solo horn had to do a Mozart symphony in A (on an Alexander G descant like mine) and Brahms 2. So the Haydn was given to the two young 3rd and 4th players on contract for the summer in the orchestra of the Tivoli Gardens. They p
RE: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
Hans , you may know of my interest in brass instruments history, so I will write a few lines why you issue your statement as a logic extension of your and mine common Austrian-German-Danish still alive tradition of natural Eb trumpet, in the length of an alto horn, which in our modern pitch theoretically is just short of 220 cm. When I have seen German (that was West then) military displays (Zapfenstreiche), there always were a couple of Eb&Bb kettle drums standing at one end of the ground. The trumpet players aside from their valved Bb instruments carried Eb natural trumpets hanging across their backs in a spun 2 or 3 colours string. The last item before the exit march would always be the honour fanfares, where a drummer manned the kettles and the trumpet players shifted to the Eb natural trumpets. The chord progression would be very simple, but the woodwinds and the lower brasses would complement the fanfares in a beautiful way (if one accepts German military music, which I do). Only one matter made me red with rage as bad arranging: the trombones doubled the Eb fanfares in the lower octave. They should have acted as a 3 or 4 parts harmony support. I dont know how much the GDR Volksarmee used the Eb natural trumpets, but the Freie Deutsche Jugend (the communist youth) used them extensively. There is a current German term of Ostalgia, the longing for the GDR. In a German TV feature on the old hardcore communists a lady of my age suddenly started singing out the old parole songs. My ears got very big, as the tunes were odd. Suddenly I realised, that they were just Eb fanfares intended to be sung on parades marching behind a front row of trumpets and drums. (As an aside: from what I have seen on old propaganda movies the nazis used Bb bugles). In my country we have a Royal Hussar Regiment providing escort for the Royal Coaches. They always start out in fast trot to calm down the light horses (Danish Warmblood) with only 9 Eb trumpets playing 3 part fanfares. At a certain place on the route the speed is down to pace and the parade is fronted with a huge Frisian horse carrying the kettledrums in Eb and Bb. The Germans have taken the tradition a bit further by putting valves on their long Eb trumpets and forming fanfare bands. The bass line is played on narrow bore Eb helicons, which hardly are anything but circular valved contrabass trombones. Hans and I probably are the only list members owning such monsters. But even on this our shared background, Hans, you are wrong on the Eb trumpets for the Haydn concerto being long. They are a fourth above the Bb trumpet, circa 110 cm long. Weidinger http://courses.wcupa.edu/frichmon/mue332/spring2002/anthonydilella/ made a keyed trumpet, which worked like the woodwinds: full scale down to the pedal. As I remember it, the top note in the solo part is a Db. Easily accessible on a short Eb trumpet, very problematic on the long one for anybody not specialising in clarino playing. I have heard the 2nd movement of the Haydn concerto played on an original keyed period instrument (the modern strings had their parts written out in D). Marvellously played by the now retired Danish RSO solo trumpeter Ole Andersen. I also heard the last concert of Maurice André in Denmark in 1990, where he played the Haydn on his Schilke Eb trumpet. He played it almost like a flugelhorn, and the result was serene beauty of God-given dimensions. There is a horn related tinge to that performance: the solo horn had to do a Mozart symphony in A (on an Alexander G descant like mine) and Brahms 2. So the Haydn was given to the two young 3rd and 4th players on contract for the summer in the orchestra of the Tivoli Gardens. They played on large bore Bb and double horns. They played the opening so extremely beautifully, that my heart was torn apart even before the first trumpet entry. I was thrown over, even if I prefer a much brighter F horn style. The 3rd horn, Allan Bentsen(?), became solo horn of our Royal Orchestra. The 4th horn, Annelise Martinsen(?), became the successor of our very own Paul Kampen at the Opera North in the UK. This has been long already, but some of you know, that I move in tuba circles also. There I have made a related text in a more humorous fashion, speedily written with spelling errors and everything: http://www.chisham.com/tips/bbs/jan2002/messages/80533.html I really love brasses, please be forgiving! Klaus Smedegaard Bjerre --- "Hans.Pizka" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Are these long or short Eb trumpets ? The long would be the > appropriate instrument. > > = > > -Original Message- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On > Behalf Of Jerry Houston > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:57 AM > To: The Horn List > Subject: Re: [Ho
Re: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
[EMAIL PROTECTED] schreef: Haydn only wrote one trumpet concerto Steve, fairly certain about that. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/mvdl%40evonet.be Actually, there are three Haydn concertos: the most famous one by Franz Joseph, and two by his younger brother Johann Michael Michael Haydn uses "old-fashioned" clarino writing, some of it quite stratospheric: the concerto in D goes to a written G 4 lines above the staff, and the concerto in C keeps the range to an F below that. Michiel van der Linden Bruges, Belgium ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
In a message dated 4/13/2006 7:08:58 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > I wonder if anyone makes an Eb trumpet ... Just about everyone. If you look around you can find pro level and student level Eb trumpets and cornets. -- The Eb trumpet is the standard for the Haydn concerto. Almost every pro line carries an Eb or an Eb/D trumpet. I sometimes get requests from trumpet teachers who want to rent an Eb trumpet for their students studying and performing the Haydn concerto. This is a hot topic among trumpeters, as they have to own another instrument in order to play this concerto. And they complain about it, too. Let's see: a trumpeter owns 4 trumpets, averaging $3,000 apiece. That's $12,000 worth of instruments. A horn player owns a double and a descant, each costing an average of around $6,000, say. That's $12,000 worth of instruments. So, what are these trumpeters complaining about? At least they don't have to buy a professional string bass. Dave Weiner Brass Arts Unlimited Maryland Band & Orchestra ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
On 13 Apr 2006, at 2:44 am, Steve Freides wrote: I wonder if anyone makes an Eb trumpet ... Just about everyone. If you look around you can find pro level and student level Eb trumpets and cornets. I have an Eb flugel horn. HTH Tom ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
Are these long or short Eb trumpets ? The long would be the appropriate instrument. = -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Houston Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2006 3:57 AM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti Alan Cole wrote: > Besson. Bach. Yamaha. -AC. > > I wonder if anyone makes an Eb trumpet ... Mine was a Benge if I remember right. I think Kanstul and Getzen also make/made them. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/hans%40pizka. de ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
Schilke, I am almost certain, made one for Herseth. Shel -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Jerry Houston Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 9:57 PM To: The Horn List Subject: Re: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti Alan Cole wrote: > Besson. Bach. Yamaha. -AC. > > I wonder if anyone makes an Eb trumpet ... Mine was a Benge if I remember right. I think Kanstul and Getzen also make/made them. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/skirshner%40ameritech.net ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
Alan Cole wrote: Besson. Bach. Yamaha. -AC. I wonder if anyone makes an Eb trumpet ... Mine was a Benge if I remember right. I think Kanstul and Getzen also make/made them. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
Besson. Bach. Yamaha. -AC. I wonder if anyone makes an Eb trumpet ... -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/309 - Release Date: 4/11/2006 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
RE: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
I have a performance of it on a keyed bugle/trumpet and the speed of that performance is absolutely astounding - I don't know who the performer is but could look it up - it's part of the music history text I use at the college for Music Appreciation. Only the first movement also. I imagine this is quite the bear to play on a modern trumpet. I wonder if anyone makes an Eb trumpet ... -S- > -Original Message- > From: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > du] On Behalf Of Alan Cole > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2006 4:00 PM > To: The Horn List > Subject: Re: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti > > Wrote it for key bugle, right? Not modern-day Bach Strad. > > -AC. > ~~~ > At 04:52 PM 4/12/2006, you wrote: > > Haydn only wrote one trumpet concerto Steve, fairly certain > about that. > > > > > -- > No virus found in this outgoing message. > Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. > Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/309 - Release > Date: 4/11/2006 > > > ___ > post: horn@music.memphis.edu > unsubscribe or set options at > http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/steve%40fridays > computer.com > ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
Re: [Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
Wrote it for key bugle, right? Not modern-day Bach Strad. -AC. ~~~ At 04:52 PM 4/12/2006, you wrote: Haydn only wrote one trumpet concerto Steve, fairly certain about that. -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Anti-Virus. Version: 7.1.385 / Virus Database: 268.4.1/309 - Release Date: 4/11/2006 ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
Haydn only wrote one trumpet concerto Steve, fairly certain about that. ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
[Hornlist] OT - Haydn trumpet concerti
My son, who plays both horn and trumpet, is preparing for some prep program auditions to take place in about a year, and one of the suggested pieces is Haydn trumpet concerti - I know nothing of this literature. Is there more than one of these? Knowing what I know of Haydn, I imagine there must be at least a few. Any edition along the lines of the Mozart horn concerti, where you get them all, along w/ piano reductions, in a single purchase? Thanks in advance, and sorry for the off-topic posting. -S- ___ post: horn@music.memphis.edu unsubscribe or set options at http://music2.memphis.edu/mailman/options/horn/archive%40jab.org
